Cassius

@Super Thunder Bros. : You may find my description of an adulthood initiation in a Sartarite clan useful. This whole thread contains some good ideas on the topic, by the way.

I see this initiation time a little differently. These boys, who are no longer children and not yet adults, experience the frontier during their adulthood initiation. The physical frontier of the clan or tribe: this is where they set up camp and live most of the time. The frontier of humans and gods. The frontier of law and illegality. They're not outside the law, in my opinion, but on its edge. They must learn to respect the common law, while being given the freedom to transgress it. Savagery and violence are what they must resist to become full adults, to become truly Orlanthi.

You could also make your request on the Chaosium Discord. There is a 'LFG Glorantha-RQ-HQ' channel.

Any Chaos' god fits well. Why not Malia ? She certainly has Spirits of Disease under her command, who can infect crops, poison men and women and make them sick or sterile.

Or, alternatively, ritual is the alphabet, heroquesting is the sentence ? (And the sentence must obey the syntax, use the proper words, as they should be written, but inevitably introduces variation and invention, however slight, into these constraints.) I like your analogy, anyway.

Yes, I've thought about that. And I thought we could imagine some sort of family burial vaults for most people, and individual burial vaults only for those most important to the clan or tribe.

A very interesting question. I'd never thought about it. I would have said that there is a difference in funeral practices depending on whether the person was a follower of Orlanth (and his associates) or Ernalda (and her associates): the corpse of the former is burned, the corpse of the latter is interred. For the former, part of the ashes are collected in an urn. This urn may itself be kept in the family's home or buried in its stead. Or it may be kept or buried in a place shared by the clan. For Ernalda's initiates and associates, the corpse is laid to rest in a deep burial chamber beneath Ernalda's temple. I imagine that Ernalda's temples always (or almost always) have basements.

Could we add to this list brandys, liquors and other fruit alcohols, made from apples (like Calvados), pears, plums, etc.? Do distillation techniques exist in this part of the world? At first glance, it seems a Mostali thing.

Then something like cuisine of the West Indies would be just right.

What an enthusiastic presentation! And... I want the postcards too! 😁

The Red Cow Fort may surely be the most suitable for your purpose. And why not stone walls ?

It's in the Adventures book of the Starter Pack.

If I were them, I'd refuse. It would waste too much of their time. And administration being administration, they might get the reply: "This person has not been assigned to our services, please contact the military command in Pavis." 😁

If compared, it would be with a Sartarite town : cities are bigger. In Sartar, the smallest may be Alone, 1200 inhabitants. The only town* description I can remember is Red Cow Fort (600 inhabitants) in the Red Cow campaign (vol. I, The Coming Storm, p. 21-28). Details, maps and plans I know are for villages, hamlets (Apple Lane, Mernyr's landing) or cities (Jonstown, Clearwine). *: Oh, there is Runegate too (900 inhabitants), in the GM Screen Pack, p. 65. I'd say crossbows are only known and handled by (some) dwarves (and by Leonardo in the God Forgot isles, for sure 🙂).

As g33k, I emailed the retailer. I received the pdf by email.

Yes, I really liked the way Jeff played the character! One thing among others that can help with Argrath's roleplay is to tell players about the respect and even devotion that others have for him, especially the people in his surroundings. Describing the humble attitude of a great Praxian Khan towards Argrath is a good way of conveying his charisma.

Oh, I was wrong. Reading the NPCs sheets in The Pegasus Plateau, I realize that all initiates and priests know "all the common rune spells" of their cults.

It's not an easy sentence to interpret, but here's how I understand it. It doesn't mean that an initiate can write on their character sheet "Common rune spells" and cast any of them during the game. But they have access to all of them at once during their initiation and doesn't need a special ritual to learn each one individually. Initiation is the global ritual, the "mini-HQ". However, access is not possession, and they must accomplish something to actually know such common rune spell. But they can change it during a ritual (which doesn't have to take place in a temple on a holy day - it's one of the uses of the Worship skill), and they don't need to go through the teaching of a priest, whereas they do when it comes to the special spells of the cult.

