Storm Khan

On 2/14/2022 at 10:58 PM, g33k said:

But -- regarding your Lunar NPC -- in places where Lunars are unwelcome:

• When they open their mouth to speak, I expect there will be an issue of "accent."
• The presence of Moon-Rune tattoos and ornamentation (embroidery, jewelry, etc) will mark them.
• The LACK  of "good solid Orlanthi/Ernalda/Lightbringer" tat's and ornamentation will also mark them.

So, yeah; it's entirely possible this will be an issue, at least sometimes.  If she acts quiet/shy, keeps her mouth shut, wraps up in a nondescript cloak and pretends to sleep a lot... maybe not much trouble.

I presume you're including the NPC to be a "feature" of the game, not a boring generic... so obviously there will be problems!

Thank you for your careful consideration of my ideas! This sort of thing is exactly what I have been getting at all along. 

On 2/13/2022 at 2:27 PM, Nick Brooke said:

Do you honestly think there’s a visible ethnic/“racial” difference between people born in the Kingdom of Lunar Tarsh and people from lands that were, in your grandparents’ lifetimes, part of the greater Kingdom of Tarsh?

Because in their parent's lifetime, the occupants of Dragon Pass have been subject to a campaign of Genocide - The Great Winter - by the Lunar Empire.

Tack on to that the fact that, at the moment of the game, Esrolia is at war with the Lunars, who no doubt will be fielding troops from LUNAR Tarsh.

Oh, wait, Esrolia has also just finished putting down the LUNAR Red Earth faction in a civil war.

You are ignorant if you think this wouldn't bring out the very worst human nature has to offer, include brutal interpretations of race and ethnicity.

Try picking up a book.

On 2/13/2022 at 3:11 PM, M Helsdon said:

Esrolia at this time is divided into three major factions, one Lunar friendly. Is she armed and armored as a Lunar soldier? If not, I doubt anyone will do anything. After all, she could be a trader, or have some other innocent occupation.

The Lunar, Red Earth Faction has been put down in a civil war by now.

Esrolia would still be tense; nothing like a round of brother-against-brother bloodletting to leave resentment. 

And then, add a Lunar occupying army fielding troops from, among other places, LUNAR TARSH, where this NPC is from.

Is this really your position, or is something else going on?

On 2/13/2022 at 3:14 PM, g33k said:

But also -- "Race" is an more-or-less artificial construct, as used these days; and frankly, it's mostly used by racists.

I watched George Floyd get suffocated in public. That was horrific. "Race" killed him. It is not artificial; you have to confront it, or, I guess hiding from it is an option.

Back to the ancients, the Romans sacrificed two Gauls, just locals, as their armies marched to face a coming invasion. If you don't think that was a message to the others in the community, you are foolish.

The word "barbarian" comes from the ancient Greeks mocking outsiders whose language, to them, sounded like "BAR BAR BAR . . . ," noise, that is.

If you don't think that the people of Dragon Pass, after suffering through the Great Winter, wouldn't be paying VERY close attention to anyone with a hint of Lunar allegiance, that is arrogant virtue signaling.

Noting you are ignoring the "Lunar" part in the Lunar Tarsh.

Noting "idiot" statement.

Noting you are ignoring the Great Winter part of my statement.

I think I know more about human history and nature than you do, way more.

You're a moderator? Great job.

Please, shut down my profile before I do.

C yah

9 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Frankly, I wouldn’t do anything to limit players’ choices regarding their adventurer’s appearance; and obsessing too much about pure racial genotypes is weird.

This question revolves, for me, around a Lunar Tarsh NPC. The time is early 1624. Memory of the Great Winter is fresh in people's minds and Notchet is still under siege. If she is readily identifiable as Lunar, how much danger is she in of being lynched by a furious crowd in Esrolia?  

I am ignoring your concern with me being "weird," for now.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

(R)ace is much less an issue than ancestry in both the biological and ethnic sense. (Unless you want to use the even more flawed Third Reich definition of race of the already deeply flawed US definition of race that continues the fallacies of the Imperial Age colonialism race theory which wasn't based on strict application of the scientific method but working backwards from an expectation of superiority.)

I have seen/read about flawed definitions of race driving horrific behavior.

My question ultimately is, in a world of a horrific Crimson Bat and a horrific Great Winter, is a flawed definition of race another kind of horror I want to introduce?

Arcane, an animated series close to my heart, does not have LGBTQ bias portrayed even though a central romantic plotline involves two women. I support that creative decision; it is among the best of any shows I have seen, animated or live-action.

