CLASSIC FANTASY - A Return to the Dawn of Roleplaying

[Venruke]

First off, this book looks great. I have not gotten a chance to read it yet, but I have my copy that we used last night to play. (Friend of mine GMed.) We did character creation, though, so I did get a chance to read portions of the book as I went along.

It looks to me like CF fills a huge void by providing the necessary elements of fantasy genre gaming. The classes & spell list are especially appreciated. Another highly valued item is the equipment list WITH PRICES. :thumb:

I do have 2 questions, however. I looked around but didn't see this mentioned already...when we finished our characters we could not find the equipment list for missile weapons (and their prices), nor could we find helmets. :confused: As I said, I have not read the book thoroughly yet, so please pardon if the answer is blatantly obvious. THANKS!

[threedeesix]

I do have 2 questions, however. I looked around but didn't see this mentioned already...when we finished our characters we could not find the equipment list for missile weapons (and their prices), nor could we find helmets. :confused: As I said, I have not read the book thoroughly yet, so please pardon if the answer is blatantly obvious. THANKS!

Thanks Venruke,

Wow, I knew about helmets and thats my fault, as I completely forgot to include them. I did a new table earlier today and planed to put it with the errata, but the missile weapon tables, thats unfortunate as the table was sent to Chaosium with the manuscript. I am going to upload them right now.

Rod

Edited November 7, 2009 by threedeesix

[tedopon]

Except for the massive formatting errors that are typical of all monographs, I love this book.

The missle weapon omission I can live with. The fact it took fifteen minutes to see the Illusionist spell list even though it was right there on the page I kept turning to is my fault.

The only gripe I have is that once they were done "formatting" it, they didn't bother to put in a table of contents or index. If no one beats me to it, I'll be uploading a table of contents next week.

Two of my players "converted" their 1e characters last night, and were both very excited about the fact we were using "Runequest dumbed down to D&D" (actual quote). This is the system I've waited years for because I was too lazy to do it myself, and I can't wait to start playing. Thanks Rodney.

[threedeesix]

Except for the massive formatting errors that are typical of all monographs, I love this book.

The missle weapon omission I can live with. The fact it took fifteen minutes to see the Illusionist spell list even though it was right there on the page I kept turning to is my fault.

Thanks again tedopon, yeah I almost had an aneurysm when I found out about the missile weapon table, but with the exception of the prices, it's the same information as in the core book anyway.

The only gripe I have is that once they were done "formatting" it, they didn't bother to put in a table of contents or index. If no one beats me to it, I'll be uploading a table of contents next week.

Let me know if you do upload an index and i'll post a link to it in the errata section.

Two of my players "converted" their 1e characters last night, and were both very excited about the fact we were using "Runequest dumbed down to D&D" (actual quote). This is the system I've waited years for because I was too lazy to do it myself, and I can't wait to start playing.

Thats the reason I did Classic Fantasy in the first place. I don't know how many conversions I did from D&D to RQ in the last 20 years. I can honestly say that due to the amount of playtesting it received right up to (and after) it's release, it is not the same conversion it began as, even one short year ago.

If your group has a Fighter, you have to change his Weapon Proficiency to that of the Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin. The Fighter still retains the original rule before it was changed. I have updated the errata section appropriately.

PM me with any questions and if there is a special monster you want to include in your adventure, I may upload it for group consumption if I have it finished.

Rod

Edited November 7, 2009 by threedeesix

[Venruke]

Thanks for the update on the missile weapons, threedeesix. We did just use the BRP book for the info the other night. What was more important to us than the weapon stats was the prices. Our group likes a good price list as opposed to the BRP method.

[tedopon]

PM me with any questions and if there is a special monster you want to include in your adventure, I may upload it for group consumption if I have it finished.

Rod

HA! The funny thing is that I've spent the last fifteen years converting Runequest, Stormbringer and CoC

monsters over to D&D to fill my campaign world, so that part is going to be so much easier on me.

I'll try to remember to alter the Ftr/Ill appropriately when we officially make the conversion, I hadn't looked at the errata prior to jumping into character conversion.

