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svensson

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Posts posted by svensson

  1. 1 hour ago, pachristian said:

    I know I'm late to this party - but what is the separation of the elevation lines? How high above the river are the walls?

    This map has been superseded by a newer map in the GMs Pack.

    Otherwise, no I don't know what the topo contour line scale is. This map was probably designed with an eye to the Celtic hillfort called Maiden Castle in Dorset, England. Wiki link below.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maiden_Castle%2C_Dorset

  2. In regards to 'gallivanting'šŸ˜†

    Yes, there needs to be a discussion between the players and ref as to how they want the campaign to go, its focus and directions.

    The players need to be clear about the kind of adventure they're looking for. The referee needs to be clear about the theme, sandbox, etc.

    There's nothing wrong with wanting some sidebar jaunts to the odd places on the map, so long as it can be structured into the narrative.

    But the key to all this is communication with all parties.

  3. 6 hours ago, Joerg said:

    Weirdly enough, me GMing my first RuneQuest campaign (RQ3) was based on Greg Stafford's Viking box for Avalon Hill, with characters in their mid- to end twenties, (more or less) happily married and out of their steads to ensure the community's survival on the edge of hostile neighbors (some vaguely reminiscent of Picts, the others a nation of RuneQuest Ogre sorcerers leaning on the Fomorian myth). Having a set of dependents was natural for the Vikings in the Icelandic sagas, and did not really impede the flow of the campaign with part-time long distance sea travel for trading and raiding, part time domestic troubleshooting or actually pursuing their "civilian" occupations (like e.g. boat builder). I don't remember playing any Ronin-style wanderers, at least not outside of a YT 1300 crew in D6 Star Wars sentenced to pro-bono missions for the Rebellion.

    LOVE that Viking scenario.

    • Like 2
  4. Let me also say that I fully acknowledge that RQG is VERY different from its earlier editions with its focus on community involvement.

    ALL our PCs in RQ2 and 3 would think of having steading full of groupies as something that would put a frikkin' halt to an adventuring life. In most milieux that would be true. It would be true in the Fantasy Europe of Cormac the Pict, it would be true in the Forgotten Realms, or the cities of Greyhawk, Lankhmar and Sanctuary. But this is no longer applicable for RQG as written. The difference is that the community is now very much a character in the game, something more than a collection of bars, libraries and gear shops. RQG seeks to make the community part of the character's identity, something more than just a few lines of 'Background and History' on a character sheet.

    And, of course, absolutely none of this discussion should get in the way of Maximum Game Fun and YGMV. The mechanics work even if you just handwave all the community stuff and stay with the 'good stuff' of stabbing the darkness with a stick to see what bites back.

    • Like 1
  5. I made an RQ3 attempt at Harn that didn't work out all that well.

    Part of it is the Shek-Pvar convocation system and parsing which spells go where. Part of it was the needless complications of RQ3 Sorcery, something I never did really get the hang of.

    I tend to disagree about HarnMaster being a 'cousin' of BRP.... While there are some similarities [no character classes, etc.], the rules of the game are unnecessarily complicated and very ticky tack. NOTHING is 'simple' in HM, and I've had difficulty really learning the system.

  6. 9 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

    Why would anyone want to play in this game?

    I mean, if that's what your group wants, then fine. But it seems a pretty confrontational way to go about it.

    Phill, you're a fellow grog so I'll assume you're familiar with either edition of Cults of Terror. Isn't the tale of Hahlgrim Ironbreaker epic enough?

    Each Rune level has a trail of hangers-on... In the chapter on Bagog, Paulis cites 17 members in the band. And each one of those members contributed to the victory versus 'demons' and scorpionmen that night.

