Jump to content

davecake

Member
  • Posts

    2,425
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    40

Everything posted by davecake

  1. But it does not teach that. It teaches that Chaos is not always to be feared.
  2. I definitely don’t share this feeling. We’ve known the Praxians, a very anti-Chaos culture, will use broo as mercenaries. A temporary alliance with Chaotic beings for pragmatic reasons does not seem to make you Chaotic. I think Chaotic taint is a personal thing from personal acts.
  3. Just noting that the opposite of is of course, and one of the few deities associated with the Fate rune is Artmal. And in the Pamaltelan myth cycle, the two contrasting styles of leadership (corresponding to Yelm and Orlanth in the North) are Artmal and Pamalt (though we don’t really have the Artmal side of the story). I’ve kind of taken this to imply the Artmali have a strong emphasis on prophecy (and the deep secrets of Annilla etc) and in their version the good ruler knows the deep magic secrets unknown to others. The imagery probably isn’t seen as Arachne Solara’s web, but two interlocking Truth runes - the Truth of the world that is known, and the secret Truth of the world to come. This contrasts to Pamalt, whose rulership is consensus building, so his Truth is not hidden but shared, it is the Truth of the eternal present of us together, and is discovered not by prophecy but by asking others their Truth. So Pamalt is by contrast associated with Luck, but Power (three legs not two) is more than luck, by bringing everyone into the consensus/ the Necklace, Luck ceases to control us, because bad luck for one of us is good luck for another. Not that Arachne Solara’s web should be unknown in Pamaltela, but it seems not to be as known. We know the Sunstop is a big deal there too. And there are Aranea worshippers there, but AFAIK not the spooky special Cragspider kind, just spider fans.
  4. I think most Gloranthans will believe that a Storm Bull is very dedicated to the destruction of Chaos, and I think most would presume that a Storm Bulls motivations are valid. But they are also generally not presumed to be smart, deep thinkers, so while people might presume the Storm Bulls senses are probably correct, that doesn’t mean they are going to presume the Storm Bulls advice about what to do in response is going to be followed.
  5. My general take on this issue is that in general deities and the religions that follow them are quite different things and can diverge, that humans understand this poorly, that thinking of deities either as acting distinct entities with a ‘self’ with a unitary nature and well defined borders is how this misunderstanding generally (but not exclusively) manifests itself, and this is natural to the human psyche (and so is manifested by both players and Gloranthans). Divine revelation and spiritual experiences either don’t just add more confusion, or to the extent that they provide profound insight are not directly communicable (and hello Illumination). I think Elmal and Yelmalio, and others, as essentially the same divine entity is true. But I think RQG overstates the extent to which this means this is obviously taken as proving Yelmalio is more ‘true’ than Elmal (except by Monrogh for inhabitants of Sartar and Prax) and understates the historical importance of Elmal for a bunch of reasons. And their religions can differ a fair bit for historical reasons - Yelmalio is more a collection of historical influences than original religion at this point, and all of that is just as religiously valid to follow the Elmal rites (if not politically supported in Sartar). Many associated arguments about how important it is that Yelmalio remain incredibly ineffective as a general purpose warrior cult are just damn silly, and seem driven by RQ2 era nostalgia more than anything, but can have their fun side.
