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  2. Comparing a sorcerer's repertoire to that of a Wind Lord is apples and oranges. Of course a Wind Lord will do Orlanth stuff better than any sorcerer - he is Orlanth after all. But only a sorcerer is going to come up with a spell that combines Fire and Water or otherwise forces the elements to do something they didn't do in the God Time. *Individual* sorcerers might not be able to easily match *individual* Rune masters, but sorcery is largely found in civilised lands where sorcerers are able to teach one another, train, have resources allocated to them, etc. We should all be fortunate that the Malkioni have rejected their God Learner ways, and have retreated back to less dangerous Rokarism and New Hrestolism.
  3. No I mean literally the Oceanic speakers who settled Papua-New Guinea. Two major branches of Austronesian are attested in the island of New Guinea, Oceanic (the Western Oceanic languages) and the South Halmahera–West New Guinea languages.
  4. So... is your entire argument based solely around Orlanthi? " I need to travel across a barrier, I need to defend against spirits, i need to camp in enemy territory and not get captured, I need to catch a thief, I need to enhance my ability to seduce someone, etc, " I'm guessing you're referring to either Leap or Flight to get over the barrier... Spirit is obvious... being in enemy territory is probably Warding (and it's not going to stop you getting captured, although it does help a little)...maybe Leap to catch the thief (that is, of course, if you know the the thief is and where s/he is...)... enhance abilities to seduce - as you said, not common, and needs to be specifically chosen, and cast using a different Rune (Fertility, Illusion or Beast..) Can sorcery have responses to all those situations? It can... Yes, you will have to prepare in advance for it (spell selection). Some may be common (Protective Circle will probably be a no-brainer -so there's Warding covered). Some less common - Barrier issues? Fly or Summon/Bind Air Elemental... Thief? Geomancy... you can run, but you can't hide! Dominate Human (who needs to just seduce??) As I've said (5 times now??), sorcery has options that Rune magic will never have.... from the above calculations on casting percentages, yes, they can even be cast reliably at starting level... and if not - do it again a few minutes later! You're arguing that Divine Magic is much better than Sorcery, because sorcery is a waste of time, so why bother with it? I'm arguing that sorcery is powerful and useful. I'm not arguing that Divine magic isn't powerful or useful... Basically - you're over-emphasising the negatives of sorcery, while over- emphasising the positives of theism...
  5. Maybe some of them regard him as a friend
  6. East Isles without Vith, though. So what we get is a civilisation in the south-east that is neither tied to the directional lord of the east (Vith) nor to that of the south (Pamalt), and which was destroyed by Sea, eastern Antigods, and (IMO northwestern) Artmali (as we have no hint of Veldang naval activity on the Togaro Ocean, only on the Nargan sea and the "slow zone" of Sramak's river in the neighborhood of the earth cube). What we do get are strong parallels with the Fiwan Hsunchen creation myths of Pamaltela (though if Bolongo's betrayal occurred, the stories are quite silent about that), so there is continuity to Pamaltela there. In other words, Madagascar, or possibly New Zealand? That's the role of the Outrigger heroes - helmswoman and navigator. Dengenti and Jomor accompany Miirdek in the Sharzu -> Maslo version. Inki and Boroto occur in the Ulrana -> Thinokos version, as intercessors between the living and the underwater realm of the dead. The people of Alarlarverir -> Kimos apparently make do without an outrigger boat. They are the ones who remember the coming of the antigods. Theirs is the most Chthulhuid of the three Outrigger People myths. Or they are the only ones who remember the worst stuff of the demon period. Loral lies smack-dab in the region of Genjera/Gendara. The Queendom of Loral is lost to history, and may have been eradicated or horribly transmuted by the arrival of the island fortress of Zir. This appearance might be tied to the 1049-1051 cataclysms that also produced the city of Senbar in northern Pent. We have no myths of origin for the Kumankans, their History section tells us that the islands were colonized by people of Thinobutu origin without telling us how and when they arrived there, and only the map on p.697 of the Guide to ascertain their Outrigger origin. For all we know, they may have been carried off from the Sevasbos coast by Artmali as slaves. There is one interesting exception to the enslavement of Kumanku, though -- the Place of Cloth Trading on Teleos who rule over a slave population carried away from Teshnos. The Kimotan myth does allow for other places of survival, though, only following the activities of the demigod king Kediri. Thinobutu itself appears to be a spirit realm island. Maybe it was one from the start.
