morokanth and the harmonize spell

[pagedimp]

I have been wanting to play as a Morokanth. i have found that they all have the harlonize spell. How do the get the spell? any of the predone characters cult never teach it. was just trying to figure it out. any help is appreciated 

[TRose]

4 hours ago, pagedimp said:

I have been wanting to play as a Morokanth. i have found that they all have the harlonize spell. How do the get the spell? any of the predone characters cult never teach it. was just trying to figure it out. any help is appreciated 

 Most likely from a Friendly tribal Shaman. Shaman can catch spell spirits to teach their followers and Although there might be a cult that prohibits Harmonize, I am not aware of one at present.

[pagedimp]

The only cult that I have seen that has the spell is donadar. 

[Noita]

Shamans like TRose says. But who says they all have Harmonise? 

Their RQ2 Spells: Healing 2; Ironhand; Countermagic; Mobility.

[David Scott]

9 hours ago, pagedimp said:

have found that they all have the harlonize spell. How do the get the spell? any of the predone characters cult never

What's the reference please

[styopa]

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

What's the reference please

I don't see much/any reference to Harmonize:

RQ2 says spells: Healing 2, Ironhand, Countermagic, Mobility.

RQ3 (AH) Gloranthan Bestiary  "Their favorite spells are Countermagic, Heal, Ironhand, Mobility, and Protection"

 

?

[pagedimp]

Borderlands page 25 is the start of the moeokanth section

[David Scott]

30 minutes ago, pagedimp said:

Borderlands page 25 is the start of the moeokanth section

I've looked at that Borderlands section, can't see any reference to harmonise. 

[pagedimp]

The encounter part?

[g33k]

I'm certain that I remember -- but completely unsure of the source, or canonicity thereof -- reading that the Morokanth very-commonly using "Harmonize" against other Nomad Tribes' mounts:  being the only quadrupedal Tribe gave them a notable tactical advantage on this point.  There is a snippet of this, just mentioning that Morokanth can Harmonize either 2- or 4-legged targets, in the Morokanth "Slavers" section of Borderlands.  However, "Harmonize" appears to be commonly but not universally known.

I'm looking at the "RQClassics vol.IV" Borderlands&Beyond book, pp 41-44 in the "Peoples of the Campaign" chapter & pp. 184-188 of "Encounters."  Most of the Slavers have Harmonize; of the Bilos Gap clan, only Velakol Surestrike & Flarat Spirittalker have it.

Edited January 30, 2017 by g33k
typos. bad, bad typos. And beans: beans are bad too.

[styopa]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'd argue that "morocanth slavers all have X" isn't synonymous with "all morocanth have X".

I rather believe that harmonize is a damned useful spell for any slaver be they morocanth, durulz, or human.

[Yelm's Light]

I always took it as being a natural ability, like a dragon's breath or a troll's dark sight.  That every one doesn't have it doesn't necessarily invalidate it.  The concept of some Praxian shaman running around between tribes to teach the pumpkinheads a spell seems comical to me.

[g33k]

57 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

I always took it as being a natural ability, like a dragon's breath or a troll's dark sight.

In the core rulebook, Jack O'Bears (p.94 Classic ed.) are noted as having an inherent Harmonize ability; Morokanth (pp.94-95) are not so noted, and furthermore the spell is NOT among the (presumably most-common) spells on their list of Spells-known:  Healing-2, Ironhand, Countermagic, Mobility.

That is to say, it just doesn't exist as "a thing" among the Morokanth in the core rules.

 

1 hour ago, Yelm's Light said:

That every one doesn't have it doesn't necessarily invalidate it.  The concept of some Praxian shaman running around between tribes to teach the pumpkinheads a spell seems comical to me.

Except that (in the sources I cited) some of the Morokanth have the spell listed in alongside all their other spells, and some do not... and I'm STILL not seeing anything in this material that might suggest it as anything other than standard battle-magic for them.

I find it of particular note that MOST of the Slavers DO have it (one doesn't), and most of the "regular" Clan do NOT have it (two do).  This appears to be a pretty conclusively point in favor of "it's a learned spell, that is learned as inclination & ability-to-learn indicate."

As always, YGMV !

 

[Pentallion]

17 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Shamans like TRose says. But who says they all have Harmonise? 

Their RQ2 Spells: Healing 2; Ironhand; Countermagic; Mobility.

For most of the existence of Runequest, Harmonize is only a divine spell, not a spirit magic spell.  With the rerelease of RQ2, many for the first time in over 35 years are finding that harmonize was originally a battle magic spell.  So for most RQ players in Glorantha, the Borderlands campaign lists Morocanth with TWO divine spells (Silence and Harmonize) listed under their spirit magic and only Conceal listed under Divine.

So for 35 plus years, the question has been: What god gives the Morocanth Harmonize?  Certainly not Donandar. 

Another question facing RQ 3 GMs for over three decades: If the Morocanth DO have a spirit magic Harmonize spell, does that mean it's different from the Donanadar Divine magic spell?  Could it be - and it made much more sense that it was - that the Morocanth can cast a spirit magic spell called Harmonize that replicates the Jack O'Bear harmonize ability?  That would be a reasonable assumption as well.  In fact, given that RQ 3 GM's have TWO choices for what the unwritten Harmony spirit magic spell does, it makes more sense that the Morocanth would cast a spell that has a Jack O'Bear type Hold Person effect than it does that they cast a spell so you can line dance with the Morocanth. In MY Glorantha, for the past three decades, the Morocanth cast their harmony spell, chanting "Ooooooooooooowwwwwnnnnnnned!" and you are hit by the Jack O'jBear version of harmonize.