The main problem we had was the other guy's character is an Ass/Cl and we had to play with the Thief a little to make him fit the Assassin class better. It basically came down to giving him one weapon starting at 25% bonus, and the Poison skill starting at 25% as well. After that we jimmied some of his points around to make him more distinct from the Thief (deemphasized environmental Thief skills and upped infiltration/subterfuge ones).

Speaking of, I have a _really_ huge poison chart that uses real world and D&D biotoxins and elemental poisons I made for the Assassin that I'm going to convert to BRP and upload once school is over in about a month.

One other thing. I have two multi classed and two single classed characters. This wouldn't really be an issue if there wasn't such a level discrepancy between characters. I wanted to keep them as close as possible to their current relative powers. Luckily, both guys last night were the multiclassers, and they're both exactly the same level so it wasn't a problem.

The other two characters are problematic. I guess a breakdown of power level would help here:

Fighter/Illusionist 6/6

Assassin/Cleric 6/6

Wizard 9

Fighter 4 almost 5

I gave the first two 320 where they would RAW get 240.

The Wizard I'm planning on giving around 350, maybe a little more.

The other Fighter maybe I'll keep around 250.

Thing is, I'm not sure if these numbers are going to work until I see the Wizard on paper. I probably won't have time to do it until the player does it himself, so I'm curious what you think of these numbers. It was put to a vote and 3 of the 4 players wanted to "convert" as close as possible rather than start fresh. (Guess who the dissenting opinion was?)

In the D&D game, the Wizard is horrifyingly powerful compared to the other two casters spellwise and the two last night expressed their concern that he's going to get shafted playing with skill points rather than charted progression. I think they're wrong, but we'll see.

The only reason I'm bringing up such a mechanics heavy question this early in the game is I'm sure you've probably seen characters at this power level and I want to pick your brain on what I should be doing to get a semi accurate transition from one system to the other.

And before you express any concern over high power levels in a "new" game, these guys thrive on near death experiences, crazy ass masochists.

[Blackwolf79]

I think if your 2 wizards are used to being overpowered, then if they come out balanced against the other classes, they're still going to feel "shafted". It's unfortunate for them but they aren't going to be dropping hideously powerful spells left and right anymore. But in our group, our Wizard has simply started playing more strategically and only uses his spells where they'll be most effective.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Blackwolf79

[tedopon]

He already plays that way anyway. He only uses a handful of spells daily, but they always bring the pain. Part of what makes him so deadly is he's one of a handful of characters I've seen over the years that qualified for 1e psionics. He can Dimension Door, Detect Magic and Heal with psionics on top of his spell alottment. I already have a solution for that one, he'll just have two POW pools to draw from, one that replenishes _slowly_.

I think it comes down to his spell selection at the beginning. The problem is he usually picks off the wall choices (he's not a fireball/magic missile guy) and exploits them well. Last big combat we got in he Hasted everyone then dropped a Hallucinatory Terrain on top of them. It was BRUTAL the carnage that ensued. Keep in mind, he never uses either of those spells. And that's where the rub is: he does something different every combat, and that's exactly why he's so dangerous. Whatever, not a big deal, I'm sure he'll just pick a ton of different spells at low skill level and be happy. I should have been clearer in my first post about his play style and why it will take a hit.

[Blackwolf79]

Yeah if he already plays that way then he should be able to be a pretty deadly wizard in CF.

[The Pugilist]

How easy is it to port some or all of the spells over to a non-hack&slash setting? Thanks.

[kaddawang]

If your using BRP in your non-hackn'slash-setting, porting is problemfree. Actually, you don't have to port anything at all, you can just lift them as they stand.

However..fireballs, phantasmal killers, magic missiles, flying etc aren't necessarily the kind of spells you're looking for in such a setting. The magic in Classic fantasy is very well put together though, and is definitely a resource for the BRP-line.

Remember, everything in this mono is used to kill things and take their stuff:D

(Well, I guess you can do other stuff as well. But primarily killing and looting)

[ghelmberger]

I just picked up the PDF, and I have to say it was well worth the money even though I don't intend to run this style of game. The spell section alone is worth the money!

This was a job very well done and I applaud you. It was obviously a labor of love, and that shows. I look forward to picking up future installments in the line.

