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New RQ Designer Notes - Part 4


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32 minutes ago, skoll said:

I like it. It makes rune magic more usable while keeping an element of sacrifice to it.

I assume sacrificing your POW decreases it for good. Will there be means to increase it apart from the normal method of increasing stats?

in RuneQuest, POW is the only stat with a check box. You aren't expected to raise INT or SIZ, and raising STR or CON is time- (and gold) consuming.

POW on the other hand is supposed to be an elevator stat, expected to go up and down as more and more permanent magic is created (in case of Rune Magic this is enchanting your magical link to the cult entity ever stronger).

Personally, I think there have to be more occasions to earn POW checks than just overcoming a passive POW on the resistance table with your active (temporary) POW. That only happens when you use offensive magic (basically, this is limited to Demoralize, Befuddle and Disrupt) or initiate spirit combat (which you can't unless you're a discorporate shaman). Taking an active role in a holy day worship was suggested as another way to gain a check, or simply participating (sacrificing all temporary POW but one) in a High Holy Day rite.

For the POW gain, you used to need to roll with percentile dice above 100% minus five times the difference between your current and your (species, or species plus priest bonus) max. I think this win once, lose once result requirement is supposed to keep the chance of getting an experience check plus getting the ability raise out of it about constant.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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7 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

Oh, and another thing: there should be a cap to the amount of POW that a PC of a certain level (lay/initiate/runeleve/priest) can sacrifice for RPs.

If you have a character who is preparing for a major quest or activity, allowing for huge sacrifices seems right to me. I've had PCs prepare for months of game time for just a single event and good for them they did.

If it takes more than 5 minutes to understand, it's not basic.

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5 hours ago, Jeff said:

Thanatari heads work the same way as always. They can continue to cast Rune spells until they run out of Rune points (making effectively each spell one use), as they cannot replenish Rune Points.

 

As the Thanatari has "incorporated" a part of the original person, raped the world of it's life/power, then I could see the Thanatari's rune power supplying the strength to continue to use the spells of Major Heads at least. Essentially the spells of Create Head fashion from the living person a still living Powered Crystal from which the Thanatari can drain/draw knowledge and power.

 

After all, wasn't that the basis of Thanatar.

Edited by charlesvajr
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If it takes more than 5 minutes to understand, it's not basic.

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14 hours ago, charlesvajr said:

This Rune Magic system seems like an expanded, formulaic if you will, Divine Intervention system. Will Divine Intervention, as a spell or an action, continue to exist?

Absolutely! Chance of Divine Intervention is equal to the character's POW + current RP on d100.

If the DI is successful, the character loses the number rolled in POW plus all their current Rune Points. However, these RPs do reduce the POW cost of the DI.

For example, at the commencement of a battle Coriander Before-Whom-Even-The-Crimson-Bat-Trembles has a POW 17 and 9 Rune Points. During the fight he casts 6 points of rune magic, leaving him with 3 RPs. But things go catastrophically for his side, and he decides to call on Orlanth for Divine Intervention ("Orlanth get me out of here!"). At this precise moment, his chance of DI is 20% (POW 17 + 3 current RP). His player rolls 14 - success! Orlanth whisks Coriander away to safety on a divine wind, but he immediately loses 14 points of POW and all his current Rune Points. But he gets to add back 3 POW due to his RPs, leaving him with a new POW of 06. He also now has no RPs until they can be regained at the next holy day. At least he's alive.

Edited by MOB
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14 minutes ago, MOB said:

Absolutely! Chance of Divine Intervention is equal to the character's POW + current RP on d100.

If the DI is successful, the character loses the number rolled in POW plus all their current Rune Points. However, these RPs do reduce the POW cost of the DI.

