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  2. And I think your arguments are essentially terrible ones based on wishful thinking rather than the actual rules. That whole point about spells starting out at a tiny percentage , and being very hard to improve, ruins your optimistic version unless you presume a very very friendly GM. Though we don’t really disagree that much. Just change ‘unexpected immediate combat’ to ‘any situation that requires a flexible response, including all adventuring’, then I only think sorcerers are several years behind their theistic counterparts...
  3. Joerg

    Nature of Metals

    Yes, actually that has been my arguing point, too. Dwarf Brass precedes Storm Bronze. It is one of the three celestial sub-metals, associated with the Three Brothers. Dayzatar himself may be of any metal, but his offspring Polaris and Ourania are stars, and feature silver as their metal. And Lodril dove deep into the earth, and his bones (or that of his offspring) emerge as brass. We don't know of any other sub-divided elements as it comes to metals. While all the elements come as siblings of three in the next generation, only the fire brothers have received their own metals as acknowledged by becoming a Mostali caste. The Mostali don't like Storm Bronze - it has growth patterns, and they regard Growth as a mere means of supply. IMG the Mostali prefer to work with volcanic bronze. They might be likely to take Storm Bronze and melt it to purify it from the Growth patterns and to create a perfectly isotropic alloy rather than that naturally laminated stuff. If they want laminates, they will manufacture them to their specifications rather than dealing with unwanted prior history of the material. Like I said before, alloyists have added "metals" to alloys that they don't know in a pure, metallic form since the chalcolithic, like that (deeply misunderstood) arsenic copper (which doesn't act in any way like a blade poison). Alloys can be chemically quite stable. If you are old enough, you might carry amalgam in the holes of your teeth. This is an alloy produced from mixing silver dust with liquid mercury, and it takes some while to settle into its new shape, which makes it malleable while the dentists of old apply it to the (cleansed) cavities in your chewing apparatus. There is a "magic mixture" which makes sure that it neither is too inflexible for this kind of application nor too soft (to remain malleable for too long after application, and possibly leak mercury into the saliva). Real world brass was already mentioned by Aristoteles. If you have ever dabbled in crystallography (as many anciend natural philosophers did, fascinated by the endlessly recurring periodicity of this material), you might look at brass with some different understanding than if you just regard it as an alloy. It is a possible aspect of alchemy and sorcery which - with its potentials of symmetries - should excite anyone looking for True Shapes. Crystal lore (not in the New Age sense of light oils and similar quackery) should be on the basic curriculum of any serious sorcerer with a somewhat solid theoretical grounding. Flint knapping is a form of gem cutting used on completely isotropic, non-crystalline mineral glasses. While there are some crystals (like quartz) which show similar fracturing patterns, material like jade, obsidian, opal or flint is conceptually different from crystalline material. You can polish glasses into any shape you desire. You cannot do that with crystals. At least one True Mostali is known to have surrounded himself with gems - Martaler of the Blazing Forge, lord/overseer/most ancient one of Gemborg. The Mostali are intrigued by diamond, which is how they title clay dwarves who have excelled in their tasks to a level that rivals that of True Mostali. Unlike True Mostali, these diamond dwarves tend to be extremely focussed on their specialized tasks, though, and lack the flexibility the first generations of servants of Mostal had.
  4. I always assumed something like blades that cast Tap Pow or something similar were popular among Dart Competition assassins, and perhaps some more disreputable sorcerous types. The sword Wrath is an example of something similar to, if considerably lesser, than a Dragaeran Great Weapon. Wind Sword too. I once met Stephen Brust, at a convention in Austin Texas. I asked him how it felt to be approaching the end of the (planned to be) 19 book Taltos series. He just shrugged and said he was a heavy smoker, and wasn’t assuming he’d make it yet.
  5. Manu

    Runes of Selarn

    Hi A simple question : what could be the runes of Selarn (Afadjanni / Dorradi thief god)? Darkness - Disorder? Any other idea?
  6. Sorry for the split post... Again, I disagree... As per above and creation of new spells. (Just to clarify my stance... Personally, I'd play LM or IO, and take all 3 options 😄)
  7. I don't understand this... LM sorcerers can still learn Spirit Magic... You just don't get to choose any at character creation. Nothing stopping you from purchasing later... I'm disagreeing with the flexibility angle. I suggest they have more, and in almost every situation other than the unexpected immediate combat, are probably better than theists... Especially anything taking more than a few minutes (unless you want to use up RPs on Extension). Your theist is learning new spells about the same rate (or slower!) than the sorcerer (unless we're taking availability into account). The theists need to succeed in their POW-gain rolls. The sorcerer needs to find a book, scroll, teacher, or just work it out over 1 season (at INT x ?%). Given that the sorcerer can effectively mimic (to some degree) *any* Rune or Spirit magic spell, plus create others that the theists (and definitely shamans) can't, I'm baffled by this "lack of flexibility" argument (overall... Not specifically in the heat of the moment options you've said).
