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TrippyHippy

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Posts posted by TrippyHippy

  1. If you are somebody that feels that Runequest: Glorantha possibly rushed in a few too many bells and whistles in the rules and setting detail, too early, then Classic Runequest certainly feels simpler by comparison. 

    The main issue to overcome with Runequest 2 are the character generation rules which kinda leave you hanging in terms of giving early background experience. The skill levels are very low and, while there is an appendix to provide some loose rules eventually, the implication is that you either take out a Traveller-esque mortgage to get some type of training from a Guild or Cult, or you simply start as a callow and mostly ineffective 16-year old.

    I’ve ended up trying to make a hybrid of RQ:G and RQ Classic to play.

     

     

     

     

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  2. 27 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:
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    It not tangential when you have a page count. One nice thing about FATE is that a new player can download an SRD and play a limited version of the game.  Or even use FUDGE. 

    It is tangential and I have asked you stop. 

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    But there is evidence. The evidence that Worlds of Wonder did not become a major system, or get any support. While Greg admitted that he didn't always make the best business decisions, I'm sure he and the others at Chasoium would have support (or at least reprinted) Worlds of Wonder had it taken then gaming world by storm. It didn't.    

    That is an assumption without evidence. You are assuming that it wasn’t supported because of lack of sales, as opposed to the other way round say, and as we don’t actually know what the sales figures were there isn’t anything to back up that assertion. Chaosium may have just surmised that they wanted to focus on other games or didn’t really know how to go about supporting it. As pointed out, it never received ongoing supplemental support so it is pure speculation as to  how successful it could have been if it had.

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    That's not the same as needing mini-settings. There are many types of "supplemental support".  Changing from mini-settings to "supplemental support" is moving the goalpost. It would be like my saying that people need steak to live, then backing it up by saying people need food or their starve to death.  Yes they need, food; no they do not need steak per say.

    I haven't shifted any goalposts and your argument here is being disingenuous. I am saying, perfectly consistently, that the game needs supplemental support and the use of mini-settings is the best way of supporting the game quickly and effectively. I have not been arguing that it is one thing or the other but mini-settings should be prioritised as they were effectively with Fate. 

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    Yes, but that doesn't mean they will sell as well as more fleshed out setting or scenarios. 

    The sales of the supplements are secondary to the sales of the core rules. You will note that in the case of Fate, most of their mini-setting supplements were free or PWYW. They weren’t making money from the supplements, but from the increased sales of the core rules because it was perceived as a well supported line.

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    No, your arguing (well arguing is probably too strong a word here. How about your in favor of?) that mini-setting are needed, and that they are the fastest way to support the game. I don't agree. I think the fastest way to support the game it to come up with one good setting (size variable) with lots of adventures. There are a lot more adventure supplements than mini-settings. 

    You seem to be implying that mini-settings can’t be good settings? That is an immediate point of contention. Long supplements do not necessarily make for better settings. In fact, if you are looking for something quick and easy to run, they can be a major turn-off. Indeed, much of my experience is that longer setting supplements often lead to criticisms of why they weren’t just released as stand-alone games. 

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    Agreed. That is exactly;y what happened with the BGB. But to be fair, who are the ones who should be doing that? I mean there is nothing stopping any of us from making supplements for BRP, of any size. That not many have done so, as of yet, could mean that the system doesn't appeal to potential authors as much as some other systems, or that the ORC license hasn't been around long enough for much to be written. If you think about it, Mythras got most of the BGB's mini-settings, because of the old license.  ORC opens things up, but now a lot of the authors have migrated to Myhras, D100 Revolution and so on.

    My encouragement, to third party sources or Chaosium themselves is to support BRP in the best way possible by demonstrating the game's versatility. This means having a wide range of diverse settings to play - and the most effective way of doing this is get plenty of mini-settings quickly out, rather than spend years trying to develop major setting supplements which would likely get de-prioritised anyway for other game releases. Over time, I’d like to see a range of supplements - big and small, however it is a question of priorities for a new edition that has only just been released. 

     

     

     

    • Like 1
  3. 46 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

    FATE is a lot lighter than BRP. You don't have pages of weapons tables in FATE. FATE does everything with a FUDGE die roll and the ladder. FATE also has (or at lead had) a free SRD. 

    BRP has a 260+ page rule book (previously over 400 [pages). So not as light.

    Now BRP once was very lite (16 oppages or so) and in that form it might work in 50 pages or less.

     

     

     

    No, and neither does anybody else. But if it sold as well as any of the other games, it would have gotten support. 

     

    Yes, but what does have to do withit being successful. Yeah, you might like it. I liked it too, and Jason Durall has noted that he likes it. But that didn't mean that it was a major success. 

    It got no support. The Superoworlrd boxed set was essentially a new edition. 

    Yes, enitrely speculation - your. You are the one speculating that it could have been more successful, if they had done something differently. But you have no evidence to support that view.

