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Magic system


mrfish

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I´m in the very early planing stages of my first d100 campaign, and I´ve settled on Magic World to be the base for the rules. I like that it seems like one of the more simple variants but has enough depth to keep long time d20 players interested. What I found I didn't really like was the magic system, therefore I was wondering how easy it would be to import one of the systems from RQ6, and whether there are anything I should watch out for if doing so. 

 

I´d like a system that is skill based in combination with magic points, so if theres any other system out there that might fit, especially if its simpler, then let me know.

 

 

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You don't need a separate system for this. Just add a skill % to each spell and require a success to cast it.

Spell base % might start at INT, POW, or INT +POW.

I personally use a single skill: Knowledge (sorcery )(INT +POW) for spell casting in my campaign. Then also Knowledge (Rituals), Knowledge (Runes) for other forms of magic. Works good enough for my group.

Author QUASAR space opera system: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/459723/QUASAR?affiliate_id=810507

My Magic World projects page: Tooleys Underwhelming Projects

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I used the magic system from Classic Fantasy with Magic World with little trouble.  Classic Fantasy is a kind of mash up of RQ and AD&D.  I pretty much ran it as is, only using DEX/INT ranks rather than whatever initiative system was in place.

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My Own campaign provides room for each of the alternative magic systems. and my players all came off a long stint of 4E DnD.   I've found that Deep Magic has a lot of ambiguity that a min/maxer can simply go to town with (So I had to thoroughly re-engineer it).  The next problem with was with Magic World Sorcery in that, as somebody else noted on the forums elsewhere, it was both too powerful and too weak in many respects. I then discovered Enlightened Sorcery, which works very nicely with some minor tweaks in a high-magic world.  But my players like blasty mages, and much of my campaign involves converted/tweaked DnD modules, so most of the spellcasters use an ES inspired reiteration of the Classic Fantasy magic system; this breaks down spells from each class into Common, Uncommon, and Rare.  I house-ruled that a spellcaster must reach 75% in Common spells before being able to cast Uncommon Spells, and then 75% in Uncommon Spell Casting skill (I forget what I called it) before learning how to Cast Rare spells.   It's a middle-way between single-skill spellcasting and having to learn each spell as it's own skill.  Oh yeah, clerics and such get to add their favored allegiance to their spellcasting skill (fumbles are always possible, though).  When I'm feeling lazy, I'll just give an NPC Magic World spells to throw around . . . lol

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If everybody in the world thought and acted like i do, then who would be the players in my Basic Role Playing game?

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Thanks for the replies!

 

The campaign is going to low magic, getting inspiration from western and central Europe around 11-1200, and perhaps harnmaster (which fits at least my definition of low magic). I´m thinking of letting the campaign at least start as a semi-histroical introduction into manorialism, and perhaps also introducing different PoV, a bit similar to Ars Magica, if I remember that system correctly, but with serfs and lords. Such campaigns tend to get a bit too complex though, so I´m not decided upon that yet. I´ve been thinking of using d20 variants that fit low magic settings better than standard 3.5 and Pathfinder, like adopting the magic system from true sorcery to GoT d20, or simply ruinnig black company d20, but I´d really like to move away from d20.

 

At the same time I don't want to overwhelm the players with too complex rules, my experience is that there are few players less willing to experiment with new systems than long time d20 players :) I´ll check out classic, but its seems like its a bit to close to d20. Enlightened Sorcery seems interesting, its the sort of magic I´d like to introduce into a low magic setting.

 

I really like your quick fix tooley, have to check up on some of the other BRP magic systems first, and if I don't find anything that suits me, I might run with that.

 

Am I right in thinking that Advanced Sorcery uses rules similar to Magic World, not being skill based etc?

 

I´m really liking how modular BRP seems to be btw, and really looking forward to getting back to playing d100 systems that aren't CoC. Haven't done that since Elric Dark Fantasy RPG from chaosium, which must be 17-18 years ago. 

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Enlightened Sorcery is a great system for quasi-realistic low magic settings, and also contains guidelines for increasing the potency for play in more high magic settings. It is skill based, although not for individual spells, there are a few magic skills that cover various Categories of spells. It also has rules for Alchemy as well.