  8. Today
  9. Byll

    Nature of Metals

    There's no mention of zinc in Glorantha as far as I know, I was just speculating that Dwarf brass might not just be a variation of 'air god' bronze. The air gods threw some pretty big wrenches in the world machine, and the dwarves may be looking for an upgrade to replace the faulty components. They are known to produce Iron which no one else understands, maybe they have other secrets.
  10. http://www.backtobalazar.com/pavis-npc-runequest-glorantha-lunar-deserter/ http://www.backtobalazar.com/pavis-npcs-for-runequest-glorantha-part-3-backstreet-evaluator/
  11. Only if that environment was what Glorantha was modeled after. As a European, I often don't "get" some of the Gloranthan ecology at first glance, either. I still say that these non-deciduous temperate broadleaf trees (if encountered on Glorantha - possibly on the East Isles?) are tied to yellow elf populations that toughed it out, rather than making them tied to green elves. Hence, no females, dryad mothers only, but probably elf bows rather than blowpipes. Then let's ask Sandy.
  12. Joerg

    Seseine and Uleria

    Very good, this covers the standard Pamalt/Doraddi angle. However, Seseine's importance predates the arrival of (doraddic) agimori in the region - most of the Vadeli-Agimori interaction seems to have been in Tarien. Pamalt's Agimori push to the north, in pursuit of Vovisibor, happened east of the Tarmo and apparently didn't produce surviving settlements beyond Banamba (unless you count the Men-and-a-Half of Prax and - tentatively - the Teleosans who are at least as likely to be racial agimori because of Thinobutan ancestry). That's why I am interested in Sea Tribe ancestry, as that is a link to the Artmali. I wonder how a worshiper of Engizi would be received by the Artmali (former or newly freed). One reason why Seseine has a hard time among the Orlanthi is that Eurmal is the local seducer (something Bolongo apparently never got around to). Even the main god of the Orlanhti has a seducer side, as does his pet half brother, so sensuality alone doesn't work that well. It takes a repressive society to make her shine, but with Oria displaying just about everything in plain sight that Seseine might artfully hide, not even the mainstream Pelorians are that easy targets for her corruption. Sky and Earth, Aether and Gata. This may already have been her role in the Artmali interactions with the Vadeli (who know the art of seduction themselves, though). Which is? The Zaranistangi claim the blue planet Mastakos as the body of their ancestress, but the Veldara-descended Artmali are cousins at best. Neither Artmali nor Zaranistangi have much of an ancestral claim to Tolat other than as the (at times hostile) twin to their blue moon goddess. A tactic adopted by the Artmali and sent right back to their foes (which may have been Pamalt's counterstrike force, their Vadeli oppressors, or the Thinobutan refugee nations just for being there). (While enumerating the foes of the Artmali, it occured to me that neither Doraddic/Tishamtan Agimori, Artmali nor Vadeli appear to have had any Godtime contact with the Slarges. When and where from did they show up?) Or the Vadeli flaunted their uninhibited ways as their proof of superiority. They basically created an out-of-context encounter with the coastal populations of Kumanku, Umathela and Fonrit, and uninhibited depravity may have been one of their methods to keep their new subjects from ever doubting them.
  13. I see the Leap as just an oddity. So I do not incur a penalty for armor. But I must admit that using the penalty means that succeeding is really a feat that most knights fail. As for quick getting on your horse I also normally use the Horsemanship. In book of the Battle 2nd (v1.1) rescue a friend extended melee phase (page 77) it states also that Horsemanship to get on the horse again, but no difference between critical and success: both mean you are on your horse with your friend.
  14. Dude. I am a parent. You can't scare ME with that crap! - We'll be there when we're there. - I've got an idea! Let's all play "who can be quiet the longest?" - Don't MAKE me turn this thing around!!! - <annoying woo-woo-guru voice>: "Wherever you go, THERE you are. So we are THERE now... And we are there NOW... And... " (obligatory contuation, at random intervals throughout the rest of the trip: woo-woo-guru voice "And we are there now, too!")
