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davecake

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Everything posted by davecake

  1. To be exactly precise (quoting from HQG here, but you'll find very similar language in the Gods book, or for that matter Cults of Terror) To me, that is exactly 'philosophical neutrality'. I admit that I was not noting that it was not 'every', but 'almost all' in the HQG definition, though it was every Illuminate in RQ2 and might be back to being every Illuminate in RQG, though other definitions (to what extent does that apply only to Nysaloran Illumination? unclear). Whatever, I'm sticking that that being true until there is a contradictory source. Oddi realises that what he
  2. I think ascetism, or austerities in Glorantha speak, is a practical technique that can be used by any magical tradition. As is meditation, as is enchantment or summoning or ceremony. Geases are a form of austerity used by theism. There are shamanic uses that are more obvious - gaining shamanic powers through attribute sacrifice, for example, which seems a fairly direct attempt to show ascetism. They can be super practical for Illuminates in current rules - get Gifts and Geases, decide you've internalised it and don't really need to maintain the Geas when its inconvenient. Cheesy, b
  3. You mean if they took an entirely different approach, essentially starting again from scratch, they could get somewhere? (bearing in mind a true Draconic tradition would likely tell them all the magic they knew retarded their spiritual development and they should avoid using it). Well, I guess it is possible.
  4. I think Greg changed his mind on this. Or at least, would regard every immanent mystic as failed as long as they remained mystic. It's worth considering that the use of dragon powers in a practical way is always considered to be something that hinders spiritual development by dragonewts, and sometimes death is preferable. This also shows up in the EWF stories as well, the idea that dragon magic must be used sparingly for spiritual advancement. Now consider that the Path of Immanent Mastery has, as their goal, just to mimic exactly the sort of magic that the dragonewts and
  5. I was not intending my ideas about Irensavalism to represent the only group to incorporate some mysticism. I'm quite sure the Arkati still exist. But I think the idea that there would only be one tiny group in the entire West to have an interest in mysticism is a bit silly and a bit restrictive. The Arkati (like Mularik) are still basically a mystic movement in reaction to the misuse of mysticism by Nysalor. Talor was another. But I think we can't just think of Western mysticism that way any more, as if nothing has happened since the First Age - and in particular, I think the various Ark
  6. The Kygor Litor cult initiation is a formal ritual of recognition of adulthood as well, so for trollkin or for multiple birth trolls (who are considered formally troilkin until recognised as trolls) it is a big deal. Though I guess it is possible that it's the offer of initiation, rather than the ritual itself, that is the important thing But if the KL initiation, and the adulthood initiation, are the same, that raises the interesting notion that trolls who are not initiated into KL are not truly formally adults in troll society? Which is kind of funny to think that the ZZ cult are consid
  7. Give the occult community some ability to understand what they are doing when they reinterpret and adopt earlier imagery. The Baphomet of Éliphas Lévi is not that of Phillip IV, or of the first crusade. There is a significant element of conscious syncretism and deliberate reinterpretation and reclamation of symbology. And if you don't recognise that is going on, that's your problem, not the Satanists and other occultists, who are often very self aware of this sort of thing (and I can assure you, also find a lot of it very funny, though probably for different reasons).
  8. Being the Char-Un, I'm sure many would consider it the Even Madder Horse Disease.
  9. But only one seems to be compatible with the upcoming Gods book, which has Yu-Kargzant and Kargzant as separate cults both worshipped in Pent. So this seems to be an argument there is no point in continuing. We can just wait for publication. Right, and as you have just essentially said you presume that what I say is inherently not to be trusted, so why should I bother to continue any further discussion? That sounds rather like the Sheng Seleris empire, doesn't it? [Guide pg 364] The Bursts at the top, leading a pure magical nomad lifestyle, are demigod magical ascetics, are a
  10. Well, those who are permitted to initiate into Yu-Kargzant join Yu-Kargzant, those who are not generally worship Kargzant. Permission to initiate is, just like Yelm in Dara Happa, primarily hereditary. Among the PHP a large proportion are considered descended from Yelm and so can initiate, among other tribes a small minority. Yes, of the 10 tribes 1 is PHP, 6 are traditional Solar, 3 Storm. So numerically, Kargzant is more worshipped. That doesn't mean that Yu-Kargzant is not the most important god - just as we still talk about Dara Happa as being Yelmic despite the Lodril peas
  11. I think of the Communication Rune as Harmony without the association with unselfishness or focussing on the needs of your own community. It's not opposed to those things, but nor it guided by them - it's the mystery of Issaries that, through trade, working to make profit for yourself benefits all, learning about the other teaches you about yourself, the desire for wealth can lead to peace, etc. I don't really see the Movement connection much, but more Harmony focussed outward not inward? Issaries does have a Movement connection of course - but then, Issaries is always given the Movement
  12. The Yu-Kargzant and Yelm cults are indeed pretty similar, but not identical - and the version in the rules book is Yu-Kargzant, because that is the one that gets substantial worship in Dragon Pass among the Grazers. The Yelm cult among the Dara Happans has no shamans, has an additional status/sub-cult called Yelm Imperator that you can only join if you are the current ruler rightful ruler of a noble land-holding office (eg one of the actual current rulers, not just a noble), and the cult cares a bit less about horses (still pretty keen on them, but not the Pure Horse Tribe obsession with them)
  13. I mentioned Breen, and I've been told the story of him and Bradley being the inspiration for Nysalor a few times. I think Isaac Bonewits was briefly involved with the OTO around that time, who Greg of course knew (as his publisher) - and Bonewits in turn had published eg Bill Heidrick. I also know that there was a significant overlap between the occultist community and science fiction fandom (and the nascent gaming community), Berkeley wasn't that big a place. Enough, for example, that when fan and bookseller Tom Whitmore found the original handwritten Book of the Law randomly in the basement
  14. I don't actually follow that - Yanafal does, indeed, die, and ends in the Underworld. He just is resurrected - in defiance of his initiation oaths to Humakt, so not possible unless Yanafals was Illuminated, but he was, as a result of his quest to save the Goddess, during which he kills death. This does not change Humakts relationship with Death, only Yanafals (though it does change the relationship between Humakt and Yanafals). If you haven't paid attention to anything written about Humakt in over 40 years, I think that says more about you than Humakt!
