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New Partnership for Gloranthan Miniatures and Skirmish Wargames Rules


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19 minutes ago, Yinkin said:

Contrary to some other posters I do NOT wish for a ruleset that specifically links with the RQ rules. RuneQuest is a great rpg, but for a minis skirmish game you want something faster that creates interesting small battles! I have played some such, Confrontation and Bushido being two favourites, although I have not tried Outbreak! The important thing is that it is a good, interesting and tactical set of skirmish rules!

I do echo the comments about the models, though! Orlanthi is a good beginning, and I think they are and should be unique enough that you would want them rather any old barbarian mini with a rune on the shield. Praxian beastriders, I agree very much with! They are a very characterful culture that works excellently as foes to the orlanthi!

You misunderstand.

I'm not asking for the skirmish rules to be RQ, but I'd like there to be a conceptual LINK between the two, so that porting characters from the RPG into a skirmish (and vice versa) is relatively easy.

Obviously, the POINT of a skirmish rule set is something that's far more abbreviated, quicker, and succinct than full-out RQ combat.

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On 6/7/2016 at 10:56 PM, styopa said:

You misunderstand.

I'm not asking for the skirmish rules to be RQ, but I'd like there to be a conceptual LINK between the two, so that porting characters from the RPG into a skirmish (and vice versa) is relatively easy.

Obviously, the POINT of a skirmish rule set is something that's far more abbreviated, quicker, and succinct than full-out RQ combat.

This. Something like the reverse of what happened with Warhammer: when they did the (original) RPG they maintained a resemblance that made porting character from the miniature game to the rpg (and vice versa) relatively simple. 

Edited by smiorgan
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  • 1 month later...

"Oh look a Viking....No it's not it has horns...Vikings don't have horns. I thought Orlanthi looked more like Mycenaean these days....Shut up it's cool."

My internal dialogue when i saw the figure.

Edited by Iskallor
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7 hours ago, Iskallor said:

"Oh look a Viking....No it's not it has horns...Vikings don't have horns. I thought Orlanthi looked more like Mycenaean these days....Shut up it's cool."

My internal dialogue when i saw the figure.

LOL. That mirrors exactly my thoughts as well! I won't protest old school Orlanthi especially if they come with Alynxes. Great memories of my alynxes in the Dorastor campaign...

 

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8 hours ago, Pentallion said:

I'm happy they're doing the miniatures, but...they need to be schooled for this one.  Bronze Age.  It's not in the Middle Ages.

Please sit down with them and have the talk.  Thanks.

First, you may want to review the the Veksø horned helmets, from the later Bronze Age (ca. 1100-900 BC)

dfd02e0aa6a9f237a8cba9041b55a5c3.jpg

 

In any case...I'm not sure it's quite so cut and dried as you imply.  This keeps getting tossed around because the source material's pretty flippin' unclear and keeps using the term 'it's a bronze age world' as a shorthand.

According to RQ2:

(text)

"...Glorantha is an ancient period and early Dark Ages World..."

(addenda)

"Technological Base - Glorantha is a Bronze Age world.  This general statement is meant to illustrate the social development and cultural level of most of the people in the world.  In addition, the prevalent metal in use there as many propertiessimilar to our own bronze.

Bronze is used throughout RuneQuest to refer to the terrestrial metal to which it is most similar.  However, Glorantha bronze can be mined directly from the ground, and has some properties dissimilar from our earthly metal."

So in fact, Glorantha is only 'bronze age' in a general technological sense.

Clearly, Glorantha is NOT exclusively a Bronze Age world: crossbows, greatswords, rapiers - are all grossly anachronistic in a "bronze age" setting, and nigh-impossible to usefully make with bronze (although, conceivably, a bronze-age crossbow could be made mostly from wood).  This of course excepts Mostali tech as a known-aberration from the norm.

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14 hours ago, Iskallor said:

I think Gloranthan Rapiers are the Bronze age type not the fencing type and crossbows date back to 6th century BC. Plus magic makes it pretty easy to make compared to our world.

(shrug) could be true.  If so, however, I find very little difference between "Bronze age rapier" and a RQ2 Shortsword/RQ3 Gladius: 

(bronze age rapier)

IMG_4607a.jpg

Certainly not enough to justify their significantly different stats?:
(RQ2) Shortsword:

Min Str: none, Min Dex: none, dmg 1d6+1, price 25, enc: 0.6, SR 3

(RQ2) Rapier

Min Str: 7, Min Dex: 13, dmg 1d6+1, price 100, enc: 1.2, SR 2

Nah, while your assertion is certainly plausible, I think a simpler explanation is that the RQ2 rapier is just that, a rapier in the more common vernacular usage.

And while yes, "xbows" as a thing certainly existed since the 6th century, I'd be hard-pressed to find pre-medieval hand-carried "heavy crossbows" and "arbalests".  Maybe you know more about them than I do, certainly?

