Jokum

Don't the allied spirits see in a similar way as per Second sight? ....and the priest can see what the spirit sees?

We have a shaman and a priest. So for scouting purposes the shaman discorporates and the priest sends her allied spirit with him. They are pretty much invisible to everyone but can get valuable information about the creatures they are about to face. And they don't have eyes or ears like corporate beings, so the perseption is different.

Do they sense inanimate objects? Somewhat, in our game. All elements are bound(or built) to certain Runes.

But how about undead? Animated skeletons? Vampires?

Book 2, p.33

Orngerin has the Spirit rune 60%.

Based on previous discussions, he shouldn't have this form rune.

... although, i'd like to see a broader view in using this rune. Or giving a possibility to use it as a condition rune or something like that for shamans etc.

What happens on a certain battlefield before, during and after the fighting?

Instead of the actual fighting, i'd like to know about the omens, weather, spirits, spirit world, if any magical properties maintain afterwards, what different cults see or do in such places, are they holy places etc. Or do the participants do something to restore the battlefield? ...like sending the spirits and ghosts away? How long would it take? Days or years?

Can someone in glorantha tell if a certain place is about to be the battlefield? Can someone tell if one place have been a battleground 100years ago? ...or 500 if they haven't heard about it before? Or is it possible to walk over it without noticing?

Are there certain magical effects before-during-after a battle?

11 hours ago, Corvantir said:

Isn't it simply because Grandfather Mortal was tricked by Eurmal and then because Orlanth used Death to kill Yelm and other ? Eurmal and Orlanth are both members of the Air Tribe. There are thus many reasons to prefer the Lunar and Sun Tribes, victims like Daka Fal.

Sounds plausible. Still, i'd like it if there was a clear reason for this instead of "read between the lines."

Daka Fal has grudges. Is it that then?

Ofcourse the deeds of the storm gods created the mortality.

For some reason i see the Daka Fal shaman much more powerful than Waha or Yelm shamans. With summon ancestor and Spirit teacher spells DF shaman has a source for a great POW stream. 

I suppose Daka Fal has small cults and is family bloodline oriented while the other shaman paths are connected to strong cults and thus have stronger support. 

DF deals with human spirits while others deal with elementals. ...or like Aldrya and Kyger Litor are somewhat limited to their associated spirits.

So how is it that Daka Fal is hostile to most cults in Orlanth pantheon but not Yelm or Seven mothers? (Cult compatibility RQ p.310-311) Even Yelm is not so hostile towards orlanthi. For some reason other cults are not so hostile against Daka Fal...

Is it all about this mortal vs. gods thing?

A mortal(?) judges the mortals before they can go to their gods?

Also, does the shaman ability to establish spirit shrines shake the cosmic compromise? For there is a path from mortality to godhood in there, if only a mortal hero would get enough worshipping.

On 4/11/2021 at 7:24 AM, Nick Brooke said:

Drew’s new initiations in “The Company of the Dragon” are beautifully written, and do a great job of presenting “Eurmal as Loki.” Seriously good stuff. Check them out?

I cant find this. Can you pinpoint where the Loki part is, please. ...or anyone?

I've fast read the book twice and the initiations with a better glance, but I noticed Eurmal mentioned only briefly...

I find this discussion interesting and helpful. Eurmal followers have been tricky(heh) for me.

Seems like theres a great variety: open and hidden followers. There are these lowly 3year-old -minded and there are Loki-type mastermind eurmali(i didnt read the Company of Dragon yet). Wouldn't it fit perfectly to Eurmal if no one could say what the actual type is and that it could be anything? In Boldhome they have this open clown aspect.

Orlanth desides to protect them for various reasons. At some point eurmali cross a line and need to reconciliate their deeds.

------

My wondering goes around the Eurmal shrine system:

How many aspects there might be in a city like Boldhome? I can notice at least three types of eurmali: the clowns, the entertainers and the criminals. Is it possible for them to use each others shrines? Thieves and murderers(just as entertainers) have their own cults but aren't there also such aspects of thief and murderer Eurmal? How would these different aspects and followers treat each other?

