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Strike Rank - Noobie Question


xmdang3

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Hi all, I have been reading through the Chaosium Runequest 2nd edition book and D100 II Srd and I am having a hard time with strike ranks.

 

I understand strike rank depends on Dex/Siz/Weaponn Length/POW and is like initiative order of combat, however I am having trouble understanding how there is also strike rank for actions.

 

Strike ranks for actions which is the most confusing for me because it sounds like you spend points to do attacks looking at the weapons tables. 

 

Could someone clear this up for me or even possibly include an example with strike ranks and strike rank expenditure if the way I am thinking is correct.

 

Looking forward to your help!

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Okay, let me take a stab at it (probably on SR 7).

 

During the declaration phase each player states what his character is going to do for the round. This can be things like attacks, spell casting, and so on. Even things like jumping from one rooftop to another or climbing a wall are actions. 

 

During the round, the GM does a count up from SR 1 to SR 10. Each action occurs on a specific Strike Rank, which is determined by adding up various modifiers. For example, an average (SIZ 13, DEX 11) person attacking with a sword (SRM 2) would normally make an attack on Strike Rank 7 (SIZ SR Modifier of 2, DEX SR Modifier of 3, plus SR Modifier of 2 for the weapon). If he were fighting something that attacked on a earlier strike rank (i.e SR1-5) then he would attack after they did. 

 

This allows you to sequence events in a combat round fairly easily. You can tell if a spell is cast before an attack goes off or not by looking at what Strike Rank the events occur on. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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BRP's Strike Rank/Dex Rank system reminds me a bit of Hero System's Speed Chart.  Combat rounds were divided into 12 phases, and the higher a character's Speed (based on Dexterity) the more actions he could take during that time, and the sooner he usually acted.  Average characters were typically SPD 2 (two actions during a 12-second period).  Action hero types (most player-characters) were SPD 3.  Especially agile folks (Bruce Lee, Batman) might be SPD 4.  In a Champions game, Spider-Man and Flash types might be SPD 6 or more.

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After decades, we finally grasped the idea...and threw it out the window  :) . We now use simple DEX ranks

 

"You're faster. You'll go first. You'll go second. The sarcosuchus goes third and the barbarian goes last. Now, make your Statements (or wills) and let's make crocodile skin wallets!"

 

The concept gets through our thick skulls and is easier on our simple brain matter.

 

Slainte!

Present home-port: home-brew BRP/OQ SRD variant; past ports-of-call: SB '81, RQIII '84, BGB '08, RQIV(Mythras) '12,  MW '15, and OQ '17

BGB BRP: 0 edition: 20/420; .pdf edition: 06/11/08; 1st edition: 06/13/08

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After decades, we finally grasped the idea...and threw it out the window  :) . We now use simple DEX ranks

 

"You're faster. You'll go first. You'll go second. The sarcosuchus goes third and the barbarian goes last. Now, make your Statements (or wills) and let's make crocodile skin wallets!"

 

The concept gets through our thick skulls and is easier on our simple brain matter.

 

Slainte!

 

We also abandoned the strike rank system in favor of BRP.CF's simpler DEX+1D10 initiative system.

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In RQ2/D100II SRD there are actually twelve (12) strike ranks. In was lowered to 10 in RQ3.

Yup, and I prefer the old RQ2 method. The SRs for stats and weapons were changed when they went to 10 SR. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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After decades, we finally grasped the idea...and threw it out the window  :) . We now use simple DEX ranks 

 

 

 

 

Okay, but you also loose out on a lot of stuff that way. One neat thing about Strike Ranks is that it allows a guy with a loaded crossbow to shoot a charging foe who is 9m away before they can close into melee range.

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Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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I ran the RQ3 SR system for years. Loved the way that quicker and less encumbered characters had an advantage in regards to combat order over heavily armoured tanks.

But ultimately the core BRP/Stormbringer Initiative System won out, as it was quick, DEX +D10. My players also tend to like the fact that they roll for Initiative, they got bored with having a set score for every combat scene.

