Classic Runequest II Chaosium could it be reprinted with a different name?

[skull]

I am wondering if Classic Runequest II chaosium version RPG could be reprinted with a different name? obviously all references to glorantha would have to be taken out! Of all the Runequest rpg's i think chaosiums RQ2 was the best!

Could it be done? i know a lot of people still use chaosiums classic Runequest 2 RPG. i have PDF's of most of the books. and paper books as well.

The New BRP book is great and all ,but i still find my self drawn to Chaosiums Runequest II, maybe i am crazy! lol

What do you think! could it be done?

[wbcreighton]

Check this link:

http://www.gringlespawnshop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=glyph&action=display&thread=108

It is a clone of RQ2 and is called Glyphmaster.

[Mugen]

Some D&D retro-clones are exact copies of the "Rules Cyclopedia" version of the game. They make references to the d20 SRD to avoid problems with WotC.

I guess the same can be done with the Mongoose RuneQuest 1 SRD.

[RosenMcStern]

I do not see any advantage in such an operation. 90% of the people who still love the book state that its advantage was that the system was integrated with the setting. Reprinting the book without Glorantha in it would mean taking away the best part of it.

Glyphmaster is a book specifically designed to let people who do not have the old RQ2 book play the reprints produced by Moon Design "out of the box". Without the Glorantha books, it is just a collection of outdated rules that have a much better incarnation in the Big Golden Book.

[GianniVacca]

Paolo I slightly disagree with you. The BGB is full of optional rules (some of which are mutually exclusive). RQ2, even w/o Glorantha, is a self-contained, easy-to-access set of rules. Actually RQ2 spawned the BRP booklet, which itself spawned the BGB, so we've come round circle

[RosenMcStern]

Yes, but it is a 30-year old "self-contained set of rules". Once you take away the "nostalgia" effect, and without Glorantha it would not be there, what is left is a bunch of rules that, for the most part, have a better version published elsewhere.

If the problem is that the BGB "scares" newbies, BRP Quickstart and OpenQuest are better options.

[GianniVacca]

I fully agree that BRP Quickstart is an excellent introductory version of the BRP. The problem is that 99.9% of gamers have never heard about it, whereas most gamers have heard of RQ2!

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Glyphmaster and OpenQuest are really two very different beasts. Glyphmaster is just what it says on the tin, e retro-clone of RQII. Other than it's stated purpose of allowing out-of-the-book play of the Gloranthan Classics, it's also a rules set with a flavour that is quite distinct from BRP (or even RQ3). I would hesitate to say that RQ2 rules have been unequivocally "improved" upon by later generations. RQ2 and RQ3 are, IMO, different approaches to the BRP experience which both have things going for them.

So, skull, I think the answer to your question is "yes". It is possible, and someone is working on it. But it's a hobby project, so don't expect it this side of Chinese New Year!

[wbcreighton]

what is left is a bunch of rules that, for the most part, have a better version published elsewhere.

Do you have some examples ?

[RosenMcStern]

Inability to have skill percentiles that are not multiples of five, "generic" spirits, NO SKILL-BASED MAGIC. I could go on, but dissecting the "great old classic" in search of bugs benefits no one. Seriously, you may have loved that book, but most of its contents have seen a definite improvement over the years. Chaosium had freedom to use the RQ2 version of the rules in making the BGB, but they chose the RQ3 or SB5 version of almost everything. Does this tell you nothing?

Gianni, how do you define "most gamers"? I doubt many gamers in the 15-30 age range know of RQ2. Thirty years have passed since its appearance. Its heritage is still alive, but as a ruleset, it's outdated.

[rust]

... whereas most gamers have heard of RQ2!

At least where I live this is not the case, RQ 2 is almost unknown here.

[GianniVacca]

Inability to have skill percentiles that are not multiples of five, "generic" spirits, NO SKILL-BASED MAGIC.

Er... actually I prefer skill percentiles that are multiples of 5, and I prefer the RQ2 battle magic system. Spirits were expanded upon in supplements. Cults of Prax is _vastly_ superior to _anything_ Gloranthan written in later editions.

I could go on, but dissecting the "great old classic" in search of bugs benefits no one. Seriously, you may have loved that book, but most of its contents have seen a definite improvement over the years. Chaosium had freedom to use the RQ2 version of the rules in making the BGB, but they chose the RQ3 or SB5 version of almost everything. Does this tell you nothing?

