Moon Design running Chaosium?

[seneschal]

I want Chaosium to survive and prosper.  I want RuneQuest 6 to sit alongside Gideon Bibles and phone books in every public venue.  May Glorantha become as familiar as Middle Earth and Narnia.  I just wish BRP and its associated books and monographs -- separate from either RuneQuest or Call of Cthulhu -- had had a chance to succeed.  It was barely distributed and weakly promoted.  Of course it didn't turn into a cash cow, no matter how good the quality was.

[Prime Evil]

The quality of the monographs varied considerably. Some of them were amazingly good. Others were not so great.

Looking at the past work of Moon Design and Design Mechanism, it is likely that the new Chaosium will value quality over quantity. I'm willing to bet that we'll see fewer releases, but the ones published will be larger and of a higher overall quality. Look at the Guide to Glorantha - absolutely amazing books (even though my kickstarter copy got damaged in shipping), but delivered very late.

It'll be interesting to see where it goes. I suspect that Kickstarter is going to still be vital to the survival of Chaosium, although we might see some smaller, more disciplined crowdfunding efforts to rebuild public confidence in the company.

[RosenMcStern]

I wanted to post "It is not dead what can eternal lie..." but I was scooped. Yet let me add that as long as there are cultists willing to burn out their sanity by reciting the Resistance Table 1d100 times under the light of a waxing moon, there still is hope that one day BR'Plyeh will rise from the Deep and mark the return of the Great Old Percentile to rule all gaming tables.

That said, I notice that:

1. it sounds like they want to do a new, Chaosium-branded RuneQuest and prioritize it over BRP. With Loz and Pete (and MOB) in the project, it will probably be something of excellent quality. Loz will be clearer about this point when he releases a TDM press announcement in the near future. I will remain tuned, and so should everyone.
2. No game system can be killed as long as there are fans willing to buy supplements and an applicable OGL. I can see several d100 OGLs around, and fans are anything but scarce if you accept the fact you are addressing a niche market. So folks, you are worried for what reason?

[NickMiddleton]

Paolo makes some good points.

I am however minded that my subjective impression of the successful RPG's of the last decade or so (Mongoose Traveller; Savage Worlds; Paizo's Pathfinder) and the the crop of recent games that seem to be doing remarkably well (D&D 5e; Monte Cook's Cypher; Green Ronin's AGE) all are either explicitly generic / setting free or at most strongly tied to one IP as a "default setting".

What exactly Chaosium are doing with BRP is currently unclear - but "killing it" (removing it from sale entirely) would be, in this day age, inexplicably stupid. Hasbro / WotC seem entirely relaxed about pretty much EVERY prior edition of D&D still being available (http://www.dndclassics.com/), along with huge volumes of support material for every prior edition, and they were late to the party compared to most publishers. Chaosium doing ANYTHING else would seem to me to be massively foolish. Keeping BRP (and any of its supplements they have suitable rights to) at least available via PDF (and potentially PoD as well) is a low overhead revenue stream that ALSO continues support for a segment of their current customer base that might otherwise stop spending money with them.

As for the rest? I care a LOT  about BRP and Magic World# and whilst I remain very fond of CoC and RQII/III I generally now run games that would have used those systems using the BRP BGB and options to suit. I've looked at RQ6 and CoC 7e and neither are to my taste. So if that's the direction Chaosium are heading in the future its quite likely I'll be buying significantly less of their products. Which is kind of sad, but these things happen.

Hopefully we will get more detailed information soon!

Cheers,

Nick

# I have a tiny, tiny stake in both (I had a BRP monograph published by Chaosium and I contributed to one of the Magic World supplements that's been released, and another that's in the works); I helped play test BRP and commented on Ben's manuscript for MW; I also ADORE the MW version of D100 / BRP - it's by far and away my favourite incarnation of the game I call BRP which I've been playing since the late 1970's in various guises and which is now the grammar my brain uses to express RPG ideas. Almost every game I run starts as a subset of the BRP BGB that looks VERY like Magic World and then has bits added or subtracted to suit...

[clarence]

I'm usually a positive person trying to see the good in things happening. Not this time.

I agree completely with Nick. Not keeping BRP alive through the BGB is a huge mistake. Even if it is only as a pdf and not updated to reflect changes within the gaming family, it can only be a good thing to keep it. A generic rules set is a great attractor for tweakers and DIY - perhaps a small but important customer base. FATE and Cypher are two excellent examples of why it matters.