This also bothers me in the OP's reasoning. "Pelorians" and "Orlanthis" do not seem to me to be two comparable terms. It seems that a fairer comparison could be made between "Sun-gods worshipers" and "Air-gods worshipers" or, as Jeff does in one of his replies, between "Pelorians" and "Dragon Pass-Orlanthis". So, if we're talking about "Sun-gods worshipers", we need to include not only Pelorians but also Pentans, Pure Horse people,Yelmalite communities, and no doubt others. Similar remarks could be made about the fixed and restricted definition of a hegemon and an empire. Even if they have never historically experienced the success of other peoples and cultures, it seems true to me that the Pelorians are a center of hegemonic power in the sense that they are always trying to institute and extend their political organization and cults imperially. This is not the case for all Glorantha peoples. While it's true that no "Sun-gods" empire has had the duration and extension of the Arkati and EWF empires, I find it hard to call the latter two empires of Orlanthis or Air-gods worshipers. In particular, the EWF does not seem to me to be Orlanthi either in terms of its religion or its political organization. It has Orlanthi origins, for sure, but has not remained so. That's why Orlanthis fought to bring it down, just as Orlanthis contributed to the fall of Arkat's empire. The OP seems also to have too narrow an understanding of what "Orlanthi" might mean in the Guide. In my opinion, it is a term that is a simplification and loosely designates a set of cultural traits common to different peoples and communities. As Jajajgappa points out, the Orlanthis of the Lunar provinces are certainly not evidence of a failure in the cultural assimilation of the Lunar Empire. They are no longer Gauls, not yet Romans, but Gallo-Romans. Finally, the OP places the alleged rationality of our world states and leaders, where gods don't exist, on those of Glorantha. Why didn't Sun-god worshipers convert en masse to Air-gods after realizing that they were and will be the eternal losers of history? Well, because they certainly don't have the synthetic view of Glorantha's history that the Guide gives us, because they don't see themselves as losers, and because their gods really do exist, supporting, judging and punishing them. Neither the Pelorians nor any other Glorantha people are rational calculators, or, to put it another way, their rational calculations include the reality of their gods. If I leave Jove to worship Mithra, nothing happens to me. I have no interest in trying to do the same with Yelm, Lodril or Yelmalio... At the end of the day, the OP doesn't like this part of Glorantha's history and would rather play CoC than Runequest. This is not debatable. I wish them nice games!

It's a good question and I don't know if there's an answer in the RAW. However, "an adventurer gains access to all common Rune spells available to the cult at initiation - there is no need to gain each spell individually!" (Mythology, p. 137 - book). So there is no "mini-Heroquest" for each spell. Learning a rune spell is linked to initiation into a cult. Being a lay member of a cult does not give access to rune magic. That's why I believe that young men and women, during their period of adulthood initiation, don't have any rune spell. If I understand correctly, SSiS is an exception in that the characters are initiated into the wyter cult, which gives them access to a rune spell. I wouldn't say that all wyters allow you to learn a rune spell, and I'd even say that it's quite rare. Normally, a wyter can only cast rune spells known to his priest (the clan chief, for example).

Sounds good to me. If we assume that the period of adulthood initiation lasts roughly two years from age 14 to 16, that's one spell point of spirit magic per year, to reach five points at age 21. Between the ages of 16 and 21, the young man or woman has certainly been initiated into a cult and may also have learned runic spells.

