Stormbringer 5.5 edition?

[Sean_RDP]

Radical idea: Instead of using scores in Order Balance Chaos as positives, use them as negatives. Zo a Order score of 0 means the character is generally devoted to Order, 50 means they can take or leave it, 100 means that have really torqued the forces of Order off. So as the character gains points, the hand of Fate begins notice that they are falling away or avoiding the winds of Fate so one force or another will snap them back.  Say every time a character gains 10 Points in O/B/C this generates an Incident or Foe designed to turn them back. 

That is a very basic idea and (obviously) needs fleshing out but using the current system.  Could also do something like, there is 100 points total, each starts with 0 or 10 points or some such, with normal gaining and losing. Yet each time the character goes over 50 points in one of them then that triggers the Incident or Foe. 

[Al.]

There's some sound thinking in this thread

I favour (but rarely actually follow my own rule) re-purposing an existing BRP rule

Maybe:

A FreeWill score starting at Pow x5 (just like SAN)

If a player doesn't like a die roll, no problem pay FreeWill to re-roll

But it's spent permanently as Mistress fate has intervened and the character becomes a pawn

(I'll admit I stole this bit from CoC SAN and Symbaroum Corruption)

 

[Al.]

Reducing the Skill List

Elric already doubles up some skills (Scent/Taste in place of Scent and Taste, Devise/Repair in place of Devise and Repair) and the Chaosium-authored but WEG-published Star Wars did too (Climb/Jump and Hide/Sneak)

I halved the skill list in a game by carrying on with this theme

It does require some thought as some skills just don't have a double and others choosing the double emphasises a style of play

(So I put Sail/Swim for example)

The next decision is: so what? Do we do so just to trim the skill list (no bad thing) or also allow some specialism if a player desires it?

I would choose +30 Sail/Swim by default but maybe my character is an old Sailor who really doesn't like splashing about in the water ('a bad sailor falls out of the Boat I prefer staying in it')  so instead gets +45 Sail +15 Swim

[Conrad]

On 26/03/2017 at 4:06 PM, Al. said:

Reducing the Skill List

Elric already doubles up some skills (Scent/Taste in place of Scent and Taste, Devise/Repair in place of Devise and Repair) and the Chaosium-authored but WEG-published Star Wars did too (Climb/Jump and Hide/Sneak)

 

Interesting. Sorry for the thread derailment. I was looking for a reason to get WEG Star Wars for my son. I wonder who at Chaosium wrote the game?

[NickMiddleton]

57 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Interesting. Sorry for the thread derailment. I was looking for a reason to get WEG Star Wars for my son. I wonder who at Chaosium wrote the game?

Err, I don't recall anyone at Chaosium getting a direct writing credit on WEG Star Wars, it is IIRC credited to Greg Costikyan - but the core rules mechanics were clearly adapted from WEG's Ghostbuster's RPG.

The original Ghostbusters RPG was written by Sandy Petersen, Greg Stafford and Lynn Willis, with development by Ken Rolston and Martin Wixted.

Cheers,

Nick

[colinabrett]

Regarding doubling-up on some skills.

It's just gut instinct for me but "Hide/Move Quietly" or "Repair/Devise" look untidy in a skill list. Can we rename the combined skills such as

• Hide/Move Quietly becomes Stealth
• Repair/Devise becomes Contraptions
• Sail/Swim (from Al's example) becomes Watercraft
• Scent/Taste becomes Sense (as per the BGB)

I can't think of many more that could be combined and the above are just suggestions.

Colin

[Al.]

3 hours ago, colinabrett said:

Regarding doubling-up on some skills.

It's just gut instinct for me but "Hide/Move Quietly" or "Repair/Devise" look untidy in a skill list. Can we rename the combined skills such as

• Hide/Move Quietly becomes Stealth
• Repair/Devise becomes Contraptions
• Sail/Swim (from Al's example) becomes Watercraft
• Scent/Taste becomes Sense (as per the BGB)

I can't think of many more that could be combined and the above are just suggestions.

Colin

The doubled skills DO look untidy but voice of my experience here (and that may not reflect yours) it does make it blindingly obvious to players what is and what is not covered by the skill

Other doubling ups as follows (all caveat author, there is a decision made by each pairing and I am more than open to the viewpoint that in your game X does not belong with Y because Z)

Brawl/Wrestle

Climb/Jump

Dance/Dodge

Hide/Sneak

Juggle/Tumble

Sail/Swim

 

Bargain/Fast Talk

Conceal/Disguise

Inspire/Intimidate

Musician/Sing

 

Evaluate/Insight

Known World/Navigate

Million Spheres/Unknown East

Natural World

Physical World

Physik/Potions

 

Drive/Ride

Pick Lock/Trap

Scribe

 

Balance/Listen

Scent/Taste

Search/Track

Edited April 24, 2017 by Al.