Leave monographs to the small publishers and make it reasonably cheap to get a BRP license. That way "monographs" will be kept alive and from that torrent remarkable books can come, just as Paolo with Alephtar Games has proven. But for that to happen the BGB, I strongly believe, must be kept alive by Chaosium.

I too, like many here, have a tiny stake in this by writing for BRP. But let's turn the question around: Would I have written BRP Space if a generic rules set had not been available? Probably not.

Edit: We don't know yet about BGB, right? I'm hoping it will be kept in print...

Edited July 31, 2015 by clarence

[Prime Evil]

But there's so much fun in baseless speculation :)

I wonder if the revised RQ will be a streamlined version of RQ 6 that is newbie friendly and aimed at a broader market?

RQ 6 Essentials did pretty well. Just imagine a version of Magic World powered by RQ 6 Essentials...but still compatible with the full version of RQ 6 :)

There's no evidence that this is something being considered, but I do think an introductory work with an implicit campaign setting would be cool.

[Mankcam]

I really want to see RQ6 prosper +++ (we don't need a RQ 3.5 ), and there is no need for a RQ7 anytime soon.

I also want CoC 7E to prosper, although possibly with less radical new rules than in the PDFs (do we really need Characteristics expressed as a %?), and I want to see some version of a BRP BGB in print - I like the idea of a generic rule set which can plug in different genres

I think consolidation of these games under one banner may be a good thing, potentially a great thing given the recent publishing standards of Moon Design. 

I guess the main issue will be whether BRP continues as a core system, esp Magic World as it puts it at odds with RQ6 given they are both Fantasy orientated

[Prime Evil]

I am however minded that my subjective impression of the successful RPG's of the last decade or so (Mongoose Traveller; Savage Worlds; Paizo's Pathfinder) and the the crop of recent games that seem to be doing remarkably well (D&D 5e; Monte Cook's Cypher; Green Ronin's AGE) all are either explicitly generic / setting free or at most strongly tied to one IP as a "default setting".

I agree 100% with this. I think the decision to explicitly market RQ as a generic fantasy RPG was a smart move. I love Glorantha, but setting and game mechanics should be loosely coupled.

What exactly Chaosium are doing with BRP is currently unclear - but "killing it" (removing it from sale entirely) would be, in this day age, inexplicably stupid. Hasbro / WotC seem entirely relaxed about pretty much EVERY prior edition of D&D still being available (http://www.dndclassics.com/), along with huge volumes of support material for every prior edition, and they were late to the party compared to most publishers. Chaosium doing ANYTHING else would seem to me to be massively foolish. Keeping BRP (and any of its supplements they have suitable rights to) at least available via PDF (and potentially PoD as well) is a low overhead revenue stream that ALSO continues support for a segment of their current customer base that might otherwise stop spending money with them.

It's possible that they may be worried about over-fragmentation of the market. There are a LOT of d100 variants out there these days.

I suspect that BRP will continue to be sold (at least in PDF format), but active development may slow or stop.

As for the rest? I care a LOT  about BRP and Magic World# and whilst I remain very fond of CoC and RQII/III I generally now run games that would have used those systems using the BRP BGB and options to suit. I've looked at RQ6 and CoC 7e and neither are to my taste. So if that's the direction Chaosium are heading in the future its quite likely I'll be buying significantly less of their products. Which is kind of sad, but these things happen.

Personally, I'm looking for a d100 game somewhere between OpenQuest / Renaissance and RQ 6 / Legend in complexity. 

[lawrence.whitaker]

This is just pure speculation but maybe Chaosium's Runequest will be based on Magic World core system with one tweak here and there (I guess the will remove the resistance table at least) and Golanthara fluff back in the text  

 

Again, just speculation. 

The new RQ will be RQ6 set in Glorantha just as RQ2 was. Same system, different emphasis, firm setting. Sorry, but it won't be Magic World based.

[cjbowser]

I was at the panel. A near quote is that BRP is less than 10% of total sales, so it is not a priority at this time. There are also no plans to merge it with CoC 7 or another line. HQ and RQ will remain as they are.

[Chaot]

I was at the panel. A near quote is that BRP is less than 10% of total sales, so it is not a priority at this time. There are also no plans to merge it with CoC 7 or another line. HQ and RQ will remain as they are.

did they say anything about MW?

[RosenMcStern]

The new RQ will be RQ6 set in Glorantha just as RQ2 was. Same system, different emphasis, firm setting. Sorry, but it won't be Magic World based.