  6. That isn’t quite a contradiction in terms, but it certainly seems to sort of miss the point? If you could practically create such gigantic floating thing (which seems unlikely - the Waertagi can only create their titanic dragon ships by defeating sea dragons, so presumably they’d create a floating drydock from an even bigger dragon?), you’d need a drydock for that? In any case - the other known dragon ship drydocks we know or seem to be shore based facilities, like to one in Sog City, which was presumably very similar in design. And it wouldn’t seem to make much difference Millenia later. While I do think it was a fairly big city when active, and yes, probably populated with Brithini as well as ancestors of the Oasis people, that was a very long time ago, and the rest of the city would be of much less sturdy construction and I think would be already long deserted by the time of the Gods War when it was crushed by the bouncing Bock. Only the ruins of the dock itself would survive I think. I had it inhabited by mostly weird old Waertagi magic and traps and ‘sorcerous spirits’, mostly on a Water theme, including some quite nasty ones like water elementals that are also acidic, and invoking various Waertagi ancestor gods. A vough and her brollachan spawn is also fairly obvious? (Once a more pleasant water nymph, but now clearly mad and hateful)
  7. I’ve seen other writeups of the pair that do make them explicitly Chaotic - in the free HeroQuest Glorantha scenario Highwall Inn Chaosium put up in 2019, and I’d probably stick with that IMG, because it fits better with the rest of that scenario, and I think it’s a great fun scenario (and I didn’t enjoy the treatment of the same area in Pegasus Plateau much, which didn’t really work very well as either Glorantha material or an RQ scenario to me tbh). They may have just not wanted to add information about a cult not otherwise described to characters that are a very minor part of that scenario. But FWIW - neither of them are described as cannibals themselves in either source, but thieves and murderers who butcher their guests in order to buy off the ghouls. Murder and thievery are dishonest, wicked, dishonourable - but relatively human crimes, crimes that several non-Chaotic gods are known for (Gagarth, for example). The real question about cannibalism is why is it ok to practice ritual cannibalism as part of the Praxian Cannibal Cult, or as a troll (some of whom, of course, are ritually obliged to occasionally eat their own relatives). The answers may lie in the specifics of those cases?
  8. I use those terms not after prolonged linguistic consideration, but because those are the terms that have been used previously in cult descriptions (in both Cults of Terror and Lords of Terror), and I have every reason to suppose will be used in whatever the Chaos Cults book is called (as the Cults draft write up uses those terms too). So they are the ‘right words’ to use for purposes of communicating about the Mallia cult in some common vocabulary, which I think certainly helps discussion. So I will continue to use those terms to describe those cult statuses. Perhaps we can follow the common community practice of capitalizing such Defined Terms where we need to make that distinction? And sure, they may not be the perfect terms, as there is a choice to not choose to continue to fight the disease to the point of death, so you may suggest more appropriate terminology if you want for general discussion of the issue. And certainly you can treat it becoming an Involuntary Initiate as voluntary and a despicable Chaotic act if you want - it’s not enough that you suffer, you must be additionally punished for not choosing additional suffering/doom? But I can certainly see the argument that if, due to circumstances and misadventure, you are placed in a position that allows the filth goddess to point her metaphorical disease gun at your head and say ‘give me a point of POW or I shoot’, it’s not really much of a voluntary choice, and I think it’s a fairly strong argument that it’s not a Chaotic act. And all of those writeups state that she is associated with the runes of Death and Darkness, and associated with Chaos when worshipped by broos. While I get that the classes of Involuntary Initiate and Voluntary Initiate do not map 100% to whether or not she is ‘worshipped by broos’ and thus associated with Chaos, it does seem like that is by far the most natural reading, as you can become an Involuntary Initiate without ever being anywhere near broo, or any other Voluntary Imitiate of Mallia. If it is possible to treat Mallia as simply a Death and Darkness cult, surely that is the situation for Involuntary Initiates? So the evidence from observed RuneQuest Glorantha is pretty firmly on ‘Involuntary Initiate=/=Chaotic’ to me.