For example, at the commencement of a battle Coriander Before-Whom-Even-The-Crimson-Bat-Trembles has a POW 17 and 9 Rune Points. During the fight he casts 6 points of rune magic, leaving him with 3 RPs. But things go catastrophically for his side, and he decides to call on Orlanth for Divine Intervention ("Orlanth get me out of here!"). At this precise moment, his chance of DI is 20% (POW 17 + 3 current RP). His player rolls 14 - success! Orlanth whisks Coriander away to safety on a divine wind, but he immediately loses 14 points of POW and all his current Rune Points. But he gets to add back 3 POW due to his RPs, leaving him with a new POW of 06. He also now has no RPs until they can be regained at the next holy day. At least he's alive.

Missing the roll, I assume means that the DI fails, no POW lost, but what about the remaining RP? Also, what if the roll equals POW + RP; action occurs but the character doesn't make it?

SDLeary

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9 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

Missing the roll, I assume means that the DI fails, no POW lost, but what about the remaining RP? Also, what if the roll equals POW + RP; action occurs but the character doesn't make it?

SDLeary

Missing the roll, no POW lost, no RP lost. The God just didn't deign to notice. 

If the roll equals POW + RP - just like in RQ2, the character's soul becomes a spirit in the service of the god, but the requested effect still occurs. So, in the example above, if Coriander's player rolled a 20, his body would be still be whisked to safety, but Coriander's soul is taken to Orlanth. RQ2 gives a similar example with Oshkosh the Odorous (p.55)

Edited by MOB
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1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Ok, so my rune priest has 18 POW and 12 rune points, and rolls a 7 on DI. What does he have afterwards?

18 POW no rune points?

18 POW 5 rune points?

 

I should have said that the explanation for DI I provided above is just for initiates.

An initiate would end up with 18 POW  and no rune points.

A Rune Priest would end up with 18 POW and 5 rune points. 

A Rune Lord would also end up with 18 POW and 5 rune points, but they don't roll for Divine Intervention on d100 like initiates and priests.

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I really like this idea of Rune Magic, it works well for Glorantha. I'm assuming this replaces Divine Magic/Theism, or will ALL higher magic be Rune Magic, just with different approaches/trappings? (ie: animistic, theistic, sorcerous, etc)

I wonder how does this fit with the Malkioni?

Also I assume that there will also be some form of lower magic covering cantrips/utility level charms, like there always has been.

Regarding such, I just hope that it isn't named Battle Magic like in RQ2, as this does not fit with a large number of non-combat orientated powers. Likewise RQ3's Spirit Magic was also not a great fit for flavour for some cultures. MRQ/Legend has a better title in my opinion, calling it 'Common Magic'. However I think I prefer 'Basic Magic', which was actually the title of the chapter in RQ2 that contained the Battle Magic spells.

If there is some form of Basic Magic, I am wondering if the Runes have any influence at this level, or are they just for casting the more powerful magic?

Edited by Mankcam
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" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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17 hours ago, TRose said:

 I guess Im in the minority as I never liked the idea you needed to go to a large Temple to renew/get certain spells as it almost forces player to join the larger cults of their area.  For example if you want to be an Ax maiden of Babeestor Gor in a Pavis campaign there are no temple that I know of listed in either Pavis or Sun Country for Babeestor Gor in either place and you  are stuck to shrines in other Earth Temples for spells. So you have to travel to the Paps( IF there a temple there) while the Orlanthi just has to walk across the street to renew his spells.

  Perhaps we could have major temple set up to patheons instead of individual deities so a Worshipper of Heler and or Vinga could renew their spells at the Orlanth temple instead of having to travel to  a specific temple dedicated to them.

That's what shrines are for.

If you have a Babeester Gor worshipper then the local Ernalda Temple will have a Babeester Gor shrine that provides some basic spells. For more specialised magic you need to go to a shrine for a specific subcult/aspect or to a larger temple. A good-sized Orlanth tremple will have a shrine to Heler and Vinga, even smaller ones have a Shrine to the Thunder Brothers that gives access to some of their spells.

It made no sense for me that all Orlanth temples gave you access to all Orlanth spells. Breaking down by Aspect makes it more manageable, so Orlanth Thunderous temples don't give access to Orlanth Adventurous spells, for example.