I still have no idea how becoming a shaman changes the play....

The Fetch sees(or is placed in) the spirit world and the shaman and fetch have constant mental connection. What happens If the shaman travels Dragon pass from edge to edge? Does he get double encounters? While he moves in the Middle World does he move simultaniously in spirit world too?

Would be nice to have some description how the perception of the world changes.

So the page 355 says it's a spirit combat with Bad Man, but gives only his POW and not his skill level. Nor can it be a roll by the resistance table because the chance would be minimal even with an apprentice POW 21.

What am i not getting here? 🤔

...but what will the boxed set be about?

I love the art above and wish there were lots of visualizations of archetypal characters from different cultures and cults. ...and design and architecture. ..and and... ...just keep it coming! 🤗

17 hours ago, David Scott said:

Just to clarify form the upcoming cults book - "All ancestral spirits are effectively cult spirits."

Daka Fal doesn't have any other - no spirit of retrebution or allied spirits. The shaman-priest does of course have a fetch.

 

 

Thank you for this clarification, but how should the summon cult spirit spell be handled versus summon ancestor?

Cult spirits (by the rule book) come with a variation based on the cult size: larger has more variation than smaller ones. 

"Petty deities, elementals, guardians, spirits of worshippers and other such entities" p.273

Also the places for the spell casting seem to vary. Summon cult spirit works in the holy places while the other summons could be cast anywhere.

Where would Daka Fal's holy places lie? Burial grounds, battle grounds, ancient family living places, current family home or even places in the Spiritworld?

I suppose DF cult spirits would be at least the spirits of worshippers(ancestors?), but what else? Id like to know.

51 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

It’s an interesting question what - if anything - makes up DF Cult Spirits, though. It’s not obvious.

Yes, the rule book also says the greater the god the greater the variety. Small cult would have less.

Althought, DF cult spirits could be family specific. Maybe burialground or necropolis guardians, servants etc.? Or maybe the greater spirits could be some of the siblings of Fleshman or their children?

On 4/18/2021 at 7:08 PM, Akhôrahil said:

I believe the argument is that if they're castable with Summon Cult Spirit, you don't need to learn the individual Summon Elemental spells.

(Apart from also being castable with a wider assortment of runes.)

It seems like the most common of cult spirits are elementals, while the variety of all cult spirits is much wider(p.273: ...petty deities, elementals, guardians, spirits of worshippers and other such entities). Bestiary gives at least two of non-elemental -cult spirits.

I quess the list would be long If all cult spirits were listed from all the cults.

There's somewhat of overlapping with the two spells. I noticed this a little time ago concerning Daka Fal: what is the difference between summon ancestor and summon cult spirit for them?

Might this whole cult spirit question be worth it's own thread?

Are there anywhere descriptions of Derik Poljoni's hero cult? I suppose he would teach at least horseriding. Spells could be battle related(against praxians?) and possibly something which would make co-operation possible between hostile tribe members? Do Poljonis worship him or was it mostly by Dundealos?

Interesting heroquest or even several of them could be forged out of his story.

Sorry for bringing this old topic up.

14 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Yes, you're correct, getting that bit mixed up. 😜

So, we have Flesh Man following his grandfather's trail into the Underworld and finds Grandfather Mortal there.  Is he yet at that point Daka Fal, or is it Flesh Man who helps Grandfather Mortal find and put on his mask, his robes, etc?  Perhaps it is Flesh Man who shapes the way that all who come must approach Daka Fal.

 

I keep up mixing all the time 😅 im not even sure If the myth is written in a few different ways. 

I quess the heroquest can jump in time and make the questers take roles according to it? So, maybe they start at Orlanths party where Death is presented to Grandfather. Then they start a journey to the Underworld with Fleshman. And finally some ancestor faces Daka Fal in his court.

I thought it was Grandfather mortal who became Daka Fal.... ....and Fleshman watched Grandfather die.

Grandfather then paved the path for the dead.

I'm planning a heroquest for our Daka Fal followers - shaman and an apprentice plus their friends and relatives. It would take place at the small Dundealosford -fort. ...my design for the fort would be the upwards spiral in air rune form, carved out of a rocky hill. I suppose there's also a willage nearby, called Dundealosford.