  9. So the Power rune is clearly, IMO, a condition rune, like Mastery. Or rather, it’s clearly like Mastery, and we now classify Mastery as that, so Power must be too. The God Learners got it wrong, they think the Power Rune is just a variant Mastery Rune with Earth, but we all know they don’t understand Pamalt. Power is as much about Earth as Mastery is about Storm - they associate in the person of the ruling god, but not by intrinsic nature. The (very God Learner indeed) Earth Goddess book says Power isn’t real at all, just a funny word for Earth and Mastery. But that’s just the sort of thinking that led to the Six Legged Empire getting their butts whipped. I think the Power rune can implies the method of rulership of Pamalt. Pamalt does not rule simply by asserting himself as the rightfully most powerful (the Mastery way) by either unchanging rule (Stasis, the Yelm way, never truly changing, only temporarily faltering) or asserting their right to claim power over others (Movement, the Orlanth way, always open to change just Orlanth winning). Pamalt rules by continually being part of the right solution, his power as Earth King makes him always part of the Council, but what makes him the god of Power is that the Council chooses not a person, but a solution - but Pamala is always part of the solution, never part of the mistakes. The real significance of Pamalt having Power is that because Pamalt never died, and always has been the ruler, Power is the Golden Age, pre-Darkness, way of rulership. Once everyone has spoken, everyone sees what the right thing to do is. The Power rune is rulership by consensus, by the person understood to be the right leader leading. Mastery is the post-Lesser Darkness way of rulership - there is disagreement about leadership, so it must be settled by some means or other. A Doraddi Chief only ever has power contingent on the approval of the tribe*, it ultimately comes neither from lineage or his personal authority, but by continuing support that he is the Right Chieftain. Graphically, it is related to Harmony - three lines - but representing a community not simply existing together (three lines separately) but actively working as one (the different parts of the community all acting in concert), the three lines of harmony leaning together. It can be seen as the spear, with the community strength behind it, but I think that’s another God Learner mistake. But it is also the magic mountain that Pamalt sits atop, the mountain built by the community members and representing them all, but that would not exist without Pamalt. Pamalt is not the One like Yelm or first among the Many like Orlanth, he brings the Many together as a bigger One than before. The Mountain is just the macro cosmic representation, though, it is also the tripod stool that the chief sits upon, three individual lines making a greater thing that supports what could not happen before. And where Force is raw and unsupported, a point with no stability, Power is the same Force but stable. So, to truly understand Power - stop seeing it in 2D, it’s taking the three sticks of Harmony and using it to build a tripod in 3D! This also has an important secret revealed - Mastery does not care if you can prove you represent the Truth, both Yelm and Orlanth represent their own truth and don’t care if you share it as long you obey it, but building power through getting people to share the consensus must be built from shared Truth. To the Doraddi, Truth is the stool of Pamala seen from above (the view of Cronisper) or below (the view of Yanmorla), the two gods who unite Above and Below, divine and mortal. The union of Cronisper and Yanmorla is the union of spirit and divine (as symbolised by the staff of Cronisper too), but this essential primal esoteric secret must be recreated in the world by the exoteric work of coming together to maintain the ideal world by maintaining the right society. The idea that this work only seems like building the symbols and mechanisms of power, but is really about making Truth, is a cool secret that I’m sure gets revealed with a dramatic upturning of the stool of the chief in some Pamaltelan initiation ritual, maybe several. The Law rune is a different thing. It is the three sticks of Truth as a flat thing, the things as they were and will be. Power is not passive Truth, simply observing what is and using it. Power is building a new thing made of Truth, a society built on truths about the world, a magical creation that shows Truth may be used in new ways through insight (and the gods/spirits are people that can learn and gain insights about truth and so change the world, not inert descriptions of dead power like the sorcerers say). The Six Legged Empire thought they could learn all the facts about the world, and so know truth. But Hon Hoolbiktu showed that if you can make the spirits and gods and shamans and people see a different way of Truth, maybe some build a new understanding of Truth, and maybe their silly hoofed animals can not survive in the Truth of the plains like they through. They say three points define a plane -three points sounds like Bolongo to me! * ok continuing approval of the tribe means ‘approval of the rich old women’, but that just makes sense - add the rich old women headed households together, and that is the people. And many kingships have rules to make it harder to remove the king, sometimes very hard, but that that’s just a matter of local legislative ordinances and historical idiosyncracies, not a lofty matter of mythic patterns like we are discussing here. *waves hand dismissively* Cynics might also say that ‘the chief is always right, and always represents the Right Path’ is achieved by just removing any chief who makes a decision that doesn’t seem defendably the right one. Eh, no one said the mythic truth is the whole truth. It’s just like how the chieftain is always Orlanth leading the tribe to victory until he isn’t, or the Imperator is always the perfect and Just representative of Yelm until he isn’t. The biggest practical difference is that it is common for there to be no clear consensus replacement for a Doraddi king for some time. And for more prolonged paralyses of power while kings try to manipulate a group into consensus (which may sometimes look like prolonged dickering or gripe sessions to outsiders). But once a big powerful group like the Arbennan Confederation) emerges as a real power that all its members believe is needed, there is a lot of pressure for everyone to keep it conceptually in existence.