  15. I don’t buy the idea of Humakt as passive at all. He realises that misuse of the Death rune by others is destroying the cosmos, and sets out to reclaim it. He separates the living from the dead, which is necessary if the world is going to have Death in it and yet not be destroyed, and chaps Entropy down to size where it can be eaten by Arachne Solara and integrated into existence. Zorak Zoran doesn’t care about that -he is one of those who are breaking the world by his actions, and he doesn’t care, he likes it. He enjoys the dead and the living being drawn together, ZZ uses Death but
  16. A Typhonian Call of Cthulhu would indeed be a very strange and cool game.
  17. Greg most certainly would have known members of the OTO and other Crowley adherents in the Bay Area socially, there was a notable cross over with science fiction fandom, SCA, etc at the time. In particular the notorious Walter Breen, known pedophile at the time, and his wife Marion Zimmer Bradley (only a notorious abuser much later), were not only people who Greg (and other people associated with early RuneQuest and Glorantha) would have known of socially, particularly via the SCA (and some group houses that were social centers and the site of many parties), but were interested in Crowley - Br
  18. I know very little! Somewhere, I have copies of a couple of the hand-outs Greg made, I think Greg brought a bunch of them to RQ Con Down Under or something, or MOB had some and handed them out? And I was told that Greg made them to hand out at Burning Man or similar events. I could post scans if I ever find them again, but don't know if I could find them. I do remember most of the rants - if ancient wisdom is the best wisdom, then the older the better - and what is older than trilobytes? Obviously the wisest of all.
  19. That makes a surprising amount of sense. One that had many descendants (metaphorically at least) that the formed the original cults among more mortal races (humans and Aldryami, anyway), who later realised the connection and combined the cults.
  20. Immanent Mastery, by Greg's definition, is not mysticism because it doesn't use mystic methods at all. It uses pretty straight forward Rune Magic mostly, even though it has mystic goals. And almost everyone outside the cult would say their goals are misguided, misunderstood, and mystically pointless - the basic idea is that, rather than doing all that Darudic dragon mysticism sitting around and meditating stuff that seems so dull, and trying to transform your soul into a draconic one, just turn your body into a draconic one instead. Surely, once your body is that of a dragon, you'll get
  21. Yeah, I think Sheng is Maximum Bad Mysticism, not just getting to be about as accomplished a mystic as you can be before he fails, but also finding pretty much the nastiest version of a magical doctrine you can get, with his 'life is slavery, torture is strength, civilisation is weakness' stuff. I think the Kralorelans are mostly pretty much on the path of very dubious mystic abuse, though, by building an Empire of temporal power on dragon magic. They have a whole system they justify to themselves, of course, reshaping the otherworld (the Summerland heaven etc) for their purposes, but is it a
  22. Well, you can be a mighty Illuminated hero, just as Krishna explains in the Bhavagad Gita - just you have to treat Illumination as a source of insight and guidance, rather than a source of cool exploits of the magic system, and that is an annoyingly tempting line to cross, and in practice somewhat subjective.
  23. I think that Irensavalism can have connections to Illumination, but post-Arkat they are concealed and not overt. I think they are still there - but you have to know where to look (it seems obvious to me as an outsider that Talor is Illuminated, and his Apocypha contains some hints about Illumination (and is part of the modern Loskalm Canon), and it is well hidden from the laity. First, prove yourself as wise enough to learn sorcery, then explore the gnostic wisdom, only when you have fully understood Joy (and submitted to many examinations of the spirit) can you then be trusted to experiment w
  24. Sorry, no. Black and white thinking like that is false in real life and false in Gloranthan Illumination. Indeed. And if you really think that obeying the laws and scruples of your society is so important that you must stamp out and destroy the things that allow you to question them... Ompalam invites you to subscribe to his newletter...
  25. My favourite model for an allied or bound spirit is Loiosh, Vlad Taltos's familiar in the series by Steven Brust, a continual supplier of snark and sarcasm. But that's just one of many ways to make allied or bound spirits full of annoying personality. Humakti allied spirits that are continually advocating to cast Sword Trance, because it's the only time they think their master has their priorities correct. Troll allied spirits that are constantly castigating their masters for being insufficiently violent and murderous. Or constantly reminding them to do things for their mother. Lhankor M
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