Suggestion - SciFi Co-op

[soltakss]

Nobody going anywhere with SciFi rules?

Shame.

[Conrad]

Nobody going anywhere with SciFi rules?

Shame.

At least there are enough SF rules in the new BRP book to act as a starting point for a creative GM.:innocent:

Edited January 30, 2009 by Conrad

[Ottomancer]

Nobody going anywhere with SciFi rules?

Shame.

I'm working on something. Have already approached Chaosium about it and they seem interested. Very embryonic at the moment. Will post more when it is more coherent.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

I'm working on something. Have already approached Chaosium about it and they seem interested. Very embryonic at the moment. Will post more when it is more coherent.

Where are you working on it, and do you need any input? :cool:

[Ottomancer]

Where are you working on it, and do you need any input? :cool:

In emails exchanges, my head, and a word document on my computer. I'll have somewhere online for people to get involved once it becomes more structured...

and yes, input definitely welcomed. I don't think it's something I want to tackle alone. Cthulhu Rising started off like that, and I was glad of the input I got from others later down the line...

[Dredj]

Ottomancer, is there any difference between the pdf of Cthulhu Rising and the mongraph, anymore?

[Dredj]

As far as suggestions for Cthulhu Rising go: some people seem to really be into stargates. Have stargates as a setting prop that people can either use or not (they could be developed further along in the timeline) and have only key colonial or outpost systems have them. Systems that don't have stargates could be prime breeding grounds for cultists and mythos and such. Also, stargates will always be prime targets for attack.

Maybe also have the stargates transport ships to their intended destinations most of the time, but sometimes ships are sent to other destinations, but not so far removed that they can't get to their destination in a week or three using F-Drive.

Also, in a game called Starcluster, any ships making a jump will be subject to a sort of time dilation. If two ships make a jump together, they may arrive at their destination hours--up to two years--apart. The pilot must make a skill check in or to keep the time spent in hyperspace (it seems like little or no time has passed to the crew) down. That same thing can work for stargates, meaning that an armada can't enter one and then attack a system through the destination stargate--all the ships would be reaching the destination system at all different times. The one benefit of having stargates would be the much lesser amount of stress on the crew than having to climb into and out of cryo-pods would put on them.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Dredj

[Ottomancer]

Ottomancer, is there any difference between the pdf of Cthulhu Rising and the mongraph, anymore?

You mean the PDF and monograph on the Chaosium website? They're both in synch. The first edition of the monograph ended up out of date, and so when Chaosium did another print run, I took the opportunity to bring it up to date.

[Dredj]

You mean the PDF and monograph on the Chaosium website? They're both in synch. The first edition of the monograph ended up out of date, and so when Chaosium did another print run, I took the opportunity to bring it up to date.

Thanks for the update. I have the original monograph. I will upgrade in the following month or so.

[Dredj]

If anyone's still interested, here is something from Atomic Rocket: Faster Than Light

The Canonical List of StarDrives

If you want to roll your own, you might find the following useful. Noted physicist and Hugo & Nebula award-winning SF author Geoffrey A. Landis has created a catalog of every kind of StarDrive that has ever existed in science fiction.

* [1.0] Discontinuous Drives ("teleport-like")

o [1.1] Flash gates

+ [1.1.1] Transmitter to receiver

+ [1.1.2] Transmitter to anywhere

# [1.1.2.1] Transmitter to anywhere /variant

+ [1.1.3] Anywhere to receiver

+ [1.1.4] Distant transmitter

o [1.2] "Door" gates

+ [1.2.1] Portal to portal

+ [1.2.2] Portal to anywhere

+ [1.2.3] Anywhere to portal

+ [1.2.4] Distant portal

o [1.3] "Permanent" gates (Wormholes)

o [1.4] Teleportation (aka "jump")

+ [1.4.1] Single jump

# [1.4.1.1] Single jump/variant

+ [1.4.2] Multiple-connection

+ [1.4.3] Multi-jump (Stutter)

+ [1.4.4] Hopscotch drive

+ [1.4.5] FTL by time travel

o [1.5] "Fold" drive ( Telportation/variant )

