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  1. The God Learners as such didn't emerge until fairly late in Jrusteli's pre-Closing history anyway. The Abiding Book didn't appear to/wasn't written by the Jrusteli magi until the 600s. Even then the God Learners don't really become a thing until generations later, after the Return to Rightness Crusade and the New Order of Sorcery laid the groundwork. Before then the Jrusteli magicians weren't powergamers, they were just zzaburi doing their normal thing among Malkioni societies that practiced a greater or lesser degree of henotheism based on local needs and inclinations. If the Jrusteli islanders worshiped Wachaza as their war god after the Dawn it's not so different from the way Seshnelans started worshiping Seshna Likita and had their line of sacred serpent-tailed kings in the First Age. Rather than the Jrusteli wizards being munchkins from the start, the progression I see begins with the Dawn Age Seshnelan settlers of Jrusteli taking that propensity for henotheistic Malkionism to their colonies, the zzaburi grumbling about the people acknowledging imperfect Erasanchula but getting by anyway. The capacity to recognize gods and spirits as other than devils probably helped the settlers come to terms with the original human inhabitants of Jrustela. Then the Abiding Book comes along, uniting the Jrusteli magi in ways they'd never had before. The Abiding Book took a much firmer line on dealing with gods and spirits, requiring purer observance of monotheism among all the castes, but the Jrusteli would've still had access to the sacred stories their culture picked up before the reformation. These stories return to prominence as paths to power for increasingly ambitious Malkioni sorcerous groups like the Free Men of the Sea, who seem to have directly weaponized old Jrusteli water myths to pull off the sorcerous inferno at the Battle of Tanian's Victory. From that point on the Jrusteli/Western/Middle Sea Empire approach to theistic myths and the God Plane only grows more cynical and exploitative, but it need not have always been so.
    4 points
  2. The God Learners' monomyth is also a nice decades-long joke at the expense of Joseph Campbell, him of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, which I appreciate a great deal.
    3 points
  3. There’s a good chance we inferred that for King of Dragon Pass. It was one of the earliest pieces when Greg Stafford was still approving all artwork individually. (Eventually he realized that it was all good, and stepped out of the pipeline.)
    3 points
  4. While Ken certainly is a RQ alumnus and put in some Glorantha ideas into Elder Scrolls, Vivec, CHIM (Illumination but not quite), Convention (analogous to the Cosmic Compromise) and whole bunch of the rest of the RQ references, and the crazier stuff in the setting (Kalpas, the Godhead) were written by Michael Kirkbride, one of the writers for Redguard, Morrowind, Knights of the Nine, and other in-game books afterwards. Yeah I was a fan of Elder Scrolls before I ever knew Glorantha existed starting with the Xbox version of Morrowind when I was a kid, got really into the metaphysics and lore of it later on. My thoughts still drift to the star-wounded east daily.
    3 points
  5. Hey BRP Forums, I know it might be difficult to think about recreation right now, but there may be an argument for needing exactly that to keep our SAN manageable. So, I hope you can get a positive feeling from this.
    2 points
  6. Yeah, the real history behind the elementary textbooks is somewhere between profoundly ironic and sad. But maybe it has a happy ending if we can just resist the known conversational land mines long enough to have an authentic encounter with the god of the west, invisible or otherwise. The whole SW Genertelan coast is blooming with radical archaeological discoveries . . . tying into your other work.
    2 points
  7. Right, I forgot the Olodo weren't autochthonous to Jrustela, they arrived via Waertagi dragon-ship in the Dawn Age from Slontos for a number of causes. Really shouldn't have surprised me that the author of "Beautiful Jrustela" downplayed their society.
    2 points
  8. They built at least four of the original Thirteen Colonies and others now lost to the record so while imperial historians would scoff at mud huts and thatch I prefer to entertain the notion that they preserved the lost urban civilization of Slontos wiped out in the Dawn Age floods. Of course a few centuries of aggressive colonial hegemony will force the remnants off island, up into the highlands or into assimilation as you note. The alternative is a Seshnegite presence on the island over a century before the Nralarites, which is definitely a possible convolution but renders a lot of "Beautiful Jrustela" overly opaque. Or we just abandon the 500 date entirely.
