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I don't know how far from canon (maybe it is canon, or part are canon 😛 )my answer is, but it is what I understand, or want to understand, and in all cases what I play: Gods are not machine or computer programme, gods decide and are sentient. The compromise does not change it. When the world started, the first thing who was was a rune. A rune is not sentient, a rune is a mechanism. Then, call it evolution, luck, or new thing, the god appears as a combination of runes and sentience. Maybe some gods appears before some runes but in all cases, a god cannot appear before its own runes. Then here are my gods : a combination of runes and sentience When you are a sorcerer you don't need gods, you need runes. you learn how to manipulate the runes. When you are not sorcerer, you can have effect magic in two ways : 1) you are powerful enough to create yourself the effect. That's spirit spell, heroic spell or heroic/shaman ability you know 2) you are not powerful enough to create yourself the effect. You need the power of someone else. That's rune spell. You need to call a god power (from a standard cult) or a great spirit/entity power (from a spirit cult) then based on "my" god definition : Since the compromise, gods are still sentient. So they have free will...or semi free will ^^ What they sacrifice is not (in my opinion) their will, but what they can do in the mundane world: they can't act by themselves in the time world. Of course there are exceptions, for me in two ways: When the god time merges with the mundane world (like the Holy country for example when Belintar led it) When the compromise is broken by another god (or a new god as Nick just said before). The other point they sacrificed (but maybe they did not imagine it when they "signed") is the capacity to change and create new power. They cannot anymore discover new powers, new manners. They have to follow patterns they created before the compromise. For example Uleria or Chalana will never find a way to kill someone. Then even are not able to imagine that killing someone could be an option to solve an issue they are facing (If there is no myth where they killed someone, of course; but I don't know any of them) But they can communicate (dream or other ways if they decide to tell you something when you don't ask them, divination or divine intervention if you ask them) And of course they can act through yourself (when you cast a rune spell, your energy and pray is used to open the gate, ask your god, then the god uses its power to have the effect) And of course (for me, for other this of course is not of course at all, it is the opposite 😛 ) even if you succeed to cast your rune spell (or divine intervention), they can decide to not answer your request if they decide ("free will") that's what you demand is "wrong" (see the sun county supplement describing how Yelmalio refused to save a lot of his rune lords who tried a divine intervention to save themselves from the dragons)

Read up on Greg’s old idea of heroforming, that’ll get you part of the way. A Khan of Khans is acting as Waha’s agent in the world: his actions can be attributed to Waha. The Masks of Moonson nowadays are mortals heroforming the original Red Emperor. And so on. And when new gods are active in the middle world (e.g. Nysalor when he wounded Kyger Litor, or Sedenya when she liberated Peloria from the Carmanian yoke), they aren’t yet bound by the Great Compromise and have more freedom of original action… but the Old Gods can still react when prodded, as the God Learners discovered. (Hence Castle Blue, and her final triumph and ascension.)

The text contradicts itself. The question becomes whether you prefer a world with mechanical clockwork deterministic gods that move in complicated epicycles or one where the world is built on a fuzzy agreement with boundaries that are negotiable and difficult to avoid crossing, but where the gods behaving as if they have free will under the right circumstances makes sense.

Well, you've got your crusade and that's that. I think there's quite a lot to unpick in how even the idea that fantasy might take the ideas of Buddhism and place them in a different context, such as having bodhisattvas who fuck or having a morally ambiguous transcendent entity, is apparently beyond the pale for you, but it seems quite clear that the offense lies in suggesting Gloranthan Illumination might have any connections to anything other than what you consider to be pure evil. Case in point: This is an utterly ridiculous way to characterize Kierkegaard, Camus, Sartre, de Beauvoir, or Dostoyevsky. In fact, taking existentialism, which first and foremost takes human freedom amd capacity to make choices as a good, as an essential part of being fully human, and characterizing it like this is frankly to align yourself with truly poisonous ideas of social control. This venue is of course not one that would allow such a wide-ranging discussion even in the specific context of Glorantha and Gloranthan fantasy and whether the world becomes meaningless if it needs thinking minds to see it and give it value, whether existence depends on garroting human beings to the point where moving more than an inch out of line chokes them, and the like. So all I can do is point at that potential discussion and note that there is something to talk about here, beneath all the- frankly nihilistic interpretation of Gloranthan texts you bring to the table.