 

 

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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13 hours ago, charlesvajr said:

As the Thanatari has "incorporated" a part of the original person, raped the world of it's life/power, then I could see the Thanatari's rune power supplying the strength to continue to use the spells of Major Heads at least. Essentially the spells of Create Head fashion from the living person a still living Powered Crystal from which the Thanatari can drain/draw knowledge and power.

 

After all, wasn't that the basis of Thanatar.

Exactly, that's how I play it. Thanatar has ripped the magic from the god and a Thanatar cultist can repray stolen spells at a Thanatar temple. Imagine the spell itself as being a matrix of some kind, all you are doing is refiling the matrix with divine power, once the matrix has been set it can just be refilled. So, a Thanatar Head with Flight, for example, has, by virtue of the original enchantment, taken the Flight divine/runespell matrix and fixed it to Thanatar, so the Flight spell can be reprayed at a Thanatar temple.

It makes Thanatar priests very powerful and versatile.

 

 

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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21 minutes ago, soltakss said:

It made no sense for me that all Orlanth temples gave you access to all Orlanth spells. Breaking down by Aspect makes it more manageable, so Orlanth Thunderous temples don't give access to Orlanth Adventurous spells, for example.

 

 

I found it all a bit fiddly having different city temples dedicated to different aspects of the deities.

I did encourage Priests to specialise in a particular aspect however, so for Orlanth I did have Thunderous Priests, Rex Priests, etc. So a character had to not only dedicate POW to the Deity, but also appeal to a particular Priest if they wanted their spell specialty.

I did have particular holy sites that were more potent in particular aspects of a deity, and that aspect's powers were stronger at that location - sometimes a shrine or temple may also be built at the site, and the Priests there would predominantly be associated with that particular aspect of the deity. 

I guess it played out more or less the same, but it just made it a little easier that standard city temples catered for all aspects of the deity.

Edited by Mankcam
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" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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3 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Regarding such, I just hope that it isn't named Battle Magic like in RQ2, as this does not fit with a large number of non-combat orientated powers. Likewise RQ3's Spirit Magic was almost not a great fit for flavour for some cultures. MRQ/Legend has a better title in my opinion, calling it 'Common Magic'. However I think I prefer 'Basic Magic', which was actually the title of the chapter in RQ2 that contained the Battle Magic spells.

I think it was OQ2 or Legend which proposed calling them "Heroic Feats" or some such: that way a PC who didn't want to use "magic" could take some of the "feats" and reimagine them as non-magical heroic abilities. There was no mechanical difference, just a descriptive difference.

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"This is preposterous! Must we welcome each scoundrel of time into our midst, to satiate himself on our good things, meanwhile perverting our customs?"
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3 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Regarding such, I just hope that it isn't named Battle Magic like in RQ2, as this does not fit with a large number of non-combat orientated powers. Likewise RQ3's Spirit Magic was almost not a great fit for flavour for some cultures. MRQ/Legend has a better title in my opinion, calling it 'Common Magic'. However I think I prefer 'Basic Magic', which was actually the title of the chapter in RQ2 that contained the Battle Magic spells.

I think it was OQ2 or Legend which proposed calling them "Heroic Feats" or some such: that way a PC who didn't want to use "magic" could take some of the "feats" and reimagine them as non-magical heroic abilities. There was no mechanical difference, just a descriptive difference.

"This is preposterous! Must we welcome each scoundrel of time into our midst, to satiate himself on our good things, meanwhile perverting our customs?"
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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44 minutes ago, Rhialto the Marvellous said:

I think it was OQ2 or Legend which proposed calling them "Heroic Feats" or some such: that way a PC who didn't want to use "magic" could take some of the "feats" and reimagine them as non-magical heroic abilities. There was no mechanical difference, just a descriptive difference.

You could certainly use them as a Talent/Feat system, and that was a good suggestion from OQ; quite good for a general fantasy setting. However as RuneQuest will be firmly tied to Glorantha once again then I assume that that they will be presented as low powered Basic Magic as opposed to Heroic Feats.