Again, I think it's far simpler to conceptualize that RQ2 was (in today's parlance) an indie-level project (as were most RPGs of the time) and nobody gave much of a crap about meticulous anthropological consistency...it was about what was going to be fun.  Trying to use such original stuff as a justificatory exegetical 'exclusion zone' about what is and isn't canon is a very modern retcon to what RPGs essentially were in 1979 and imo as an approach, deeply flawed.  

To the original point - calling out the miniatures maker for some failure to confirm to an asserted authenticity, well, that's a pretty modern internetty thing too.  I think it's a cool miniature, and I'm delighted SOMEONE's making Glorantha/RQ miniatures at all?

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2 hours ago, styopa said:

To the original point - calling out the miniatures maker for some failure to confirm to an asserted authenticity, well, that's a pretty modern internetty thing too.  I think it's a cool miniature, and I'm delighted SOMEONE's making Glorantha/RQ miniatures at all?

Well, if all you want is a Medieval Viking, there are plenty of those already in existence.  A couple air runes hardly qualify it as a Gloranthan miniature.

Let's not talk RQ2, we've got Guide to Glorantha now.  Does that look like an Orlanthi out of GtG?  No, it does not.

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4 hours ago, styopa said:

(shrug) could be true.  If so, however, I find very little difference between "Bronze age rapier" and a RQ2 Shortsword/RQ3 Gladius: 

(bronze age rapier)

IMG_4607a.jpg

Certainly not enough to justify their significantly different stats?:
(RQ2) Shortsword:

Min Str: none, Min Dex: none, dmg 1d6+1, price 25, enc: 0.6, SR 3

(RQ2) Rapier

Min Str: 7, Min Dex: 13, dmg 1d6+1, price 100, enc: 1.2, SR 2

Nah, while your assertion is certainly plausible, I think a simpler explanation is that the RQ2 rapier is just that, a rapier in the more common vernacular usage.

And while yes, "xbows" as a thing certainly existed since the 6th century, I'd be hard-pressed to find pre-medieval hand-carried "heavy crossbows" and "arbalests".  Maybe you know more about them than I do, certainly?

Again, I think it's far simpler to conceptualize that RQ2 was (in today's parlance) an indie-level project (as were most RPGs of the time) and nobody gave much of a crap about meticulous anthropological consistency...it was about what was going to be fun.  Trying to use such original stuff as a justificatory exegetical 'exclusion zone' about what is and isn't canon is a very modern retcon to what RPGs essentially were in 1979 and imo as an approach, deeply flawed.  

To the original point - calling out the miniatures maker for some failure to confirm to an asserted authenticity, well, that's a pretty modern internetty thing too.  I think it's a cool miniature, and I'm delighted SOMEONE's making Glorantha/RQ miniatures at all?

Many Bronze Age rapiers are much thinner than that, much closer in width to what would come later in the Renaissance, though they do flare as you get towards the hilt. Shortswords have a much much broader blade.

SDLeary

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9 hours ago, styopa said:

 

 

And while yes, "xbows" as a thing certainly existed since the 6th century, I'd be hard-pressed to find pre-medieval hand-carried "heavy crossbows" and "arbalests".  Maybe you know more about them than I do, certainly?

I know it's Glorantha and magic and a fantasy world and stuff. The Dwarves make canons and Fire arms too....

Plus the Rapier thing has come up loads over the years. 

Clanking city? Hardly Bronze age. You get my drift. Magic and fantasy and stuff :P

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10 hours ago, Iskallor said:

I know it's Glorantha and magic and a fantasy world and stuff. The Dwarves make canons and Fire arms too....

Plus the Rapier thing has come up loads over the years. 

Clanking city? Hardly Bronze age. You get my drift. Magic and fantasy and stuff :P

It's one of the fundamental reasons people enjoy Glorantha so much - it can literally be anything without having to adhere to some faux-Medievalist (or worse, Tolkienesque*) canon.

*I say this not because I dislike Tolkien at all, it's just ground that so bloody many RPGs have trod (trodden?) so many times before.  

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15 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Many Bronze Age rapiers are much thinner than that, much closer in width to what would come later in the Renaissance, though they do flare as you get towards the hilt. Shortswords have a much much broader blade.

SDLeary

I didn't honestly even know there WERE bronze-age things called rapiers until I was doing research to reply to this thread.  And then was wrong-footed as my entire point was to say "it's not that much different from a gladius" (my canon is RQ3) only to double check before posting and note that RQ2 didn't call it a gladius, RQ2 called it a shortsword. :/

If you could point (ha ha) me in the direction of good information on the topic? I'm interested.  