[Verderer]

My copy of CF arrived just in time for the weekend, so I have some quality material to read!:thumb:

I am planning to add one special character class for my campaign purposes. As I might have mentioned, I am using Freeport, so a Pirate/Buccaneer type of class might be useful instead of using the obvious fighter/thief solution. This would be an exception to the CF type of play style, but pirates are such a central theme to Freeport, I feel they would warrant a class of their own.

Making up classes seems pretty easy, as in BRP in general, but I need to think about what sort of special abilities to add. Do you have any suggestions, rules of thumb or general guidelines for making up special abilites?

[threedeesix]

I am planning to add one special character class for my campaign purposes. As I might have mentioned, I am using Freeport, so a Pirate/Buccaneer type of class might be useful instead of using the obvious fighter/thief solution. This would be an exception to the CF type of play style, but pirates are such a central theme to Freeport, I feel they would warrant a class of their own.

No, this is not an exception to the CF style of play and while I never come out and tell you too in the book, there is always room for new character classes. Look at all the early issues of Dragon Magazine, there were some fantastic new classes introduced within it's pages and while most were NPC, all could be player classes if the GM allowed and it fit the theme of his campaign. A Freeport campaign would need a pirate class, NPC or otherwise.

Making up classes seems pretty easy, as in BRP in general, but I need to think about what sort of special abilities to add. Do you have any suggestions, rules of thumb or general guidelines for making up special abilites?

The first thing you will want to do is get on the Internet and google AD&D Pirate Class. See if there is an official one out there. If you cant find a 1st or 2nd edition one, use a 3.0/3.5 but as a last resort, and if Freeport has one, then use it (again, not being able to find a 1st or 2nd ed one).

Once you have an official template to work from, look how the CF classes were designed, compare them to their 1st ed counterparts, and do the same thing with your pirate. I would suggest taking the CF Thief and modifying from there. However, don't just add abilities onto the thief, you have to remove some as well. Each must do something better than the others. If your pirate is just a better thief, why play a thief.

Just off the top of my head, remove the thieves Back Stab and Subterfuge Proficiency. But keep Quick Reflexes to compansate for the pirates lack of armor. I would give them the fighters Weapon Proficiency as they would tend to see more direct combat than a typical thief. Finally, add Mariner Proficiency as follows...

Mariner Proficiency: Pirates spend most of their lives on the open ocean, climbing the rigging of their galleons and other sailing ships, and visiting small ports throughout The Realm. Because of this they receive a +10% bonus to the following skills; Folklore, Wilderness Lore, Navigate, Repair (Wood), Spot, Climb, Jump, Swim, and Throw. These skills may all exceed the starting skill maximum. In addition, the noted skills improve at a rate of 1D8 points per skill increase instead of the normal 1D6.

Make sure all of the skills noted above are added to the class skill list as well.

Finally, upload the finished product to the forum so others, like myself, can enjoy.

Rod

PS - If you add Prestige Classes and/or Feats to my game, I will have to hunt you down and take away your book. Better yet, just don't tell me. >:->

Edited November 14, 2009 by threedeesix

[Verderer]

Thanks for the great advice, 3d6! I guess my google-fu is weak, but I couldn't finad any AD&D versions of a pirate class in the Interweb. However, I do have several d20 products, the aforesaid FP stuff and Skull and Bones pirate sourcebook. So I will use those for now.

So these books have several different types of piratey classes: swashbucklers, pirates, buccaneers, corsairs, sea dogs... they're all more or less the same, only with different emphasis. And a collection of different/same feats.

I won't be adding feats or anything like that, but I guess I can use them as pointers towards the sorts of abilities I want to include... as you said fighting skills seem to be very much on the fore, just as are acrobatics and agility. Then you have the sailing/piloting skills. These seem very much in line with your suggestions.

Then there are various marginal feats, which might be used to bring some colour to the pirate class: animal companion, superstition, and fearsome reputation all seem to fit in the picture, but I am not sure if they deserve to be promoted as abilities? Another possible ability which wasn't as much covered is leadership. Pirates can be an unruly bunch to handle, especially if things are not going well? I haven't read CF through yet, so I am not sure if all classes get followers at some point?

[threedeesix]

Here is a quick attempt at a Pirate Character Class for Classic Fantasy. You can pretty much use him as is or as a jump off point to further build from. To me he seems to be at about the same level as my other classes. I didn't give him really anything in the way of special abilities that wasn't skill related as I didn't think he needed them. For animal companion for example, just choose Knowledge (Animal Training) and talk your game master into allowing you to start with something. I may have missed something obvious as I kind of cranked him out, if so, please let me know.