  15. This discussion grew out of an IMO weird conception about celibacy, and a disagreement about its courses. Plus a rather cynical series of postings from me about accepting a geas being the equivalent of "calling the god of lightnings a loser in the middle of the rainstorm". I am still proposing that the main reason to impose celibacy on priests was to avoid priestly dynasties. Ever since becoming the state religion for the Roman Empire, the church had become heavily politicized, and looking at such decisions without looking at worldly issues will only create weird assumptions on dogma, in my opinion. What about monks taking on the role of a priest? Are those vows of celibacy overriding the requirement of marriage, or are they the equivalent thereof? There is some disagreement about when the church began to look into marriage as their business rather than the business of the two people involved. It is clear that by the time of Henry VIII the church thought it had to have complete authority and control over this business. British history has more of that stuff, like the slightly heretical tradition of eloping to Gretna Green. (Heretical against the Anglican Church, mind you.) The abominable stance of churches against abortion stems from an earlier as abominable rule that the un-baptized soul of the infant had to be rescued for baptism even at the cost of the life of the mother. Perverse dogmatism enforced by people subject to (probably as perverse) dogmatism that barred them from participating in either marriage or parenting. Martin Luther (who was every bit as dogmatic and bigoted than the church he seceded from - speaking as a person raised as a Lutheran here) made a point of breaking his celibacy vow and that of his wife (a former nun) as an ideological statement. (He apparently also enjoyed married life a lot.) As a GM, I always need to ask myself what kind of stories I want to enable and what kind of stories my players want to experience and to influence. Tragedy should be the occasional part of this, although not necessarily in the old Greek "they all die/are cursed in the end" sense. Still, a hero caught up by fate is a necessary element of the real world myths that we use as the basis for our roleplaying. But maybe that's another topic to be discussed. In this context, people were obsessing about involuntary breaking a geas or prerequisite to a considerable in-game power either by GM fiat (never good) or after braving impossible odds and receiving the statistically expected outcome (in other words, they asked for it), or suffering a string of bad random numbers. No risk no fun, right? The thread made it sound like I was singling out these cults. I am not. Players have their characters make dumb decisions, those characters aren't going to see me as a narrator go out of my way to salvage them. On the other hand, if I create such a situation as a plot obstacle, I don't make it insurpassable. That's not the purpose of an obstacle. If players overreact to a perceived threat, that may either be bad communication between them and the GM, or it may be them taking their in-character play to a self-destructive course, possibly badly communicated, too. A good way to warn them off is to tell them the odds.
  16. I would absolutely say that the Larnstings, and the ‘Larnstings of the sea’, are both connected to Mastakos. Note that the GoG preview, Mastakos has acquired powerful new shape hanging powers as well as his traditional teleport powers. I think very few of the Orlanthi (who really only deal with Mastakos as an associated deity of/subcult of Orlanth) have access to this magic, but Larnstings may.
  17. So basically David's complaint is that Gloranthan sorcerers make lousy adventurers. I agree for the most part. LM sorcerers work (I've now seen enough in play) because they are using their sorcery to enhance their information gathering abilities. Same thing with Irrippi Ontor sorcerers - they are largely using it to enhance their core abilities (and that Discern Lightfore spell can be surprisingly useful). But these cults aren't pure sorcerers - they are just replacing their (rather lame) spirit magic with sorcery. Pure sorcerers - by that I assume you mean Rokari or Loskalmi wizard - aren't intended to be adventurers (especially given that the Invisible God is not even detailed at this point). Its RuneQuest, so yes, you can play them (just like you can play a malfunctioning dwarf or a rootless elf) but you are swimming upriver. That's not that the RQG sorcery rules are problematic, but that you seem to have a different view of what sorcerers are than the writers of the setting and the game.