  7. Today
  8. 'Thwweeeet!' Alright jajagappa, put yer hands on yer heads and step away from that bad humour (that kinda strength of stuff is meant fer the perfessionals... like bill the barbarian!). Y'all know that yer off topic by a country mile there boy. What does any of that hogwash have to do with making chaos in the south, great again. <spits> That's one!
  9. Sure he does. Yelm, Ernalda, Aldrya, Hyalor, Vrimak, Yelorna - and the descendants of those he protected in the Great Darkness.
  10. The seduction is the only one that strictly requires magic that isn’t common divine, but all of them are within the range of magic known by an Orlanthi (Charisma spell from Eurmal covers seduction).
  11. Basically, the new GoG says there are few meaningful divine differences between Lhankor Mhy and Buserian (apart from different allied cults), and the God Learners treated them as different names for the same God, and the GL are substantially correct. It takes a similar course for a lot of deities. They have the same Divine spells (apart from allies), and both use sorcery (though the sorcery spells are substantially different -Buserian is much more into celestial magic). IO is a Lunarised version of Buserian, so has a different set of allied cults, and some access to Lunar Rune magic and Sorcery.
  12. In practical terms, I think this more or translates from Western to Elasa script. i also don’t think it really ‘works’ flawlessly - translating spells from a Western grimoire is still really impractical without knowing Western, but a Lhankor Mhy who does know Western can relatively easily produce a version of the spell for other Lhankor Mhy to use. As far as corruption, not really sure if this is a real thing or not.
  13. Compare Cronisper, as fire energy descending from the Sky to mate with the Earth/divine power descending.
  14. i've got a headache now. I definitely would not classify Buserian, the Brown Man and Lhankor Mhy as "subcults" of a monomythic nameless scholar god.
  15. Thank you all for the additional perspectives on indexing! Thank you so much for bringing this into the mix. It's definitely been helpful, and has given me an idea on the sort of things that Lhankor Mhy cult factions could care about. More heroic Lhankor Mhy questions on my end! HGQ references the Alien Combination Machine (ACM) as a device that clears sorcerous texts from "corruption" so they may safely be used by Lhankor Mhy initiates -- what exactly does it do here? Are there actually any magical (mythical) properties of sorcerous texts that a theistic LM cult would be corrupted by? Does the ACM just add some theistic propaganda like a weird censorship device? I don't see why LM initiates would be negatively affected mythically here by using a sorcerous grimoire, if sorcery is as logical as claimed. On a related note, and I'm not sure how correct this is, I've gotten the impression from the Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha thread that LM is a subcult of a larger cult that includes Buserian and Irrippi Ontor. There's also this idea I've seen that what the God Learners learned wasn't necessarily wrong, and the monomyth is essentially true. So is it the case that mythically, there isn't divine reward or punishment for persuing a particular subcult, in the eyes of the god? Are all of the actual conflicts just between followers and their perception of the gods? (Did I just become Illuminated? My clan doesn't like me now -- how do I undo this, and make the gods separate again?) Do LM cultists have magical means to gain secrets from history, aside from personally engaging in heroquests, or learning indirectly from those who did? Have you had any heroic LM players who changed the face of your Glorantha, captured the light of knowledge, or tried to? What did they learn, and what did they use?
  16. Did you expand on the existing pantheon? We've got Soli, Big Eel, Old Turtle Woman and the Earth and Sun Spirits; then we've got the Three Crew, King Malukinda, King Thakinda and Erlanagga (whose yearly rituals are crucial!), and the Sleeping Underworld Gods (again with the yearly sacrifice). I bolded the ones that were mentioned under "Thinokos Tradition", which is classed as shamanic. Likely we've got some Aldryami gods poking their heads in there; the Elamle Ata are the Forest People, right? And of course there's likely some annoying Fonrit influence.