 

I really like how RQ6 meshed the ideas together, as it has the logical points of the RQ3 SR system, with the ease and speed of the core BRP Initiative system. 

 

These days I run a hybrid rules system which is kinda BRP with lots of RQ3 options, coupled with some ideas from RQ6. And our initiative system reflects that.

 

So our players create a Strike Rank Score in character generation which is calculated as follows: SR = (DEX-SIZ)+INT.

If we are playing a modern setting, like Call of Cthulhu or a Pulp Adventure setting, then initiative is a roll of SR+D10.

If we are playing a fantasy setting where melee combat is a focus, the initiative scores are a roll of (SR - ENC)+D10. In game play it is just as simple as DEX+D10, yet it feels like it has the logics of the RQ3 SR system in the fact that less encumbered characters tend to act first.

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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Okay, but you also loose out on a lot of stuff that way. One neat thing about Strike Ranks is that it allows a guy with a loaded crossbow to shoot a charging foe who is 9m away before they can close into melee range.

Err, that's entirely reproducible using DEX ranks systems such as the one in Magic World, or, indeed Cal of Cthulhu 6e...

Nick

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  • 2 weeks later...

Err, that's entirely reproducible using DEX ranks systems such as the one in Magic World, or, indeed Cal of Cthulhu 6e...

Nick

 

 

Uh, how?

 

AFAIK the DEX rank system never sequenced in things like weapon speed or movement.  THe guy with the higher DEX acts first - even if he has to run across a room  to swing his blade - before the guy with the readied arrow.

 

 

With SRs missile weapons tended to go off first, and moving across a room delayed the attack by one or more SRs. Polearms had reach and so on. But none of that was ported over to the DEX rank systems.  A pity, too, as part of the fun of old RQ combat was knowing when to go for a quick action of spell in order to get the attack off before an opponent's action. Spells like Heal 2 might be attempted in battle, but Heal 5 was not something worth attempting while engaged. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Uh, how?

 

AFAIK the DEX rank system never sequenced in things like weapon speed or movement.  THe guy with the higher DEX acts first - even if he has to run across a room  to swing his blade - before the guy with the readied arrow.

 

 

With SRs missile weapons tended to go off first, and moving across a room delayed the attack by one or more SRs. Polearms had reach and so on. But none of that was ported over to the DEX rank systems.  A pity, too, as part of the fun of old RQ combat was knowing when to go for a quick action of spell in order to get the attack off before an opponent's action. Spells like Heal 2 might be attempted in battle, but Heal 5 was not something worth attempting while engaged. 

 

Yes it is. The rules is listed under Move action in BRP page 190. I will quote it for you just in case.

So you can see it is implemented in the regular DEX rank system and it should be possible for a guy with ranged weapon to shoot first since movement lowers DEX rank depending on how far he moves. I myself dislike that they use meters in the text and have replaced it with MOV myself. It is suggested elsewhere that 1 MOV is about 3 meters so these numbers are correct for regular humans with 10 MOV. The simplified list should look something like this:

  • 0-1 MOV = No DEX penalty
  • 2 MOV up to 1/2 MOV = 1/2 DEX rank
  • Over 1/2 MOV up to Max MOV-1 = 1/4 DEX rank
  • Max MOV = No DEX rank.
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Note that in some implementations of the DEX rank system, it doesn't mention meters - it just talks about fractions of MOV.

As early as the original Worlds of Wonder version of the DEX rank system, combining actions (so, moving to attack someone) halved your effective DEX rank for that round, but since the original Elric! the concept has been that moving first will delay other actions! and moving your WHOLE MOV takes a full round.

Cheers,

Nick

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Interesting. So according to the BRP RAW someone could still move 5m without a DEX rank reduction?

 

I think I prefer the subtraction method rather that halving and quartering DEX ranks.  Something like subtracting 1 DEX rank per MOV used. That way I could port over stuff like -1 DEX rank per magic point expended and so on right over from Strike Ranks. 

 

Hmm, lets see, if I did it that way the second shot for a missile weapon would be at DEX/2-3. And the third would be at DEX/3-6.