  10. It is worth thinking about the idea that the Chaos tainted Telmori provided the Sartar Royal Guard for decades. Including the bodyguards of the King of Sartar, and the House of Sartar even intermarried with Telmori at points. And the House of Sartar (including several Kings of Sartar) also associated with the Storm Bull cultists in that time, and obviously remained members in good standing of the Orlanth cult (including high priests of Orlanth Rex). And this is aside from under Lunar occupation. Even Storm Bull cultists can sometimes understand that there are reasons for Chaos taint that must be accommodated practically. Even Storm Bull cultists can hold their feelings about Chaos in check if they believe there to be a reason for what they are sensing. Sure, I don’t think a Storm Bull cultist would want to be around Telmori themselves, and they probably would remain resentful about it. The association with Telmori was, I believe, always at least controversial. But it does point to one very obvious way in which Storm Bull Sense Chaos can be ‘fooled’ - when they are correct about the presence of Chaos, but wrong about why. An ogre PC in one game (I was unsure about allowing it, but the player was keen and I did not make it easy for him - and he was not a Chaos worshipper, just tainted by birth, so effectively as Chaotic as a Telmori) once survived a brief association with a Storm Bull by this means - he had a companion who was a Telmori, a hostage as part of a peace deal with the Telmori (the Queen of the Cinsina also has Telmori hostages in her household), and by staying close to him was able to always claim that any time Chaos was sensed it must have been the Telmori. It might not have lasted forever, but it worked for a few days.
  11. and it’s a great scenario for examining some of what being fanatically anti-Chaos really means, and why it might be religious doctrine but isn’t usually an accurate depiction of behaviour (and so Storm Bull really are different in this regard). Most players will claim their PCs are 100% Chaos killers. But I certainly found that most PCs were not so keen on being the ones One very long running PC (an Orlanthi) in my longest running campaign permanently acquired the epithet ‘the Butcher’ that day, because his companions saw that he (and a Storm Bull who was with them) did not flinch from what was required.
  12. We know, and the average Gloranthan knows, that it is against the ethos of Storm Bull to lie about Chaos, that their cult and/or god might punish them for such a gross insult to their gods holy gift, etc. They, and we, know that rarely such morally unworthy acts still occur (ie spirits of reprisal etc don’t prove that such things never happen, but exist to ensure they remain very rare), that Storm Bulls are sometimes unreliable broken people - and that accusing a Storm Bull of lying about Chaos would perhaps be taken as a deadly insult. But that also they can be mistaken. There are surely many cases where a Storm Bull detects Chaos, violence ensues, and another Storm Bull can later find no trace of it. Sometimes just a mistake, sometimes the Storm Bulls will claim it must therefore be Chaotic trickery (a Chaotic spirit must have possessed them, that’s why the person you slaughtered showed no signs of Chaos!). Do you always believe them?
  13. We know, and the average Gloranthan knows, that it is against the ethos of Storm Bull to lie about Chaos, that their cult and/or god might punish them for such a gross insult to their gods holy gift, etc. They, and we, know that rarely such morally unworthy acts still occur (ie spirits of reprisal etc don’t prove that such things never happen, but exist to ensure they remain very rare), that Storm Bulls are sometimes unreliable broken people - and that accusing a Storm Bull of lying about Chaos would perhaps be taken as a deadly insult. But that also they can be mistaken. There are surely many cases where a Storm Bull detects Chaos, violence ensues, and another Storm Bull can later find no trace of it. Sometimes just a mistake, sometimes the Storm Bulls will claim it must therefore be Chaotic trickery (a Chaotic spirit must have possessed them, that’s why the person you slaughtered showed no signs of Chaos!). Do you always believe them?