    A Rune level is expected to attract followers, it's part and parcel to the job. One of their principal roles is to lead worship, teach cultists skills and spells, officiate rituals, and otherwise contribute to the community as a whole. Now that doesn't mean that Vasana is going to allow her Vingan woman-at-arms to go ducking into Snakepipe Hollow with her any more than Hahlgrim let Paulis on the raid of the Vivamort den in CoT. Some things are above their pay grade, as Nathem found out on Vasana's first attempt into the Caves [described in the RQG Core Rules]. But at her level, given her fame, Vasana WILL attract followers.

    The whole point of RQG is making the heroes part of a community, with oaths and ties and relationships and responsibilities. Lone wolf murder hobos are for DnD, and RQG has consistently emphasized the differences between the two play styles. So if the players want to be traveling heroes instead of tied to a city, tula, regiment, or other community, having a small tribe of hangers-on allows them to do that.

    • Like 4
  7. There is a very simple way to show the players the 'community asset' emphasis in RQG.

    Apprentices. Acolytes. Foster children. Squires. Hangers-on.

    All of which have to be fed, protected, trained, and elevated [given livelihoods, introductions, pensions, something for their future lives]. And while YOUR Player Character miserly arse is willing to sleep in the stable, drink water and the cheapest beer available and eat turnip mush with hard tack on a daily basis, your reputation will suffer mightily if you try and serve your followers that literal beggar's banquet. In addition, all these folks have be to armed out of your pocket, trained out of your time, taught the magical arts so absolutely necessary to survive in Glorantha out of your time... And the quality of all that directly effects how your character is seen by the world. If you show up in a silk tunic with rare dyes and dripping jewels but your trainee is in stinking untanned buckskins and burlap tunic, YOU are the one that's gonna suffer.

    I suggest to the board that caring for and protecting a train of followers will easily eat up that 90% of income and time we're discussing and will CERTAINLY reinforce the values of community involvement we're also discussing because a 'community' of the group's train is following them.

    Even Hahlgrim Ironbreaker got saddled with a Lunar stripling, something he needed like another hole in the head. Yet it was his duty via kinship ties to shelter Paulis Longvale 'for a summer's seasoning' [and oh what a summer it was!]. When King Boltor summoned Hahlgrim to fight Chaos, Hahlgrim was obliged to bring this kid [aka 'beginning adventurer'] along for a very tough but educational ride. And just imagine the damage to Hahlgrim's reputation if Paulis had gotten his fool arse killed in the process... But to Hahlgrim's everlasting credit, if not his fame, Paulis left the care of Hahlgrim and the Bilini with a deep respect for the Orlanthi, vastly more knowledge about the world, materially far better off, and an altogether better man than when he arrived last spring. Fame may be crowned by great deeds, but it is built by little ones.

    Ā 

    • Like 5
  8. OK, as usual the discussion is wide-ranging, though oddly for us we haven't digressed completely off the track. šŸ˜

    I'll address some of the stuff I'm seeing as a point-by-point just to keep my own thoughts organized.

    1. It's the GMs job to help the player visualize their character sheet and the Epic Story of their career. Reconciling the story and the numbers has always been the chief burden of the narrator and this is why we have to remember to give some leeway in how the players use their skills and not stifle their creativity.

    2. I'm hoping that Jar-Eel and Aelwin's situation becomes more clear when the Lunars Gods book comes out this month. I don't perceive them having much of a shaman component at all, but I might be wrong.

    3. Vasana's Band may not be a part of the Sartar Magical Union, though they could easily develop that way. Right now Vasana is on the path of Herodom and so I see her friends, apprentices, and hangers-on as a more temporal Hero Band and doers of things Argrath wants done on Glorantha rather than the Hero Plane. This is entirely fine. The Hero Wars will be fought on multiple battlefields [Mundane Plane, Hero Plane, Spirit Plane, the Hells, and so forth] and Argrath is gonna need assets in every one of them.

    • Like 2
  9. 7 minutes ago, AkhƓrahil said:

    According to the Bestiary, the Bat only has animal intelligence. I doubt this is consistent with being Illuminated.