    It faded because it got no support whatsoever.. Not only that but it's fourth setting, Viking World, was moved over to RQ3 instead. One of the big differences between GURPS/HERO and Worlds of Wonder is that the former two game systems were full fledged games, while WoW wasn't. BRP (at that time) was a trimmed down version of RuneQuest. So if someone wanted something more than what came in WoW, they went to RQ.

    The original WoW was interesting because it pushed the envelope for the RQ game system. It added superpowers, and science fiction, and a standard FRPG fantasy world (which was new to RQ). Today all that as been done with BRP. To move the needle any similar product would have to add in something that hasn't been done in BRP before. 

     

    You're moving the goal posts. There is a huge difference between mini-settings, and  supplemental support. Yes, it needs supplemental support, all RPGs do. But what it needs is adventures. That's what sells RPGs.

    As you pointed out BRP already had a supplement with some mini-setting, it didn't move the needle. With settings it isn't about quantity but quality. One good setting will do better then five mediocre ones. And if a setting is good, it would be a waste to throw it away in a one off product. 

     

    It as worked in conjunction with lots of fully fledged out setting that get support. Several things for Fate of Cthulhu. Even Atomic Robo gets some supplements. FATE does a lot more than cheap mini-settings. 

    Fate has a different approach, but isn’t 'rules-lite’. Frankly, I don’t want this thread derailed about arguing about the Fate system anyway and it makes no real point to argue about the system when this is more a thread about marketing. This argument tangent is a distraction from the point of this thread.

    If you don’t have sales figures then it is hard to make arguments based on assertions about relative sales. You are making arguments without evidence to back it up.

    I’m not moving any goalpost at all. I am saying, clearly, that in order for BR:UGE to be successful, as a universal, generic systemic it needs supplemental support.

    Short mini-settings can be produced a lot quicker that fully detailed big setting books and their relative speed of reading/mastery and potential low cost means they can fulfil a specific niche for the BRP fanbase to get into play quickly.

    I am not arguing for mini-settings to cancel out the bigger setting supplements but I am saying that the fastest way to support the game is to get lots of mini-settings out there - and Fate provides a marketing model that is successful at doing this. Fate managed to keep its fan base happy by immediately supporting their game with lots of rapidly produced mini-settings first, way before it started producing more developed, longer setting supplements.

    BR: UGE currently has barely anything supporting it yet and it needs to have something or its going to fade away too.

    • Like 2
  4. Originally, Classic Runequest rules had quite a lot of information about improving Characteristic scores through training. These were done through costs and training and have been adapted as optional BRP rules since.

    In Call of Cthulhu, the emphasis was shifted more on to skill development and, to be sure the emphasis of the game is less about character improvement and more about survival (either physically or mentally) and solving mysteries. I kinda feel that giving any emphasis on character improvement, in a manner of ‘levelling up’ in D&D terms actually undermines these aspects a little. 

     

     

    • Like 1
  5. 1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

    FATE is a rules lite system though. So authors can just focus on the setting and atmosphere. BRP would need a little more.

    Which didn't really sell at that well. Remeber that Chaosium had mostly stopped supporting BRP in favor of stand alone RPGs until  WotC started driving off their fans and third party supporters. 

    The original WoW idea was a great concept. Iit came out, but mostly faded. It didn't really help to promote the system, and it was never as popular as RQ, CoC, Pendragon or Stormbringer. 

    So I don't think BRP needs mini-settings. Mini-setting probably won't help BRP much at all. I think it does need at least one new setting with several adventures for it. It's ususally the adventures that make a game.

    Fate is a rule-set that can be customised and expanded accordingly. It is no lighter than BRP - which can also be run as a light system and customised accordingly. Your view here is prejudicial, honestly.

    Do you have sales figures? The fact is that when Worlds of Wonder came out it was an entirely novel concept - it predates GURPS which was the system that really marketed itself as a universal engine to a continual fanbase. Worlds of Wonder didn’t necessarily get the right model for supplemental support - aside from developing Superworld further - but it is entirely speculation whether it could have been more successful had it, for example, aggressively followed up the box set with multiple setting mini-setting ‘modules’ that fans could collect. We’ll never know because they never did this. My view is that WoW faded simply because it didn’t provide enough interesting settings quickly enough.

    So, actually, I’ll up the ante and state that I think BRP really does need to have supplemental support for it to remain in the public eye and succeed as a product. A pacy release schedule of cheap mini settings has worked for FATE.  It could work very well for BRP too.

     

     

    • Helpful 3
  6. 3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    Interesting idea, but does any RPG have something like this?

     

    Yes. Fate has lots of mini settings - a lot of them are pay-what-you-want and a number of them have been collected into anthologies. A lot of these settings are really creative and original and about 50 pages or less in many cases. If you are wanting to switch between a variety of settings frequently, this is all you need - the longer the supplements, the harder they are to switch to. Have a look for yourselves.

    BRP actually had this too - they had an anthology of different adventures with different settings in some supplements when the big gold book originally came out as well as with the quick-play. The original Worlds of Wonder - with Magic World, Super World and Future World - was this concept too, of course. Imagine they had just kept going with Crime World, Wild West World, erm....Apocalypse World and so on?