  18. I think vampires, Krarsht, and other corrupting subtle chaos gods have travelled and infiltrated Fonrit, and to a lesser extent Umathela, but not had much success beyond that. They are civilised foes. There are plenty of chaos monsters on the plains, like Charnjibbers, and grue, but Vangono and other deities are used to fighting them (and it gives them an outlet for heroic deeds that don’t lead to war and civil strife, so strongly encouraged). But subtler chaos is more of a problem - a common source being succubi/incubi leading to the birth of ogre (and other monster) children who grow up to be wicked leaders and bandits. You are probably thinking of the various other Greater Hydrae, all of them around the size and power of the one in Dragon Pass, one unable to move but most roaming in a distinct territory. And they (again, apart from one, cursed by Nyanka) give birth the less hydrae, which are quite nasty themselves. Mallia is everywhere in Glorantha, though again less prevalent on the plains (certainly the relative lack of broo gangs is a factor). One of the greatest chaos nests and Malia centres of power if the Forest of Disease in Laskal. I think of this as mostly corrupted Aldryami, willing to use both Disease as a weapon against humanity that they hate, and plant diseases against other Aldryami (Disease as an enemy of Aldryami, and Pamalt, has a long history in Pamaltela, going back at least to the Sunstop), the Forrest of Disease May be that old or older. Plenty of corrupted gorakiki insects and such too. And then there are the deep grue pits, the remnants of Vadeli (or corrupted Artmali) ruins, Gary the Calm zombie strongholds, etc. and last but not least, the infamous suckerbunny tree, something that should definitely be revived!
  19. I think the water association is interesting to speculate about - the Doraddi goddess most associated with sex and sensuality is Nyanka, who besides being a water deity primarily, also have humanity the ability to reproduce by giving the Agi water to drink, and is referenced as a lover in myth. I think she is socially sometimes a bit of a feminine counterpart to Vangono for the Doraddi, as a deity that is beneficial, but a bit troublesome in that she appeals to younger people wanting some individual agency and fame (in her case as a lover or beauty). Which makes a water connection to Seseine boosting the idea that (as Echeklikos shows) the Doraddi might consider Seseine a perversion of Nyanka’s natural sexuality/sensuality. (Of course the main sexual myth of the Doraddi is the union of Cronisper and Yanmorla, but that is more of a primal sexuality of all of nature thing) i do not think Seseine is subservient to Ompalam (though I’m sure the Ompalam priests might claim so). I think a large part of her appeal in Fonrit is stories of slaves seducing their masters (or other powerful benefactors), and so she offers a (possibly illusory, of course) hope for slaves. Always a safe bet in Pamaltela. Yes, I think Pamaltela naturally comes by the power of Love due to Artmali connections to Uleria, the Tilntae are either another factor or a consequence, etc. And the Vadeli approach this as a source of power they can turn to their own ends/corrupt, through perverse sexual rituals that create succubi, which they use as weapons against the Artmali, empowering Seseine in the process. The modern (or at least, pre-Oenriko rocks) Vadeli a bit like US televangelists, publically claiming that they representative the power of God so you should give them wealth and power, in private often committing all the sins they condemn.
  20. Matrices (or their RQG counterparts, inscribing a spell IIRC) can also be created with more POW, to beat (Free) INT limitations and save MPs. Of course, you'll only do it for very few spells.
  21. Too tired to check but I bet the info you are looking of is in Elder Secrets.
  22. An Arkati Trickster Shaman making Glorantha more understandable, hum...
  23. Fonrit rather than Laskal, she is one of the Glorious Ones. I don’t think Echeklihos and Seseine are the same entity (and Echeklikos is supposed to also have ties to Nyanka, whose sexuality is much more innocent and wholesome), but the two deities are closely associated in practice if not so much mythologically.
  24. Well, 60% for elemental or 75% for Power starting usually a bit more - possibly +10% cultural bonus, plus whatever of the 50% assignable is used to boost Runes relevant to their cult (in practice, almost always some of of it. Because Common divine magic uses the highest of the cult Runes, in practice their chance will be almost always 75% or higher. So this argument is pretty weak and incorrect, as frankly that compares pretty favourably to sorcerers, who likely will have many spells at a lower %age. But it’s true that they get less spells to cast. Lucky almost all divine magic users also have good access to spirit magic and no reason not to load up on it (except you, Lhankor Mhy and friends who made Bad Choices), so they can mostly keep there Rune Magic use for emergencies. My argument is that sorcerers are lacking in flexibility, not about overall capacity. But it’s notable that problem with flexibility doesn’t go away either - an experienced member of a Rune cult is also learning new Rune magic spells as the sorcerer is (slowly) learning new spells, and spirit magic too, and often pushing their Rune %ages up too. (Note that the sorcerer is often using their POW increases more or less running on the spot in this comparison, making spell matrices etc to preserve their Free INT for little real net gain) Pin general, a divine magic initiate gets a limited use, but powerful, Swiss Army multitool, with a useful capacity for most situations they might find themselves in. The sorcerer gets a couple of big hammers, and spends the rest of their adventuring career more or less hoping they only encounter the right kind of nail.
