Phases of the Red Moon

[M Helsdon]

An exercise in looking at how 'wide' the phases of the Red Moon are. The lines are not stationary but move (clockwise?) during the day and night.

At the distance of Dragon Pass and Prax each phase is hundreds of miles across... 

[Roko Joko]

Yeah, clockwise.  Like the sky dome and Orlanth storm.

[JonL]

I hadn't realized that She was actually pivoting to face different directions within the Middle Air, as opposed to facing towards or away from the world as a whole.

So if I follow this right, while the moon is full in Dragon Pass, Kethalia, and Prax, it's at empty-half in the Wastelands & Kralorela, crescent-come in on the Blue Moon Plateau and Pent, Black in Eol & the White Sea, Dying in Carmania, crescent-go in Fronela, and full-half in Ralios - all simultaneously. I suppose the Lunars mark their calendars according to the phase that's facing Glamour?

If you let out from Glamour on horseback to circle the crater, would you be at a different phase every 15 miles or so? 

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, JonL said:

I hadn't realized that She was actually pivoting to face different directions within the Middle Air, as opposed to facing towards or away from the world as a whole.

Her shadow moves.

1 hour ago, JonL said:

So if I follow this right, while the moon is full in Dragon Pass, Kethalia, and Prax, it's at empty-half in the Wastelands & Kralorela, crescent-come in on the Blue Moon Plateau and Pent, Black in Eol & the White Sea, Dying in Carmania, crescent-go in Fronela, and full-half in Ralios - all simultaneously. I suppose the Lunars mark their calendars according to the phase that's facing Glamour?

The Guide gives the examples:

Day of the Week	Lunar Phase in Dragon Pass	Lunar Phase in First Blessed
Freezeday	Crescent-Going	Black Moon
Waterday	Dying Moon	Crescent-Coming
Clayday	Black Moon	Empty Half
Windsday	Crescent-Coming	Full Moon
Fireday	Empty Half	Full Half
Wildday	Full Moon	Crescent-Going
Godsday	Full Half	Dying Moon

You might be able to travel 20-30 miles a day on a good horse.

 

[JonL]

Ah, I see my mistake now. How do you make tables on here? I want to complete that one around the seven regions/directions.

[M Helsdon]

57 minutes ago, JonL said:

How do you make tables on here?

I find the simplest method is to create the table in Word and then copy-and-pasting retaining the formatting.

Note that the 'directions' change over a day as the 'phases' rotate about the Red Moon.

Day of the Week	Lunar Phase	Lunar Phase	Lunar Phase	Lunar Phase	Lunar Phase	Lunar Phase	Lunar Phase
Freezeday	Full Moon	Full Half	Crescent-Going	Dying Moon	Black Moon	Crescent-Coming	Empty Half
Waterday	Full Half	Crescent-Going	Dying Moon	Black Moon	Crescent-Coming	Empty Half	Full Moon
Clayday	Crescent-Going	Dying Moon	Black Moon	Crescent-Coming	Empty Half	Full Moon	Full Half
Windsday	Dying Moon	Black Moon	Crescent-Coming	Empty Half	Full Moon	Full Half	Crescent-Going
Fireday	Black Moon	Crescent-Coming	Empty Half	Full Moon	Full Half	Crescent-Going	Dying Moon
Wildday	Crescent-Coming	Empty Half	Full Moon	Full Half	Crescent-Going	Dying Moon	Black Moon
Godsday	Empty Half	Full Moon	Full Half	Crescent-Going	Dying Moon	Black Moon	Crescent-Coming

Edited January 3, 2017 by M Helsdon

[JonL]

Thanks! Now I have a desire to print the seven rays at 2pi/7rad intervals pattern on transparency material to lay on top of a paper map.  

[Byll]

So what happens for a lunar spell caster on one of the radial lines? does their Full Moon phase run from noon until noon instead of midnight until midnight? or does it snap to a one midnight-midnight day or the other?

In the image below if the top row is a phase at noon, the bottom row is how it looks at midnight. Assuming that the moon is half red half black and turns at a constant rate...

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, Byll said:

So what happens for a lunar spell caster on one of the radial lines? does their Full Moon phase run from noon until noon instead of midnight until midnight? or does it snap to a one midnight-midnight day or the other?

Based on the description of when Wildday 'begins' (coinciding with the Full Moon in Dragon Pass) in the Guide, at sunset.

Edited January 5, 2017 by M Helsdon

[Byll]

I think uniformly rotating moon may fit the day-names a little better if it's 3/7 red and 4/7 black...

[soltakss]

On 1/3/2017 at 9:45 PM, M Helsdon said:

I find the simplest method is to create the table in Word and then copy-and-pasting retaining the formatting.

Well, well, well, it was worth this article just for that useful piece of advice. 

[M Helsdon]

An assessment of the Lunar Cycles.

Edited January 5, 2017 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

On 1/3/2017 at 1:36 PM, JonL said:

 I suppose the Lunars mark their calendars according to the phase that's facing Glamour?

Glamour, being within the Silver Shadow, is I think a separate case.  Being under the Moon and within the Lunar radiance, it might always appear Full there.

[Byll]

If you wanted the half-moon days to look more halfling, then you might have to go all the way down to 2/7 Red 5/7 black, which is perhaps a bit too far.

[David Scott]

I did this back in 2012 when we were looking at Moon Phases. It's a low res GIF capture of a web animation I did. Sadly I'm limited by file size here so it's not a full cycle, but it may be of interest to some. I'll put up the proper animation on Glorantha.com if anyone is interested.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/site-apps/phases/moon.html

The central hub (Moon Rune) is the diameter of Silver Shadow where the Moon is always full.