Gianni, how do you define "most gamers"? I doubt many gamers in the 15-30 age range know of RQ2. Thirty years have passed since its appearance. Its heritage is still alive, but as a ruleset, it's outdated.

Well, it's still *my* favourite set of rules.

At least where I live this is not the case, RQ 2 is almost unknown here.

Right... And everybody knows about the BRP Quickstart rules

[wbcreighton]

Gianni, how do you define "most gamers"? I doubt many gamers in the 15-30 age range know of RQ2. Thirty years have passed since its appearance.

Of the 15-30 age range which game do you think more of them would recognize Runequest or Basic Roleplaying ?

[skull]

Thanks i will check it out

Check this link:

http://www.gringlespawnshop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=glyph&action=display&thread=108

It is a clone of RQ2 and is called Glyphmaster.

[skull]

Well i would still play it in Glorantha , but realistically one can't produce the book with Gloranthan references unless Issaries INC. allows it! i believe it is Issaries INc. correct me if i am wrong on who owns glorantha! although i love Glorantha i think it works well with any setting, i have used the chasium Runequest2 rules for just about every era and genre.

Anyways thanks Everyone!

I do not see any advantage in such an operation. 90% of the people who still love the book state that its advantage was that the system was integrated with the setting. Reprinting the book without Glorantha in it would mean taking away the best part of it.

Glyphmaster is a book specifically designed to let people who do not have the old RQ2 book play the reprints produced by Moon Design "out of the box". Without the Glorantha books, it is just a collection of outdated rules that have a much better incarnation in the Big Golden Book.

[frogspawner]

http://www.gringlespawnshop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=glyph&action=display&thread=108

It is a clone of RQ2 and is called Glyphmaster.

It's certainly a worthwhile project. But who is actually working on it? Does anyone know this "Uncruliar" guy, and what progress he's making?

[RosenMcStern]

Of the 15-30 age range which game do you think more of them would recognize Runequest or Basic Roleplaying ?

RuneQuest. But they recognize it because of Mongoose Edition, not Chaosium. Guys, the RuneQuest brand is still alive because the new edition is in the shops, not because the old glorious one is sometimes on e-bay. Get over it.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

It's certainly a worthwhile project. But who is actually working on it? Does anyone know this "Uncruliar" guy, and what progress he's making?

He tells me he's done a substantial portion of the character generation and game system. I've finished the monsters and I'll get back to other chapters after some exams. Although we can't use any Gloranthan references, we have found that there are not actually that many in the book itself, outside the history and cults portions (both of which are expanded upon in the supplements, in any case). The MRQ1 SRD includes a surprising number of Gloranthan concepts. Glyphmaster will definitely retain the flavour of RQ2.

I don't want to get into a big argument about RQ2 vs. RQ3, I am not a fan of version wars (I am also partial to Traveller). I agree entirely that RQ3 made some improvements to RQ2, but I don't think everything that changed was for the better. I vastly prefer CHA to APP, the 5% steps made for much faster play and character generation (without losing the granularity of criticals, specials or fumbles). RQ3 sorcery didn't really work until it was fixed in a lot of different houserules, and I still don't like to use it in Glorantha (actually, I think Magicworld has the best skill-based magic system). Spirits were somewhat more generic, but I find that more palatable than trying to stereotype them because it gives me more freedom to do what I like with them. RQ3 horses were overpowered. Previous experience was definitely a little basic compared to RQ3, but I didn't like the RQ3 system eitheruntil the Glorantha books came out. One day I'm going to write a Traveller-style career-path system for RQ. Fatigue was pretty horrible. The training system was too generic and did away with the concept of some skills being more difficult than others. Alchemy was lost. I prefer RQ3 weapons-with-AP rather than RQ2 weapons-with-HP.

I could go on all day, and many others have, I'm sure. Actually, there are some threads in the Pawnshop discussing (good-naturedly) the pros and cons of both systems. I won't deny that the impetus behind writing Glyphmaster, for me, stems partly from nostalgia for my first RPG system that I actually liked. But I don't think it can in any way be described as outdated. I don't see a clear path of advancement in the development of roleplaying technology, just different ways of doing things that different players prefer. In my houserules, I use mainly a mix of RQ2 and RQ3, some WoW, a touch of Traveller/Striker, and a sneaky sprinkling of d20 (keep it under your hat, eh?).