Pirate

Characteristic Minimum: STR 12, CON 12, DEX 13

Alignment: You may choose to be of any alignment and there is no penalty for not adhering to it once play begins. Choose any alignment and add 5 points.

Restrictions:

Armor: Pirates typically do not wear armor as it tends to lessen the survival rate of those that fall overboard, it also negates the bonus provided by the Quick Reflexes special ability if he or she is encumbered at a level greater than Unloaded (STR x .5 ENC).

Superstitious: Pirates are a very superstitious bunch and each player is encouraged to work with the gamemaster to choose one to plague the character. Whenever the subject of the superstition is present in any situation, the fumble chance of any skill roll is doubled. This is as much to do as much to the characters extreme belief in the superstition as it it is to any actual supernatural effect. For example, Rat Beard the pirate's superstition is the very common and justified belief that a red morning sky brings ill tidings. However Rat Beard has taken it one step further and believes it means bad luck for the rest of the day as well. Because he believes it so strongly, it effects all of his skill rolls. If Rat Beard has a normal chance to Fumble a Climb roll of 98-00 for instance, during any day that began with a red sky, he will Fumble Climb rolls on a roll of 95-00.

Special Abilities:

Quick Reflexes: Pirates, when encumbered at a level no greater than Unloaded (STR x .5 ENC), receive a +10% bonus to Dodge skill as well as two extra Defense rolls before suffering the multiple Defense roll penalty. In addition Dodge skill improves at a rate of 1D8 points per skill increase instead of the normal 1D6.

Weapon Proficiency: Pirates are naturals with every class of weapon and attack, possessing an intuitive understanding of their use. They gain a +10% bonus to all attacks, natural or otherwise, and these skills may all exceed the starting skill maximum. In addition, the noted skills improve at a rate of 1D8 points per skill increase instead of the normal 1D6.

Mariner Proficiency: Pirates spend most of their lives on the open ocean, climbing the rigging of their galleons and other sailing ships, and visiting small ports throughout The Realm. Because of this they receive a +10% bonus to the following skills; Knowledge (Folklore), Navigate, Pilot (any sea vessel), Repair (Wood), Spot, Climb, Jump, Swim, and Throw. These skills may all exceed the starting skill maximum. In addition, the noted skills improve at a rate of 1D8 points per skill increase instead of the normal 1D6.

Class Skills: Climb, Dodge, Fast Talk, Hide, Navigate, Stealth, Spot, and three other skills from the following list as appropriate to concept: Appraise, Artillery, Bargain, Brawl, Climb, Command, Disguise, Etiquette (Pirates’ Guild), Grapple, Insight, Jump, Knowledge (any), Language (any), Listen, Literacy (any), Melee Weapon (any one-handed), Missile Weapon (thrown dagger, sling, hand crossbow or short bow), Persuade, Pick Locks, Pick Pockets, Pilot (Ship or Launch), Repair (any, usually Wood), Swim, Spot, or Throw.

Literate: Pirates begin with the skill Literacy (Common) at INT x2% without having to spend any skill points.

Status: Pirates begin with a Status of 40 (Lower Middle Class), but may purchase up to Status 55 (Upper Class) with class skill points. If a pirate so chooses, this may be lowered to as much as a 15, to reflect being down on his or her luck, with the points being able to be used elsewhere.

Starting Wealth: 2D6 x10 gp

Edited November 15, 2009 by threedeesix

[Verderer]

Kewl beans, 3d6, that looks great! Thanks for your help and extra work! I know you must be busy with Vol II right now..:cool:

[threedeesix]

Kewl beans, 3d6, that looks great! Thanks for your help and extra work! I know you must be busy with Vol II right now..:cool:

Actually, they sent me an editable copy of volume 1, so I'm trying to go through it line by line adding things that were removed or never made it in when it went to press to early.

I'll let everyone know when it's back in their hands and hopefully have more information soon.

