New Partnership for Gloranthan Miniatures and Skirmish Wargames Rules

[g33k]

18 hours ago, David Scott said:

... perhaps this will summon him ...

Carefull, there!  I don't think you sealed your pentagram...

[Beornvig]

On 7/5/2016 at 3:25 PM, Pentallion said:

Jack O'Bear is high on my list.  But meantime I will be snatching these babies up.  I haven't painted miniatures since I painted the RuneQuest miniature box set in the early 80's. 

Yup, Jack O'bear's, Walktapi and ducks would be my first priority.

[Noita]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:35 PM, David Scott said:

http://www.skirmishsangin.com/glorantha/

@MOB may be able to comment.

@MOB still waiting for a comment.

[Bud]

On 7/6/2016 at 1:34 PM, Yinkin said:

Contrary to some other posters I do NOT wish for a ruleset that specifically links with the RQ rules. RuneQuest is a great rpg, but for a minis skirmish game you want something faster that creates interesting small battles! I have played some such, Confrontation and Bushido being two favourites, although I have not tried Outbreak! The important thing is that it is a good, interesting and tactical set of skirmish rules!

I do echo the comments about the models, though! Orlanthi is a good beginning, and I think they are and should be unique enough that you would want them rather any old barbarian mini with a rune on the shield. Praxian beastriders, I agree very much with! They are a very characterful culture that works excellently as foes to the orlanthi!

A system that is both compatible with RQ and that works as a standalone would be ideal.

As far as that goes, I hope it can be played with or without miniatures.  With naval combat! The seas of Glorantha will be red...

[Dissolv]

I assume we should regard this partnership as dead then? 

 

 

Dissolv

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Dissolv said:

I assume we should regard this partnership as dead then? 

The lack of updates on this thread / topic, lack of new content at DishDash since the original announcement, and DishDash missing their announced Feb date for 1st-set availablilty, all tend to suggest a product line that... well, "backburner'ed" at least, if not "dead" .

HOWEVER ...

• I see no retraction or announcement of an end on the Chaosium-blog (and they HAVE previously disavowed licensees)
• "Glorantha" is still one of the sub-pages linked on the Dishdash homepage (with Dishdash's original Glorantha content still there).

Both announced it, and neither has retracted.  So I don't think it's "dead," no!   If I had to guess about the lack of progress, I would take note of Chaosium's changes (since the DishDash announcement) to when/how they're releasing RQG; I would guess that DishDash is prioritizing other product-lines for now, and planning to push Glorantha in a few months (when the new RQG is closer to release, adding to (and benefitting from) the "buzz").  But other than the observed/announced facts, the rest is just guesswork from an uninformed outsider (and fan).

 

[kaydet]

@g33k It seems like poor business sense for Chaosium to license two different companies to produce the same product.

My guess is that Dish Dash games saw the reaction to their first effort and pulled the plug when they realized they'd never produce anything that would satisfy the fans.

[styopa]

48 minutes ago, kaydet said:

@g33k It seems like poor business sense for Chaosium to license two different companies to produce the same product.

My guess is that Dish Dash games saw the reaction to their first effort and pulled the plug when they realized they'd never produce anything that would satisfy the fans.

[MOB]

1 hour ago, kaydet said:

@g33k It seems like poor business sense for Chaosium to license two different companies to produce the same product.

Why poor business sense? We have many licensees producing the same sort of thing - e.g. Stygian Fox, Golden Goblin Press and Goodman Games, among a number of others, are all producing Call of Cthulhu supplements under license. Same applies to RQ/Glorantha minies - neither Rapier nor Dash-Dash have an exclusive license to make RQ/Glorantha minies, and both are aware other makers may wish to apply for a license as well.

 

[kaydet]

Miniatures in particular might benefit from a unity of vision and control, and represent a different production challenge than roleplaying supplements. First of all, two manufacturers working on the same line is kind of a weird dynamic as far as miniatures go, and not a little confusing for a customer. More fundamentally, though, who ensures that the models are at the same scale, and are stylistically compatible? Who coordinates the plan(s) for production and release? Having one company produce 28mm figures, and another the 6mm line would make more sense to me, if two companies were required.

I suppose I'm being an armchair quarterback here, and I'll admit I don't have experience running a business. Ultimately I'll just say that I'm sure Chaosium has good reasons for what it's doing, but I think that at the least there could have been some better communication about the status of this project in particular -- especially when the initial release date is several months past.

[styopa]

10 hours ago, MOB said:

Why poor business sense? We have many licensees producing the same sort of thing - e.g. Stygian Fox, Golden Goblin Press and Goodman Games, among a number of others, are all producing Call of Cthulhu supplements under license. Same applies to RQ/Glorantha minies - neither Rapier nor Dash-Dash have an exclusive license to make RQ/Glorantha minies, and both are aware other makers may wish to apply for a license as well.

 

Agreed.