At the end of that year, the band of young men was accompanied by the clan chief and two of his warriors to the place of tribal power. The chief and his men were mounted on horses, while the boys walked on foot, carrying a heavy pack; mules, equally laden, completed the crew. At the same time, other groups of young men were on the march from the lands of other clans. They all found themselves at the foot of a small hill, a few miles from Fox Hollow. At the top, a large tent had been erected, and a sort of dais with heavy carved wooden armchairs and animal skins. The tribal king sat with his council. To ascend, the young men took a path up the hill and passed between armed warriors standing on either side. When they reached them, the warriors pronounced harsh judgments on their bearing and equipment. "This one holds his spear as if it were a bundle. "This one is so frail that with the slightest breath, Orlanth will lift him up and make him disappear into the clouds". "They look as if they left their mother's skirts yesterday, how will they be able to defend the tribe?" At last, the young men appeared before the king and his council, looking humble and slightly fearful. The clan chief and the tribal king greeted each other at length, each recalling the other's ancestry and deeds, and then the former delivered the boys to the latter to serve him for a year. Then each young man stepped forward, said his name and presented his weapons to the king, who inspected them before concluding: "These are good weapons that will serve the Culbrea". Finally, each man presented his right arm, and the king, after dipping two fingers in a bowl filled with a sort of liquid blue paste, drew two long lines from the shoulder to the wrist. "Between these two lines will be written the story of your deeds in honor of the tribe. Make it rich, Theogharl, son of Senseros, of the Elk clan." A hundred young men finally gathered before the king and his council. The warriors and clan chiefs now formed a silent circle around them. Then the tribal king turned his back on them and raised his head and hands to the sky to address Orlanth. He commended the young men to the god, asking him to subject them to trials and thus teach them courage and justice. At the same time as these words, pronounced in a strong voice, shook the souls of everyone, the sky was rapidly covered with dark clouds and a powerful wind rose. Then a heavy rain suddenly fell on the assembly and thunder began to be heard. All the warriors, clan chiefs and the king himself drew their swords and raised them to the sky, crying out in a powerful, unanimous voice: "Orlanth! Orlanth! King of the gods!" The lightning then struck the hill several times, sparing all the men as it was attracted by standing stones adorned with runes. The Culbrea community of young men was formed. Tents were set up at the foot of the hill, one for each clan. This is where the young men would stay for a season. The first days were devoted to the election of the community leader under the supervision of a Lhankor Mhy priestess, who also taught them the rules and customs. Candidates had to demonstrate their fighting, dancing and speaking skills. It was a joyous moment full of shouts, boasts and challenges. The rest of the season was devoted to military training under the guidance of the king's finest weaponthanes. For Theogharl, this period was extremely arduous. Each day exhausted him, his hands covered in blisters and splinters, his aching arms bruised. "Hold your shield higher! Don't lower the tip of your spear! Move faster, it looks like Ernalda is holding your feet to the ground!" his instructor told him curtly. At the end of the season, the best of them were given a sword. He didn't receive one. But he had definitely made progress in his weapon handling. One day, they had to leave. The community of young men had to travel all over the tribal lands, greeting each clan chief, responding to their challenges, protecting the borders, detecting enemies and destroying chaos. That was their promise. It was a long year for Theogharl. During each season, a week or two was devoted to weapons training. Each clan taught a particular technique. With the Elks, they learned to hunt dangerous beasts in the foothills of the Quivin Mountains with their bows; with the Owls, they learned to conceal themselves in the environment and attack by surprise; the Barlamani were specialists in skirmisher attacks; the Lorthing taught how to hold a line of shields and encourage each other with war cries. The rest of the time, they patrolled in small groups at the edges of clan territory, where only a few isolated houses could be found, sometimes just a hut inhabited by a hunter or a Kolati shaman, and other times nothing but streams, animals and trees. They defied a band of Cinsina bandits who had come to raid their cattle. They seized, without violence but not without mockery, the shipment of an Etyries merchant who had been unwise enough to take the side roads to gain time. They even fought off a band of wandering broos and killed three of them. But when they came across a group of dragonewts, they were cautious, and fled altogether when two of them appeared to grasp their strange weapons with a very slow movement. Theogharl made a friend among the boys of the Red Vireo clan. Like him, Darestos preferred the jousting of the mind to the clash of weapons. He knew the rudiments of writing and taught them to Theogharl, who in return taught him what he knew about birds and plants. But something broke between them when they had to compete in a riddle contest that Chief Rastulf of the Barlamani clan had issued as a challenge to the community of young men who had come to visit him. Theogharl solved the last one and was carried off in triumph by the boys of his clan. Between the two blue lines drawn by the king, this was the finest achievement to be inscribed on his skin by a tattoo. His heart swelled with pride, but Darestos' now closed gaze put an end to his joy. Finally, this long year came to an end. The tribal king, in the same place where their community had been formed, pronounced its dissolution. And Theogharl and his companions returned, accompanied by the clan chief and his warriors. This time, however, they were no longer young men being taken to wherever duty called them, but as equals, as full-fledged adults, as men. And the warriors and the chief eagerly questioned them about their experiences, laughed at the stories they told and gently mocked their overstatements. At the end of this road home, there would be their parents, whom they had left two years earlier. There would be a feast in their honor, with grilled meats, pâtés, vegetable stews and beer. And, as the warriors liked to remind them, there would be the women, who had also completed their initiation, waiting for them with fruits, lowers and words of challenge. They would form a circle around them, praising their courage, inviting them to dance and sing. (To be continued : when Theogharl was initiated to the Lhankor Mhy's cult)