It's quite different from magic portrayed in standard D&D games. Thoroughly recommended.

(BTW Harnmaster does have a great system as well, and porting that over to BRP should be relatively easy, although it is more fantasy flavoured. Also Tooley's suggestion works quite well with the standard MW Sorcery rules)

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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Thanks for the replies!

 

The campaign is going to low magic, getting inspiration from western and central Europe around 11-1200, and perhaps harnmaster (which fits at least my definition of low magic). I´m thinking of letting the campaign at least start as a semi-histroical introduction into manorialism, and perhaps also introducing different PoV, a bit similar to Ars Magica, if I remember that system correctly, but with serfs and lords. Such campaigns tend to get a bit too complex though, so I´m not decided upon that yet. I´ve been thinking of using d20 variants that fit low magic settings better than standard 3.5 and Pathfinder, like adopting the magic system from true sorcery to GoT d20, or simply ruinnig black company d20, but I´d really like to move away from d20.

 

At the same time I don't want to overwhelm the players with too complex rules, my experience is that there are few players less willing to experiment with new systems than long time d20 players :) I´ll check out classic, but its seems like its a bit to close to d20. Enlightened Sorcery seems interesting, its the sort of magic I´d like to introduce into a low magic setting.

 

I really like your quick fix tooley, have to check up on some of the other BRP magic systems first, and if I don't find anything that suits me, I might run with that.

 

Am I right in thinking that Advanced Sorcery uses rules similar to Magic World, not being skill based etc?

 

I´m really liking how modular BRP seems to be btw, and really looking forward to getting back to playing d100 systems that aren't CoC. Haven't done that since Elric Dark Fantasy RPG from chaosium, which must be 17-18 years ago. 

 

Advanced Sorcery has a bunch more spells, and three other kinds of magic systems I believe.  Of them, Arete is the coolest.  It isn't quite magic, more like getting a magical bonus from having a really high skill score.

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I´ll be reading through ES first, but AS is on the list as well, thanks!

 

But a couple of questions about Arete, how powerful is it compared to say folk magic from RQ6? And, since its based on achieving a certain level of skill, could it perhaps represent the mystical skill of a medieval smith? 

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I´ll be reading through ES first, but AS is on the list as well, thanks!

 

But a couple of questions about Arete, how powerful is it compared to say folk magic from RQ6?

Don't know RQ6 well enough to say for certain, but I'd guess iin general arête is less powerful (because the high skill levels required are hard to come by and thus rare) but in specific circumstances it can be more powerful (the individual effects are quite effective).

That is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind whilst writing the arête chapter, and influenced the rules (and some of the examples) I wrote.

Cheers,

Nick

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I´d like a system that is skill based in combination with magic points, so if theres any other system out there that might fit, especially if its simpler, then let me know.

Why don't you just port the Magic system from the Basic RolePlaying book? The spells are as skills and each costs a fixed amount of Magic Points per level of the spell you want to cast. Very simple system that I like.

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Or, to go even simpler - just a single "Sorcery" skill. To cast a spell requires the MP and a successful skill roll. Special and Critical successes on the casting roll can either reduce the MP cost or extend the spell effect; fumbles can cause minor magical mishaps. Spending multiples of the spells standard MP cost can improve the base casting chance - so double the MP for double the casting chance, but will also make fumbles more significant. Plus the Sorcery skill can be used for non spell casting tasks such as recognizing which spell another caster is attempting; determine what entity a summoning ritual was calling based on whats left behind etc.

Otherwise, keep the Magic World spells / magic system as is. Simple, highly compatible and adds an element of skill use to using Magic.

Cheers,

Nick

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Or, to go even simpler - just a single "Sorcery" skill. To cast a spell requires the MP and a successful skill roll. Special and Critical successes on the casting roll can either reduce the MP cost or extend the spell effect; fumbles can cause minor magical mishaps. Spending multiples of the spells standard MP cost can improve the base casting chance - so double the MP for double the casting chance, but will also make fumbles more significant. Plus the Sorcery skill can be used for non spell casting tasks such as recognizing which spell another caster is attempting; determine what entity a summoning ritual was calling based on whats left behind etc.