    2 points
  9. IMG "pure" monotheism is the historical exception rather than the rule and there was enough ruin & complexity in the empire that every one of these reconstructions is valid in its context. Consider it a version of the "Orlanthi All." And there's so much unexploded mythic ordnance left in the surviving records that any mention gets noisy. Trivia: any ur-proto-GodLearning on the island before the Nralarites arrive in the early 600s would have been in the Olodo cities for what that's worth. I don't think they had the kind of zzaburites we would recognize through the rokarist lens. That's interesting. And then there's that funny line that while a wave of brithini "tried" to settle the island a generation later, most were "recognized as being incorrigible" and were sent further down to Pamaltela.
    2 points
  10. Working on that now.
    2 points
  11. Yup, that's actually how I found out about Glorantha to begin with! Vivec, a living god of the Dark Elves in the Elder Scrolls, has "Lord of the Middle Air" as his title, as a pretty shameless nod to Glorantha, I can only assume, though in the Elder Scrolls it's more of a metaphorical title.
    2 points
  12. The beginnings of the Pendragon Resource site are now up. It's very "bare bones" for now, but I wanted the old Nocturnal Media forums available. Please ignore any "this site is insecure" warnings. It's on http not https for the time being, while some issues are sorted and there is no danger. http://greathall.chaosium.com You can find the old Nocturnal Media forums on the Archive page. Eventually they will be imported and all of the broken links removed and replaced. They can be browsed, but not searched at the moment. Trying to click Log in, View full site and Nocturnal Media forum will not work. If you've any questions please ask. If you want to get involved message me @Scotty or email david@chaosium.com with Great Hall in the subject.
    1 point
  13. With Ken on board now I must go and search out more details. Does anyone know if he is still involved. Vive, L’RQ Renaissance, Vive M. Rolston! And one might say I am a fan of Ken!!
    1 point
  14. The Olodo were Malkioni city-builders before the Seshnegi colonists arrived? My impression from Middle Sea Empire was of non-urban animists or theists in the rugged interior of the island, whose culture was absorbed and mostly erased by the expanding colonists.
    1 point
  15. I'm familiar with that reference. Here's the text for the thread, from p. 38 of the 2006 edition: Note how the term "God Learner study groups" is in quotation marks. There were several independent sorcerous societies coming together in the Jrusteli city-states in the 6th, 7th and 8th centuries, like the New Order named there, and the Free Men of the Sea who, after many reverses, ultimately broke the Waertagi monopoly on ocean travel. These sorcerous orders operated more or less independently, though after 646 their practices were guided by a unifying liturgy in the Abiding Book. The only group that ever called themselves the God Learners was the God Learner Collective, founded centuries into the history of the Middle Sea Empire in 845, a union of sorcerous societies dedicated to exploring (and manipulating) the God Plane. The main point that divides the true God Learners from their predecessor traditions is the God Learner emphasis on the monomyth, the idea that all theistic myth springs from a common and singular source. They were trying to break down theistic magic into its barest, most functional essentials in order to speed their heroquesting. It's this monomyth approach that led to the arrogant, exploitative treatment of the God Plane by the God Learners. Predecessor groups all manipulated forces from the God Plane--Malkioni have been heroquesting since Hrestol himself just after the Dawn--but they'd usually either abided by the old Arkati dictum, "No questing without respect or humility," or been destroyed by the forces they sought to manipulate. Presumably earlier Jrustelan henotheists were more respectful, but the God Learners lost that respect for the mythic world and simultaneously marshaled the power to avoid being immediately destroyed for their arrogance. They quested cynically and destructively into the God Plane, leading to disastrous experiments like the Goddess Switch. It's not precisely clear when the monomyth entered Jrusteli sorcerous practice, but it must've been some time after the Abiding Book was first written and promulgated because by the 9th century there was a faction in Jrusteli Malkionism called the Doctrine of Inerrant Delay (Abiding Book [RQ2] p. 7) whose whole deal was lamenting that the Book did not emerge a century later to solve the thorny theological question of the importance of converting the 'pagans' within the Middle Sea Empire to monotheism.