[Mel Riffe]

Throwing my hat into the ring as a play-tester.

I played Stormbringer when it first came out. However I didn't keep up with it through the years/revisions. I would love to help out in some form or fashion.

[colinabrett]

15 hours ago, Mel Riffe said:

Throwing my hat into the ring as a play-tester.

I played Stormbringer when it first came out. However I didn't keep up with it through the years/revisions. I would love to help out in some form or fashion.

Welcome aboard, Mel! And welcome to BRP Central.

Colin

[Mel Riffe]

5 hours ago, colinabrett said:

Welcome aboard, Mel! And welcome to BRP Central.

Colin

Thanks! Happy to be here. 

[Mel Riffe]

Sorry to be a bother, but I can also review anything that's prepared.

And, as for play testing, I'm assuming it'll be online. I have access to Skype, Discord. I have a TeamSpeak client. I could probably do Google Hangout. I also have a Roll20 account.

Thanks!

 

[Mugen]

On 20/03/2017 at 4:01 AM, ReignDragonSMH said:

One Characteristic generation option that may work is using an array? Instead of adding bonuses after rolling / picking, you just make different arrays for different races.

Ex. Humans

16, 14, 12, 10, 10, 9, 8. 16 is the max and maybe you can shift points around on a 1-1 basis, but with 8 being the lowest.

Just an idea. I like this non random approach to Characteristics especially if there is more randomness down the road. "You roll.. a human rat catcher in Tanelorn! Welcome to hell!" 

I think arrays work better than point allocation in BRP-derived games, because it's so easy to mini-max a character.

For instance : set CON + SIZ total as an odd number, because Hit Points are rounded up, set STR + SIZ equal to the minimum value to get a damage bonus, and so on.

[Mugen]

Concerning similar skills, I think a good way to deal with it is to have a few broad ones, and specialties attached to it. For instance, one broad Perception skill, with specialties such as Sight, Touch, Taste, etc.

The old StormBringer skill categories could make a good foundation for those broad skills list.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Mugen

[Gwaithador]

I agree that Fate should play a greater role in the Young Kingdoms but, not at the expense of player agency. I think there's two aspects to this. Plotting a campaign arc and the character's possible destiny, which might be a mutual activity of the player and the GM; and a mechanical aspect. Fate as a mechanic of some sort. It  should also be separate and distinct from any allegiance system. I wonder if Fate should replace luck in some manner? There's a brilliant independent game called Agon about playing Greek heroes, and it had a Fate mechanic. You eventually "maxed out" on the trait and meet your Fate.  I think that's one approach. Using Fate to replace say, a pool of luck points to change dice rolls, etc. could be another. Fate might be something that cannot be replenished.  Eventually, you can't influence the random elements, and you "meet your Fate", though this sort of mechanic tends towards dice rolling outcomes as opposed to roleplaying outcomes.  Maybe the GM even sets the tiers of Fate for the characters, with lesser heroes having fewer Fate points, while great heroes and companions to heroes having significantly more?

Part of what separated Stormbringer from most Fantasy role-playing settings is the distinctions between nationalities. Especially Melniboneans. Who didn't want to be Melnibonean? We all know from experience with the game's previous editions that the random generation was a mixed blessing; on one hand, it gave us more variation in adventuring groups, on the other, clear character imbalance. Any changes that allows for more control over character creation runs the risk of creating nothing but parties of sorcerers, of if there's complete control of the nationality/race selected; a party of Melnibonean sorcerers. 

Allegiance is an awkward element. I think Allegiance requires a certain amount of awareness. An understanding of the greater Cosmic Struggle  that the average Tarkeshite sailor isn't attuned  to or aware of. He worships as he does because that's part of his culture and affects his  daily life.  Then there's a character who's more "in the know", understanding the Cosmic Struggle and the forces at work in the multiverse, and purposively taking a side. I think allegiance should address both of these sorts of characters. Basically, a high allegiance score shouldn't have a mechanical effect unless a character has purposively made the allegiance clear or known, consciously acting towards one of the Cosmic Powers: "an agent of chaos" etc.

 

[Marcus Bone]

Previous comment removed...

 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Marcus Bone

[RogerDee]

Has this stopped or is it ongoing?

 

[Marcus Bone]

2 hours ago, RogerDee said:

Has this stopped or is it ongoing?

 

Sort of... 

A) on a personal note I quit a job, got a pretty full on contract and put my time into my SB website (see below)

B) One thing that really hit me going through this process (here and on the SB facebook site) is that everyone has a different idea of what an updated version would look like.

Never say, never, but at the moment we can call it 'paused'

Marcus

[RogerDee]

16 minutes ago, Marcus Bone said:

Sort of... 

