RQ-next... Hero Labs? Metacreator? Or ... ?

[g33k]

Is there any plan to include (license/etc) character-creation software in the roll-out of the next RQ?

 

[styopa]

23 hours ago, g33k said:

Is there any plan to include (license/etc) character-creation software in the roll-out of the next RQ?

 

Likewise, something particularly needed for RQ is always an npc/creature creator, as well.

Hannu's (?) generator for Mythras is a huge benefit for that system in terms of practical usability.

While I'm pipe-dreaming, It'd be great if Chaosium launched with these tools already running and available, not to mention a welcoming collaborative community (something a little more substantial than a forum or reddit) where people can upload/download the results of their creativity, review others works, etc.  That's not easy, I realise; hell WotC still hasn't figured it out.

[g33k]

There was a basic RQ2 character-generator in 1980.  It could do beginning PC's (without any Guild Credit) for human/DarkTroll/Dragonnewt/Dwarf/Elf, that I recall; maybe others too, but it's been long enough that I'm not certain ...

 

[styopa]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

There was a basic RQ2 character-generator in 1980.  It could do beginning PC's (without any Guild Credit) for human/DarkTroll/Dragonnewt/Dwarf/Elf, that I recall; maybe others too, but it's been long enough that I'm not certain ...

 

It's not a challenging task, programmingwise.  Chargen since the early days has been a fairly linear process of dice rolls, table-results, and for RQ some trivial calculations.  All the more reason that the *moment* it's publicly released, there should already be tools in existence so the first D&D5 dm convert to idly pick up the rules can generate characters and/or creatures/monsters/npcs on his or her ipad, immediately.

[g33k]

2 hours ago, styopa said:

It's not a challenging task, programmingwise.  Chargen since the early days has been a fairly linear process of dice rolls, table-results, and for RQ some trivial calculations.  All the more reason that the *moment* it's publicly released, there should already be tools in existence so the first D&D5 dm convert to idly pick up the rules can generate characters and/or creatures/monsters/npcs on his or her ipad, immediately.

The basic element of char-gen is pretty trivial, it's true.  All the rest of a "GM / Campaign Support Suite" -- with a nice user-friendly interface -- becomes a much-more-substantive undertaking; the code isn't challenging, but some of the choices are ... mmmm... inobvious.

Then there is the issue of the multiplicity of FG/Roll20/whatever for online-centric + HeroLab/Metacreator/whatever for in-person sorts of play.

It'd be really wonderful (and VERY impressive) if the entire panoply of e-support tools could be rolled out at the same time... but as a project (or a sub-project of the larger one) it's NOT a minor undertaking.

I presume Chaosium is looking at the issue; I presume no decisions have been finalized (or it would have been announced); I hope they can make it happen.

[Atgxtg]

How major an undertaking it would be would depend on just how comprehensive it was, and just how nice and fancy the user interface was. RQ is probably easier to do than a lot of other RPGs since, you don't have classes and level limits to consider. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Atgxtg

[SDLeary]

20 hours ago, g33k said:

There was a basic RQ2 character-generator in 1980.  It could do beginning PC's (without any Guild Credit) for human/DarkTroll/Dragonnewt/Dwarf/Elf, that I recall; maybe others too, but it's been long enough that I'm not certain ...

 

If anyone knows where the Soda Archives went, it was there. Along with other interesting tidbits, such as a similar app that created opponents. IIRC though they were all UNIX programs.

SDLeary

[g33k]

1 hour ago, SDLeary said:

If anyone knows where the Soda Archives went, it was there. Along with other interesting tidbits, such as a similar app that created opponents. IIRC though they were all UNIX programs.

I think (parts of) Soda moved to CSUA hosting.  I know they went through multiple clean-ups at CSUA, though, and if nobody spoke up for it the stuff may not have been migrated...  :-(

It was K&R C, as far as I know... so (if it were found) it should be trivially-easy to debug/update to something that would run.  But I think RQ-New is expected to be a bit more polished than those old tools...