    1 point
  16. And that's fair -- I was actually thinking about it as I was writing my post. Although in my Glorantha, the Orlanthi range from olive to dark-ish skin, and are a blend of Viking/Celt cultural dynamics and north-Indian landscapes/nature and ancient daily life. Plus some random stuff I make up that I have no idea where it comes from (I'm not cultured enough to have a broad panel of historical influences so it's probably simply coming from my mix of westerner and african upbringing). So it's probably OK. Maybe. Especially if it's not even clear in my games who are the "good" guys anyway! I think where I'm coming from is that I don't know how players would react if I had NPCs tell them, say, that they've been captured and will "brought to the Sultan", and they have one picture in mind, but here comes a white guy in a toga called Sultan Remilius, surrounded by centurion-looking guards. It's... needlessly confusing. To make the confusion "useful", it feels like the Lunars would need more "Sultanish" things than just the one title. It doesn't have to completely overtake their depiction, though... when I was listing those few elements that came to mind, I should have said it was a "buffet" to pick from, not meant to all be applied. I think for my own tastes the "Sultan-ish things" would need to at least take, say, %20 of the general "Lunar picture". I'm not sure what it would be, or even what to think about all this yet (for me it might be easier to call them Satraps or Governors or whatever, and get done with it)... so apologizes if I'm thinking out in writing here.
    1 point
  17. I can see what you mean vis literary criticism. It is very existential. Consider though, running a CoC game where the BBEGod is entirely imaginary, and the magic only seems to work due to confirmation bias, and the players never actually see any monsters, they just get creeped out by the implication that they are there... but there are actually C'thulhu worshippers, and they are insane. It would be a very odd police procedural indeed. I'm sure many regular CoC players would find it completely baffling. Nevertheless it is really a bit more of an experiment than a campaign idea.
    1 point
  18. 1 point
  19. Sentient beings who have sex with goats, obviously.
    1 point
  20. In the Gate spell, the description reads "Creation of a Gate requires the permanent expenditure of POW in a sacrifice equal to the log to base 10 of the distance the Gate connects in miles multiplied by five." Firstly, this seems ambiguously phrased. Do you take the distance in miles, multiply that figure by 5, then calculate the log of that number? From the table apparently not (but see below), but restating the sentence into something like "...POW in a sacrifice equal to five times the log to base 10 of the distance the Gate connects in miles." or even just adding a comma to the original sentence after the word "miles" would clarify the meaning. Secondly, my knowledge of maths is limited, but a Gate connecting a distance of 100 miles (as per the table) should cost 10 POW, not 5 - the log of 100 is 2, multiplied by 5 is 10. Every distance entry on the table should be shifted down one, and the top line (POW 5) should be for a distance of 10 miles. Apologies if this has been commented upon before; I couldn't find a previous posting addressing the issue. Also, please point out if I've made an obvious mathematical error.
    1 point
  21. UTHER, p. 80: "Some titles given here appear as “abbot(-bishop).” The leader’s title is “abbot,” and the -bishop part indicates that they also have the power to make new priests, while most of the abbots do not."
    1 point
  22. I loved Knights of the Round Table! There's also BBC Merlin Merlin mini series
    1 point
  23. In self-reflection, that last word might do with an "r" inserted into the second position. That's occlusion for you.
    1 point
  24. Then there's the Lunar Empire, where in true pseudo-Roman fashion holding certain religious posts is a part of holding positions in the state bureaucracy.
    1 point
  25. Just trying to help a little here. Historically land given to the Roman Church belonged to the Roman Church and any surpluses would go to the larger church organization as a whole. So the abbot might have part of the surplus to the local Bishop, or Archbishop. Since British Christianity isn't centralized to the same extent, everything is kept more on a local level. It's much the same reason why the right to name the head of a chruch or abbey is more of a British thing than a Roman one, especially at the higher levels.