A) on a personal note I quit a job, got a pretty full on contract and put my time into my SB website (see below)

One thing that really hit me going through this process (here and on the SB facebook site) is that everyone has a different idea of what an updated version would look like.

Never say, never, but at the moment we can call it 'paused'

Marcus

Well on the Magic World link below feel free to join the discussion about a combined D100 Elric

Basically using D100 stuff only, make a combined setting. Thought experiment, and for fun. May turn it into its own thread at some point too.

Edited April 7, 2019 by RogerDee

[Atgxtg]

On 4/7/2019 at 7:32 PM, Marcus Bone said:

One thing that really hit me going through this process (here and on the SB facebook site) is that everyone has a different idea of what an updated version would look like.

That's a common problem with group designed projects. Everyone has their own take on what it should be and not everyone agrees on some things. There was a attempt to make a group world, similar to Questworld here some time back and it ended up with people not being to agree on things and everybody going on to create their own setting. I think a project like this needs one person (or a small group) to act as an overseer and kind of set the parameters, and determine the focus of the project. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Atgxtg

[Sean_RDP]

Many years ago a group of players that was close to B5Wars (Babylon 5 tactical space combat) managed to put together a kitchen sink edition of the rules, without any copyrighted material. I was not part of the making, just the using but it is a remarkable document. So it can be done! 

[RogerDee]

Already working on something. It has a lot of copy-pasta stuff that I have nicked, that will be re-written at some point.

 

[RogerDee]

in actual fact I am playing with just using combined D100 stuff to create an Elric setting. So i got to thinking how it would relate if i used examples from media.

Ancient Ones which I called Deiwos could easily be Tolkien Maiar

Olympians from HPL story could easily be Xena-verse gods.

Jinn could easily be Supernatural Pagan gods.

Mythras gods could easily have been Tolkien Valar before becoming corporeal, at which point they could easily be Clash of the Titan Olympian or Buffy-verse Old Ones.

These are all termed Lesser Ones.

Greater Ones included Elric's Lords of Animals / Beasts, Lords of Dream, Lords of Plants, Grey Fees, and Incarnations (Piers Anthony Incarnations of Immortality).

[Hzark10]

On 3/23/2017 at 4:06 PM, Marcus Bone said:

really like this idea. How to implement it is the challenge, especially, as I previously mentioned the BRP has no way of reinforcing play outside of the social contract (barring the Sanity rules). Does this mean a Young Kingdoms game should actually be based on the Fate system or the Apocalypse Engine? No, because then you lose the other aspect of gaming from such proscriptive mechanics - that being freedom of character.

Coming late to the party here. Stormbringer/Elric has been one of my favorite rpgs, but I will be honest in saying that I haven't touched it in many, many years.  However, the discussion here is how to enforce play along a certain line. I might suggest the traits system in King Arthur Pendragon. If you are unfamiliar with it (shame on you), basically your character's actions can be broken down into opposing choices. For example, Honest/Deceitful. They start at 10/10, but as you play, you can purposely add a point to one side which has the effect of decreasing the other as they always need to add to 20. As long as your range is 5-15, there is no problem. But, if one side becomes 16, then that trait now defines you.  The character now acts in that accord if must fail if you want to act contrary to that trait. The system may need to be tweaked a bit to better fit the Eternal Champion system, but since Elan is already there, you have a base to start with.

[RogerDee]

Honestly, why make it all super difficult with tons of skills etc?

It just needs to be points build, all the way.

Stats, trim them down you only need: Str, End, Dex / Reflexes, Willpower

Then have players pick certain traits, positive and negative which add or subtract from certain things.

Skills, well this is easy, players can pick them via professions, depending upon the setting; e.g space opera, fantasy etc. So for fantasy you can have Monk, Assassin etc, make it easy and fast. Anything extra can picked up and call it Knowledge , e.g. Physics, Chemistry etc. Both of these are picked up in levels: Novice, Journeyman, Professional, Expert, Master. Allow for ratings about this if need be.

Magic is split into: Cantrips, Spells, Arcana (areas of knowledge). Again split into the levels above.

Just assign a relevant points score. This last bit would need thoroughly to ensure it cannot be broken too easily.

And also details on how to set the campaign to various levels: Gritty, Pulpy, Cinematic, etc, and how to assign points etc.

 

 

 

 

[Atgxtg]

On 8/18/2019 at 6:55 AM, Hzark10 said:

. The system may need to be tweaked a bit to better fit the Eternal Champion system, but since Elan is already there, you have a base to start with.

Elan hasn't been there for quite awhile, having been replaced with a Allegiance score that is much closer to Pendragon Traits. I could see further modifying this to make Law/Chaos as a trait pair with those desiring Balance require a score somewhere in the middle (9-11?)