Because RQ 3 rules as written don't HAVE a spirit magic harmonize then any GM can interpret as he sees fit.  And frankly, now having the RQ 2 rules to refer to, no way in hell am I going back to that version of the spell, the Jack O'Bear version DEFINES the Morocanth slaver.

NOW the question becomes: do we really want Donandar's rune magic to be everyone else's Battle Magic?  Will Harmonize and Silence remain in this in-between zone where they are both Rune Magic and Battle Magic?  Which one will be the rule for RQ 4?

As of this day, the latest Chaosium edition of RQ is RQ 3.  So officially, harmonize is a Divine Spell and the Morocanth AS THINGS STAND TODAY can't be getting their divine spells from shamans, so what cult grants so many of them harmonize? 

One thing is very clear:  Morocanth love some sort of Harmonize spell.  Note that only two of the Morocanth listed in Borderland don't have the harmonize spell, one is a Storm Bull initiate, the other is the least experienced NPC listed.  The Khan, the Rune Lord, and everyone else has this spell.  You will not find any group of people in anything ever published who so universally have the Harmonize spell.  In Borderlands, both groups of Morocanth have this spell in spades.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Pentallion

[Pentallion]

10 hours ago, David Scott said:

30 minutes ago, pagedimp said:

I've looked at that Borderlands section, can't see any reference to harmonise. 

Borderlands Encounter book pages 20-23.  Two of the three tribe members have the spell, the third is a Storm Bull initiate.  Three of the four Morokanth in the slaver section have it as well.  The fourth being the least experienced of the slavers.  So we have a Khan of Waha, a Runepriest of Grandfather Morokanth, a Rune Priest of Waha, an initiate of Daka Fal and an initiate of Eiritha.

The spell evidently permeates their society.  If it's such a common spell, why doesn't it permeate everyone's society? My thinking is, because it's obviously too powerful to be a Battle Magic spell to begin with which is why they deleted it from RQ 3 and made it a Divine Magic.

Which leaves us with a problem since it is so obviously an integral spell for the Morokanth in their slaving operations and it single handedly explains how their race survives in Prax.  It HAS to be a divine spell to be balanced and not usuable by everyone and it HAS to be a Morokanth divine spell, not just donandar.

Or else, as was said before, it's a Morokanth innate ability, like the Jack O'Bear.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Pentallion

[Noita]

Grandfather Morokanth teaches it.

[Yelm's Light]

Doh!  Sorry about that, I was mixing up morocanth with Jack-O-Bears, as g33k made clear.

I no longer seem to be able to quote in Chrome; the link shows as .../#, which simply returns you to the top of the page.

[David Scott]

10 hours ago, Pentallion said:

So for 35 plus years, the question has been: What god gives the Morocanth Harmonize?  Certainly not Donandar. 

Daka Fal in Cults of Prax - as a lay member:

Quote

All Battle Magics are available to cult members at normal costs. The source of these human-originated magics is claimed to come from this cult. whose wide spread assures some constants across all humanity.

Daka Fal was alway the go to god for Battle Magic in my games. 

[Pentallion]

29 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Daka Fal in Cults of Prax - as a lay member:

Daka Fal was alway the go to god for Battle Magic in my games. 

No, you're missing the point David.  In the current, latest and OFFICIAL edition of Chaosium RQ - RQ 3, there isn't any battle magic spell named Harmonize.  It's a Divine Spell.

Divine spells are much more powerful than Battle magic.  Considering the power level of harmonize, it was rightfully moved to Divine Magic.

Daka Fal doesn't give the divine spell Harmonize.  Daka Fal shamans can give battle magic, but Harmonize ceased being a battle magic spell.

When RQ 4 comes out, for all we know, Harmonize will still no longer be a battle magic spell, as it shouldn't, given its power level as a Rune Magic of Donandar.

So the question still stands, which god gives Morokanth the RUNE MAGIC Harmonize spell?

[Jeff]

In RQ4? None. Harmonize is now a unique Jack O'Bear feat (as it was way overpowered as a Spirit Magic spell and doesn't really belong to any cult).

[David Scott]

29 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

In the current, latest and OFFICIAL edition of Chaosium RQ - RQ 3, there isn't any battle magic spell named Harmonize.  It's a Divine Spell.

There is no harmonise Battle magic in RQ3, so no one has access to it, including the Morokanth.

Bear in mind also that the Morokanth have changed since RQ2 & 3. We know a lot more about how they work, including Greg's decision that they are vegetarians.

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

We know a lot more about how they work, including Greg's decision that they are vegetarians.

Which, to my mind, completely breaks the point of the Survival Covenant. Those who won became the Eaters, those who lost became the Eaten. Eaters could eat the Eaten, the Eaten could survive on the barren flora of Prax. Making Morocanth vegetarian breaks that model, for me. I prefer that Morocanth can and do eat Herd Men as well as other Herd Beasts.

[Noita]

Yeah they eat meat in my games too for the same reason that Simon points out. It's an added fear that you might get jumped by them and eaten. Tasty person... They don't do that, but it sure scares new settlers when you want to wind them up.

[Noita]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

In RQ4? None. Harmonize is now a unique Jack O'Bear feat (as it was way overpowered as a Spirit Magic spell and doesn't really belong to any cult).

What you do though is cut off a Jack O'Bears head, hollow it out and wear it. Cast a light spell on your headband and then Harmonise everyone you meet.

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, Iskallor said:

What you do though is cut off a Jack O'Bears head, hollow it out and wear it. Cast a light spell on your headband and then Harmonise everyone you meet.

And get killed by Storm Bulls.