But how can you accidentally leave the Dragon Path? 🤔

Jaldon is not a deity, but a re-appearing mortal hero (or if you aren't a Praxian, a mortal monster).

Purely for my own amusement, I've created this map based on maps shared on the Well of Daliath by Jeff. The island names may no longer be current canon, as some of the maps looked to be fairly old, but this may be useful for anyone travelling across Choralinthor Bay. The map is from the Argan Argar Atlas, with additions.

Spells from the original Magic Realm game, categorised. In most cases the spell names are self-explanatory or evocative enough to let you know what the spell will do. Spell Duration Type Color Exorcise Instant Type I Righteous invocations White Make Whole Instant Type I Righteous invocations White Peace Combat Type I Righteous invocations White Small Blessing Instant Type I Righteous invocations White Blend into Background Day Type II Pagan rites Grey Fog Day Type II Pagan rites Grey Prophecy Day Type II Pagan rites Purple Stones Fly Attack Type II Pagan rites Grey Talk to Wise Bird Instant Type II Pagan rites Gold Witch's Brew Day Type II Pagan rites Grey Elven Grace Combat Type III Elvish lore Gold Faerie Lights Day Type III Elvish lore Gold Illusion Permanent Type III Elvish lore Gold Lost Permanent Type III Elvish lore Gold Persuade Day Type III Elvish lore Gold See Hidden Signs Day Type III Elvish lore Gold Blazing Light Day Type IV Energy-binding alchemy Purple Elemental Spirit Day Type IV Energy-binding alchemy Purple Fiery Blast Attack Type IV Energy-binding alchemy Purple Hurricane Winds Fly (move) Type IV Energy-binding alchemy Purple Lightning Bolt Attack Type IV Energy-binding alchemy Purple Roof Collapses Attack Type IV Energy-binding alchemy Purple Violent Storm Day Type IV Energy-binding alchemy Purple Absorb Essence Permanent Type V Diabolic ceremonies Black Ask Demon Instant Type V Diabolic ceremonies Black Broomstick Fly (move) Type V Diabolic ceremonies Black Curse Instant Type V Diabolic ceremonies Grey Pentangle Combat Type V Diabolic ceremonies Black Power of the Pit Instant Type V Diabolic ceremonies Black Dissolve Spell Instant Type VI Conjuring techniques Purple Enchant Artifact Permanent Type VI Conjuring techniques Purple Melt into Mist Permanent Type VI Conjuring techniques Purple Phantasm Day Type VI Conjuring techniques Purple Transform Permanent Type VI Conjuring techniques Purple Unleash Power Day Type VI Conjuring techniques Purple World Fades Permanent Type VI Conjuring techniques Black Control Bats Day Type VII Good luck knacks Any Peace with Nature Permanent Type VII Good luck knacks Gold Premonition Day Type VII Good luck knacks Grey Protection from Magic Phase† Type VII Good luck knacks Gold Sense Danger Permanent Type VII Good luck knacks Purple Bad Luck Permanent Type VIII Malicious tricks Any Deal with Goblins Day Type VIII Malicious tricks Black Guide Spider or Octopus Day Type VIII Malicious tricks Grey Poison Day Type VIII Malicious tricks Grey Remedy Instant Type VIII Malicious tricks Grey Whistle for Monsters Instant Type VIII Malicious tricks Purple † a Phase is a part of a day

Sorry Butters.. most of my game stuff is in storage so I haven’t got access to K&C to even have a look at it for you. What bits are you struggling with?