Regarding all kinds of bias, it seems I have a lot of creative freedom in my Glorantha, too.

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

If you want.

Looking at the responses, I think that sums up Glorantha's position on race/ethnicity.

It is a question I needed to ask because I have a Lunar Tarsh NPC in Dragon Pass, 1624, travelling with Tarshites / Heortlanders / Praxians / Esrolians, and I need to gauge how much trouble she'll attract just by existing with the rebels.

Since it is what I want, I want her ethnicity to be something others have to detect with an Insite (Human) roll.

Rolls bring uncertainty, and uncertainty brings drama!

Oh, boy. Here is a lightening rod thread. Still, I have to ask: Do Lunars present a different ethnicity and/or race from the native inhabitants of Dragon Pass?

Would Lunar Tarsh present as a sort of "Mestizo" ethnicity/race?

Do Praxians share the same race as Heortlanders? Esrolians? Grazelanders?

Why not tackling racism in my game? I've always looked for trouble. Why stop now? 😏

So, after a lot of typing and reading and thinking, it is TIME to actual see if I can find players.

Are you in the Austin, Texas area?

This will be an in-person game at the store Dragon's Lair.

"It is the year 1624, Sea Season, and the Lunar Empire has the city of Notchet, the last stronghold of the resistance, under siege. Be part of a team of rebels dispatched to the war-weary Grazelands, intent on winning (or bribing) new allies and stopping the Empire from opening a second front."

Here is my meetup link if you want to RSVP:

north-austin-4th-edition-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha/events

I am starting my long-delayed game in 1624, too: Sea Season 

On 2/2/2022 at 1:53 AM, JRE said:

In the case of lunar cults, I wonder if their traditional status as enemy cults meant that they were cults you were intended to leave eventually, and join the plucky rebels... So no reprisal. Though it also fits with a culture of illuminati and cult mobility, with the lunar elite flitting from cult to cult as needed. To show them as munchkins that exploit the system, and the Lunar way allows them to do so...

Interesting thoughts. I changed the NPC's cult to Hon-eel's, since She has a history of human sacrifice and, in turn, is less likely to be free and easy with her former devotees.

9 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

Do they have any water worshiper? If not this will probably be entertaining.

I am encouraging Duck(s) and/or an Engizi Initiate(s). The PC's are pending, so we will see. I wonder what I should set as the move rate per MR for a canoe being paddled upriver by two people? I am thinking 6.

With no paddling, they drift backwards at a rate of 2.

I will be sure to brush up on those drowning rules . . . 🙃

Believe it or not, I have decided on a Selene ambush as my party paddles upstream on the Lyksos. Boat rolls, anyone? 

Super thread. Btw, who/what are the 47 Cannibal Virgins? They are mentioned in the backgrounds. Perhaps, I just need to extrapolate from the thoughts here, and keep it scary. 

20 hours ago, svensson said:

The Gods are vexed with your apostate and that should be made clear to him in the most direct terms.

I will write-up what I am planning. It is pretty direct. Why, btw, this enthusiasm for Lunes? Should I just lie? OK, OK, HERE's YOUR %^$&#$g LUNE! HAPPY NOW? 😏

18 hours ago, davecake said:

It’s actually pretty standard, and I think an important setting detail, that most Lunar Cults, including the Seven Mothers and all the individual Mothers, have no spirits of retribution. The goddess does want people in her cult(s) who do not want to be there.

Lunars are hard to interpret. I think The Red Emperor likes it that way.

On one hand, there is the "We are all us" doctrine, the insistence that we are all connected at some fundamental level. Fighting, in turn, is self-brutalizing futility.

I suspect, however, that what "We are all us" really means is, Submit absolutely.

That explains sending the Crimson Bat to force-convert 4/5's of a population and destroying utterly, spiritually and physically, the remaining 1/5, or declaring an empire-wide  holiday after inflicting the Great Winter - famine - on ALL of Dragon Pass.

The idea of no sprits of reprisal slams up hard against these atrocities; I plan to have spirits of reprisal for my Lunar Cults to make them as brutal as everyone else and then pile a thick layer of hypocrisy over that. Yum-yum! That should drive my PC's into fits and spasms. I can hardly wait. 😃

On 1/29/2022 at 6:03 PM, Bren said:

I wouldn't have the Lune chase after the character. I'd have the Lune appear adjacent to the apostate by sliding down a beam of red moonlight, vertically growing up out of a patch of moonlight on the ground, stepping through the moonlight shining on a wall or mirror as if through a door, or have a patch of moonlight break off from or step away from its location and unfold itself into the shape of a Lune. Make the spirit of reprisal's appearance weird, eerie, something that violates the usual rules or expected behavior of moon light.