 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Magic World ( I think copying directly from Elric!, but my copy of that is at home) does it this way:

 

An Adventurer can move to engage another character, but if he moves more than half his allowable movement, he must wait until the next combat round to attack (he can dodge or parry, of course). If he moves 2 MOV or less, he forfeits five DEX-ranks. If he moves 3-4 MOV, he forfeits ten DEX ranks.

 

As an old RQ hand, I generally impose a minimum DEX rank "cost" of anything as 5 DEX (this matches a lot of the spot rules e.g. Careful Aim).

 

Cheers,

 

Nick

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I have a brainstorm on this... new Strike Rank/Dex Rank -ish system....

 

Most BRP games have minimum Str and Dex requirements to use a particular weapon without penalty (presumably based on the weight/encumbrance of the weapon).

 

Rather than imposing a skill penalty, what if failure to meet these requirements were applied to "Strike Rank"... based on DEX with the weapon penalties applied.

 

Just a thought.

 

SDLeary

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I have a brainstorm on this... new Strike Rank/Dex Rank -ish system....

 

Most BRP games have minimum Str and Dex requirements to use a particular weapon without penalty (presumably based on the weight/encumbrance of the weapon).

 

Rather than imposing a skill penalty, what if failure to meet these requirements were applied to "Strike Rank"... based on DEX with the weapon penalties applied.

 

Just a thought.

 

SDLeary

Interesting, but to what extent? I could see somebody with a bad DEX and SIZ not being concerned about the penalty, since he would be going last anyway. .There p[robably ins't much difference between going off at DEX rank 5 and DEX rank 1.

 

One thing that might be neat would be a Ringworld approach, where DEX ranks didn't reset every round. Then a 1 or 2 point DEX penalty could possibly end up costing an attack over several rounds. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Interesting, but to what extent? I could see somebody with a bad DEX and SIZ not being concerned about the penalty, since he would be going last anyway. .There p[robably ins't much difference between going off at DEX rank 5 and DEX rank 1.

 

One thing that might be neat would be a Ringworld approach, where DEX ranks didn't reset every round. Then a 1 or 2 point DEX penalty could possibly end up costing an attack over several rounds. 

I've looked at the Impulse system for a while... Impulse like tracking might work, but when we were playing oh those many years ago, all I can remember what a bear it was to track properly.

 

SDLeary

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I've looked at the Impulse system for a while... Impulse like tracking might work, but when we were playing oh those many years ago, all I can remember what a bear it was to track properly.

 

SDLeary

What I didn't like about it was that most of the modfiers only applied on the first turn, and then it just keep repeating ever so many impulses based on DEX.

 

I think to really work right, an imnpulse system would need weapon reach and integrated movement. Sop a smaller, quicker weapon could be faster, but a longer reach weapon could keep the short weapon at bay. While that doens't quite work right with SRs it doesn't work at all with impulses. At least yet.

 

But back to my question...since the guys lacking DEX and SIZ are probably going to attack last anyway, what is the drawback if the penalties are applied to SR/DEX rank? Looks like a freebie. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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What I didn't like about it was that most of the modfiers only applied on the first turn, and then it just keep repeating ever so many impulses based on DEX.

 

I think to really work right, an imnpulse system would need weapon reach and integrated movement. Sop a smaller, quicker weapon could be faster, but a longer reach weapon could keep the short weapon at bay. While that doens't quite work right with SRs it doesn't work at all with impulses. At least yet.

 

But back to my question...since the guys lacking DEX and SIZ are probably going to attack last anyway, what is the drawback if the penalties are applied to SR/DEX rank? Looks like a freebie. 

Well in this case things would be tracked on DEX... so perhaps only the DEX Rank penalty if the character didn't have the STR to wield the weapon properly as we are already factoring DEX as the primary reaction stat, that way the character is not penalized twice for a low DEX. Same would apply perhaps if it were factored into SR. Again, just a brainstorm... haven't really worked out the details.

 

SDLeary

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