I could not be more in agreement with this move than I already am. Not only does this parallel the HeroQuest line with HQ2 and HQ:iG, but it really presents RQ6 as a "Fantasy for all tastes" line. You want it like the old glorious RQ2 with weird cults and kickass runelords? Here it is, the Chaosium edition. You want it gritty in the fantasy earth and Conan tradition? Here it is, the TDM edition. A RQ version for every taste. What else could you want, folks?

[cjbowser]

did they say anything about MW?

 It was lumped in with BRP. The question asked by the audience specifically called out MW, but the answer was generalized to BRP.

Also, regarding monographs, it was said that if it was good enough to become a full distro book, it would happen eventually. Otherwise, it's gone. Greg said collectors should move quickly. 

[Chaot]

 What else could you want, folks?

Magic World.

[Mankcam]

The new RQ will be RQ6 set in Glorantha just as RQ2 was. Same system, different emphasis, firm setting. Sorry, but it won't be Magic World based.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear!

[smiorgan]

Hi fellow BRP fans,

I think that Chaosium are taking the most reasonable direction as a business and as a steward of a creative heritage. And I think so despite some of my personal gaming preferences.

1. I quite like Magic World. It's a great ruleset which further improves on the already excellent Elric! rules and The Southern Reaches is a beautiful little setting.

BUT I also feel that it deserved better than the lacklustre presentation it got in the corebook and Advanced Sorcery books. Contentwise these are very good books, but they deserved better art, better layout and additional proofreading. Magic World  also needed quickstart rules that actually made sense (the adventure in the MW quickstart is very nice, but the rules don't make sense). 

2. I like the BRP Big Gold Book, and I think that Mythic Iceland for BRP is a masterpiece. I like my resistance table.

BUT I also think that the production schedule of BRP in the last seven years or so had no rhyme nor reason. The game has no identity nor recognition except for the small community of excellent folks posting here. There has been little innovation, with some of the most interesting products not adequately supported (Chronicles of Future Earth, Classic Fantasy and Mythic Iceland deserved better!) 

3. I don't think CoC 7 needed most of its quirky innovations. A CoC 7 based on BRP would have been better for me.

BUT still, CoC 7 is a perfectly functional game and 90% of CoC players don't care about BRP. I've played the "Alone Against the Flames" solo and it feels...well.. exactly as an old CoC solo. The new books will probably be very beautiful and the number of backers shows how popular CoC is. 

4. I do think RQ6 is slightly too rules-heavy and I would have liked it to be more similar to my beloved RQ3.

BUT I can see very well it is a very consistent and inspired game, faithful to the RuneQuest heritage in many ways, full of nice touches (e.g. passions from Pendragon), clearly written, beautifully produced and magnificently supported. And who does not want a Gloranthan RuneQuest supplement to go back to the Borderlands and Balazar??? 

IN SUM, Chaosium is and will be remembered as the company that brought Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest and Glorantha to the world. Connoisseurs will add the magnificent Pendragon and the immensely fun Stormbringer to this list. It's clear that developing these brands (those that are still owned) is the way to go from a business viewpoint, but also from a creative one. 'In search of the Trollslayer', 'Devil Gulch', 'Astounding Adventures', 'Blood Tide' were nice, but they did not make history. 'The Magic Book' is better left forgotten. And perhaps the 'Liber Ka' did not need reappearing as 'Enlightened Magic'.

I will be happy if the BGB BRP remains in print and if Magic World finds its niche as a rules-light, introductory fantasy game addressing a younger audience. Maybe paired with a fast and furious Superworld game. But maybe in the long run it will be better business to bring these rulesets closer to Rune Quest. 

To tell it all, I will miss a fast-paced Stormbringer/ Hawkmoon/ Corum game. But that's very hard to revive.

Go Chaosium!

Smiorgan

(I posted a similar message on Tom Zunder's Tavern)

 

Edited July 31, 2015 by smiorgan

[smiorgan]

The new RQ will be RQ6 set in Glorantha just as RQ2 was. Same system, different emphasis, firm setting. Sorry, but it won't be Magic World based.

Great! I especially like the "just as RQ2 was" bit, if it's indicative of the spirit.

RQ6 is a damn fine game and very apt to capture the Gloranthan feeling. I'd just love to see options/ advice for simpler and faster combat in the new book for those who are not inclined to bring the full depth of RQ6 combat to the table.