And perhaps this is what 20-year-old Theogharl, son of Senseros, initiate of Lhankor Mhy and apprentice scribe at the Jonstown Library, is thinking about when he recalls his years of initiation. When he was 14, his father declared him ready for adulthood, as his voice had begun to change and hair was growing on his chin. One night, strange, masked forms abducted him and took him to an unknown place where other frightened boys were. There was a fire, lots of sweet-smelling smoke and regular drumming. He was thrown into a pit, where he met some Ancient Spirits who rebuked him bitterly. But he knew everyone's name, and they had to set him free. Later, he was defeated by an enemy who was also the enemy of mankind. But he wasn't dead, and Orlanth welcomed him to his stead. The god invited him to eat and rest. As he ate, what looked like a very old man, in a simple grey woollen robe, his face almost shrouded in the shadow of a deep hood, came and sat down beside him. With a thin finger, the man pointed to a bee buzzing in the room, then to a honeypot on the table, then to a candle burning. "What do you see?" he asked. Theogharl replied, "The same thing". "What word pierces the veil of change?" "The truth," he said. "I know who you are, and I'll call you." Then the old man rose and the boy fell into a deep sleep. The following year, he was with other boys from the clan, living in the hills. That first night, shivering with cold and unable to fall asleep, he wept silently, thinking of his mother. Among the boys, he was one of the youngest, one of the puniest. Some of them were rude, brutal even, but luckily there was also a cousin among them who protected him from their ill-treatment. At first, he didn't like anything that others liked: he didn't like running, he didn't like bragging, he didn't like fighting, he didn't want to steal cattle, get drunk, swim in cold water, shoot animals with a bow. "You're no good at anything," his cousin snapped. Then, one day, the one who had established himself as the leader of their group announced to them by the fire that they had to give themselves ten rules of life and promise to follow them scrupulously. Then Theogharl stood up and declared: "I can say the laws, remember them and call them to mind". And he listed the first, the second, the third and then all of them as if he'd been preparing them for days. Everyone agreed they were good laws. People came to see him more often to consult him. What was this stone and why did it have red veins? Was it true that the stars were holes in the sky through which gods watched over people? Why was the serpent cold-blooded? And what was the meaning of those writings found on a moss-covered stone? When he didn't know, he put his forefinger on his chin and declared in as low a voice as he could that there were mysteries he couldn't reveal. People believed him or pretended to, sometimes laughed at him, but at last he was respected. (To be continued)

This is what I wrote in another thread : I follow much of what Jeff describes here. I'm also inspired by what Greg said on the topic Among the clans of the Culbrea tribe, in my Glorantha, these two years are divided like this : the first one is for the clan, the second one for the tribe. The first year, for the young men, is devoted to "life in the hills". They're expected to know how to fend for themselves, and are taught only the basics if they don't already know them, so there's little adult supervision. From afar, clansmen look after their safety if they think it's in danger. Sometimes, young men are entrusted with missions that are more honorary than useful. Perhaps they are invited to the clan's great worship in honor of Orlanth, or they are sent an Initiate who performs the cult, teaching the gestures, words and songs that please the god. Within this band of ten or fifteen boys, roles and hierarchies are naturally created, friendships are forged and grudges are born. There are always one or two who declare themselves leaders; one is particularly adept at hunting; another quickly recognizes which plants are edible, which stones are useful for making fire or tools; yet another knows how to put an end to conflicts when tension rises in the group; most simply enjoy fighting, adventure, cattle raiding, singing and getting drunk around the fire camp. This is no accident, but follows the Revelation of his True Self that each boy experiences at the end of the adulthood initiation rite. In the second year, the various groups of young men from the different clans of the Culbrea tribe are assembled before the Tribal King and his council. This new large group of young men must visit each clan land, introduce themselves to each clan chief, and take up the challenges proposed to them. In exchange, they receive military and "religious" training. Individuals and groups must show solidarity with one another ("We are the Culbrea!") and outdo one another in the inevitable moments of competition ("We are the proud men of the Elk Clan!"). It's a very demanding year, a year of training (formation / Bildung). At the end of this year, the Tribal King pronounces the dissolution of the group. The young men return to their clan, where a great feast awaits them; they see their parents again, whom they haven't seen for two years. The young women have also completed their initiation period. People are eating and drinking, and couples are forming. Children will be born. And so begins their full adult life. It's time to step out of the fringe and take their place in the life of the community through their work and their devotion to a god.

In my opinion, adulthood initiation, and therefore full membership of the clan, comes between the ages of 14 and 16: it includes the day of initiation itself, with its trials, as described by SiS for example, plus the two-year period in the hills (for boys) or in the service of Ernalda's temple (for girls). During this period, they can be considered lay members of Orlanth Adventurous or Ernalda. They have no spiritual or runic magic. It's at the end of these two years that young people are fully and completely accepted as adults of the clan. It is also at this point that they choose to become an initiate of a particular cult, according to the revelations they have known on the day of their adulthood initiation and the experiences they have had over the two years since.