* [2.0] Continuous Drives

o [2.1] "Railroad" drives

+ [2.1.1] Fixed trail

+ [2.1.2] Consumable trail

o [2.2] "Non-railroad" drives

+ [2.2.1] Real space drives

# [2.2.1.1] Newtonian space drives

# [2.2.1.2] Post-relativistic space drives

# [2.2.1.3] Tachyonic travel

# [2.2.1.4] Modified local speed of light

# [2.2.1.5] Modified regional speed of light

# [2.2.1.6] Modified universal speed of light

# [2.2.1.7] Tachyonic teleportation

# [2.2.1.8] Other real drives

# [2.2.1.9] "Bubble" drives

+ [2.2.2] Alternative space (non-real space drives)

# [2.2.2.1] Alternative space with fixed nodes

* [2.2.2.1.1] Hyperspace with transmitter and receiver

* [2.2.2.1.2] Hyperspace with transmitter

* [2.2.2.1.3] Hyperspace with receiver

* [2.2.2.1.4] Hyperspace with distant transmitter

# [2.2.2.2] Alternative space without fixed nodes

* [2.2.2.2.1] "Jump" hyperspace

* [2.2.2.2.2] Direction hyperspace

* [2.2.2.2.3] Navigable hyperspace

* [3.0] Modifying the Universe

o [3.1] Modify distance in space

o [3.2] Modify the speed of light

o [3.3] Universal parameter change

* [1.0] Discontinuous Drives ("teleport-like"). Discontinuous drives are ones in which the traveler does not traverse the space between origin and destination.

o [1.1] Flash gates. Devices in which the object transported disappears from point X and reappears at point Y.

+ [1.1.1] Transmitter to receiver. Teleport in which a discrete transmitter and a receiver are needed. May require a ship, or may not.

+ [1.1.2] Transmitter to anywhere.Teleport in which a transmitter is needed, but a receiver is not; the transporter can select the target location ("Beam me down" is the most well-known example)

# [1.1.2.1] Transmitter to anywhere /variant. Transmitter can be transported with the teleportation. See also [1.4.1.1] "Single jump/variant".

+ [1.1.3] Anywhere to receiverTeleport in which a receiving unit is needed, but a transmitter is not. ("Beam me up" is an example of this.)

+ [1.1.4] Distant transmitterA teleport system in which a fixed unit is needed, but this unit can teleport you from a place to another place. (The "point to point" use of the transporter in Trek is an example.)

o [1.2] "Door" gates. Gates in which an opening is made between point X and point Y which exists for some finite time; the object transported then moves though the gate.

+ [1.2.1] Portal to portal. A transmitting device to act as the "out" door and a receiving device to act as the "in" door are both required. (e.g., Poul Anderson, The Enemy Stars.)

+ [1.2.2] Portal to anywhere. Here the transmitting door opens a receiving door without requirement for any device at the receiving end. ('Tak Halus' (pseud. of Steven Robinette) did a series of stories in Analog in early 70s with this premise)

+ [1.2.3] Anywhere to portal. The same as [1.2.2] "Portal to anywhere", but traveling in the opposite direction.

+ [1.2.4] Distant portal. Anywhere to anywhere, device located elsewhere. Here "door" opens from X to Y by use of a device at a third location C. The 'door' equivalent of [1.1.4] "Distant transmitter".

o [1.3] "Permanent" gates (Wormholes). "Permanent" here means that these stay open without the requirement of a device, that is, they are a path from X to Y without being energized. There are a wide variety of subsets of this. Recently the most talked-about are Lorentzian wormholes, which are apparently allowed by the general theory of relativity if the presence of negative matter is permitted. General relativity variants include Morris-Thorne spherical wormholes, Visser portals, Kerr ring-wormholes, Einstein-Rosen bridges (nb: which actually collapse before allowing you to traverse them), Tippler rotating cylinders (nb: which don't actually serve as bridges, but at least one SF writer, Poul Anderson, wrote a book which assumed that they did). A non-relativity version is the "mirrors" used in Wolfe's New Sun series of books.

o [1.4] Teleportation (aka "jump"). Here I use "teleportation" to imply something that can transport itself without a fixed transmitter or receiver. Reference to quantum "tunneling" is often made. Some books imply that humans can do this unassisted (Tyger, Tyger/The Stars My Destination). Many more use ships which can "jump" with some device. Here I use 'jump' or 'teleportation' only for the case that physical travel is not required in some alternate version of space, in distinction to some SF writers who use the term or a variant for cases where a ship 'jumps' to some 'hyperspace' (jumpspace, subspace, etc) where it can travel FTL.