  17. I am seriously wondering precisely which cult your theist belongs to such that they have the type ability to respond to each of those situations equally.... Sure, some cults have some ability to answer those, and some spirit magicians can do the same to some limited extent. So, please... Give me the theist examples for each of the above... I don't know of anyone who can reliably respond to each random situation given. So, taking out on the poor old sorcerer is is unfair. Especially since we're talking about a *pure* sorcerer... Do *pure* theists or Spirit magicians have the same flexibility? I think you don't understand the straw man fallacy... Especially since you don't actually address specific points I make. This! This alone (although I'd been thinking it for a while) tells me you just have some sort of problem with sorcery in general. Maybe the RQ3 introduction left a sour taste in your mouth? But there's definitely something that says you'll never ever say a positive word about it.... Until, of course, there's a new scroll that needs translation* and interpretation, and you're the only one with Logician to translate it, and then to add to the extra knowledge skills to understand what it all means... So, sure, you won't have all your Sage skills super high to advance up the cult ranks... But you *can* have *EVERY* knowledge skill over 100%... Al(most) all Lore skills (don't understand why Spirit Lore is different...), every R/W, Battle, Bureaucracy, even herd and farm... And one presumes a similar spell for Communication skills can be created as well. (*Translation Rune spell gives you only 15 minutes...) To me, that screams flexibility far more than extra (fairly similar) effects from additional RPs spent. OMGs.... qualified slightly positive words... Yes, for many similar spells, the sorcery is going to be about half as powerful per point as Rune Spells - that's always been the case, along with spirit magic! MP vs POW... of course! (However, they can stack to higher than most theists would be willing to spend their RPs on...if that was even an option). Some individual spell effects, as written with the small amount we have currently available, are narrower... but again, you can create your own spells (even if they are at low starting values... but, average 10-15% magic modifier, add 25% or more from ritual practices, and you can attempt a casting with reasonable success fairly regularly (for a long duration spell). Law of averages, that spell will be cast! Add someone in the background who is chanting or singing (or, more likely, telling everyone around to shut up) for another 20% or more... 60% ain't bad! (add in the effects of sympathetic magic - season, time, magical objects etc... and it's looking at 100% or more... yes, I grant the rare circumstances of those all coinciding... although Day and Components aren't too hard to get right). Re: number of magical effects - which theist can access magics to ALL Elements? And to ALL Forms? Without having to slowly up-skill? Sure, it takes time, but this is where I consider sorcery much more flexible than theistic or spirit magic! Can they react as effectively to unplanned situations as well as theists or spirit magicians? Depends entirely upon the situation and the magician... Fundamental fact - no one individual is going to be able to handle every and all situations effectively by themselves (until they've hit real hero level)... So your "Clearly, they start far behind and stay there. " I disagree with! Especially if you take into account a party with 2 theists vs 2 sorcerers... if the theists have 3 RPs, then between them they have... 16 spells (12 of which are identical). The sorcerers can have 12 (or more) between them - all of them unique. What's more, those 2 sorcerers could (potentially) teach each other their unique spells - something the theists will never be able to do! (this is the definition of 'flexibility that I go with!)
  18. Ok, I am only halfway through my first read through... Which I think I will need multiple of them.... I got the idea with skill and trait, so far.. neat... and I guess some interpretation is left for the GM to decide (which trait/stunt use the same slot, hey?!) 😛 But on another completely different topic: Sword do D6 damage, average human has 6 toughness. Looks like human can't harm themselves! (But we are notoriously good at that! ) What am I missing? Also simplified combat doesn't seem to use toughness at all? Am I missing something else?! 😮
  19. The archived GSPendragon page is unable to direct the Hundreds link to the former maps, does anyone know where I might find these images? I did not see anything on the Nocturnal archive, and Google searches have turned up nothing. I'm also looking for a more detailed map of Rydychan to run the Usurpers for my players - I have the maps from GPC and Lord Domains - but was hoping to find something more detailed.
  20. Yelmalio has a lot of things, but friends isn't one of them
  21. In comparison, this woman is speaking in Shetlandic, which is difficult for outsiders, but is clearly intelligible to Standard English speakers: I chose this moment as it moves from English into pure Shetlandic and back again. She's being interviewed in English but after the poem ends she does slide in and out of Shetlandic, sometimes stopping to gloss the words she's said, and talking about how odd it is to be named the Poet Laureate of Edinburgh when she's Shetlandic and is printed as a writer in English, not Scots.
  22. better to say "Dutch and English are related but not mutually intelligible", perhaps, although that's going to be confused by fact that I think almost everyone I ever met in the Benelux Dutch-speaking areas spoke nearly flawless English and therefore they might not grok it internally. Or maybe Frisian and English. They're really, really close but you can't understand a damn thing. It's the closest language to English:
  23. I smell the work of a god learner, trying to prove that you're both the same god!
  24. Much like say German and Latin and Sanskrit are related but not mutually intelligible?
  25. Someone will have to discover the myth of how Yelmalio Got Wet. And then discover that Sparkling Dew Maid is their daughter.
  26. They do not seem to be at all associated with Pamalt. It's a very distinct culture, and very fragmented. I briefly ran a Maslo campaign and drew heavily on Filipino, Polynesian, and Indonesian traditions with some Mayan cultural ideas mixed in to expand on the existent myths of Thinobuto and Elamle-Ata.
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