    There is a difference between the acceptance of your own existence and the philosophical reasoning to understand your nature, especially the negative aspects of your character.

    • Like 1
  10. 3 hours ago, AkhƓrahil said:

    I would say yes here on intuition, but there's textual evidence against it. Sure, you could argue that Oddi just misses his Sense Chaos roll here, but that doesn't seem diegetically interesting:

    Ā 

    And one would think that something like the Bat would ring the Sense Chaos bell like a cathedral at Christmas

    • Like 1
  11. 4 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

    To me, the bigger problem is how do you run an adventuring campaign with a shaman-priest of Waha in the party, like Vishi Dunn becomes in the Vasana story.

    In the story, it is glossed over. He continues to be aĀ wanderingĀ adventurer. That's what most people are going to want to do. But there is no guidance on how to do this, all the rules in the book basically say you can't do it - they don't explicitly say this, but the most obvious interpretation is that it basically is end of adventuring career in the traditional sense. It's clearly a mistaken interpretation, but is a common initial assumption.

    I have no problem, I can deal with this. I've dealt with it before in previous editions of the game, we can come up with our own mental gymnastics in our group to work around these problems because we're experienced RuneQuest players.

    A lot of players are not, and are going to see these obligations as an impasse. This question is an example of this rules-versus-intent problem, the questioner asks how to cope with a 90% income tithe, and the official answer is "he gives 90% of his income to himself".

    Well, there is one major detail in Vishi's story that is important in the 'wandering adventurer' statement. Vishi IS NOT a shaman of Grandmother High Llama or any other tribal spirit confined to Prax. He is a shaman of the White Bull, aka Argrath. His wanderings are in direct service to the cult and in support of Argrath's aims just as much as Vasana's are.

    While Vishi doesn't have an infrastructure to support, he does have to spend significant amounts of time in the Otherworld questing and growing in power completely separate from the party's adventuring goals. This leaves him little time for a 'day job', so to speak.

    That is one aspect of the sample party narrative I wish the writers of the authors had thought of... the transition of 'Bob the Farmer' into both an adventurer and to possibly a Rune level worshiper of his deity. All the magicians in Vasana's Band are society's outliers... a noble woman, a professional temple-raised priestess, a professional shaman... they're not 'Annie the Craftswoman' or 'Bob the Farmer'. It can be difficult to reconcile what's on your character sheet with Vasana's epic tale.

    • Like 2
  12. Good question.

    I'd tell you to ask Oddi the Keen, but he'd probably answer with a riddle. A NYSALOR riddle šŸ˜

    Jokes aside, as I have read Glorantha over the years there are good 'Stafford-ism' arguments for yes and no. If it were my table, my logic would go like this: "In Glorantha, all knowledge and all power comes with a price. The price of Illumination is a sense of disillusionment and disconnectedness with your people and your deity, the two most important emotional connections a Gloranthan has. So with those two pieces of information, I would tend to think no, you can no longer 'Sense' Chaos mystically, but your other senses can identify it with greater clarity. Therefore, a Buller gets to keep the Sense Chaos skill, but it can never be increased and will be described by the GM differently. Instead of 'Yes, you Sense this person might be Chaotic', I might describe it as 'Your previous experiences lead you to think this might be Chaotic behavior. The guy may be Chaotic, but he might also just be crazy. Or perhaps he's afflicted with a spirit.'

    • Like 1
  13. 19 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

    ...or a new adaptation of the James Clavell novel.Ā  I haven't gotten far into the new series, but I'm counting on it to stand on its own and hoping it steers away from a lot of the exoticism of the '80s adaptation.

    !I!

    It absolutely does. See my review of the first episode above. My wife and I were equally impressed with the second episode.

  14. 1 hour ago, Joerg said:

    Please go ahead. You might consider a short Jonstown Compendium publication in the future, too.

    I wouldn't even know how to begin to do that. Anyone I could talk to about setting up the how-to's?