Rod

Edited November 15, 2009 by threedeesix

[cnd]

Hi,

New to the forum and have a question about CF. I'd like to pick it up but I was wondering if there are any monsters/critters detailed in the CF book? Also is there any plan to have a Monster Manual with the (A)D&D monsters or similar already converted?

Thanks,

- Jay

[threedeesix]

Hi,

New to the forum and have a question about CF. I'd like to pick it up but I was wondering if there are any monsters/critters detailed in the CF book? Also is there any plan to have a Monster Manual with the (A)D&D monsters or similar already converted?

Thanks,

- Jay

Hi Jay, the first volume of Classic Fantasy is pretty much a players book, character classes, loads of spells, new skills, and spot rules that pertain to players and dungeon crawling. The second volume, that I'm working on right now, will be mostly monsters (dragons of different colors, rust monsters, mind slayers, floating eye tyrants, etc. I don't know, are those in D&D?), treasure (magic and otherwise), and spot rules pertaining to game mastering dungeon crawls.

For the time being, there are plenty of monsters in the core Basic Role Playing rule book, and if you have any other old BRP games kicking around, they are all pretty compatible.

Thanks for your interest,

Rod

Edited November 15, 2009 by threedeesix

[cnd]

Excellent, that sounds like what I was hoping for. Looks like a copy of CF is definitely going to be on my next order. Thanks for the info, out of curiosity, anything planned after the supplement you're currently working on?

[threedeesix]

Excellent, that sounds like what I was hoping for. Looks like a copy of CF is definitely going to be on my next order. Thanks for the info, out of curiosity, anything planned after the supplement you're currently working on?

Lots of things floating around in my head. I may flesh out The Realm setting, definitely want to do some adventures, would love other people to jump in and do some adventures, want to take a break, want to do a book with more spells, want to do an "epic" level book, want to do...

You get the picture,

Rod

[wbcreighton]

Hi Rod

I've been reading through the book when I have spare and am getting through the spell section. As I read through it, i have been having these "that's cool" moments. It is neat to think of the different ways spells could be used and the effects they could produce in the gaming world ( especially using a spell like Permanancy). Of course when you design a whole new magic system from scratch ( even if it is modeled on what has come before ), it has also raised lots of questions about how different spells interact. I know that a GM would have the last say in how things work, but I would be interested in your take on things.

So is this the correct thread to post questions ?

BTW I think this is one of the best monographs for BRP so far, and I have liked most of them. It really makes me want to pull out a few of my pdfs of classic D&D adventures and give them a try, since we never did play them back in the day. We had already converted to RQ. I am thinking of the Hommlet, ToEE, Slavers, Giants, Demonweb pits adventure cycle (bought them before WotC quit selling pdfs).

I guess I'll have to make some 3D dungeon tiles and walls and get out the old minis and see if I can convince some of the board gamers to give it a try.

Cheers

Warren

[threedeesix]

Hi Rod

So is this the correct thread to post questions ?

Hi Warren, absolutely, ask away.

BTW I think this is one of the best monographs for BRP so far, and I have liked most of them. It really makes me want to pull out a few of my pdfs of classic D&D adventures and give them a try, since we never did play them back in the day. We had already converted to RQ. I am thinking of the Hommlet, ToEE, Slavers, Giants, Demonweb pits adventure cycle (bought them before WotC quit selling pdfs).

My home group, the characters mentioned all through the book in the examples, are going to be going through the Against the Giants series when we Begin gaming again after the holidays.

I guess I'll have to make some 3D dungeon tiles and walls and get out the old minis and see if I can convince some of the board gamers to give it a try.

Originally the first book had an entire chapter devoted to the use of miniatures, but it got pulled due to lack of space. I'm in the process of trying to decide what to do with it now.

Cheers

Warren

[tedopon]

I've got about half the Content Table done (I've been doing it on my phone in my scant free time, so it's taking longer than expected), should have it up early next week after I get back from an impending roadtrip.

First two play sessions went great, and players seem to be pretty happy with the system. We've converted a few spells over from 1e, 2e and HM and made race conversions for my campaign world. I'll probably post that stuff as well.

The first session they weren't too keen on hit locations. The second session, one of the Fighters lopped off a thug's arm with one stroke, causing his four friends to drop their weapons immediately. Now I'm pretty sure they'll love hit locations until I score a crit on one of their limbs, then we'll see what happens.