  14. We know, and the average Gloranthan knows, that it is against the ethos of Storm Bull to lie about Chaos, that their cult and/or god might punish them for such a gross insult to their gods holy gift, etc. They, and we, know that rarely such morally unworthy acts still occur (ie spirits of reprisal etc don’t prove that such things never happen, but exist to ensure they remain very rare), that Storm Bulls are sometimes unreliable broken people - and that accusing a Storm Bull of lying about Chaos would perhaps be taken as a deadly insult. But that also they can be mistaken. There are surely many cases where a Storm Bull detects Chaos, violence ensues, and another Storm Bull can later find no trace of it. Sometimes just a mistake, sometimes the Storm Bulls will claim it must therefore be Chaotic trickery (a Chaotic spirit must have possessed them, that’s why the person you slaughtered showed no signs of Chaos!). Do you always believe them? Moderators, please delete the multiple copies. A forum software glitch
  15. Mallia has two forms of initiation, ‘voluntary’ and ‘involuntary’ (you initiate to Mallia as an alternative to succumbing to disease, and essentially gain no benefits except becoming a carrier of the disease without it progressing). That might also be described as propitiation, and I don’t think is Chaotic (and doesn’t require Chaotic behaviour - you could use your renewed health just to travel to a CA and seek healing, even to nurse your infected friends). Propitiary lay member worship is for protection from a disease you don’t have yet. ‘Voluntary’ initiation requires spreading disease, and is the standard Chaotic form. Though I guess a non-Chaotic form of Mallia worship is conceivable, it’s questionable whether it exists in modern Glorantha - the Gods book draft is not clear, mentioning only that it’s always Chaotic among broo, but I certainly can’t offhand think of a situation that seems non-Chaotic (ignoring the self-serving claims of cynical Illuminates). For example Mallia worship as a weapon of war in the kingdom of War (or elsewhere) sounds Chaotic to me. I think it’s better to say Chaos is plausibly detectable, but very seldom automatically. Sense Chaos is a sense, like scent or listen. Having the sense doesn’t mean you are good at it, for a start, and no one is 100% reliable. Sensing Chaos explicitly doesn’t mean reliably determining exact source or intensity, just that it’s nearby. And it depends not just on the ability of the sender, but the intensity and nature of the source. I think it is also depends not just on the innate level of Chaos, but the situation. A Krarsht sleeper agent might be quite hard to detect. An ogre doing its best to appear as a normal human likewise. And knowing Chaos is present might not tell you if it’s an ogre, tainted animals or plants, Chaotic magic, etc. Think of it as being more like a bad smell (or a ‘Chaos headache’) than a detection spell. Like we can prevent all marijuana use because we have sniffer dogs? Seriously, think like that - Sense Chaos is a *huge* help in the fight against Chaos, but skilled, reliable, practitioners are rare, and practitioners that aren’t poorly organised dangerous maniacs are rarer still, and when you have their help it is still not foolproof. And Chaos can be smart and mess with the plan. Put Storm Bulls at the gates, then Chaos will avoid the gates but find other means when they need to enter (krarshtkids are good at tunnels, for example). Or find ways to emanate the Storm Bulls (that wagon you searched turned out to contain a basilisk?). Or cause false positives (planting broo tainted livestock, krarshtkids into anti-Chaos notables homes, planting gorp). Sense Chaos doesnt counteract invisibility or Lanbril spells, and so knowing Chaos is present may still result in its escape. Storm Bulls dealing with such tactics are unlikely to remain disciplined for long. So like sniffer dogs, but instead of being trained disciplined law enforcement animals, the owners are more like bikies who own pit bulls (or are also their pit bulls). And largely alcoholics with PTSD, and so their combat abilities are a problem more often than a help. Sure, they hate and fight Chaos fanatically, but they also pick fights with, and occasionally kill, pretty much everyone else. Storm Bulls are vital when there are serious problems with Chaos, and usually a problem all the rest of the time. Illumination as has been mentioned be the only such ability, but it’s a more complex thing than just a ‘stealth Chaos’ ability. I think it’s a deliberate game world choice that there are no other abilities to make Chaos undetectable. But I think abilities like the Cacodemon False Form spell do make the practical use of Sense Chaos more difficult. In RQ2, Krarsht had the Sense Order ability that let them sense when the Storm Bulls (etc) were nearby and avoid them. I think the smarter Chaos cults do have techniques to attempt to make systematic search difficult. Krarsht has the Chaotic Krarshtide spirits, which can appear and disappear from the spirit plane triggering Storm Bull senses, but then vanishing, for example, leading searches astray and to apparent dead ends. Telmori werewolves are tainted with Chaos for historical, magical, reasons unrelated to being wolves, or to their diet. There exist (though they are rare) untainted Telmori. Other hsunchen were-people are usually no more Chaotic than normal humanity, even those that humanity finds scary (and might eat people) like Hsa were-tigers. And most Chaotic Telmori never go past their initial level of Chaos taint and never progress in any Chaos cult. Ogres are Chaotic - but slightly, and often have other magic that makes them hard to detect. Most ogres do choose Chaos cults - but usually those that also make it easier for them to conceal themselves most of the time.