[Michael Hopcroft]

20 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

How major an undertaking it would be would depend on just how comprehensive it was, and just how nice and fancy the user interface was. RQ is probably easier to do than a lot of other RPGs since, you don't have classes and level limits to consider. 

I remember a game in the 90s that was so torturous in terms of character creation that it came with a spreadsheet map that the user had to input into their pre-Excel spreadsheet software manually. Which not only shows my age but also how far we've come in the business.

Chaosium, if they want this sort of support out of the box, would have to choose carefully. I imagine Lone Wolf Developments publishers of Hero Lab) would welcome a new license with a large audience. If the new Runequest turns out to be a huge release, it might not take much persuading for them to buy in.

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

Chaosium, if they want this sort of support out of the box, would have to choose carefully. I imagine Lone Wolf Developments publishers of Hero Lab) would welcome a new license with a large audience. If the new Runequest turns out to be a huge release, it might not take much persuading for them to buy in.

Note that waiting for the release -- and to see if it's a "huge" release -- means they CAN'T be there "out of the box".  Gotta be part of the project to get in on that ground floor... 

... and a company who wants the biggest numbers probably wants to be part of the zero-day KS excitement .

[SDLeary]

21 hours ago, g33k said:

I think (parts of) Soda moved to CSUA hosting.  I know they went through multiple clean-ups at CSUA, though, and if nobody spoke up for it the stuff may not have been migrated...  :-(

It was K&R C, as far as I know... so (if it were found) it should be trivially-easy to debug/update to something that would run.  But I think RQ-New is expected to be a bit more polished than those old tools...

Yes, but considering that the new RQ will be based partially on RQ2, something like this could provide a good core starting point for someone who wanted to roll their own.

SDLeary

[styopa]

On 2/18/2017 at 8:28 PM, SDLeary said:

If anyone knows where the Soda Archives went, it was there. Along with other interesting tidbits, such as a similar app that created opponents. IIRC though they were all UNIX programs.

SDLeary

I'm 90% sure I've got what you're talking about, there was an ancient one that was IIRC something you actually sent as a script to your laser printer, and it spit them out - no screen display.

[SDLeary]

On 2/19/2017 at 9:26 PM, styopa said:

I'm 90% sure I've got what you're talking about, there was an ancient one that was IIRC something you actually sent as a script to your laser printer, and it spit them out - no screen display.

That sounds like it was the NPC generator. IIRC, it printed out reams of opposition "squads"; NPCs in an old squad sheet format. Five or so mooks and a "captain".

The source or the actual executable?

SDLeary

Edited February 21, 2017 by SDLeary

[g33k]

On 2/19/2017 at 9:26 PM, styopa said:

I'm 90% sure I've got what you're talking about, there was an ancient one that was IIRC something you actually sent as a script to your laser printer, and it spit them out - no screen display.

Maybe you're remembering the "roff" family -- nroff, troff, etc -- scripting languages that inline-formated text, and output printer-ready content ( thence   |lpr  or   >filename ) .

Later came the SunMicro stuff and their Postscript printers (with a few of my favorite error-codes of all time, including "You should not be seeing this error" and "sic transit gloria PostScript").   ... 

But the RQ programs (at least, the ones that I knew Back In The Day) just sent plain ascii text to "stdout" (usually a screen, but possibly piped to "lpr" (the printer)), or to a file.  But it's also entirely possible that the RQ-chargen program(s) that you knew are entirely-different from the ones that I knew, and we're both right...  

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by g33k
corrected/clarified a mis-implication

[Atgxtg]

8 hours ago, SDLeary said:

That sounds like it was the NPC generator. IIRC, it printed out reams of opposition "squads"; NPCs in an old squad sheet format. Five or so mooks and a "captain".

The source or the actual executable?

SDLeary

Didn't Chaosium use something like that for Foes (and Fangs)? It sure wasn't done on a laser printer though. Barely above dot matrix quality.I suspect back then somebody used some time on mainframe at some college to get that done. Or maybe they had a Kaypro? 

[styopa]

I'd have to deep-dive in my storage stuff, I'm a packrat...I BET I have it, but I'm sure it's on some backup somewhere.  Not like it's useful.

