Jump to content

davecake

Members
  • Content Count

    919
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    14

Everything posted by davecake

  1. I know that this is a RuneQuest thread but.... we’ve had gifts and geases and Illumination rules in HeroQuest for *years*, and I’ve had PCs in my HQ games with both for years. How they relate should be a Gloranthan question, not a game system question. So by the logic of ‘deal with it when it’s hits your game’, I think we are past due. (quite aside from that, I do have the GoG preview, and I expect Illuminated PCs very soon) My assumption is that the god, at some level, is reacting to guilt of the worshipper, or their awareness of breaking a geas - and the Illuminate is able to bypass that in the same manner as they bypass spirits of retribution. But it would be nice to a smidgen more clarity.
  2. How does this reconcile with Illuminates seemingly being able to get away with it? Real question, it would be good to have some explanatory model.
  3. I don't think it is mysticism as such (Natha, for example, is still definitely a goddess who grants Rune spells), but more magic that is more compatible with a mystic culture. Mysticism just doesn't generally do powerful flashy magic - but it can profoundly change how individuals relate to their other sources of powerful flashy magic. I think we are still talking about theism etc, but theism from a culture were people spend a lot of time in meditation regularly might be different.
  4. I personally always run it as the flatness of Glorantha is a magical, not a physical and universal, thing. There is a horizon, in normal practice what you see is totally reasonable. Once you get outside the 'middle world' it changes, but not always in reliable or consistent ways. You can see a long way from the top of magical mountains, but that could be interpreted as the mountains being magical.
  5. Maybe it is kind of like a haka? In earth cult ceremonies they have to ritually stomp, threaten, glare and look scary?
  6. I was incredibly pleased with how my players dealt with the question of offering a hospitality oath to Temertain, in the Colymar campaign in Sartar: KoH. In the campaign, this is usually a terrible dilemma - they are there to steal from Temertain, so swearing to abide by the rules of hospitality then stealing from him would make them oathbreakers (both making them vulnerable to attacks by the spirits of retribution, and having potentially disastrous consequences in a later heroquest). not wanting to give my players response away to anyone yet to run through it, I put it in spoiler tags
  7. I think the Seven Mothers missionaries have a whole spiel along those lines, including how the Red Goddess allows you to reconnect with Life and joy without having to reject your warrior past and so on.
  8. Full agreement. We already have various 'Trance' magics. I would be happy if some of these explicitly linked to the Meditation skill - it doesn't sound like that would be something that would work for eg Babeester Gor or Humakt, where it is more like a combat frenzy - but for Nathic warriors, Eastern martial artists etc, various mystics, it sounds like it would be a great idea.
  9. Or that they are usually accompanied by singing - it may not be a necessity, but simply a practice. I think, for example, that many Ernalda ceremonies involve singing, and it is a very common ceremonial method for them, but I don't think that means their spells require it, or (as it shows in the skill lists) priestesses are required to be good at singing (just like many many Christian churches). It may even be that while the congregation always sings, their singing is to augment the dance, which in turn is not required but simply the chosen method of ceremonial magic enhancement - which would still mean an initiate gets a lot of practice singing! Where singing is required to cast a spell it is usually directly specified (eg Comfort Song, Tree Chopping Song). I think singing well is not required for the magic to work, in most cases. It can give us plenty of cultural detail though, especially about the details between lay member/initiate ceremonies, vs inner mysteries. Yinkin lay members learn about cats, but the inner mysteries are about becoming (and being good at) being a cat. Yelmalio lay members sing hymns and learn the sacred language and about the skies - not everyone is expected to be part of the warrior culture. Most cults that require the Peaceful Cut sing it, and value singing. Even Lhankor Mhy and Issaries use singing in their ceremonies, though it seemingly has nothing to do with the inner mysteries of the cults. The Argan Argar cult outer mysteries are basically Darktongue language classes (which actually makes a lot of sense). And so on.
  10. davecake

    Wyter of Pavis?

    Yes, I thought I mentioned this earlier in the thread? Also there are the OrganStones and other parts of the Faceless Stone Statue (ultimately, Mostali Maker magic), other Flintnail artifacts, etc. Plus in fan material, there are the Masks of Pavis, a number of enchanted masks worn by certain magical office holders of the city/cult that are heavily enchanted.
  11. davecake

    Wyter of Pavis?