Mozart, Haydn, Bach. Beethoven is a bit too young. If you like harpsichord rock look at: Pop music with harpsichord Mozart's Golden Flute is supposed to hold a Freemasonic/Illuminati <-(jk) riddle within it. The Omen soundtrack is multi-purpose. Tangerine Dream's movie soundtrack for "The Keep" is okay. Hellraiser soundtrack is great. The "Alien" soundtrack works in parts.

In Xmas you said The Lunar Way would be released in March, so in April I'm optimistically hoping for a September release date. 😄 I get it. Proofreading is a B!TCH.

While I don't know of anything canon on the topic, I have generally played that Newtlings are what happens to Crested Dragonewts when they accidentally leave the Dragon Path, in the same way that Magisaurs are dragonewts who left the Dragon Path due to an obsession with magic, and allosauruses had an obsession with food and aggression, while Triceratopses were doctrinally obstinate and wrong etc. This is why Newtlings are prepared to apparently be voluntarily enslaved by dragonewts; they can rejoin the Dragon Path if they do. That is my 2 cents. YGWV.

So what musical instruments does everyone/anyone think Praxian Animal Nomads play? And what kind of songs and arrangements?

This, I am far more in tune with. Existentialism is a species of nihilism at its core, and so is Nysalori illumination. It is a philosophy that refutes any intrinsic values in the world, and thus it devalues the world. It sees no goof or evil, and hence it does what is most selfish, which is what is most evil, while insisting that it is beyond such classification, despite the fact that is for other people to judge as well, not just oneself. Oh, and Argrath only killed the Gods to set them free, after they had ossified under the Compromise. It was another sacred utuma ritual, conducted because the Great Compromise had died long before.

On the contrary, comparing any of the schools of Buddhism to Nysalorism is frankly an insulting mischaracterization of Buddhism, verging on racism.

I just created an account to let you know that what you're saying is perfectly reasonable and needed saying. The only other businesses I have seen being this miserly about giving updates are some individual creators on Kickstarter, and even they have the good sense to be apologetic about the lack of information on their part. Get off your high horse, mate. We all have things that we feel excited about and things we look forward to. No one is begging for any freebies here, we are all paying consumers, some of whom have now gotten annoyed with the lack of clarity on Chaosium's end. Things hold more or less significance for people based on where they are in life, or what they're going through. I can see why someone would think that some fans are needlessly escalating things (they're not), doesn't mean you have to shush them unless they are being rude or disrespectful.

Hi Scott - at the moment the only option is to create a new skill, power etc under Items in the main Foundry directory and then drag the item to the character sheet. There isn't the option to do it directly from the character sheet. When (yeah, it's all tomorrow, tomorrow) I create an NPC sheet then I was going to put this function in for NPCs - but if there are enough people who want it for characters then it's probably not a big task - (I'd probably create a game setting so that you can decide if you want to give this option to players or just the GM). So folks shout - if you want this then please say so and I can add it to the project backlog. Cheers Simon

Maybe a bit late to the party, but whenever magic system discussions come up I post the systems I use (plus one I just muse about) I run a fairly low-power campaign where magic-users are feared and shunned.

Out now: Rivers of London: Going Underground is a stand-alone scenario for Rivers of London: the Roleplaying Game based on the novels by Ben Aaronovitch. A new case for the Folly London, 2016: There’s been an incident on the London Underground and the specialist services of the magic branch of the police force are required—what exactly did a terrified workman see in one of the Tube’s most difficult to access “ghost” stations? And, more importantly, what are the investigators going to do about it? Winner of the 2023 Silver ENNIE for Best Rules and nominee for Product of the Year, the critically acclaimed Rivers of London RPG contains everything you need to start exploring Ben Aaronovitch's magical version of London. Going Underground is designed to be played as a follow on scenario to “The Bookshop” case file from the Rivers of London core rulebook. It also serves an ideal introductory case file for new players. Get your copy today! PDF from Chaosium - $6.99 PDF from DriveThruRPG - $6.99 Standard Print softcover from DriveThruRPG - $14.99 (price inc PDF) Premium Print softcover from DriveThruRPG - $20.99 (price inc PDF)

Jaldon can trash your clan hold in King of Dragon Pass.