  16. Moral rights: 1) aren’t internationally harmonised, even across the EU, and vary wildly and so may be very difficult to enforce internationally. This is contrast to economic rights under the Berne convention. 2) generally do not apply to derivative works, only to works with falsely claimed authorship or that deliberately misrepresents authorship. So it’s pretty you’d infringe moral rights if you simply claimed truthfully to be based on the works of Dumas, or alternatively if you made no such claim but got some inspiration from it. Creating derivative works is either an economic right, or sometimes (parody, for example) permitted, not a moral right. 3) were created long after Dumas died, and in some cases have to be specifically asserted by the owner or transferred to an heir. It’s a pretty big stretch. Moral rights are important sometimes, but usually irrelevant to the question at issue, compared to economic rights and copy rights. I can imagine situations where moral rights would matter, but it’s totally not what the situation under discussion. Note that, for example, the use of public domain works as gaming material in The Dracula Dossier to produce their own version of the novel Dracula by Bram Stoker. So moral rights is just a tangential discussion of something irrelevant. Yes, and this a very important point. A lot of famous properties have a lot of derivative works and contributions to the ‘mythos’ that are part of the original and often under copyright. The original not being under copyright doesn’t mean other associated things aren’t. Particularly film or tv images. You can’t just take an old story, and use much more recent illustrations. And sometimes, something we think of as part of the original turns out not to be. Winnie the Pooh is out of copyright, but Disney’s version isn’t, so you probably can’t have your version consistently wear a red shirt. You can have the god Thor appear in your works, even in a comic (eg a version of Thor appears an issue of the Sandman, unrelated to Marvels Thor), but you need to quite clear about it if you want to avoid trouble. But often, even if it's not the original authors work, it’s still fine - Sherlock’s deerstalker cap wasn’t invented by Conan Doyle, but it’s old enough it turns out it’s out of copyright in its own right.
  17. The Three Musketeers is not copyrighted though films and other derivate media based on it may be, especially if you use images from them. Dumas does in 1802. Sherlock Holmes is in the public domain too (Conan Doyle’s estate lost their last desperate grasping lawsuit over Enola Holmes, and now nothing of the original canon is left in copyright - but some things that originate in later films might be (this is none of the recent reimaginings wears a deerstalker hat). A few things are more complicated. Some Lovecraft is definitely in the public domain (anything published before 1928), some is possibly, but it’s unlikely. Chaosium does have the Call of Cthulhu trademark, and it’s also licensing restriction on BRP, though. Conan has until 2028. Everything else on the list is very much copyrighted, and is unlikely to leave it for decades. Your only hope is that the IP owners come up with a policy that allows fan work.