In our campaign the lunars corrupted the Poets Hill with lunar spirits and cursed the Dundealosford because it  didn't surrender fast enough. So, now the fort is full of ghosts still fighting against the approaching enemy and letting almost no one in. The Heroquest would be aimed to liberate the hundrets of ghosts and free the fort to be used by the living again.

I thought If the Quest would start in spirit world, but i quess that would be too complicated. ...maybe at The Daka Fal's fire. Or maybe just a symbolic reference in the middle world would do just as fine. ...possibly a big fire place in Dundealos fort itself. Getting there could be one adventure.

The HeroQuest would follow the steps of Grandfather mortal and Fleshman. So, basically it would contain many parts of the Lightbringer Quest. But i don't know what happened to Fleshman in the Underworld? I'm planning him to be left behind and judged by Daka Fal himself while others continue rescuing Yelm: A Little kid under Arachne Solaras net says Fleshman can't come back from the Underworld. Fleshman would  then be interrogated and the quest bonuses would be partly based on his answers.

Do you know any part from the myths where family and ancestors would be the central part of the story? I would add that in the quest If any proper is to be found.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

They don't. The RQ Bestiary says on page 164:

As neither are disembodied spirits, neither have the rune, their form is Man & Beast (or Plant & Man for elves). The fetch has the spirit rune and when the shaman travels into the spirit world they swap forms. Those using Discorporation magics can temporarily separate their spirit in to the spirit world, but it's a temporary form (unless they die).

The Shaman -Keronorl- of the Wild temple seems to have a spirit rune and i suppose he's human. Man 90%, spirit 75%.

In the Smoking ruins book.

Any movies or animations that has any similarities with Gloranthan spirit world worth showing to players?

I'm surpriced there's no easy to find "dream" sequenses of plains and campfires...

And how or when does an apprentice shaman gain the spirit rune?

33 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

This is what existed previously in RQ3. Not sure why this was taken out.

My book is from 2018 fourth Chaosium edition. I suppose it's different to RQ3 you talk about 🤔

https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-hardcover/

How about the rune spell - Spirit teacher?

You can use the summoned ancestor as the shaman's fetch and shamans are allowed to use their fetch's POW as much as they like(althought all genuine fetch's POW originates from the shaman).

This is another case where we had to think about the consequences whether one of the friendly ancestors would have a POW 25 or so and that would Be used on one of the enchantments.

So to keep the game world in balance maybe all of the sacrificed points needed to be negotiated somehow or something as written here:

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Well I will add an house rules :

- you succeed in a passion roll aligned with the purpose of the sacrifice pow

(Love customer or god dévotion or hate ennemy of the target...)

then you cannot sacrifice your pow because it is requested, you need an higher reason, a personal reason, a true conviction

On 12/21/2020 at 5:25 AM, Akhôrahil said:

I personally don’t think you have access to gods or heroes in your ancestral line, not with these spells at least. Every Heortling is going to have Heort and Vingkot in their ancestral line, but they have more important things to do. Hero-level ancestors should be cults or subcults, IMO.

I found a text that confirms your thoughts. Hero level individuals are no more reqular ancestors:

"They operate as immortals instead of ancestors, and receive their own sacrifices instead of partaking of the sacrifices made to the ancestors." Hero wars- Thunder rebels, p.95

There's also a description for the ancestor's day celebration p.94-95

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I personally don’t think you have access to gods or heroes in your ancestral line, not with these spells at least. Every Heortling is going to have Heort and Vingkot in their ancestral line, but they have more important things to do. Hero-level ancestors should be cults or subcults, IMO.

Yes, you're propably right.

I have this "trouble" all the Time: how to follow the rules of the game so we don't "accidentally" do something that would brake the game world balance?

Althought, some of the summoned random ancestors could be very powerful(5d6+6) compared to maximum human attributes. ...but that's not a deity level either.

Possible hero summoning could need a special task before it could be done. ....maybe even a heroquest level stuff.