 

This is what I do. Depending on how easy and accessible you want magic to be in your campaign, you can have either a general sorcery skill for all magic, a skill for each 'school' or type of magic (classify as you will), or even a separate skill for every individual spell if you want magic to be difficult to obtain and master.

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Or, to go even simpler - just a single "Sorcery" skill. 

 

Hear! Hear! I do something very similar: single skill.

 

I raised the minimum statistics, however, as a limiting factor and my MW magic-users need at least a 17 in both POW and INT. The "ruling" was meant to convey how rare it was for someone to have magical skills potential though, not necessarily to limit the PCs. I'm preping a campaign for a bevy of six magic users--it's gonna be interesting :-)

 

Cheers

Present home-port: home-brew BRP/OQ SRD variant; past ports-of-call: SB '81, RQIII '84, BGB '08, RQIV(Mythras) '12,  MW '15, and OQ '17

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Thanks again for the replies! I´m currently reading up on the rules for MW, ES and the d100 basic book. AS is on the list, but I´ll hopefully get around to it soon.

 

Since I´m not too familiar with d100 yet, would it make a huge difference if I were to go with a single sorcery skill or a separate skill for each and every spell?

 

I like the idea of a separate skill better, perhaps focusing on certain types of magic, but being somewhat useless when it comes to other spells, having a few signature spells that are almost always cast successfully, but still having a chance for failure most of the time. But not sure how that plays out in the long run. 

 

I´m especially concerned about the "mage" stretching his skill points too thinly if they are all separate.

 

When it comes to advancement, am I right when I think that it is not too hard to get a skill to a decent level, but it can be difficult to raise it when your getting close to 100% and above? With simply one skill, would it perhaps defeat the purpose of having a skill because its too easy to get it to 100%, or at least very close to 100% (I´m guessing this is the same as with weapons etc. but I have an idea of spells always being more uncertain and difficult to master). 

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Having a separate skill score for each spell is a good way to represent specialization for a sorcerer. Ie a "Frost Mage " or "Summoner" or "Healer", ect... The Only thing I have a problem with is that the sorcerer isn't as colorful as they could be using a one sorcery skill method.

What I mean is the sorcerer will have 1 or 2 spells they'll use a lot because of the better chances of success. In combat especially, you don't want spells to fail. The player will figure this out quickly and feel useless if he spends rounds casting spells to no effect while the other players get their butts kicked.

The skills themselves raise with successful use on the experience gain roll whenever you, the chronicler, decides to allow one. And Yes, the closer the skill is to 100% the harder it is to raise the %.

This method DOES seem more realistic. Why should a sorcerer automatically be a master at a newly found /discovered spell just because his or her Knowledge (sorcery) skill is 90%?

If I were to use individual spell skills I would make this change to character generation:

Since Magic World allows Sorcerers/priests/shamans to begin play with a certain number of spells they are considered proficient with, i would allow maybe an additional INT+POWx5(?) skill points to be used for spells alone with no skill allowed above 50%/75% depending on campaign starting power. I would also recommend the use of Aretes for spells over 100%.

Author QUASAR space opera system: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/459723/QUASAR?affiliate_id=810507

My Magic World projects page: Tooleys Underwhelming Projects

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I'm still somewhat surprised that the Corum sorcery rules didn't make it into Advanced Sorcery.

 

More than likely because, although Corum is a supplement for Elric! it wasn't a Chaosium-published book. It was produced by Darcsyde, and would require separate permissions from Liam Routt and Geoff Gillan, the publisher and author respectively.

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I run a high magic campaign and I use the Spell Knowledge skill from Classic Fantasy for the only skill that is needed to cast spells, plus whatever the magic point cost is. I really didn't like the basic spells in the book so I went with the spell list from Pathfinder and assigned a power point level of 1 for any spells that don't cause damage and 3 points for those that cause damage or heal damage.

 

So far it's worked well for my campaign. My one caveat is make sure that you are consistant with your game system rulings and whatever you allow the players to do, allow the NPCs to do as well.

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