I hate replies like this. I guarantee that at some point in your life, probably at many points, you've been anxious for/curious or impatient about something that didn't contribute to your survival. Stop being holier than thou.

It probably won't surprise you to hear that I agree with all of this. I'm fairly sure that your reference to lecturing people as a forum helper includes lecturing me. 🙂 I have trouble being as diplomatic and thorough in covering bases as you were here, so I'm glad you said it for me in way that should only rankle particularly sensitive or defensive folks. The only other thing I'll say, with sincerity and regret, is that Chaosium's way of doing things has turned me off to the degree that I've deleted most of my bookmarks and try not to think about it or them these days, as it only raises my blood pressure. I've been a fan of RQ for 35+ years. I've also been a fan of TTRPGs for that long, and I've never seen a company this (in my opinion) mismanaged.

Chaosium are rapidly becoming the biggest tease in gaming....

I know buddy, it’s just the attitude Chaosium projects, sometimes. When I read Rick’s post it bugged the hell out of me. It’s not personal or objectionable on the face of it, but it’s condescending. As if to say, “Since no good deed goes unpunished we’re not going to tell you anything anymore.” WTF. When did they start? I appreciate having Runequest in publication and the high quality of the material they’re putting out, but what exactly is the good deed that we’re being so ungrateful for? They announced the book, and after 3+ months of silence, they’re going to punish us with more silence. So, it’s not really about not having the book in March. It’s the “blame the ungrateful customer” sentiment. And the snide “gently weeping” snark doesn’t really help either. There’s no place or any call for that from a company representative. They don’t have to tell me a damn thing, but don’t judge me for being curious.