Are you saying that they were more like (and used comparably to) a more-or-less-hiltless poignard?  The wiki for "rapier" doesn't even concede the USE of the word before 1500, and confines itself to a fairly narrow clade of weapons.  I see things like "The Bronze Age Rapier" by Malloy, but honestly, the applicability of the word "rapier" in that context utterly escapes me?  Sure, if your use of the word 'rapier' is "one handed sword with a narrow blade used for thrusting", hell that could even apply to a gladius, but I would imagine most people would agree that's NOT a rapier?

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11 hours ago, styopa said:

I didn't honestly even know there WERE bronze-age things called rapiers until I was doing research to reply to this thread.  And then was wrong-footed as my entire point was to say "it's not that much different from a gladius" (my canon is RQ3) only to double check before posting and note that RQ2 didn't call it a gladius, RQ2 called it a shortsword. :/

If you could point (ha ha) me in the direction of good information on the topic? I'm interested.  

Are you saying that they were more like (and used comparably to) a more-or-less-hiltless poignard?  The wiki for "rapier" doesn't even concede the USE of the word before 1500, and confines itself to a fairly narrow clade of weapons.  I see things like "The Bronze Age Rapier" by Malloy, but honestly, the applicability of the word "rapier" in that context utterly escapes me?  Sure, if your use of the word 'rapier' is "one handed sword with a narrow blade used for thrusting", hell that could even apply to a gladius, but I would imagine most people would agree that's NOT a rapier?

Here is a brief survey of bronze to iron age swords. Some reproductions. And a Museum pic from Swordforum.com. As to how they were used... who knows. Its assumed as a primarily thrusting weapon, but as to use as a weapon of war, or a dueling weapon as later rapiers who knows.  As many opponents were probably ill armored save for a shield, I suppose cutting as well. Some of the Mycenaean ones could get pretty long.

As to applying "rapier" to a gladius, I suppose you could. Some later specimens come in with blades under 2" in width. And then there is the original Spatha that this will be based on. 

The phenomena of bronze age rapiers though does seem to be predominantly Minoan and Mycenaean. Most inland blades seem to follow a leaf pattern.

SDLeary

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13 hours ago, SDLeary said:

As to applying "rapier" to a gladius, I suppose you could. Some later specimens come in with blades under 2" in width. And then there is the original Spatha that this will be based on. 

Your point is well taken, and thanks to Nick J's posted videos on the subject, I feel far more informed on the subject, thank you.  On a tangent: Curious that the dirk has no tang at all?

Going back to the minutiae of which "rapier" is represented by the RQ weapon list (the Bronze Age thing called a "rapier" by archaeologists, or the late-Medieval thing more widely recognized as a "rapier"), I'd still say firmly that the gross differential between stats between a shortsword and a rapier would strongly imply that the RQ2 "rapier" is indeed, the latter one, anachronistic as that may be.

Personally, I'd find it amusing if someone showed up at a fencing bout with one of the Bronze Age ones, insisting that "this too is a rapier, really!".  Of course, they'd likely get owned due to reach and, lacking a crossguard, nearly no ability whatsoever to parry...

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1 hour ago, styopa said:

Your point is well taken, and thanks to Nick J's posted videos on the subject, I feel far more informed on the subject, thank you.  On a tangent: Curious that the dirk has no tang at all?

Going back to the minutiae of which "rapier" is represented by the RQ weapon list (the Bronze Age thing called a "rapier" by archaeologists, or the late-Medieval thing more widely recognized as a "rapier"), I'd still say firmly that the gross differential between stats between a shortsword and a rapier would strongly imply that the RQ2 "rapier" is indeed, the latter one, anachronistic as that may be.

Personally, I'd find it amusing if someone showed up at a fencing bout with one of the Bronze Age ones, insisting that "this too is a rapier, really!".  Of course, they'd likely get owned due to reach and, lacking a crossguard, nearly no ability whatsoever to parry...

You would almost certainly use a shield with a Bronze Age rapier. You "parry" with that.

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On July 5, 2016 at 11:45 AM, TRose said:

  I for one want a Dragonsnail and Walktapi figure and other unique Glorantha figures. And of course Nomads , Impala and bison riders.

 Im lucky for Broo I have the Old Mongoose Broo pack plus the Meg mini beastmen set  but do need scorpion men too.

I'm tardy on this, but Rapier Miniatures does a decently-priced line of scorpion men: http://www.rapierminiatures.co.uk/page/Range/28mm_Beastmen.html

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  • 6 months later...
1 hour ago, David Scott said:

... or the guy from Dishdash?

But that page is (so far as I know) unaltered from the flurry of attention it gained in mid-August 2016 (promising a Feb 2017 release).  So here we are, at the end of Feb 2017... In the absence of a release, it seems like time for an update, at least ?

 

C'es ne pas un .sig

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22 minutes ago, g33k said:
1 hour ago, David Scott said:

 

... or the guy from Dishdash?

 

@Dishdashgames then. Ive known Colin for years, perhaps this will summon him. He's in New Zealand so I don't know how fast this will work.

Edited by David Scott

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Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

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