  15. So, question for the Collective Thanatari Head...

    I've done a fair bit typing and brainstorming on this topic and I think I'm gonna I'm gather my ideas together for my own use.

    Would you guys like me to upload a file with all that?

    • Like 3
  16. 3 hours ago, Jens said:

    IMHO the use of Alter Creature by Morokanth to turn humans into herd men is mostly a tall tale told to frighten children and ignorant outsiders. Not only does it only impact members of Wahaā€™s covenant, but it takes 2 points of permanent POW- effectively costing the Morkanth 400L to turn a skilled slave they could sell for 300L into a dumb beast for a net loss of 700L... Iā€™d assume it is only done for particularly important social/mythological reasons, not as a matter of course or out of spite.Ā 

    And while those who know about Waha's Covenant MAY know that, almost NO Heortling knows it.

  17. 58 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

    Ā 

    A judgement from the local Orlanthi jurist that an action is not Chaotic is not a ā€œget out of sin freeā€ card. There are other transgressions than Chaos.

    Absolutely!

    Heortling society is afflicted with every one of mankind's sins and it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'Chaos' per se. People murder, steal, commit assaults, break oaths, litter, and lie about the score of a shield push game and a host of other crimes simply because they're assholes and there's nothing religious or mystical in it at all.

    • Like 1
  18. 24 minutes ago, Joerg said:

    Alll of that applies to an intermediary sent to you, but not necessarily to an intermediary to ransom someone else from someone else, or returning with ransomees. Are such folk ethically taboo to rob?

    1. The herald, whichever clan they might belong to, is acting as the agent of the clan holding the prisoners. For just a cattle-raid, there's no real need for a neutral party as herald. Everybody on each side knows everyone and a visit by someone bearing the herald's baton means an official message have come, either notifying next of kin of a death or notifying the clan chief or temple that their people are being ransomed.

    In certain circumstance, between parties where there is a history of hatred for example, a neutral herald is pretty much required. Asking someone from another clan to act as the neutral herald is a favor in KoDP terms.

    2. The perception of the Morokanth as slave owners really does depend on whether one is of Waha's Covenant or not. Many, perhaps most, Praxians may not like Moros much, but they are accepted presence on the Plains and have a role under the Covenant. Heortlings are not nearly so blase' about it. Because they are not part of the Covenant, many Heortlings are not taught the details of theĀ  Moro's role on the Plains. They thereforebelieve that Moros will turn them into animals the minute they get a hold of a person. Because of that, many Heortlings would prefer death to being reduced to cattle.

    • Like 1
  19. 1 hour ago, radmonger said:

    The existence of the Lightning spell mean keeping unwilling Orlanthi captive requires disproportionate effort; you have to have more guards than prisoners, 24/7, and never allow unsupervised access to the open sky or a storm. This is never going to be economically viable. There is exotic slavery magic that can do so, some imported from Fonrit, but all Orlanthi consider that explicitly chaotic.

    Most prisoners are on honor system, backed by the fact that if they escape they will likely be recaptured. And physically escaping without paying ransom doesn't void the debt, which would then have to be reclaimed by other means. So what happens to those whose ransoms are not paid?

    If they are sold, it will be to Morokanth, who will convert them into herd beasts and ultimately eat them; this is not chaotic. Or, pre-Dragonrise, to the Lunars, who are, but what can you do?

    They might just be killed, if no-one present is their kin. Unless the captives are from far away, or there has been a bitter feud for a generation, there will almost always be some second cousins' wife that would render this option chaotic.

    They may adopt them into the clan, especially if they can attract a husband or wife. Serving a term as a year-wife/bedhusband would count. Without a spouse, their status would likely be that of a thrall, as they own no property. Not every clan is generous or rich enough to support those who have nothing to offer but their labor.

    They might be returned to their clan, as a public act of generosity for which a favor will be owed.

