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BRP Starships pdf - comments welcome


clarence

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I'm afraid the version of the rules that are available for download are a bit unclear about "longer journeys" and crews/passengers. In the version I'm working on now the 4 modules per person is referred to as staterooms/cubicles - the length of the journey was not really what I was after. Sorry about the confusion.

 

Here's my take on the shuttle, with 1 module per person. And I also made it a generic shuttle framework with 24 modules that can be converted for whatever is needed (up to 24 passengers, 24 cargo modules and so on). Let me know what you think.

 

Lambda Class Shuttle (Generic Framework)

 
Cockpit: 6
Open space: 24
Weapons: 5
Hyperspace: 1 (no module)
Engine (TR100): 5
Maneuver (TR100): 3
Shields: 10
Armor: 3
 
SPEED 11
HANDLING 7
SIZE 44
 
Optional interiors:
Staterooms: 6 (x4 = 24)
Passengers: 20, Cargo: 4 (= 24)
Cargo: 24
 
 
 
I did the Y-wing too - I hope you like it.
 
Y-wing
 
Cockpit: 2 (pilot + gunner)
Passenger: 1 (astromech droid)
Weapons: 5 (laser x2, ion, proton x2)
Cargo: None (only personal gear)
Hyperspace: 1 (no module)
Engine (TR70): 3
Maneuver (TR50): 3
Shields: 10
Armor: 3
Apps: Targeting +10%
 
SPEED 15
HANDLING 11
SIZE 14

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M–SPACE   d100 Roleplaying in the Far Future

Odd Soot  Science Fiction Mystery in the 1920s

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  • 2 weeks later...

Time for another classic Star Wars ship: The A-wing. Used as an interceptor and the only rebel ship to match the TIE-fighters for speed.

 

 

A-wing

 
Cockpit: 1
Weapons: 3 (2 laser, 1 missile)
Hyperspace: 1 (no module)
Cargo: None (personal/survival gear)
Engine: (TR100) 2 
Maneuver: (TR100) 2
Armor: -
Shields: 10
Apps: Targeting +10%
 
SPEED 25
HANDLING 25
SIZE 8

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M–SPACE   d100 Roleplaying in the Far Future

Odd Soot  Science Fiction Mystery in the 1920s

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  • 1 month later...
The second print proof arrived a few days ago and it looks very good! Just a few small cosmetic changes and it's all finished. 
 
 
Page count is now 168 and the final list of contents looks like this:
 
 
Starship Design. Modular starship design. 
 
Starship Combat. Quick to play starship combat.
 
Characters. Professions, new skills & Inspirations. 
 
Advanced Combat. More options for starship combat. 
 
Constructs. Rules for robots and synthetic persons. 
 
Alien Creation. Guided process to spark imaginative lifeforms & cultures. 
 
World Building. World building focused on the conflicts of a world. 
 
Psionics. Quick rules for mental powers. 
 
Social Conflict. Conflict system for socially driven games. 
 
Circles. Organization design & conflict. 
 
Vehicles. Modular vehicle design. 
 
 
 
 
Unfortunately the formalities with Chaosium have taken a bit longer than anticipated. Hopefully everything will be sorted out soon, as the new management team is in place now. 
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M–SPACE   d100 Roleplaying in the Far Future

Odd Soot  Science Fiction Mystery in the 1920s

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  • 2 months later...
With the news that BGB is being set aside in favor of a much more compact BRP Essentials based on RQ6, I've been pondering how BRP Space should encompass these changes. Here are some of my thoughts so far, though crippled a little by the lack of information about new licensing policies and the actual content of the rules.
 
The easiest way would be to just make a minimum of necessary changes in BRP Space and refer readers to the PDF of BRP Essentials. A quite tempting solution, but it feels a bit like a missed opportunity to make the book self-contained. A step up from this solution is to add BRPE, as is, in the beginning (or end) of the book and just make the absolute necessary changes. The book will be a complete game, without setting, but with some possible quirks relating to professions appearing in two different places for example.
 
A third way is to actually integrate the two books. Mostly I think it will consist of combining the BRP Space chapter Characters with the chapter on character creation in BRPE. Personal combat I guess will be a completely new chapter, and probably some other stuff need to be added here and there throughout the book. A lot more work, but also a much more elegant end product. Either way it will add 30-40 pages to the book, thus ending up at around 200 pages.
 
What do you prefer? Should it be a seamless integration or a core with separate sci-fi rules?
 
It's also worth pointing out that nothing has been revealed yet about when BRPE will be released, so it's hard to predict when the final version of BRP Space will be available. Can we hope for BRPE to be out in time for christmas?

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M–SPACE   d100 Roleplaying in the Far Future

Odd Soot  Science Fiction Mystery in the 1920s

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I also vote for a complete game. I prefer BGB/monograph-style rules to RQ6. Generally I prefer fewer fiddly rules at my table. As you say, licensing options might be a bit grey at the moment. But as a complete book with its own variant rules, I'd imagine you could ally yourself with whatever core or family works out best contractually.