    I don't think it is simply about size, it is about city gods not generally being active or martial enough to need a role other than priest. And many don't even have any real need for rune lords even then - if your city wyter is, for example, also a sub-cult of a major god that has Rune Lords, what would be the point? Most city gods barely have priests - most have just the City Harmony spell and a handful of common magic (and Pavis is not different because he is more powerful, his divine magic is equally limited - he just has his priests double as sorcerers for an extra magical boost). I doubt the champion of Pavis has much more magical benefits than the priests - apart from the support of Pavis sorcery, which may be significant. There will be a few cities that have Rune Lords, or something like them. There are other cities that are every bit as unusual as Pavis, and far more large and powerful - Tondiji, maybe Glamour spring to mind, Sog City, etc. And their city gods would be a lot more than just city gods.
  12. davecake

    Wyter of Pavis?

    While Pavis is exceptional, the Temple Guardian example in the bestiary implies that a wyter granting access to a spell as a sub-cult/associated cult is something that happens (though not with all wyters).
  13. davecake

    Wyter of Pavis?

    I think almost no City Gods have Rune Lords (and Pavis barely does - it is more of a holdover from the RQ2 era when every cult had rune lords that they have them at all). And the status of connection to the wyter is referred to as the 'priest' - admittedly it is a different role in theory to a normal Rune priest, but I think it is a priestly role for every cult except those martial cults were the Rune Lord role has replaced Rune Priest entirely. Also, Pavis is extra weird in that it's (now) more like a small city cult with a sorcery school and a lot of 'heroquest benefits' tacked on. Its not the usual representative because almost all city gods have no rune lord equivalent at all. Pavis is a weird exception to many rules - for both Gloranthan and publication historical reasons - and we shouldn't use it as a precedent for anything, but try to make it behave more normally where we can. Yes. I don't think most city gods may not even have a dedicated priesthood - they have ceremonies, but their priests are either part of associated cult ceremonies, or leaders doing occasional ceremonies as part of their role, that amount to just collectively tending a shrine. The effectively large priesthood of Pavis is only sustainable because they are effectively a sorcerous cabal with the additional magical resources gathered by Pavis himself (eg their access to elementals, the Organstones) to draw on, probably including a fair few sorcerous artifacts when needed. I personally really like the Masks of Pavis (I don't think they are canon though), and there are the various magical defences first mentioned in Strangers In Prax, and presumably a fair stock of useful Mostali artifacts via Flintnail.
  14. Yes, you can retire from being a professional killer (a lot of older Humakti seem to become trainers as a day to day job), but not from being a Humakti, at least not without serious consequence. It is different for Yanafals Tarnils, of course - just ask them, they will be only too happy to explain how the path towards Illumination can heal the soul from the need for violence.
  15. davecake

    Pronunciation

    Yes, if there is any cross language understanding (the Guide says 'not mutually intelligible' but also says its considered a language family, so I am assume some limited similarity) it should follow the Gloranthan taxonomy. Quite where this gets into detail is a good question - we know that the different porcupine peoples are not the same, but do the various sub-type of Rathori (the multiple children of Rathor) speak the same language? Seems likely they are maybe close dialects at least (I know, for example, of some Australian Indigenous dialects that differ only by a few words and replacing/adding some syllables systematically, making them about as easy to understand as an English speaker would find a strong foreign accent). I know a little of one such, Pitjantjatjarra, and the dialect is literally named after the one common word that is different to its neighbours ('pitja', to go). Similar with the Pujaleg - I presume their languages have enough in common for it not to be a major problem with their Empire, but there could also be some magical way to work around it as well. Does Speak to <Totem Animal>, a pretty common spell, effectively mean everyone is communicating in the Hsunchen language, at least for Hsunchen? I presume that (as it allows Oratory, etc) that it's more like speaking than non-linguistic telepathy? But bears raise another interesting question - is there any linguistic connection to the non-hsunchen bear cults, like the Odayla cult, or the various other Pelorian bear cults? In general, is there any such connection between Hsunchen and non-hsunchen animal cults?
  16. Its just the extreme - minor versions of Asrelia treasure houses are everywhere throughout Esrolia at least (less so in other Heortling or earth cult lands), and they frequently invest in money-making ventures, particularly mining. Issaries is the most prevalent, and wide ranging in its activity, of the mercantile inclined cults - but it is also one of the least unified I think. Multiple extended trading networks, and lots of independents. Asrelia functions more as bankers than traders perhaps - but then, dealing with credit rather than the movement of physical goods is more a banking than a trading function. Probably a lot of the physical mechanics here are based around the whole 'tear the note in half' technique. Argan Argar networks The chain reaches there I think. The trade networks here are the 'Argan Argar Chain' (guide pg 382). The troll networks really are too separated too function as long distance chain - there are too many areas with very few trolls - so the Argan Argar cult has built up networks including human worshippers, in some places openly (the Kitori especially but possibly the Torkani, other parts of the Holy Country, etc), in other places effectively a secret society (Safelster, maybe even up to Yolp). The network probably also extends up to Fronela too. Where there are both human and troll AA worshippers, I am sure they talk to each other.
  17. davecake