    They might pay cult membership fees for an Asrelian mine work gang, knowing the Earth has dire punishments for those who desert her. This is the one that is closest to chattel slavery, and some Orlanthi consider it suspect. Queen Samastina may have recently reformed it, or have plans to do so that require the PCs help.

    Or they might be given directions to the nearest dangerous ruins, and made to swear an oath, possibly magically backed; return with payment, or not at all.

    Some of these would count as slavery or forced labor under modern law. But not to the Orlanthi, to whom violence is always a legitimate option. So a debt incurred by someone else using violence better must be honorably settled. Even magic, like a Humakti Oath, used to enforce such payment is not chaotic.

    Ā 

    1. Those held captive for ransom are under an honor system to not attempt escape while their ransom is being negotiated. Sometimes that honor system is reinforced by an Oath spell. Captives will be assigned a minder of appropriate rank to keep the captive from sensitive areas. Particularly unruly captives [Uroxi for example] might be restrained or kept in some kind of cell or root cellar. And there is always the option of the magical slave collar that bleeds magic points and does not allow the use of Rune Points.

    2. Among Heortlings it is a particularly vile dishonor to sell humans to the Morokanth. Such a sale not only dishonors the captive, but also the seller. Doing such a thing promotes a particularly evil reputation and is the kind of thing that'll get your own clansmen killed out of hand. Sartarites say, "Better a Lunar slave than a herd-man!"

    It should be noted that Praxians don't have such sensibilities and if a tribal brave can't afford to keep a slave for his own use, he'll sell the slave to the highest bidder, morokanth or no. Only the Agimori Men-and-a-Half keep no slaves whatsoever on the Plains.

    3. Some races don't take captives at all. The dragonewts, Dwarfs who are not Openhandist heretics, many Uz tribes and so forth don't take captives. Among Aldryami, it really depends on how well that forest group knows human customs and how much the ransomee despoiled the forest.

    4. Yes, some clans occasionally make peace by releasing their captives in return for a favor or several. This is widely considered 'ransom without coin' and is part of negotiation process.

    Ā 

    Ā 

    • Like 2
  20. 3 hours ago, Joerg said:

    Usually the payment will be brought by a neutral messenger (usually of the Issaries cult, possibly Argan Argar or Etyries) who will usually be tasked with returning the ransomed prisoner, too.

    People in the ransom trade shouldn't ordinarily be targeted, as that would ruin the ransom business for all others involved.

    Ā 

    Loss of equipment due to captivity is a major issue for players, especially if that equipment includes bound spirits or an attuned crystal. Are there conventions for ransoming back personal or community-owned equipment? Imagine your party in a situation where they need to offer ransom while carrying the Black Spear of the Colymar?

    1. The herald/messenger [hereafter 'herald'] can be of any one of several acceptable cults, so long as that cult emphasizes Law, Communication, Truth or Honor. IMGU, the symbol for someone approaching for parlay is a white baton about 2 ft. in length. This came from stripping the bark from a handy branch [symbolizing taking one's armor off] and tying a strip from a bandage or a healer's robe to it. Naturally, heralds approach unarmed and are given all honors and safe passage.

    For some cults, being 'unarmed' is a matter of some discussion. A Humakti makes a fine herald, but he approaches with his sword bound into the scabbard by white cordage and the weapon carried over the arm so as to be difficult to draw. Orlanth worshipers will symbolically disarm by handing their weapon to an assistant or squire before approaching. Thus are religious oaths and honor equally maintained.

    2. It is a VERY bad idea to capture or kill the herald. Doing so makes every single person of your clan or unit an outlaw to the opposing party and will see your people sold into slavery or simply killed on the spot for convenience's sake. What's more, such actions will severe repercussions long after the war is over. Heralds and merchants are most often members of the same cults, and what merchant of Issaries will bring goods to a clan that murdered a herald in the execution of his office? And how do you think YOUR merchants will get treated if you murder a herald, hmmm?