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So far Chaosium is my first choice regarding licensing. Going with Revolution d100 is very tempting, as I'm very impressed with it so far, but I think it will take a bit of getting used to. A later update will hopefully include guidelines for using them together. 

With Chaosium, BRP Essentials will be the rules to include. At 32 pages I don't think they will differ much from traditional BRP. But, as someone pointed out, the final decision about licensing and what can be included is in Chaosium's hands. I'm currently in contact with Jeff about these questions.

So far, a majority here wants a book with all the rules included. That's my own preference too. Exactly how to do it seems a more open affair. I guess I'm worried the book will look cheap if I just copy the BRPE and paste it into BRP Space... I wonder how they will do it in Mythic Iceland - integrate it or keep setting and basic rules separate?

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Thanks, both of you! I think it makes sense to integrate BRPE as much as possible. It gives a much more polished impression, and probably makes it easier to use the book in play too.

If Chaosium makes it easy to use BRPE in this way, I think it's the way to go for BRP Space. The more I think of it, as most of the chapters are pretty self-contained rules wise, it boils down to integrating the chapters on characters, while Combat will be added as a new chapter.

This brings me to another interesting question: How to order the chapters. Generally in RPGs, unless it's a scenario/campaign, the chapter on characters comes first. Both in BRP Space and in a sci-fi campaign I'm writing at the moment, I have instead put the most prominent feature first. In BRP Space it's starships, in my campaign it's alien descriptions. How do you feel/think about this? Is it just dumb to deviate from the classic structure? Or is it a good thing to focus on what's unique?

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The problem with RP books is that they have to be designed to do two things. They have to be laid out to accommodate learning the rules and they have to be laid out to allow use as a reference during play. Very often these two things are incompatible in terms of layout. What works for one does not work for the other.

Character generation si often placed first so that someone reading the rules can work out how a character should look before reading the combat and magic chapters. However once a character has been generated then that chunk of text becomes an impediment to using the rules in play as teh GM has to flick past those rules to find the relevant sections for use in play.

This is probably why authors go for a Player's book and a GM's book as the relevant sections can be placed in a different order to suit the reader.

Edited by nclarke

Nigel

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I think a lot has to do with the overall page count. Modern D&D has a huge amount of character generation material so it more-or-less needs to have a separate players' book. If you can keep the character generation fairly short, it's not so much an impediment. But as nclarke said, you might also consider your target audience - are you aiming at RPG newbies, or people who already have some experience?

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I think a lot has to do with the overall page count. Modern D&D has a huge amount of character generation material so it more-or-less needs to have a separate players' book. If you can keep the character generation fairly short, it's not so much an impediment

D&D character generation is limited by the fact that you need to specify a gazillion of class advancement options in the class description - which is technically part of the chargen chapter. That is another big problem of class-based systems. To get rid of bloated rulebooks, you only have one route: go BRP!

 . But as nclarke said, you might also consider your target audience - are you aiming at RPG newbies, or people who already have some experience?

"I am aiming at people with experience" is not an excuse to skip important part of the rules "because the GM knows best". RQ6 is specifically aimed at experienced players, and we all know how long it is. And I cannot define any part of it as "redundant".

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"I am aiming at people with experience" is not an excuse to skip important part of the rules "because the GM knows best". RQ6 is specifically aimed at experienced players, and we all know how long it is. And I cannot define any part of it as "redundant".

To be clear, I'm not advocating leaving bits out, just how it affects the order and emphasis of different elements of the rules.

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Really? This is a question? ;-)

A better question might be, "Why should I make my book, one in a long line of similar books, be organized differently from everything else I own?"

If I were running a game of BRP Starships, my ships would already be designed, my locations detailed, my plot and characters all written up. So exactly what benefits do I, the GM, get from this one book out of my collection being organized, and yes I'll say it, backwards?

At the very least I will usually open to the wrong part, whatever I'm looking for.

Please yourself, but I can't think of anything else that "deserves" to be placed first instead.

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Yes, I agree. The reason it's coming up here and now is because the conditions have changed considerably. BRP Starships used to be a small book being used together with a quite extensive rulebook. It didn't even have a chapter on characters until recently. Now it's going to be a free standing game in 200 pages. This outcome had never crossed my mind until a couple of weeks ago. I guess it just takes a while for me to get used to. Thanks for making it a bit clearer to me. 