    Pronunciation

    They are known as fiwan in Pamaltela. the Hsunchen languages are magical - each type of Hsunchen speak the same language in even widely separated tribes, so their languages do not experience linguistic drift. I suspect some of the other magical languages of Glorantha (Spiritspeech, the elemental languages, including Darktongue) similarly don’t experience linguistic drift, so words/names will be pronounced the same everywhere. Or even if they do not, the many immortal speakers will significantly slow it.
  18. It makes a lot of sense - he makes physical devices. Leonardo is just exposing the general Brithini idea that of course sorcery and philosophy are intrinsically linked and the highest logic as the dubious Zzaburi classism that it is.
  19. davecake

    Wyter of Pavis?

    I think the 'priest' of Pavis as wyter is also the High Priest, aka the Son of Pavis. I think the Champion of Pavis is not that important - Pavis was a sorcerer and magician, not a warrior, and the Champion is subservient to the priesthood. The Son of Pavis magically represents Pavis in various important rituals. It may well be the Pavis has his power as wyter of the Real City reduced. I don't think he performs many regular wyter functions any more, perhaps his failure to leave his temple is because of the lack of rulership of the Real city "The Pavis Temple of the Real City (in the Big Rubble) is the home of Lord Pavis. Within that magical Room Without Doors, the priests speak directly to Pavis." So the priests have regular contact with him. Quite possibly instead of moving around as an active wyter, his main magical support of the city is assisting his priests in casting powerful sorcerous rituals of various kinds.
  20. I might be drawing on info in GoG about the treasure storehouses of Asrelia temples are also used to store the valuables of worshippers on deposit and for loans? I think any worshipper (and by default, all Earth worshippers reveres Asrelia, even if not their primary goddess) is going to trust their temple unless given a VERY good reason not too. The issue is not whether the temples are trusted, but whether the temples trust each other. The situations for Issaries and Asrelia are very different. The problem with Issaries markets is that they are often fluid and changable institutions, and not usually monolithic ones - why would you expect two markets to honour the debts of each other, when the actual merchants involved might be entirely different people, with different stock, connected only by their temporary involvement in one market along their route? So it is only going to work if the various merchants involved trust one another, hence are part of the same established network. Asrelia temples, on the other hand, are large stable repositories of wealth. They might not move wealth around much, but they are used to keeping track of debts and interest etc. There are probably Argan Argar networks (but maybe only in the Shadowlands and Safelster), and Lokarnos and Etyries networks too, but whether they extend as far as dealing in credit notes will vary.
  21. I would think the real candidate for transferrable credit between temples might be Asrelia. Hide Wealth would seem to be perfect for keeping letters of credit etc well protected. The only issue is the wording of the spell " If any of the hidden goods are moved, the spell dissipates." - I take this to mean 'if any of the goods are removed from the hidden cache, rather than just physical movement relative to the Earth. Eg I think Hide Wealth be used to hide goods in a wagon or ship. Issaries merchants are traders, and certainly create organised trade networks where they can (though they would have no reason to respect credit from other Issaries traders outside their networks). Asrelia cultists are more like banks - storing deposited goods and producing them on demand is part of their role, it stands to reason one of them might have the bright idea of saving the expense of actually moving physical goods around when near identical goods have been deposited at multiple temples. In addition many temples of Issaries are markets with temporary leadership (and often more or less temporary existence - it fills up for certain market days, and might empty in between). When the rules say that Temples of Issaries honour letters of credit from other temples, I think that likely means temples of Issaries controlled by groups that form a trade network. Anything past that probably requires some convincing.
  22. davecake

    Wyter of Pavis?

    I personally think the wyter of Pavis is Pavis, but he is a special case - generally uninterested in leaving his temple, not subservient to anyone including his chief priest, more powerful than his limited number of worshippers now would imply. Acts more like a Temple Guardian than a city god most of the time, but has a pile of interesting sorcery to make up for it. Pavis is already an exception in multiple ways.
  23. Does the Farsee spell make any difference to anything within the game system, or only the the value the GM assigns it ad hoc in a particular situation? Skills have no range penalties, and the spell description implies that Farsee makes no difference to missile or thrown weapon range or accuracy at range.
  24. I doubt the Basmoli have changed much since previous editions - I expect they will be covered under Hykim and Mikyh in the Gods of Glorantha book as in previous editions. The important factor here is that Basmol was killed, and skinned, by Tada, This seemed to result in lions becoming extinct in Prax. But it doesn't seem to have stopped them wielding their magic at all. An argument could be made that Basmol died but Basmola did not or something similar?
×
×
  • Create New...