    3. As for magic items, most magic items are of the hedge magic variety... spirit magic focii, power crystals, etc. Some magic items are considered heirlooms and can either be returned or bargained for. Allied Spirit vessels are always returned, but items with bound spirits, attuned crystals, etc. might be bargained for over and above the costs of freeing the captive's person. Some items of legendary provenance [tempered iron gear or Black Spear of the Colymar, for example] will fetch a ransom price FAR exceeding that of the person who lost it. And while few people like it, some of these legendary items are NOT ransomed and are kept as a trophy by the victors. This naturally engenders a lot of hard feelings and oaths of vengeance, but it's considered an accepted as a risk of war.

    4. Some items like known clan treasures [a Bag of Winds or a Gustbran's Bellows, etc.] will only be taken by an enemy in a genocidal war, which HAS happened in Sartar's and the Lunar Empire's past. This includes capturing and possibly slaying or breaking the physical form of the clan wyter. But this is a rare case of 'erase your entire bloodline' type warfare.

    • Like 1
    • Helpful 1
  21. 49 minutes ago, Geoff R Evil said:

    Good rules @svenssonĀ Ā although you donā€™t discuss what happens to magic items and other loot. In my view, thatā€™s all lost to the captors. I like heirloom items being returned, that seems honourable, and ransom only works between honourable combatants really.

    of course keeping lots of valuable gear means itā€™s probable the captive will return once ransomed if they can.

    Also you assumed salvers is likely ā€¦ many do not support slavery. But that does not mean someone is not kept as a thrall, a low grade non combatant honour bound to serve their captors in return for food heat and shelter. A degrading role that many would pay their ransom to get out of.

    Thanks for the compliment.

    Every clan knows of a clan that keeps slaves or thralls. I differentiate the two because slaves are usually kept forever, but Anglo-Saxon and Norse customs had war captives who would serve as menials for several years [customarily 5 or 8] and then they would be released either as freemen in the steading or to go home as the Gods allowed. I've chosen to keep that custom IMGU.

    Something else should be said... Glorantha has no 'John Browns' and clans that don't keep slaves are not Abolitionists [in the US historical sense]. They don't keep slaves or thralls for ancestral and mystical reasons themselves, but nothing whatsoever prevents them from doing business with those clans that do. What's more, what is a clan supposed to do with a captive whose people can't or won't ransom him? Turn him loose on the countryside? That just adds to the bandit population. Forced labor for no wages is a fact of life in Glorantha, though the clan system usually [but NOT always] directs that forced labor into project that benefit the whole clan.

    Remember, a major battle with lots of prisoners can *beggar* a clan and all their cash reserves just getting the nobles, thanes, and priests out of durance vile, and while a simple carl-ranked fyrdman might have 'x' number of Lunars 'on account' at his temple, if the temple is flat broke after getting a Rune Priest and two Rune Lords out of captivity, that carl is gonna have to wait a year or more while the temple's treasury refills itself.

  22. I thought about that for my Glorantha. What I came up with is this:

    - Prisoners are disarmed when captured, keeping only the clothes on their backs.

    - Prisoners who don't want to be sold as slaves are VERY quick to tell their captors where their ransom can be had.

    - The price of ordinary gear [normal armors, non-magical weapons, non-magical jewelry plus wear-and-tear] is deducted from the ransom demand and a neutral messenger is then sent off with the ransom demand.

    - Once the required ransom is paid, the prisoner is released with a letter or rune-stick saying that they have been honorably ransomed and are not subject to recapture unless they commit a crime. Oftentimes a member of the captor group will accompany the former prisoner to the frontier.

    - Any heirloom items captured with the prisoner are returned to them when they reach the border. If necessary, magical investigation will confirm an item's provenance.

    - It is customary to provide a released prisoner 'three days sustenance' [anything from 'bread and water' to high quality meals with wine and treats] for their travel.

    • Like 4
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