From the RQ dailies circa 1993

On a related note (postscript laser printers), I have taken D.M.
Ingram's RQ-III NPC generator and used it as the base of a postscript
program that generates RQ-IV characters.  It's not 100% the same as
the draft, and some tweaking for ease of generation had to be made,
but it gets the right feel I think.  I have almost finished the basic
careers, and after that will add the non-human races.

The way it works is you edit the global parameters to the way you
want, then send the file to your local laser printer.  Want another
set of completely different NPCs?  Send it again.  Every sheet is
generated fresh.

If you are interested in a copy of the file, mail me at BURT@VINO.PTLTD.COM.

[SDLeary]

49 minutes ago, styopa said:

I'd have to deep-dive in my storage stuff, I'm a packrat...I BET I have it, but I'm sure it's on some backup somewhere.  Not like it's useful.

From the RQ dailies circa 1993

On a related note (postscript laser printers), I have taken D.M.
Ingram's RQ-III NPC generator and used it as the base of a postscript
program that generates RQ-IV characters.  It's not 100% the same as
the draft, and some tweaking for ease of generation had to be made,
but it gets the right feel I think.  I have almost finished the basic
careers, and after that will add the non-human races.

The way it works is you edit the global parameters to the way you
want, then send the file to your local laser printer.  Want another
set of completely different NPCs?  Send it again.  Every sheet is
generated fresh.

If you are interested in a copy of the file, mail me at BURT@VINO.PTLTD.COM.

Huh, interesting. The output that someone gave me way back when was about a ream of 11x17 tractor feed from what appeared to be a 9-pin printer! I suppose they could have used an early version of Ghostscript.

SDLeary

[Atgxtg]

I'm curious about D.M. Ingram's RQ-III NPC generator. I wonder what it was, when it was written, what language, and on what PC. 

 

I did have a basic program for figuring out category modifiers, damage bonuses and such for RQ3 for my Tandy Pocket Computer and later for my Atari Portfolio. I wonder just how sophisticated a NPC generator could have been back then. 

[SDLeary]

34 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I'm curious about D.M. Ingram's RQ-III NPC generator. I wonder what it was, when it was written, what language, and on what PC. 

 

I did have a basic program for figuring out category modifiers, damage bonuses and such for RQ3 for my Tandy Pocket Computer and later for my Atari Portfolio. I wonder just how sophisticated a NPC generator could have been back then. 

Its the UNIX program that I mentioned upthread. I played with it in the early 90s. Being unfamiliar with UNIX at the time, it was tons of fun trying to run it in DOS!

SDLeary

[Atgxtg]

11 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Its the UNIX program that I mentioned upthread. I played with it in the early 90s. Being unfamiliar with UNIX at the time, it was tons of fun trying to run it in DOS!

SDLeary

LOL!. THinking back, I can just see you messing around with a boot disk and autoexec.bat file to try and get something to run. HI MEM, LOAD MOUSE HI, etc.etc. WE pretty much had to do that with every new piece of software back then. Things are so much more user friendly these days. Oops, maybe not. My antivirus program had some sort of glitch in the last update and detected hundred of false positives. 

[g33k]

17 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Its the UNIX program that I mentioned upthread ...

Huh.

If you were looking at a RQ-III character-generator, that was clearly *NOT* the one that I knew -- I was playing with one in 1980/1981, and it was for Chaosium-RQ2 (AH not yet being any part of RQ).  I believe that I recall hearing that it had been written by someone at UCBerkeley, but I wouldn't testify to that under oath !

 

 

[SDLeary]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

Huh.

If you were looking at a RQ-III character-generator, that was clearly *NOT* the one that I knew -- I was playing with one in 1980/1981, and it was for Chaosium-RQ2 (AH not yet being any part of RQ).  I believe that I recall hearing that it had been written by someone at UCBerkeley, but I wouldn't testify to that under oath !

 

 

No, it was for RQ2 stuff. I could create an RQIII PC in about 5 min, so wasn't really interested in that, but the NPC generator was a useful tool, even if the squads created were technically for RQ2.

IIIRC, yes, it was written by someone on campus.

SDLeary