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I think character generation would best be in the front. I have been running games at various local game stores for several years now and ran games at friends houses years before that. I run games at local game stores because it helps attract new players. They come up and observe that a game is in progress and if it is something that looks interesting they'll ask the players questions and the players answer as well as give their game book for the individual to look at. When a new person opens a book, they start in the front. New players? Front of the book. They want to know how to play and what they are going to play. Existing players are familiar with the game and usually know where to look. Middle is fine for me. Game Masters are usually people who have played long enough to have read the book several times and have more than a good idea of where to look for needed game mechanics. Back of the book.
Now that being said. My own suggestion and someone already mentioned it in passing but not to BRP. Separate the sections into separate books. Say character generation, a few alien races (friendly to humans), combat, equipment and skills into it's own book for players. Location, adventures, special items, alien races (includes characters),Monsters etc., spaceships and advanced items into another book for advanced/Gm's. One of the biggest complaints I have heard about the Big Gold Book since I have been using it is it is too cumbersome. I hand  the BGB to an individual who wants to know what the game is about and their first reaction is: “I have to know all this to play?”. And they shutdown and no matter how much you try to convince them they are not able to get that out of their head. They won't ask questions either. Yet if you hand them BRP Light, BRP Basic or (maybe even BRPE?), they look at it and say, “This doesn't tell me anything. Where's all the interesting stuff?”  And they are thinking man what a boring game. And they shut down. They say the first impression is the most important one. Ask anyone who has gone to a job interview. 2 (or 3) separate books. My vote.


Daniel

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 I agree there is a tension between writing a book that is a good introduction to a game and writing one that works well at the table over the course of a whole game. You always need to go with a good introduction to the game. If a book isn't geared to a first time reader, it's doubtful that they will get far enough to see how handy the book is in play. 

That said, I like to see a brief overview of the system at the front of the book. Nothing detailed, but just enough to understand the dice mechanics and how basic actions work. No more than 3-5 pages. That way when I look over character generation, I have a better sense of what the numbers mean.

One of the biggest complaints I have heard about the Big Gold Book since I have been using it is it is too cumbersome. I hand  the BGB to an individual who wants to know what the game is about and their first reaction is: “I have to know all this to play?”. And they shutdown and no matter how much you try to convince them they are not able to get that out of their head. They won't ask questions either. Yet if you hand them BRP Light, BRP Basic or (maybe even BRPE?), they look at it and say, “This doesn't tell me anything. Where's all the interesting stuff?”  And they are thinking man what a boring game. And they shut down.

I don't think the issue with the BGB is its size. It's not that big by RPG standards. The issue is that it is a toolkit full of differing options. As a new player or GM, all those options are wearying. And, as you say, a light version is going to be too little to catch some people's attention.

It's always better for someone new to the system to actually start with one of the specific games in the family like Magic World or Call of Cthulhu. Or, theoretically, as some point in the future, BRP Space. 

This isn't meant as a criticism of the BGB. I really like my copy. It's just not something I would ever hand to a new player. 

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From the above I would say Chaosium is making a smart move rules-wise: They leave the BGB to the tinkers and (hopefully) make a slim set of basic rules available for licensees. Handing over reasonably sized book, focused both in content and graphically (CoC, Mythic Iceland and eventually BRP Space), will be much more likely to happen. I think your analysis is sound.

So, have anyone heard rumors about when we can expect BRPE to be out? Jason said in another thread he had read an early manuscript… (yes, I asked Chaosium but haven't got a reply yet).

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M–SPACE   d100 Roleplaying in the Far Future

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From the above I would say Chaosium is making a smart move rules-wise: They leave the BGB to the tinkers and (hopefully) make a slim set of basic rules available for licensees. Handing over reasonably sized book, focused both in content and graphically (CoC, Mythic Iceland and eventually BRP Space), will be much more likely to happen. I think your analysis is sound.

I think with some reorganization and the move to other locations, it will be a while before anything definite will come out, unless it is something already in the works. Chaosium going through a move, new management, reorganizing schedule, finding out who will be in charge of what, (we have already seen some indications of this), approving new ideas, new printing schedules, advertisement and distribution, I think we are looking at a year to a year and a half for anything new that would be in house work. That probably would also include communicating with others. And that would be just in-house. Outside work, approval and publication, probably 2-3 years minmium. I think they will be cautious. Everything I have read and been told makes me believe that they want this to work, and that will take preparation, studying past experience and new methods and believing they can do it. I think they will produce a fine product (If not Great).

But, for BRP Space or other name you might give it, I think it needs to be a complete game. If they haven't gotten back to you, in say three months, six months or even a year from the first inquiry, go on without them. As a writer, that is the reccomendations that I have heard from Editors, Publishers and Agents where I have come in contact with them. It's nice to have experienced people helping us to get something creative out there, but sometimes the path of others walk isn't really the path for us to walk. I say publish it as a stand alone product.

 

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Yes, I've emailed a bit with Jeff. But no final word on licensing or BRPE yet, so I'm not changing anything until I know more. Let's hope for a statement soon : )

I contacted MOB in relation to some questions I had regarding  monographs, fan material and licensing and he indicated that there will be some sort of license for using BRPE - but understandably couldn't provide any details as yet.

I'm sure they will get back to you when they can.

Nick

Edited by NickMiddleton
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