 

  

[AJ The Ronin]

After sleeping on this I have 3 questions (I have no idea if the MD team post here):

 

1. Once the CoC kickstarter is fulfilled they plan to keep supporting 7e?

2. Are Ben, Mike and Dusting still with the company?

3. When the Golanthara and Runequest products will be on Chaosium store?

[tooley1chris]

I only recently discovered the joys of BRP and the gooey goodness of Magic World and would be sad to see all production stop on these but... honestly support for these has been lackluster since my introduction a couple years ago. 1 product released for MW since ...?, errata for books basically ignored for quite awhile, ect,ect...

Guess my point is I love BRP and am likely to continue playing this system (and MW) over anything else as I can't imagine anything I'd enjoy more. It's my square peg in my square hole. 

Fan created material will continue to flow as the fans continue to create it. Everything I've created for MW is because I needed /wanted it for my own campaigns. I post it here because I love the game and want others to love it as well. 

That isn't likely to change regardless. 

I love what NickMiddleton typed above.

Edited July 31, 2015 by tooley1chris

[Sunwolfe]

The dude abides and that which does not kill us...

[Aelwyn]

Although I am a very long time supporter of BRP, I feel lucky that I found an other generic RPG system that feels similar to BRP and is currently highly supported by the company with good quality products.

Just out of curiosity, pansophy, what is that system?

I have very mixed feelings. I have a lot of love for Chaosium, dating back to 1980, and I think this is a good business direction for them. Two flagship products (CoC and RQ) is better than one flagship and a struggling product (BRP). 

But dammit--I've wasted thousands of hours writing two pieces that I wanted to submit as BRP monographs. That seems extremely unlikely to happen now.

[Sunwolfe]

Aelwyn,

"...wasted..." is a relative term--as far as Chaosium's blessing and marginal profits are concerned, you might be right, but I can think of a whole forum of discerning and appreciative BRP/MW fans who wouldn't call your time wasted 

[Aelwyn]

 

Aelwyn,

"...wasted..." is a relative term--as far as Chaosium's blessing and marginal profits are concerned, you might be right, but I can think of a whole forum of discerning and appreciative BRP/MW fans who wouldn't call your time wasted 

Right... and I'm considering that now as one of several avenues to publishing still remaining. Might even be the best avenue--I could publish it in serial fashion, get feedback, and do updates at no real cost except my own time--which I wasn't going to get paid for in any case.

Thanks for that, Sunwolfe. 

[Zit]

But there's so much fun in baseless speculation

I wonder if the revised RQ will be a streamlined version of RQ 6 that is newbie friendly and aimed at a broader market?

RQ 6 Essentials did pretty well. Just imagine a version of Magic World powered by RQ 6 Essentials...but still compatible with the full version of RQ 6

There's no evidence that this is something being considered, but I do think an introductory work with an implicit campaign setting would be cool.
 

Perhaps RQ6 essentials can be considered as a kind of BRP of the next generation ?

[Baron]

So Chaosium now consists of RQ6/HQ Glorantha, and CoC 7^th ed. I've been mulling over my feelings, and I've come to a conclusion.

 

I don't play RQ6. I prefer less crunchy games, and I'm delighted to continue playing RQ2, which I've been doing since at least 1980.

 

I don't play HQ. With great trepidation, wanting to support Gloranthan gaming, I bought the deluxe HW set when it first came out, and was hugely disappointed. I have a big chip on my shoulder over Robin Laws as a result. Probably misdirected, I guess it should be against Greg, but there's enough of a chip to share.

 

I've been playing Call of Cthulhu since it came out. My father introduced me to Cthulhu in the 60's, Lovecraft was one of his favorite authors. But I won't be using the 7^th edition, I'm incredibly opposed to its changes. Unpleasant feelings now snowballing regarding the Chaosium games I've loved.

 

I've loved the Stormbringer rpg since it was first published, and was a fan of the Elric novels since the early 70's; but this rpg is no longer a Chaosium product line.

 

I bought the Thieves World products as they came out, but they're no longer a Chaosium product line.

 

I have Worlds of Wonder, and the BGB, and monographs, all are now cut loose.

 

What is there left about Chaosium that I might like? Oh, they just put Moon Design in charge. Moon Design, whose business model seems to consist of presenting a Glorantha that is very much at odds with the version originally presented to us way back when I became a fan. This is really a significant negative for me.

 

So, to summarize. I've been a fan and customer since the early, early days. My Cthulhu is gone, my Runequest is gone, and now the entire BRP collection of “other” games has been packed away.

 

I guess we're done, Chaosium. You no longer have anything to offer me. It's over, and it's a damned shame. But since I decided to stop buying Dungeons and Dragons products altogether in 1989, I suppose I'll survive this too.