+ [1.4.1] Single jump. A ship (or person) who can jump from place to destination in a single step, and can select the target.

# [1.4.1.1] Single jump/variant. In the variant, this only works at selected places, and takes you only to selected spaces (The Mote in God's Eye). This type of variant in general can be considered a version of the [1.1] "Flash-gate" discussed above.

+ [1.4.2] Multiple-connection. The ship can engage a "jump" drive, which will connect your location in space-time with another location in space-time that is fixed by the universe (may depend on your state of motion in some variants). The connection will vary from place to place, so to go to a given destination you need a "map" of where to go in space to find the place that jumps to the right spot. The analogy is of the universe to a crumpled sheet of paper. An ant can cross from one place on the paper to another where the paper touches itself. (Heinlein, Starman Jones). For some locations, a long trip moving from one place to another to take multiple jumps may be necessary.

+ [1.4.3] Multi-jump (Stutter). A ship can jump from place to place, but not far enough to travel in a single jump. Thus, the ship travels by a series of short jumps. In the limit of very short jumps, the ship "appears" to be traveling through space at a "pseudo" velocity without actually having any momentum. (This shades into [1.4.1] "Single jump" as the length of jump gets longer).

+ [1.4.4] Hopscotch drive. Use of any version of a gate or portal to accomplish self-motivated teleportation by having a transmitter transmit a transmitter, so that a ship "bootstraps" across space by continuously beaming itself incremental distances. (Such a drive is somewhere in the fuzzy region between a [2.0] "Continuous" and a [1.0] "Discontinuous drive").

+ [1.4.5] FTL by time travel. In FTL by time travel, faster than light travel is achieved by traveling to the destination at ordinary slower-than-light speed, then teleporting backward in time to arrive at the same time you started (e.g., Roger MacBride Allen, The Depths of Time).

o [1.5] "Fold" drive ( Telportation/variant ). A "fold" drive appeals to the "folded space" concept of [1.4.2] "Multiple-connection", but now assumes that the ship can intentionally "fold" space to produce the direct connection between point X and point Y required. Since this categorization is by how the drive appears, and not how it functions, "fold" variants are identical to actual teleport (or "portal") variants, cf. [1.2] "Door gates")

* [2.0] Continuous Drives. Continuous drives are ones in which the traveler does traverse the space between start and finish. A ship gets from point X to point Y by traveling rather than by an instant "jump", although the travel is not necessarily in "real" space. The word "ship-like" is a little fuzzy, since many SF writers use 'ships' to accomplish what is actually teleportation-like travel. This is, I think, because ships are such a great story device

o [2.1] "Railroad" drives

+ [2.1.1] Fixed trail. A "railroad" drive is one in which it is assumed that some physical structure connects two points, and that FTL travel is possible, but only traveling along this structure (as railroad travel is only possible along a railroad). One might appeal to the concept of a cosmic string, or some other astrophysical object. The railroad is in some ways a conceptual link between wormhole-like drives and ship-like drives. If the travel is actually instantaneous, with an object leaving one end appearing at the same time at the other end, the railroad drive becomes a variant of [1.3] "Permanent gate". (e.g., Glen Cook, The Dragon Never Sleeps.)

+ [2.1.2] Consumable trail. In a consumable trail, some structure must be put in place between a and b, and the drive consumes this material as it travels in order to produce FTL. Some versions of the Alcubierre drive, for example, require that a structure of negative energy be put in place along the path from x to y, and the ship can then travel between the two points, but destroys the structure as it travels.

o [2.2] "Non-railroad" drives. This section covers continuous drives (that is, drives where the ship traverses space to get to the place desired) which do not require a structure in place in space.

+ [2.2.1] Real space drives. Real space drives assume that faster than light travel is possible in physical space. In terms of appearance, all of these drives apparently operate the same way (you go faster than light), and so if I were to keep to my strict classification, these would all be in the same category. The main difference between the drives is how they talk around relativity.

# [2.2.1.1] Newtonian space drives (EMF classification: fakedrive). This version of a FTL drive simply ignores relativity. The ship goes faster than light merely by speeding up to a velocity which is faster than light. (e.g., E.E."Doc" Smith, The Skylark of Space.)