AFAIK the minifig mfg biz is at best a middle-small corporate enterprise (maybe whoever is the shop for GW is large) where companies flourish for a few years and then fade out.

It only makes sense that Chaosium license this out broadly to actually generate a sustainable marketplace of products.  Worst possible choice would be to hand something exclusive out, and then watch it vanish as the "exclusive partner" either folds or is consumed by another.

I generally hope that Chaosium might sometime support free downloadable pdfs or 2d printables...I'm old; the prices these companies want for figures is pretty crazy.

[styopa]

9 hours ago, kaydet said:

 First of all, two manufacturers working on the same line is kind of a weird dynamic as far as miniatures go, and not a little confusing for a customer. More fundamentally, though, who ensures that the models are at the same scale, and are stylistically compatible?

Maybe again it's my age, but this seems odd to me.  Has it gotten that boutique?

I remember in the olden days of the 1980s when going to buy D&D figures, you had TONS of choices: Grenadier, Ral Partha, and at least a handful of others but they were the biggies.  

As a consumer, I'd much rather have more competition and choice than 'stylistic consistency'?  Do people today care if some figures are 25mm and others are 27mm?

[g33k]

11 hours ago, kaydet said:

Miniatures in particular might benefit from a unity of vision and control, and represent a different production challenge than roleplaying supplements. First of all, two manufacturers working on the same line is kind of a weird dynamic as far as miniatures go, and not a little confusing for a customer. More fundamentally, though, who ensures that the models are at the same scale, and are stylistically compatible? Who coordinates the plan(s) for production and release? Having one company produce 28mm figures, and another the 6mm line would make more sense to me, if two companies were required.

As others have said -- historically speaking, there have often been multiple mini-makers that produced for a single RPG-line.  If there are multiple mini-makers wanting to license RQ names & logos for the new release, I think that's great!  If Rapier and DishDash wanted to coordinate/collaborate, to produce compatible lines, with a broader variety, sooner....  I think that's even MORE great!  

 

11 hours ago, kaydet said:

... I'm sure Chaosium has good reasons for what it's doing, but I think that at the least there could have been some better communication about the status of this project in particular -- especially when the initial release date is several months past.

That really appears as DishDash, not Chaosium.

I'm inclined to agree with you, mind...  announcing a Feb. release date for actual product-availability, then not only letting the date pass, but staying silent for MONTHS afterwards...  no, it doesn't generate confidence.

But DishDash is (from what I see) an independent company -- not a contractor/subcontractor of Chaosium.  Everything DishDash does (and doesn't) is on them.  Chaosium has zero control on when (and even whether) DishDash begins creating / releasing mini's, on making them hew to a schedule (ghods know, Chaosium is busy enough herding their OWN catscontactors & freelancers, and has no time to herd the ones at DishDash ... ) or produce timely updates / etc ...

 

[styopa]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

But DishDash is (from what I see) an independent company -- not a contractor/subcontractor of Chaosium.  Everything DishDash does (and doesn't) is on them.  

To be totally honest, if I were them, I'd be shooting for new figure releases around when the actual RQG rules are going to finally drop (not just the quackstart rules).

[MOB]

19 hours ago, kaydet said:

Miniatures in particular might benefit from a unity of vision and control, and represent a different production challenge than roleplaying supplements. First of all, two manufacturers working on the same line is kind of a weird dynamic as far as miniatures go, and not a little confusing for a customer. More fundamentally, though, who ensures that the models are at the same scale, and are stylistically compatible? Who coordinates the plan(s) for production and release? Having one company produce 28mm figures, and another the 6mm line would make more sense to me, if two companies were required.

It's been exactly the opposite problem with minies in the past, offering an exclusive contract and then having the licensee not live up to expectations, which means no one is happy.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

I remember the Games workshop RQ2 tie in with the miniatures very fondly.

What I remember appealing to me( besides the sculpts) were the boxes the miniatures came in, which carried the same visual branding as the RQ2 Gameswork shop cover . You knew the that the miniatures and RQ were connected, the visuals were so strong it was like a magnet for kids entering the shop. It stood out and distinguished itself from the mass of D&D products.

They were some of the most characterful miniatures too. They had that great ancient bronze age feel, and an interesting interpretation of the Trolls ( all be it different from what the Trolls look like now).

My point is that the strong unified branding really sold RuneQuest to us. We made the connection between the miniatures & the RPG game. Will there be a similar tie in with the branding of these new miniatures from different companies? I think it can't be underestimated the power of the visual link that the RQ2 (UK edition) games had, particularly for new kids coming to the game. RQ2 was incredibly popular in the UK, it was a great game, &  it had the strong branding to sell the whole package...we lapped it up

[MOB]

11 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

My point is that the strong unified branding really sold RuneQuest to us. We made the connection between the miniatures & the RPG game. Will there be a similar tie in with the branding of these new miniatures from different companies? I think it can't be underestimated the power of the visual link that the RQ2 (UK edition) games had, particularly for new kids coming to the game. RQ2 was incredibly popular in the UK, it was a great game, &  it had the strong branding to sell the whole package...we lapped it up

As commercial licensees, they'll be able to use our logos on their products.