Cool imagery. 

1 hour ago, svensson said:

@Storm Khan

Well, a Lune would be harder to detect in an area of intense Red Moon magic... say within the Glow Line in Sacred Time... but otherwise yes, it's a red glow.

But Spirits in the Spirit Plane don't abide by Middle World rules of speed, gravity and so on. In your game situation, the Lune appears whenever you want it to, usually at a time that's HIGHLY inconvenient for the apostate. Such times usually limit the apostate's movement and therefore the Lune can initiate spirit combat whenever you as the referee want it to.

True. Ultimately, it comes down to my sense of aesthetics as the GM.

1 hour ago, svensson said:

By the by, the OP discussed a Lune having a Move of 6 and that it wasn't good 'hunter' material because of that. I've always had the understanding that Gloranthan elementals are primarily spirit creatures that temporarily inhabit a body of their element when summoned. However, I was recently corrected about my understanding of what constituted 'undead' in the game, so I decided to ask about elementals specifically [link to thread below].

If elementals are natives of the Spirit Plane, then they can appear and engage in spirit combat much faster than a human can run or ride anything.

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/15493-elementals-spirits-or-corporeal-beings-in-glorantha/#comment-243446

 

I understand that anything materializing from the Spirit World has to wait a melee round before attacking, so my NPC would have a free round, as long as she stays in the Middle World.

P. 366 "If a spirit wishes to attack a corporeal being, the spirit makes itself visible in the Middle World the melee round prior to its first attack. . . . If both combatants are already in the Spirit World, there is no delay."

As a spirit of reprisal, it would be sent by the deity, not summoned.

A Lune, furthermore, is a bright blob of red light. They don't blend in, like a water elemental in a pond might.

A Selene is much harder to perceive but not immediately lethal. A person could run away.

Interesting consideration, though, for someone getting ready to open a table.

An elemental ambush is possible if that elemental is more natural that a Lune and summoned by a priest or whomever.

What say you others?

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

you may make your npc more than just apostate. something explaining why she became apostate, and it may help you to explain the type of "demon"

She may have dirsupted a chaotic sacrifice -> send a chaotic monster as reprisal (not necessarily a very dangerous one)

She may have prevented a tax collector to do his job ->send a tax demon (very nice to "remove" some pc items)

 

etc...

She becomes an apostate during the siege of Notchet, behind the Lunar earthworks. A gang of Lunar soldiers attempt a gang-rape when the PC’s blunder into the unfolding violence, hopefully interrupting. 
 

They better interrupt, or I have the wrong players. 
 

A spirit of reprisal reflecting this event is the stuff of a horror movie. 

6 hours ago, EricW said:

Quote (Cults of Prax)

I think you can send pretty much whatever you want after your NPC. Maybe a lune? Of course, there must be a reason why the NPC is so important to warrant special treatment 😉

No spirits of reprisal for 7 Moms? Naw. Ignoring that, because the GM says so. 😀

Having a spiritually crippled NPC is not interesting, but I like the distrust part. Something to role-play. 5% per month is too steep  

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

It depends on the offence, but a small demon should be OK.

More serious offences should have more serious reprisals.

The writeups of Yelm and Lodril in White Wolf, reprinted in Cult Compendium, had some pretty meaty Spirits of Reprisal, as I recall.

What I like about the current edition is that these spirits are dispatched against apostates, no matter what. So, I have my NPC reject her cult on grounds we would find very rational, but she still has to fight for her life. 
 

Side bar, the spirits are my favorite part of the Bestiary. 

5 hours ago, EricW said:

Quote (Cults of Prax)

I think you can send pretty much whatever you want after your NPC. Maybe a lune? Of course, there must be a reason why the NPC is so important to warrant special treatment 😉

I considered a Lune. It’s movement of 6, though, makes it in ineffective chaser. This could become a foot race instead of a confrontation, a race my antagonist will likely loose. 

So, I have an initiate NPC that renounces her cult membership in The Seven Mothers.

I was thinking of having a small demon come after her; if the party takes her under their wing, it would be a decent encounter.

On the other hand, something I have read LONG ago is scratching away, suggesting that a spirit of reprisal shouldn't have claw at 50% with 2d6 damage: Too much.

Opinions are appreciated.