And, while MRQ2 is in the shops, so are the Gloranthan Classics (well, in the e-shops, anyway). It can't be denied that they are fantastic roleplaying books by any standard, judging from the fact that I've never heard anything but positive reviews of them. So I see no need to get over them, no matter how old they are. I like a bit of Rammstein, but that doesn't mean Beethoven is old hat.

skull, you won't find Glyphmaster itself in the Pawnshop (because it's still a half-written manuscript), but you could offer to help out with the odd chapter or two if you'd like to see it sooner!

Thank the Beetle, Post Quick Reply!

Edited November 18, 2010 by Vile

[Guest Vile Traveller]

By the way, I'd better reiterate that Glyphmaster will be a free PDF. No-one's trying to make a quick buck or undermine the BGB or anything nefarious like that. The only effect it will have on BRP is to increase interest in it.

[RosenMcStern]

And, while MRQ2 is in the shops, so are the Gloranthan Classics (well, in the e-shops, anyway).

"In the shops" and "on DriveThru" is not the same, Vile. You should know that. PDF books make up only 10-20% of RPG sales nowadays. They are no longer "mainstream", despite the fact that books like Cults of Prax or Griffin Mountains were true milestones of RPGs. The future of RuneQuest is not in reprints.

Again, there is nothing wrong in making a retro-clone of RQ2 in order to make the Gloranthan Classics playable "as they are".

But if the idea is using a "nostalgia" retro-clone as an introduction for new players, you will always find me strongly in the opposite camp. It is exactly the kind of operation that helps people who say that d100 is an outdated system spread their lies. And believe me, this is not a trivial problem. I say this having some knowledge about the sales of the Italian version of RuneQuest (BTW, Gianni, Luca was very glad to learn that you received the books).

Edited November 18, 2010 by RosenMcStern

[deleriad]

I must admit that any sort of RQ2 clone seems at best a perfectly reasonable vanity project. Gamers have been working on vanity projects since the year dot and clones seem to have become a new type of fantasy heartbreaker. Personally I find it backward looking and I can't imagine any significant interest in RQ2 with the name filed off beyond the small core of people who currently play RQ2. I certainly don't see any market for supplements and if people want to play RQ2 supplements with the RQ2 rule set then it's still not exactly hard to get RQ2 off ebay. In between MRQ, OpenQuest, BRP and Classic Fantasy it's hard to think of what RQ2clone offers. The difference between the different editions of RQ is minimal compared to OD&D and D&D4e.

[GianniVacca]

I see everything as moving on two parallel paths:

1. New system with lavishly coloured book for new/young players
   
2. Pavis/Griffin Mtn PDFs and Glyphmaster to revive the interest of grognards and gamers involved in the old skool renaissance
   

[wbcreighton]

RuneQuest. But they recognize it because of Mongoose Edition, not Chaosium. Guys, the RuneQuest brand is still alive because the new edition is in the shops, not because the old glorious one is sometimes on e-bay. Get over it.

Of course the MRQ version is the reason that people of that age group recognize it. I would have thought this is obvious.

What exactly are we supposed to GET OVER ? Sounds kind of condescending to me.

[frogspawner]

He tells me he's done a substantial portion of the character generation and game system. I've finished the monsters and I'll get back to other chapters...

I'll volunteer to do some too - but it'll have to wait until after a couple of my other 'vanity' projects... (a fantasy PBeM and my own d100 rules set, in a way based on RQ2, incidentally).

I don't want to get into a big argument about RQ2 vs. RQ3...

No need - that's not the issue. The point is RQ2 is a significant part of RPG design history. Future generations of RPGers should have the chance to know it - and preferably experience it - so they can best appreciate current systems. And hopefully go on to design even better ones.

By the way, I'd better reiterate that Glyphmaster will be a free PDF. No-one's trying to make a quick buck or undermine the BGB or anything nefarious like that.

Naturally. It's for the Greater Good!

[rust]

Right... And everybody knows about the BRP Quickstart rules

Yep, I made sure that is the case, through forum posts and links.

Edit.:

Just looked it up, my home forum's download section counts 110 views

for the BRP Quickstart rules, which is not bad for an English system on

a German forum ...

Edited November 18, 2010 by rust