# [2.2.1.2] Post-relativistic space drives (EMF classification: fakedrive). This is a minor variant [2.2.1.1] "Newtonian space drive"; the drive assumes that there is some (yet unknown) "correction" to relativity such that the speed of light is not, in fact, a barrier. Often this correction will be some added term which applies only very close to the speed of light.

# [2.2.1.3] Tachyonic travel. Tachyonic travel notes that faster than light speeds are in fact permitted by relativity for bodies of imaginary rest mass, and assumes that there is some way to reach the faster than light state (often invoking "tunneling") from slower than light states without leaving "real" spacetime. (nb: tachyonic FTL travel still has causality paradoxes in special relativity).

# [2.2.1.4] Modified local speed of light. Drive assumes that the speed of light in the vicinity of the ship can be modified by the drive system in some way, so that although the ship does not exceed the speed of light, it nevertheless can travel faster than 300,000 kilometers per second.

# [2.2.1.5] Modified regional speed of light. Assumes that the speed of light is greater than 300,000 kilometers per second in some places in the universe. Faster speeds can be achieved in other places in the universe .

# [2.2.1.6] Modified universal speed of light. A scientist discovers a way to change the speed of light in the entire universe, and does so. Now any ship can go faster than (what used to be) the speed of light.

# [2.2.1.7] Tachyonic teleportation. The ship and/or person is converted into a stream of tachyons and beamed across space, then reconstituted at the receiver. Actually a variant of [2.2.1.2] "Tachyonic travel" and/or [2.2.2.1.1] "Hyperspace with transmitter and receiver"; listed separately because it is significant that the ship does not travel as a cohesive unit. Other variant names can be used for the particles, which can travel either through real space or some alternative space.

# [2.2.1.8] Other real drives. This covers other ways of dealing with relativity problems without leaving real space. (Usually this involves employing doubletalk and bafflegab.)

# [2.2.1.9] "Bubble" drives (EMF classification: warpdrive). "A bubble of different space is projected around the ship so that the ship can travel faster-than-light while still in realspace." This is listed last, since it is an intermediate step between "real space" drives and alternative space drives, with some nature of both. (This seems to be the FTL system used on Star Trek.)

+ [2.2.2] Alternative space (non-real space drives). In SF parlance, often called hyperspace, hyper, jumpspace, FTL space, and other such words. EMF classification: "Type I; hyperdrive: The ships enters some different space during the trip, whether or not time passes for the crew while in this space."

# [2.2.2.1] Alternative space with fixed nodes. Like teleport systems, a alternative space drive may require a fixed station.

* [2.2.2.1.1] Hyperspace with transmitter and receiver. A fixed station boosts the ship into hyperspace; another station is needed to retrieve the ship out of hyperspace. In some variants, only specific locations are nodes which can be used to access hyperspace.

* [2.2.2.1.2] Hyperspace with transmitter. A fixed station boosts the ship into hyperspace. (Babylon-5?)

* [2.2.2.1.3] Hyperspace with receiver. A ship can enter hyperspace on its own, but needs a receiver to get back into real space. Another one I've never seen in SF.

* [2.2.2.1.4] Hyperspace with distant transmitter. In this variant, a fixed machine is needed to access hyperspace, but the machine need not be at either the original location or the destination. I've never seen this in SF; included for completeness.

# [2.2.2.2] Alternative space without fixed nodes.These are the variants of the classic SF hyperdrive. There are probably more examples of this in SF than all other of the drive types combined, and hence it is possible to make very fine divisions within the type. EMF classification: "Type I; hyperdrive: The ships enters some different space during the trip, whether or not time passes for the crew while in this space." The space is often explained away as being a dimension different from the four dimensions we currently can perceive (this explanation typically advanced by people who seem to have only a foggy idea what a "dimension" is). There are many variants based on the supposed "theory" of how the drive works, including entering a space where the speed of light is faster, entering a space which maps onto real space with a mapping such that points far apart in real space are closer in the alternative space, entering a space where the ship expands and then contracts to a different place, entering a space where everything moves at the same FTL speed, etc. Likewise, there are a long list of "conditions" which hyperspace drives are imagined to require. A common one is that the FTL space cannot be entered when "in the gravitational well of a massive body," (Niven, Ringworld series) or that your ship must have a high velocity in real space before you can enter FTL space (Niven, World of Ptavvs, O'Donnell, Fire on the Border) These two are convenient for sf writers, because they explain why spaceships are required. Important questions for hyperspace concepts are whether ships can see and/or dock with each other in hyperspace, whether all ships travel the same speed, and whether a ship can navigate while in hyperspace. These questions can also be asked of [2.2.2.1] "Hyperspace with fixed nodes". I will take this last to be the question used for subdivisions.