Edited by Mankcam

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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In Glorantha, the term "Heroic Feats" would lead to the assumption that this was an ability gained by heroquesting.

But then, few Gloranthan characters would think of any ability as unrelated to magic. Things like the ki-skills in RQ3 Land of Ninja would be little else but a peculiar form of sorcery using the perfect execution of a mundane ability instead of a spoken spell. The body of maneuvers of a martial arts school may be regarded as a grimoire. The art of carving a beast-shaped figurehead for a pirate ship may be a form of sorcery. Many a craft may contain elements of sorcery - knowledge applied to achieve a certain result. But then, many a craft may call an appropriate spirit to inhabit the object.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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This looks pretty good. 

As far as temple go, instead of limiting what you could learn, temples might affect how fast you could regain RPs. Prehaps something like 1 point/week at a small temple, 2 for a medium, and 3 for a big (or especial holy) one. Or maybe the temple could give a boost to the casting roll for a particular spell? 

I wonder how allied cults work now. Does a worshiper automatically get access to the spells of a allied cult, or does he sacrifice to get RPS in the associated cult? 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

Oh, and another thing: there should be a cap to the amount of POW that a PC of a certain level (lay/initiate/runeleve/priest) can sacrifice for RPs.

Why?

In RQ2/3 there wan't a limit nor was one needed. Characters were usually "restricted" by the vulnerability inherent in having a low POW. And I suspect some of the more powerful spells are probably not reusable.

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1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Why?

In RQ2/3 there wan't a limit nor was one needed. Characters were usually "restricted" by the vulnerability inherent in having a low POW. And I suspect some of the more powerful spells are probably not reusable.

In my experience in a long RQ3 campaign, the POW gain system obviously rewarded players who are lucky with their dice. So I had this humakti with POW 15 or 16 who would only sacrifice POW whenever he got an increase (by ilogically casting Disruption/Demoralise in combats until he got the check) and the last time we played he had between 15 and 20 "runic points" (because we used this mechanic, only we called them "faith points"), and he even wasn't a Sword of Humakt! He was just an initiate.

So, even if lucky players are not the norm in your campaigns, why would you like to leave to chance how quickly do the PCs advance in magical power?

I think that the system presented in RQ6, where you exchange experience rolls for new spells, avoids the situation in which an unlucky player always ends up being magically inferior to her luckier comrades.

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1 minute ago, Runeblogger said:

So, even if lucky players are not the norm in your campaigns, why would you like to leave to chance how quickly do the PCs advance in magical power?

Because how quickly do the PCs advanced in non-magical power in RQ was left to chance. So why would you single out magical power?

I dislike the method used in MRQ where advancement rolls are doled out as some sort of reward system by the GM. That's too D&D ish for me. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, MOB said:

Absolutely! Chance of Divine Intervention is equal to the character's POW + current RP on d100.

If the DI is successful, the character loses the number rolled in POW plus all their current Rune Points. However, these RPs do reduce the POW cost of the DI.

For example, at the commencement of a battle Coriander Before-Whom-Even-The-Crimson-Bat-Trembles has a POW 17 and 9 Rune Points. During the fight he casts 6 points of rune magic, leaving him with 3 RPs. But things go catastrophically for his side, and he decides to call on Orlanth for Divine Intervention ("Orlanth get me out of here!"). At this precise moment, his chance of DI is 20% (POW 17 + 3 current RP). His player rolls 14 - success! Orlanth whisks Coriander away to safety on a divine wind, but he immediately loses 14 points of POW and all his current Rune Points. But he gets to add back 3 POW due to his RPs, leaving him with a new POW of 06. He also now has no RPs until they can be regained at the next holy day. At least he's alive.

Very interesting.

But what if the player asks his god to kill an enemy? Is there going to be a numerical value attached to the quality of a god's response in this case? (I hope there is. IMHO it should be somehow related to how strictly the initiate follows his god's doctrines. For example, never lying for humakti even if they don't have that geas).

Read my Runeblog about RuneQuest and Glorantha at: http://elruneblog.blogspot.com.es/

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