[g33k]

On 5/12/2017 at 11:35 AM, styopa said:

To be totally honest, if I were them, I'd be shooting for new figure releases around when the actual RQG rules are going to finally drop (not just the quackstart rules).

I dunno... a skirmish minigame with a minimal set of figs, dropping at the same time as the Quickstart; that could be pretty good!  One more set of mini's in 2-3 months to give some additional options to the minigame.  Then the full RQ-Sangin rules, and more mini's, dropping with the RQG Core ...  I think that could be pretty successful.  There's a fair number of Gloranthan grognards forming a ready market, so they don't HAVE to hold back.

But given the quietude from DishDash -- even in the face of open speculation that the deal is dead -- I bet that they are more aiming to hit market with Chaosium's RQG Core rules, not with the Quickstart.

[styopa]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

I dunno... a skirmish minigame with a minimal set of figs, dropping at the same time as the Quickstart; that could be pretty good!  One more set of mini's in 2-3 months to give some additional options to the minigame.  Then the full RQ-Sangin rules, and more mini's, dropping with the RQG Core ...  I think that could be pretty successful.  There's a fair number of Gloranthan grognards forming a ready market, so they don't HAVE to hold back.

But given the quietude from DishDash -- even in the face of open speculation that the deal is dead -- I bet that they are more aiming to hit market with Chaosium's RQG Core rules, not with the Quickstart.

You'd have to have a good set of skirmish rules.

...compatible with RQG...

...compatible with Glorantha...

...approved by Chaosium...

Yeah, IMO we're at *least* 18 months too late for that.

 

Personally, FWIW my $0.02 would be Chaosium-licensed plastic minis instead of white metal.  I'm as nostalgic as anyone, and I love my ancient box of lead figures (actual lead - how am I still alive?) but the cost is crazy and IMO unsustainable.  I was pricing white metal figures from Corvus Belli for Infinity and...ouch.

[g33k]

23 minutes ago, styopa said:

You'd have to have a good set of skirmish rules.

...compatible with RQG...

...compatible with Glorantha...

...approved by Chaosium...

Yeah, IMO we're at *least* 18 months too late for that.

Remember that the ANNOUNCEMENT is a year old, now!  No telling how much (if any) work was into the project before it was announced.

And skirmish-wargame mini's games is DishDash's core business, their bread-and-butter.  If it was an in-house priority, if they felt the market was there... they could surely have the rules ready.

 

[Noita]

If there's going to be a skirmish/war game game i'd prefer plastic miniatures. That said if it's just Skirmish I'll be using Lego

 

[David Scott]

24 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

 That said if it's just Skirmish I'll be using Lego

I've never been a figures person, when needed I've always preferred 15mm. I've a Bison Herd and all the pigs for the Balazaring citadels! However licensed Lego Glorantha would be a thing of great joy. I can see full size Balazaring citadels, The votanki hearth  expansion, The Pavis and sun dome temples, and minifigs of great gloranthan heroes (like Julia's excellent creations). Plus lunar, sundome, Praxian and sartarite minifig packs.

[David Scott]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

And skirmish-wargame mini's games is DishDash's core business, their bread-and-butter.  If it was an in-house priority, if they felt the market was there... they could surely have the rules ready.

I know that DishDash is one (or maybe two) people, the main person has a day job running another company in an unrelated field. So this is a "hobby" company and I don't mean that in a disparaging manner as I've known them for 25 plus years. Realistically, small game companies don't have huge resources. Same with other figure producers, often it's just one person and real life gets in the way. If product appears, it appears. If it doesn't, hopefully another person can step in.

Non-exclusive figure licensing for Glorantha is a fantastic step forward. IMO, competition is a good thing. Now Chaosium have opened the door for submissions, hopefully that will encourage skirmish writers to come forward with their compatible systems. The new era looks positive to me. 

[Richard S.]

35 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I've never been a figures person, when needed I've always preferred 15mm. I've a Bison Herd and all the pigs for the Balazaring citadels! However licensed Lego Glorantha would be a thing of great joy. I can see full size Balazaring citadels, The votanki hearth  expansion, The Pavis and sun dome temples, and minifigs of great gloranthan heroes (like Julia's excellent creations). Plus lunar, sundome, Praxian and sartarite minifig packs.

As a Lego enthusiast, this, though probably impossible, would be incredible for Glorantha.

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, styopa said:

FWIW my $0.02 would be Chaosium-licensed plastic minis instead of white metal.

Agreed.  I have no interest in metal figures.  Personally I'm looking forward to the Gods War figures from Petersen Games, and hoping that they might package some of the common figures for RQG.