* [2.2.2.2.1] "Jump" hyperspace. The destination is fixed when the ship enters the alternative space, either as a function of its position and velocity entering, or else by some settings in the drive. After a ship enters the alternative space, there is no way for it to change the destination. (e.g., GDW's "Traveller" RPG)

* [2.2.2.2.2] Direction hyperspace. A ship's direction is fixed when the ship enters hyperspace (often, but not always, fixed by the direction the ship was traveling when it entered). How far it travels, however, is a variable that can be changed. Usually the distance is proportional to time spent in hyperspace, but may be a more complicated function. The ship may or may not be able to calculate its position in real space while in hyperspace.

* [2.2.2.2.3] Navigable hyperspace. The ship is able to completely navigate in hyperspace. It may or may not be able to calculate its position in real space while in hyperspace. Sometimes the hyperspace may have geography or dangers which must be navigated around.

* [3.0] Modifying the Universe. A final category of FTL, not precisely fitting in elsewhere, requires modifying the universe. Some items in this category also could be made to fit other categories.

o [3.1] Modify distance in space. Remove or shrink the space between two points.

o [3.2] Modify the speed of light. Change the value of the speed of light in the region where travel is desired (see [2.2.1.6] "Modified universal speed of light")

o [3.3] Universal parameter change. Gain access to the parameters that describe the universe, possibly by hacking into the operating system that the universe runs. Find the parameters which describe your location. Rewrite these parameters to put you in the place you want to be. (e.g., Greg Bear, Moving Mars)

When Worlds Collide

The EMF (Erik Max Francis) classification

* Type 0; realdrive: A drive which uses tricks of spacetime geometry (a la general relativity) to travel faster than light.

* Type I; hyperdrive: The ships enters some different space during the trip, whether or not time passes for the crew while in this space.

* Type II; warpdrive: A bubble of different space is projected around the ship so that the ship can travel faster-than-light while still in realspace.

* Type III; jumpdrive: The ship travels from one point to another, possibly in multiple jumps, without occupying the intervening space and without the use of a different space to assist the travel.

* Type X; fakedrive: Assume that special relativity or general relativity are incorrect in part or in whole, or just ignore them. Now you can just accelerate at constant gravity until you go faster than light.

[soltakss]

Excellent, that's really useful, thanks.

I can't see the Infinite Improbability Drive, but that's probably because it was a silly idea.

[rust]

I can't see the Infinite Improbability Drive, but that's probably because it was a silly idea.

It is just infinitely improbable that it is on that list ...

[Harshax]

I can't see the Infinite Improbability Drive, but that's probably because it was a silly idea.

this is the infinite improbability drive.

I * [3.0] Modifying the Universe

[Conrad]

All the scientific stuff I've heard about galaxies say that would be impossible, since the closer you get to the center of a galaxy, the faster the stars and stuff rotate. Matter near the galactic core rotates near the speed of light.

Where did you get this information from? I've read nothing to substantiate such a claim. I know that astronomers have detected stars in orbit around what may be a huge black hole but these stars were hardly rotating anywhere near light speed.

The problem with having planets near the galactic core that are inhabitable by our kind of life is the high levels of radiation from nearby stars and supernovae. Planets risk being ejected from their solar systems by close encounters with nearby stars as well.

[Dredj]

Where did you get this information from? I've read nothing to substantiate such a claim. I know that astronomers have detected stars in orbit around what may be a huge black hole but these stars were hardly rotating anywhere near light speed.

The problem with having planets near the galactic core that are inhabitable by our kind of life is the high levels of radiation from nearby stars and supernovae. Planets risk being ejected from their solar systems by close encounters with nearby stars as well.

I keep running into that info. every once in awhile. But I can't think of any sources to go to right now. The theory is, since there is supposedly a massive black hole in the center of every galaxy, then stars must be whipping around it at nearly the speed of light. So, anyway, it's probably wrong.