    1 point
  26. Listen here: https://blasphemoustomes.com/2020/03/17/a-warning-to-the-curious/ While we’ve wrapped up our discussion of ghosts, we haven’t quite left the spectral world behind yet. Or maybe it refuses to leave us alone. Once these spectres set their sights on you, they can prove vexingly dogged. We’re going to keep away from any Martello towers, just to be safe. This episode explores M R James’ classic English ghost story, “A Warning to the Curious”. England has an enduring love for ghost stories, and James is the towering figure in the field. We spend some time talking about the man himself and how his work has retained its appeal. Then we go digging for treasure in one of his best-known tales, looking for inspiration for our Call of Cthulhu games. We’re sure everything will be fine. Links Things we mention in this episode include: M R James Whistle and I’ll Come to You (1968) A Ghost Story for Christmas (BBC TV series) A View From a Hill Number 13 Whistle and I’ll Come to You (2010) The Tractate Middoth Martin’s ClosThe man himself Aldeburgh in Suffolk Martello towers “A Warning to the Curious” read by Michael Horden Redacted dates in fiction A Podcast to the Curious “The Stalls of Barchester Cathedral” “The Treasure of Abbott Thomas” The Coat of Arms of East Anglia Rendlesham crown The BBC Adaptation of “A Warning to the Curious” Church grims Black dogs Bungay black dog The boots The Babadook Hounds of Tindalos Ten Candles A Ghost Story for Christmas playlist No Diggin’ Here Folk Horror: Hours Dreadful and Things Strange by Adam Scovell Our folk horror episode “Three Crowns” by The Triple Tree from their album, Ghosts The Lost Crown video game “An Amaranthine Desire” from Nameless Horrors Dunwich in Suffolk News Ain’t Slayed Nobody Paul recommends Ain’t Slayed Nobody, a relatively new Call of Cthulhu actual play podcast focusing on Down Darker Trails. They are up to three episodes now and may branch out into other Cthulhu settings in subsequent shows. One Cut of the Dead on Tear Them Apart Our good friends Evan Dorkin and Paul Yellovich at the Tear Them Apart podcast recently released an episode about the marvellous Japanese horror film, One Cut of the Dead. You should seek this out even if you have no interest in found-footage or zombie films (especially if you don’t). It is full of surprises and pure joy. You should also go into it with as foreknowledge as possible of what you are about to see. And then you should listen to the Tear Them Apart episode about it. Voluminous: The Letters of H P Lovecraft And we have yet another newish podcast to recommend: Voluminous. Our good friends at the H P Lovecraft Historical Society are discussing Lovecraft’s copious correspondence, with each episode focusing on a single letter. And, as Paul mentions, who could be a better choice to present such a podcast?
    1 point
  27. Ken Rolston (who created the setting for Elder Scrolls) is an RQer from way back in the day (in the unlikely event that someone didn't know). If you look closely you can see Greg's fingerprints on it too.
    1 point
  28. I don't think he wants Wakboth back. However, when he is killed, the Monster Empire emerges, run by those who would use evil powers and they definitely would want to bring Wakboth back.
    1 point
  29. Said the Baboon shaman to the Pol-Joni warrior: "You are a menace. A walking pestilence.... The Wasteland was once a paradise. Your breed made a desert of it, ages ago."
    1 point
  30. Pegasus Plateau is in layout. Gods of Glorantha is in final editing and art commissioning. The RQ Starter Set is written and going through editing. The GM book is still being written. Numerous other scenario and sourcebooks are still in the writing phase. Specific ETAs not given because we don't have them yet, although the Pegasus Plateau might be done with layout around the end of March.
    1 point
  31. The Glorantha Sourcebook is merely repeating something that Greg's written about the Jrusteli for quite some time. Something that's important to understand is that the average Malkioni doesn't believe in the Invisible God - they believe the Wizards. The wizards practice sorcery but what the others practice is dependent on what the Wizards permit. Thus the Seshnelan warriors worship thinly disguised Hsunchen cults and so forth. So long as the Wizards practice the right sorcery and subscribe to the right ideas, all is well in the world. Thus the Jrusteli were quite happy with the worship of Wachaza among their warriors and Diros among their sailors. It is only when the Arkati combined sorcery with the active worship of big gods that the Jrusteli really became upset.
