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Agility/Idea/Luck roll equivalent in Legend


nerdvana

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Evasion or Acrobatics could be used in place of Agility. An idea roll or luck roll are tricker. For the idea roll it would have to be a relevant mental skill. Culture/ own or Lore: regional might be good candidates. For the luck roll this might be giving them the option to spend a hero point, unless you want to have them roll Persistence.

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They're tied to the POW characteristic, aren't dished-out by the GM, and replenish every session. So, yes, they are...

Interesting.  One of the things I disliked about Hero points was how few of them you got, how slowly you got them back, and how you had to use them to buy Heroic Abilities.  It was for those reasons that I came up with the Legend Edges and Stunting rules. 

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Evasion or Acrobatics could be used in place of Agility. An idea roll or luck roll are tricker. For the idea roll it would have to be a relevant mental skill. Culture/ own or Lore: regional might be good candidates. For the luck roll this might be giving them the option to spend a hero point, unless you want to have them roll Persistence.

 

 

I get the Acrobatics, Athletics, and Evade for Agility. And Hero Points for Luck also makes sense. The Idea roll still seems under represented in Legend -- Insight seems more like reading a person's body language, not so much the ability to recall facts that you've overheard but otherwise don't have a skill for and using existing skills seems contradictory also because the point is that this is a check for things you might have heard and remembered but not have actively learned (and thus have no skill for) or for a spark of genius putting things together you previously hadn't thought of.

 

I think the fix I foresee is to just add "Idea Roll" (which I'm going to call "Cognition Check" instead) as an Attribute to Legend. Is there something I'm missing that would make this totally break the system?

Edited by nerdvana
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Ah. I can see that if you just go based on the name of the skill, but the description is very specific in the RAW

 

Sure, you could go exactly by the description of the skill, however, where's the fun in that?

 

It depends on the situation, as do many things in RPGs.

 

Avoiding a boulder that rolls down a slope would need Evade. Balancing on a tightrope might need a new skill. Avoiding poisoned spikes in a tight corridor (As an Iron Maiden) might be Acrobatics, or perhaps Sneak.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

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"Balancing on a tightrope" should be acrobatics.

 

Also, you can spend a Hero Point to get a clue from the GM. If it was something I felt the character should know, I would just remind them with "you recall that..." and share the info. If the players are feeling stuck, they can spend a Hero Point and get some direction from me. I will also make it VERY worth their time since a Hero Point is worth something. In what context would you use an Idea Roll?

Trentin C Bergeron

Bard, Creative, & RPG Enthusiast

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  • 2 weeks later...

You have to be on the characters side. It's about player-centric GMing. The story is about your protagonists. Why would you have a situation where you have essential facts that you have no intention of sharing with the characters? So, in your game, if me and the other players can't guess what's coming up and cover all our bases during character creation, we will fail your adventure? Is it generally that scripted?

 

Let's look at some classic BRP-isms. I have a plethora of various rolls. If I succeed, I get the clue or I find the clue or I deduct the clue. If I fail - Go Fish. Then, we wash rinse repeat as me and my fellows flounder about trying to dig up enough clues before we run out of failed skill attempts. It's boring, frustrating, and generally a VERY old school "gotcha" GM tactic. We've come up with some better mousetraps since then.

 

Look at GURPS mysteries, or the GM advice in a GumShoe game. Mysteries suck unless you can get the players information. How they act on it is another thing, but generally you want them to get the info. There should be NO circumstance where you're withholding info, unless you truly feel the characters can't know it unless they possess the knowledge. What is a Lockness Monster? Oh, no one has Monster Lore? OK, you're best guess is, it's a monster! Probably horrible in someway, since everyone is talking about it. That seems fair to me (the players could seek out an expert, recon the creature to gather info, perform a seance and ask the elders...). In cases where missing information is 1) not going to immediately kill the players and 2) there are alternative ways to gather the info - I don't feel bad saying "you don't know". Recalling facts? Recall means I knew it, read it, heard it or experienced before. You can't generally recall something you never learned. BUT, that can also be NOT FUN. So...

 

Hero Points cover all this, but better. 

 

Making Luck rolls, Idea rolls and the like means there is a chance it's NOT going to work. So you end up playing Go Fish anyways. Not as fun. I'm a player, having an off night, and I'm stumped. I need a bone. I toss the Hero Point and the GM throws me a bone. You should probably get creative about it, working the epiphany into the situation, but the player needs help, spends a resource, and you help them! The game moves forward. People keep having fun. WIN WIN!

 

If you want an Investigation skill or Deduction skill, I could see that coming into play, HOWEVER, you have to be careful to not turn the game into a simple; roll, talk numbers, get stuff excercise. Maybe these skills help find better clues? Or get more clues? Or maybe it gives hints with clues? Don't you imagine as a player - figuring out the mystery, or best way to defeat a monster, or solve the puzzle would be MORE satisfying if you basically figured it out? Of course we all aren't Sherlock Holmes (personally I suck at riddles, word puzzles and the like...), so I could see a skill that helps the process along, but I would advocate for defining that skill in a way that aids the player without REPLACING the actual deduction or figuring things out by the player.

 

This of course is "two pence", YMMV, etc. I have my preferences as to how to GM, and in my 30 odd years of doing it, I've learned a couple things about what players (I've encountered) like/want (I think), but I don't have all the answers. :-)

Trentin C Bergeron

Bard, Creative, & RPG Enthusiast

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I would go with the above advice for using Hero Points.

 

If that is too liberal, then allow the PCs to make a Characteristic Roll (eg: INT x5%) only after expending a Hero Point.

 

If this is too broad in scope, then you could ask the player to choose a favoured Characteristic in char gen and then make it an Ability that they can make a Characteristic Roll (x5%) for that particular characteristic upon expenditure of a Hero Point.

 

So they choose to be Agile, Deductive, or Lucky, and this is kind of built into their character concept from the start.

 

Just an idea, but the concept of broadening Hero Points to cover these situations certainly makes sense.

 

(As an aside, in my home rules for BRP, I only allow the characters to make characteristic rolls at x1%, although if they expend Power Points then this chance is increased. I'm pretty particular when these are able to be used, so they don't displace the importance of having Skills.

For a gritty setting, for every Power Point spent then the chance is raised by x1%, maximum of x5%. For a pulp setting, the cost is only 1 Power Point to raise the chance up to x5%. These rules have worked well for me; although Power Points are not Hero Points like in LEGEND however).

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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