Here's an example clan! The Red Example Clan Your clan has the following Attributes: Diplomacy: 0 Health: +3 Lore: +2 Magic: +1 War: -1 Wealth: 0 Clan Type: Peace Temples: Elmal +1, Ernalda +2, Eurmal +1, Orlanth +1 Runes: Fire +2, Death +1 Heroquests Known With Secrets: Uralda's Blessing Ancient Enemies - Half-Folk New Enemy - Rokari, Lunars Ancient Allies: Ducks New Friend - Sorcerors. Treasures: Eurmal's Lucky Coin, The Star Seed Abilities: Clan members gain +2 to hit with attacks that do fire damage. Hatred of Zombies (+2 vs Zombies), Fear of Blue Moon Assassins (-2 vs BMA). The Red Example Clan has evolved into a prosperous but vulnerable clan of Ernalda Worshippers, a successful Peace Clan. Women act as the Queens of this clan, chosen from among Ernalda's worshipers; this draws Ernaldans from other clans to worship here; Ernalda's husband-protectors are Orlanth Thunderous, Elmal, and EURMAL? He is seen as Eurmal the Luckbringer here. The clan's massive vegetable gardens and fruit orchards haven't made it rich but it isn't poor and they are extremely fertile with many, many children and good health. But they are also wise; they don't have a proper Lhankor Mhy temple, but the old ruins is home to a community of scholars which produce scrolls, teach children to read, assist heroquests and maintain tribal lore. Sorcerers quietly visit, consult, and pay well for the privilege. Then Rokari somehow show up and try to fire-bomb the lore house, but since this clan is strong in fire... The Duck alliance allows the clan's Humakti to train with the Ducks and help protect the clan from the dead. Living near the Upland marsh is dangerous. Despite this, the clan's greatest weakness is the need to hire mercenaries for protection as the clan's war magic is weak save for smiting the already dead. Question 1: What rune were your original clan founders aligned with? Fire: You were of the Hyarlings, who followed Elmal into the Storm Tribe. You brought with you the astronomical wisdom of Peloria. +1 Lore and +1 Fire and Elmal Temple +1 Question 2: At the wedding of Orlanth and Ernalda, what did your clan do? Ran the Feast: We helped run the whole ceremony, ensuring plenty of food and drink, housing, clothing, stopping brawls, and so on. Ernalda Temple +1 Question 3: Which great adventure was your clan involved in? Some of these were before Orlanth married Ernalda, others were after and some... happened but the God Time is confusing. (Your clan knows secrets of that myth as well as the bonus before) Uralda's Blessing: Uralda first brought her cows to live with *your* clan! +1 Health Question 4: Who came closest to wiping you out in the Great Darkness? Theft of Cattle: They demanded you feed them cows, when they lived in the middle of fruit trees and fields of wild wheat and barley! You refused of course, for you were barely surviving, so they mounted the biggest of all cattle raids, still remembered in the songs of your people. But you disguised enough of your livestock as stands of barley to slowly rebuild your stock. Ancient Enemies - Half-Folk Question 5: Who aided you in your hour of need? The People of the Abandoned Boat: You found an abandoned boat drifting down the river by your tula, full of huge eggs the size of a human head. You carefully put them in nests, keeping them warm at great cost, in hopes of getting giant chickens. Instead, Duck-People hatched from the eggs, and you raised them as your own to worship Orlanth. Their parents found them, eventually, and swore eternal friendship with you for your kindness to them and taught you secrets from their fallen homeland, Ganderland. Ancient Allies: Ducks Question 6: What God stuck by your people during the Great Darkness to the very end? Orlanth: Though he descended into the Underworld, you remained in touch with him and he still answered your prayers through the whole thing somehow. Orlanth Temple +1 Question 7: Many clans collapsed in the Great Darkness. You took in the remains of a clan, helping to replenish your own losses. Who was it? The Limoges: Refugees from the west, they served Lankhor Mhy and brought ancient secrets he had recorded. +1 Lore Question 8: What artifact do you retain from before the Great Darkness to the present day? Eurmal's Lucky Coin: It enhances your luck in gambling and trade. +1 Wealth Question 9: How did you survive the Great Darkness? Conmen Supreme: You fooled a lot of stupid foreigners into dying in your stead, giving you things, etc. Eurmal Temple +1 Question 10: How did you contribute to the Unity Battle? Teaching: We knew the weaknesses of Chaos and taught them to everyone. +1 Lore. Question 11: The World Council of Friends, known also as the First Unity Council, set out to bring the news of the Dawn and the end of the Great Darkness to those still living in Darkness. How did you contribute? Spreading The Story of the Dawn: We brought the story of the Lightbringers to everyone and helped them get back in touch with the gods. +1 Magic Question 12: The World Council of Friends had to become the War Council, or the Second Unity Council, to defeat the Pentans who had conquered Peloria. Once that was finished, a new purpose was needed. Some of the council