[Tindalos]

16 hours ago, David Scott said:

The central hub (Moon Rune) is the diameter of Silver Shadow where the Moon is always full.

This of course brings out a wonderful possibility.

It is said in the Seven Mothers cult write up (for instance Pavis:GtA pg 400) that the Seven Mothers holy days are held on the Full Moon days (Wildday for Pavis and Dragon Pass,) and the Guide's calendars list the holy days there as being Lunar rather than just the Seven Mothers.

So perhaps in the Silver Shadow, every day is a Holy Day, and a time of celebration at the immanence and imminence of the Red Goddess. The Red Emperor's great parties are held to celebrate his mother, as a part of these glorious days.

[Mr Glorantha]

That is very cool David

[David Scott]

As @Mr Glorantha thought it was cool, here's the proper version on Glorantha.com:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/site-apps/phases/moon.html

[Roko Joko]

Necro to discuss some details.

On 1/5/2017 at 8:13 AM, Byll said:

does [the] Full Moon phase run from noon until noon instead of midnight until midnight? or does it snap to a one midnight-midnight day or the other?

This came up for me too: exactly when do the phases switch over?  You can narrate that the change is gradual, but you might want to establish a switchover time for rules purposes.

I don't think anyone knows the answer precisely.  GtG 648 says "The Full Moon phase in Dragon Pass ... begins at sunset on Wildday".  You could interpret that to mean the end of daylight on Wildday.  Or you could interpret it to mean the previous dusk, based on "The Orlanthi arbitrarily divide the day into 24 periods termed hours, beginning at nightfall," from S:KoH 358.  It's ambiguous.

I don't like the second interpretation because it's awkward, but I think it's more likely what was intended.  Starting from there, you could choose to say that Telmori territory is a point where it's precisely true, and then you'd say that the full moon pie slice passes through your area:
* from Fireday noon to Wildday noon, in Shadows Dance;
* from Fireday 6PM to Wildday 6PM, in Telmori territory;
* from the midnight before Wildday to the midnight before Godday, at the dragon pass dragon skull;
* from Wildday 6AM to Godday 6AM, in Esrolia.
The exact window would be shifted forward/backward the farther southwest/northeast you are.

So in the middle part of Dragon Pass, when the calendar says Clayday is phase black, what that means is, it's phase black the night before Clayday, and Clayday during the day.  I guess that's about as good as you can do.  And as a reference for figuring out other phases in other places, you might say, consistent with the above, that the trailing edge of the full moon phase points south at 6AM on Godday.

Alternatively, the simplest option would be to choose to not use the bits of rule text I quoted, and just say the switchover always happens at the same time of day no matter where you are.  Or instead of a fixed time, say it always happens at dusk (or dawn), so that the moon phasing follows the seasons.

[Joerg]

From the boardgame, it would appear that the phase is the same for the entire sun-up part of the day, so the question is rather what part of the night would the change be noticed/effective - with Yelm rising or Yelm setting, and the text does specify sunset.

  

1 hour ago, Roko Joko said:

I don't think anyone knows the answer precisely.  GtG 648 says "The Full Moon phase in Dragon Pass ... begins at sunset on Wildday".  You could interpret that to mean the end of daylight on Wildday.  Or you could interpret it to mean the previous dusk, based on "The Orlanthi arbitrarily divide the day into 24 periods termed hours, beginning at nightfall," from S:KoH 358.  It's ambiguous.

That and the fact that the Telmori change involuntary on Wildday, the Day of the Full Moon, suggests to me that the day starts with the previous dusk, so "sunset of Wildday" would mean at the end of Fireday.

 

Midnight would be a third option, when Lightfore passes beneath Pole Star, but the moments of Dawn and Dusk are magically so much more powerful.

Tying the changeover to the daystar makes sense, as the Lunars are a celestial religion. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Joerg

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Roko Joko said:

GtG 648 says "The Full Moon phase in Dragon Pass ... begins at sunset on Wildday". 

It's been this since RQ2. You just need to get the concept of cultures having time changes at sunset not midnight, written verbosely:

Lunar Phase in Dragon Pass
Wildday sunset -> is the Full Moon phase until -> 
Godsday sunset -> is the Full Half phase until ->
Freezeday sunset -> is the Crescent-Going phase until ->
Waterday sunset -> is the Dying Moon phase until ->
Clayday sunset -> is the Black Moon phase until ->
Windsday sunset -> is the Crescent-Coming phase until ->
Fireday sunset -> is the Empty Half phase until ->

[soltakss]

8 hours ago, Roko Joko said:

On 1/5/2017 at 1:13 PM, Byll said:

does [the] Full Moon phase run from noon until noon instead of midnight until midnight? or does it snap to a one midnight-midnight day or the other?

This came up for me too: exactly when do the phases switch over?  You can narrate that the change is gradual, but you might want to establish a switchover time for rules purposes.

I always play that a full calendar day lasts from Dawn to Dawn, with the day period from Dawn to Dusk and night from Dusk to Dawn.

 

[Nick Brooke]

17 hours ago, soltakss said:

I always play that a full calendar day lasts from Dawn to Dawn, with the day period from Dawn to Dusk and night from Dusk to Dawn.

Well,  yeah, except that Orlanthi days canonically begin at sunset.

Giving us Freezenight, Freezeday, Waternight, Waterday, and so forth.

It's easier all round to have the Red Moon's phase change at the same terminator. It's what I do.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Nick Brooke