  25. Greg once told tell me that to keep the goddess Glorantha alive and eternally youthful, he needed to be an Arkati Trickster Shaman. Now that that duty has fallen to me, I've donned my coyote mask and taken on the role. It is fitting that I've decided to revisit Greg's heroquest to discover Elmal, only this time to reject that god in favour of restoring the god he had supplanted - Yelmalio. Elmal was discovered to answer an important question for Greg's Harmast novel, a book that he worked on fitfully from 1989 until 2009 or so. Harmast was set in the late First Age, some 400 years after the Dawn. Greg posed himself the question - who was the Orlanthi Sun God before the Orlanthi encountered the Yelm-worshipers of Peloria? In the early drafts of the novel, the answer to that question was Yelmalio. Yelmalio was the last light that survived the Darkness. He held out throughout the Greater Darkness, although he became weaker and weaker, after being robbed by Orlanth, Inora, and Zorak Zoran, and then savaged by Chaos. But he endured and was not extinguished and was there to greet the Dawn. But that's the Third Age myth - what was the story at the Dawn? Greg concluded that the Orlanthi recognised this god as Elmal, who loyally protected the people of Dragon Pass throughout the Greater Darkness. When Orlanth left on his Lightbringers Quest, Elmal remained behind, "the loyal thane". At the Dawn, Elmal took the Sun Disk and carried it through the sky as the Sun God. Presumably, he is also Lightfore, the "little sun" that appeared in the Grey Age and who rises when the Sun sets, and sets when the Sun rises. This might mean that Elmal never died - he is always in the Sky. When he sets in the West with the Sun Disk, he immediately rises as Lightfore in the East, and vice versa. Let's fast forward to the late Third Age. We know that there is Yelmalio all over the place. Sun Domes in Sartar, Prax, and all over Genertela. We know he is the main Fire/Sky god worshiped in Dragon Pass - heck, he is in White Bear Red Moon and his most famous initiate Is Rurik Runespear. So where did Yelmalio come from? Greg's answers were properly contradictory, as is the nature of such things. He came from the elves. He came from Monrogh's Vision of the Many Suns. He was revealed by Nysalor at the Battle of fNight and Day. All are correct, all are partially false. Or least not entirely true. But equally, all contain some truth. Then came the real tough question - what is the status of Elmal in the late Third Age? And by that I mean Hero Wars Sartar. Greg let others answer that question as his interest was in the First Age. He didn't know. David Dunham tried to answer it in his amazing computer game, King of Dragon Pass. Elmal is one off the main gods in that game, and Yelmalio is nowhere to be seen. But like a number of elements in that game, that never seemed right to me. And later Greg let me know that he agreed with my doubts. Note: that is not a dig at KoDP which I consider to be the best introduction to Glorantha ever made. But there are elements of the game that never set right with me. Elmal. Anglo-Saxon clothing and skin colour. Etc. These are tiny critiques of a master piece, and pertinent only in an essay like this. As I worked on the Guide to Glorantha with Greg back in 2012, Greg hinted that we should be reconsidering Elmal. Vinga had already been revealed to be the female incarnation of Orlanth, and not merely another Thunder Brother. Yelmalio, Greg suggested, was the main Sun God of the Third Age Orlanthi. And so Yelmalio got much more attention in the Guide to Glorantha than Elmal did. As I started putting together RuneQuest, Greg and I talked about the player character cults. "Gotta have Yelmalio," Greg said. "We've always had Yelmalio in RuneQuest." The elemental progression wheel and the conflict between Air and Fire are hard-wired into the rules. The Storm fights with the Sun. That's a driving theme in the setting and the game mechanics reflect that. But where does that put Elmal? We didn't even include poor Elmal in the book. In the Cults Book, the time to evade the question is over. This is a game book, not a speculative collection off essays. So here's the answer: Yelmalio is the Sun God of Dragon Pass and the Lunar Provinces. The Yelm cult among the Grazelander Pure Horse People is the exception that proves the rule. Since the 1550s or so, even most of the solar worshipers among the Sartarites have agreed that Yelmalio is the god of the Cold Sun. Elmal is still present - as a subcult of Yelmalio. If you want to have your Elmal cultist who is allied to Orlanth and the loyal defender of the Orlanthi clan, you can. He just has the ignominy of being treated as a member of a special Yelmalio subcult. And the even greater insult of being largely ignored by the Sartarite Orlanth cult. But Elmal can endure. And who knows, he might endure long enough for Arkat to need to betray his gods and become a passionate devotee of something old, something new. Who knows - I mean it has happened before!
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