    1 point
  32. Except that (temporary) shelter-in-place & self-isolation is the ONLY technique we have that is effective. (If we hadn't screwed up initial test-production, we might have tried that method, like S.Korea did (to good effect); but we're so far behind that curve we may not be ABLE to catch up even if we get test-production fixed). This is neither panic nor conspiracy, it's fundamental disease-control. It has been well-known for many years. We just haven't had to face the realities of logarithmic disease-spread for so long that it's striking people as an unreasonable imposition on their "god given rights." This isn't a civil-rights issue, it's a public-health emergency.
    1 point
  33. Definitely for Griffin Island, which I found perplexing at the time in light of my familiarity with Griffin Mountain. At the risk of revealing a very obscure spoiler (Bill, look away -- I'm not going to use the code) they were odd Mostali, effectively in mecha suits. !i!
    1 point
  34. IT ... that's the one where things went horribly wrong at a call center?
    1 point
  35. I think that he's sleeping off the headache caused by being hit in the cranium by a steamship.
    1 point
  36. The 'Garfield minus Garfield' approach is very interesting, indeed. It can be used within a great many different genres as an analytical tool to tell us a great deal about the author, although perhaps little else.
    1 point
  37. Obligatory giant crab video: (Just imagine less gunpowder and zombie pirates and more green-skinned sea folk)
    1 point
  38. 'Duck' is an inaccurate and offensive slur upon the mighty Durulz! This is simply the standard approach of the entrenched anti-Avian Rune-ist system.
    1 point
  39. Yes, this is explicit in the rules. With Ancestors counting as worshipers for temple size, it’s far easier to maintain a DF shrine in your stead than any other cult. Supposedly, Ancestors with DF Rune points will be able to regain.
    1 point
  40. In the case of spirits like Umbroli they could appear during myths as minor storm gods or something like that. You're already bringing the other side to the middle world during worship, O don't think it'd be that hard for some spirits to join in.
    1 point
  41. Wyrms apparently worship Orlanth on occasion. I wonder if they have their own temples or if you have the occasional wyrm dropping into services.
    1 point
  42. There's no further published detail as far as I known. It's mentioned as far back as Cults of Prax:
    1 point
  43. In 13th Age Glorantha there's this Orlanthi troll, which rocks. A lot.
    1 point
  44. games overestimate the amount of money people actually had; women could wear a literal fortune as a fringe on their headdress. this was their own money, used to buy and sell their own items. this is Orlanthi society, and other more herding societies. when we're talking about societies with massive inequality, we're not talking about these kinds of societies. this would not be Lunar Empire custom in civilised places, because honestly the Lunar Empire is Mycenean and Akkad and Egypt. Here we have stratified societies and all the trappings: slave bodyguards, treasure vaults, poverty-stricken neighborhoods, all the joys of modernity!
    1 point
  45. Greg's daughter told me about a conversation she had with her father many years ago. She told him that she hadn't realized how poor they were when she was a kid. Greg's response was "then I guess I did a good job as a parent." In Greg's "Editorial Rambling" in WF1 he wasn't using hyperbole when he talked about them being so poor that they lived mainly off of vegetables grown in their garden, which is why it ended up in that Latin phrase. Greg always enjoyed gardening. There are glimpses of that in his writings about the Aldryami.
    1 point
  46. I believe S&S means "Sword and Sorcery" here. In other words, that standard cry of "fantasy's old hat, everything's a Tolkien rip off" that's still going strong today.
    1 point
  47. Side note: For many years we thought this manuscript was lost, as we only had photocopies of bits and pieces of it. We found the full original manuscript in late 2017.
    1 point
  48. The 50s Ivanhoe and the 82 Ivanhoe (what a cast) are my favorites. The BBC miniseries wasn't as good in my opinion. Don't forget The Knights of the Round Table. An excellent movie. Then there is Knightriders. I also like Arn: the Knight Templar.
    1 point
  49. This must be another of those English slang things Simon, but down here in Australia you would be saying that you are Hardy or Hardened, as in 'Toughness'. But what you wrote has other connotations here, none of which would likely increase your survivability chances in Prax, heh heh
    1 point
  50. So one might say they're culturally prejudiced, rather than religiously prejudiced? They don't like horses because everyone knows that horses are the foreign beast ridden by invaders. But when the Pol Joni and Zebra Riders join the Way of Waha, their religious devotion outweighs their beasts' weirdness.
    1 point
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