decided to turn a Cosmic Egg into a new God of Light to unite the world. The Dragonnewts and Trolls turned against this and so did many Orlanthi before it was done. This led to WAR. At the Battle of Night and Day, did your ancestors... Stay home, tend your fields, sell things to both sides, get punished by the winner for doing so.: +1 Health or +1 Wealth, your choice. (Chose +1 Health) Question 13: Out of the West came Arkat, who fought an endless war against Nysalor, who he called Gbaji, becoming a Knight, a Humakti, a Troll, probably a potato too. He mastered new secrets of Heroquesting and finally confronted Nysalor in Dorastor, leading to its ruin. Then he became human again and founded the Stygian Empire in Ralios, then ascended to godhood, or so his followers claim. Did your clan... Take one good look at Dorastor as it sank into Chaos and decided to *get out*: +1 War from all the amazing fighting you did up to that point. Question 14: In the Second Age, the EWF spread the gospel of Draconic Mysticism, Draconizing religious cults, teaching Auld Wyrmish, and building a giant spiritual pyramid scheme. Did your clan... Lose most of your men in the Dragonkill, so the women took over: +1 Diplomacy Question 15: The Godlearners were evil sorcerors who tried to usurp divine power; in the end they were destroyed, but your ancestors may have fought them, worked with them, or even tried to become them. Everyone *claims* their ancestors hated them, but you know how that is. How did your ancestors interact with them? Ever-Burning Flame: There is a hole in the ground and fire jets out of it all the time; it's probably inside your chief's hall now, keeping it warm and cooking food. Clan members gain +2 to hit with attacks that do fire damage. Question 16: You lived in Heortland for several centuries, but when the Pharoah came in the 1300s, you fled Heortland into Dragon Pass, which had been depopulated in the late 1100s by the Dragonkill, then banned to humans. This forced you to start over in many ways. What kind of clan did you turn yourself into? Peace Clan: Focused on producing crops and goods. +1 Health and +1 Wealth Question 17: What did you discover on your tula upon your return to it after long exile? The ruins of a Lhankor Mhy Temple: +1 Lore Question 18: What temple was still standing on your tula? Pick one from: Ernalda Add +1 to the rating of that temple Question 19: Who did you come to feud with in the new land? It must be someone different than your Ancient Enemy. The Boring Book: This old holy man of the West came to you and preached at you about how you were all going to burn in the hells because you couldn't read his book. Your Lhankor Mhy priest studied it and pronounced it THE SOURCE OF THE GOD-LEARNERS. So you declared him an outlaw and he was eaten by a bear. Probably Odayla's revenge. But now periodically more 'Rokari' show up and start wrecking havoc, or worse, lecture you until you pass out from boredom. You can't take this if you befriended the Malkioni. New Enemy - Rokari. Question 20: : Who did you first befriend in Dragon Pass in the Third Age? Friends From the West: Fleeing persecution, a group of sorcerers appealed to you for sanctuary. You got them all to convert to Lhankor Mhy worship and to help your tula and you gave them land and a nice hall. Various groups have come and gone but you have mystical friends you can call on for help. New Friend - Sorcerors. You might not want to advertise this to other clans, though! Question 21: What was your clan's greatest adventure before the coming of Sartar? The Journey to the West: +1 Lore Question 22: How did your clan help Sartar? The Alliance with the Telmori: +1 Diplomacy Question 23: What treasure did he give you? The Star Seed: This contains an infant star, placed in red crystal by Elmal during the Great Darkness. It adds +1 per tier to any attack that inflicts fire damage and any fire damage you inflict adds +1d6 per tier of the target +1 Magic. Question 24: When Monrogh of the Many Suns and his followers defected from Elmal to Yelmalio worship, your clan added Yelmalio to your minor gods worshiped without abandoning Elmal. They're siblings!: +1 Magic Question 25: When the Lunars conquered Sartar, your clan set several temples of the Seven Mothers ablaze before defeat: +1 Fire Question 26: : During Starbrow's Rebellion in 1612, your clan slew a major Lunar leader before defeat: +1 Death and New Enemy - Lunars Question 27: When the Lunars put a bounty on Ducks, you... Defended the Ducks: New Enemy - Lunars and New Friend - Ducks Question 28: When Kallyr led a rebellion against the Lunars, did you join it? We neglected our lore studies to produce food for the armies: +1 Health, -1 Lore Question 29: Did we support Argar before he lit the Flame of Sartar? We hid under a rock: +1 Health Question 30: What horrible Chaos Creatures did we help fight at the Battle of The Stream-Creek River? (You gain hatred of that creature, +2 to hit such creatures). Zombie Hordes Question 31: What horrible Chaos Creature killed so many people it scares us? (You get a Fear of that creature, suffering -2 against it). Use the same list but pick something different. Blue Moon Assassins