    • Like 2
  7. Maybe I could be pointed in the direction of some but as far as I am aware, there isn’t that many supplements available for this current iteration of BR:UGE.

    It is early days still but I would like to make some sort of call out to third party creators or Chaosium itself, that what the game really needs is a bunch of short, creative mini settings - no more than 50 pages tops - that could be printed out from PDF files, maybe with a short adventure or two included. I’ve seen a few people suggesting they are working on settings, but what I am suspecting is this means larger setting books (200 pages or so). There is a place for this but short, cheap and quick stuff for one shots gets into the whole spirit of a universal system more I think. 

    What do other people think?

     

    • Like 4
  8. I’m a Kickstarter backer of Morte D’Arthur who already received a physical copy of Prince Valiant some time ago. I would note that Prince Valiant was originally offered in a previous Kickstarter campaign - Paladin if I recall correctly. They may have had Prince Valiant offered as add-ons in the Morte D’Arthur but that was probably because they had backstiock to do this. The Morte D’Arthur campaign, however, is more than five years old now and Chaosium were not involved in it originally. 

    As such, it is highly unlikely that you could get it via that campaign simply because, as others have pointed out, Chaosium do not have a license to it anymore. 

    According to recent reports, like yesterday, Chaosium’s plans to print and deliver the Morte D’Arthur books is well on their way for some time in 2024. It’s been a while, but will be appreciated when they arrive.

  9. Honestly, there is no question that Runequest: Glorantha is a complex RPG - both in rules design and setting. 

    The original Runequest rules were simplified into ‘Basic Roleplaying’ rules by the time Stormbringer and Call of Cthulhu were released - removing elements from the combat system especially and developing other areas of the game to smooth out more granular aspects of gameplay. When the Hero Wars/Heroquest rules were developed they were deliberately designed to be more ‘narrative’ in as much as there was a preference for a less complex game system. 

    The more recent version of the Runequest: Glorantha rules adds more skills, more magic systems, a rune-based personality system, family background generation and passions into the mix. The setting is much, much more developed than it was also.

    I am not saying these are bad things to have but it is what it is. I would hasten to add that the RuneQuest Starter Set is arguably the best product of its type on the market (and in the current market that is saying something!). There are also plenty of fans that love the complexity of the setting mythology as well as the crunch in the rules as signature elements of the Runequest game. The growing range of Cult splat books is really showing the scope of what you can do with the game when you master it - but that is the commitment you need. It isn’t a pick-up-and-play casual game in any sense.

    I guess the designers could have made the core rules book slimmer by stripping out the Sorcery chapter and the family background generator. I’d whisper it quietly, but they could have also held back the Rune traits as an optional rule too (saving everything for an expansion companion) but then I bet there would be lots of complaints about that if they had.  We also have the BRP generic book if you want to create something simpler. 

    • Like 1
  10. It is curious that there hasn’t been many movies that directly refers to Crowley. His life really is ripe for a biopic. 

    However, Mark Strong claimed in an interview that Lord Henry Blackwood of the Sherlock Holmes movie (with Robert Downey Junior) was loosely based on Crowley and also the classic Curse of the Demon (or Night of the Demon depending on which side of the Atlantic you are in), which itself is adapted from the MR James story - Casting The Runes, has a Crowley inspired figure (Karswell) as the main antagonist. 

    Both are total fodder for Call of Cthulhu.

  11. So, I've made a commitment towards running a Runequest: Glorantha campaign next year - aiming to last the entire year. It is basically going to act as a replacement for a previous D&D campaign slot, partially because D&D is going through a hiatus right now between editions*. Also, frankly, because I want to do something a bit different and with some sort of ongoing depth (ie not just a series of one shots). Runequest: Glorantha has been on the radar for some time, and I'm already seasoned with playing Classic Runequest a bit, an aborted Pendragon Campaign (everybody died!) and plenty of Call of Cthulhu and other BRP-based games. I already have the RQ:G core rules. 

    Anyway, it may need a bit of selling to my group and the best way I normally can start that is pointing them in the direction of media sources they can get inspired by. Movies and TV shows are best as they are casual and non-committal entertainments. I'm already aware of 300 being a good start ("THIS IS SARTAR!!!!"), but what else? Some books and novellas, as well as non-fiction books are also useful. Suggested music inspirations - soundtracks, etc, but also thematic rock bands that could be sourced too?

    There may be a formal list of these things provided somewhere, but I haven't found them - so any source would be good. 

    Also, with the specific Cults - which seems to be the best avenue into grasping the setting for players - could somebody give me a simple list of the main ones and associate them with some easy handle of the core concept based on pop culture or real-world facsimile? So, for example, what is the Orlanth cult like, in a nutshell?  And so on. 

    Any help appreciated! 

    * They aren't calling it a new edition, but if they are redoing all the core books with revised rules, so I'm not sure what else you'd call it. Anyway, our group can take a break while the game can sort out what it wants to be. We'll play Runequest in meantime! 

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