  18. This wasn’t so much about the rules system (I like RQ as a system, and I’m happy with RQG in general, though often a bit less thrilled about the ways in which it sometimes goes back to RQ2 rather than building on RQ3), as about the idea that while the Pavis cult is a standard city god rune cult (providing City Harmony and a few common spells), Pavis himself was a practitioner of EWF sorcery (that differs from the Malkioni system in some ways, especially the language it uses - it’s all Auld Wyrmish), and his cult retains many of his sorcerous secrets. The Flintnail cult was written up as a sorcerous school that taught Mostali magic, had no ‘rune magic’, and just organized itself like a cult. They were clearly apostate Mostali, though. (sorry, what follows will be baffling to those who do not have access to the Paris:Gateway to Adventure book for heroquest this will be baffling, and it’s out of print because it’s HeroQuest and they don’t own that trademark anymore, which is a pity because it’s great) I think Pavis knowing secrets of EWF Sorcery, and most of the grimoires described, is extremely cool, and should be retained as at least deep background info, though I don’t think it’s normal for Pavis initiates to learn any sorcery, and The Book of Treaties as a way to explain the Pavis cults unusual access to elementals is unneeded - Command Cult Spirit works fine. But the Master of the Faceless King grimoire is very cool as a repository of inner Pavis magic, and the Alchemical Wedding of Lord Pavis and the Book of the Original Man are cool maguffins and sources of interesting campaign ideas. All full of EWF alchemical babble. And most of the Rune spells of the RQ2 Flintnail cult are obviously in RQG as Mostali spells or common sorcery, so I think it would be very weird for the Flintnail cult in RQG to use Rune spells that imitated Mostali magic. But I think this is the planned approach, as they are all in the RBoM. It seems that Mostali magic can become Rune magic in the hands of apostates or associated cults? (See Sartar’s use of Support in the Lightbringers book) The Flintnail cult in RQ2 had fairly limited rune magic access (though could join Pavis freely) - besides common 1 pt spells, they could summon gnomes, dismiss elementals, Mold Rock, Shape Metal, Support (a section of wall), and animate a Warrior of Stone by putting a gnome in it. While removing Divine Intervention entirely would have been a problem in RQ2, Flintnails use was very weird. Most of the spells have close equivalents in Mostali magic or standard sorcery - Mold Rock is similar to Shape Stone, Support is similar to stabilize Stone, Shape Metal is similar to Shape Iron. Dominate Earth Elemental would cover most of the rest. Only Warrior of Stone isn’t duplicated elsewhere - and frankly, it should be something achievable by Mostali sorcery, probably a simple sort of enchantment used in conjunction with Dominate Elemental. I’m sure Mostali can do the same thing. And having two different, nearly the same, sets of magic spells seems a bit pointless, mostly just to precisely emulate the cult writeup from RQ2 when we knew nothing about sorcery or Modtali magic. Sorry, got a bit off track, and off topic, there.
  19. In the Bestiary, it’s just a big damn ritual, that requires among other things a big iron vat, and a Tin Diamond dwarf, so large Mostali cities are probably capable of creating Jolanti pretty regularly, but it’s pretty difficult for smaller Mostali groups to create any. I interpret it as making the Jolanti into living stone again, and as a result can’t rely on conventional stone masonry (the limbs must move because are living, not mechanically, and be a single piece of stone). Without a Tin Mostali or reasonable facsimile (Tin Diamond) they cannot bring it to life, and a statue enchanted with a spirit in it is quite different. Of course, there is a lot more potential for other enhancements. And I think the reason the Mostali don’t seem to around creating truly giant Jolanti, Faceless Stone Statue size, is that probably does require a Tin True Mostaki, plus a truly enormous vat. Maybe they had to be made of Living Stone at the time - eg before elves killed Stone in the Lesser Darkness. Note in Paris the Flintnail dwarves probably do a lot of working around these requirements by using parts of the Faceless Stone Statue instead of I burning the stone with life themselves. I also differ from most of this thread (though it’s funny) in that I don’t think dwarves are part mechanical, or fabricated mechanically. They try to transform themselves to have some of the characteristics of living metal alchemically (as well as become more suited to caste tasks). Cut them open, they are flesh, just tough and weirdly mineral. They are not stamped out of molds - but the process may include a fair bit of being marinated in vats. And yes, the application of heat is an alchemical process too. Diamond dwarfs are not cyborgs (at least, not the mechano-surgical kind), they are the result of incredibly difficult, expensive and unpleasant processes to try to transform themselves to be made of living metal like True Mostali (in the hopes that eventually the Mostali of old can be recreated). They probably do start as living clay, in their understanding (though with organs and stuff). Of course, the World Machine is a machine, but not a simple mechanical one (that is a basic symbolism/metaphor to make it comprehensible to mortal minds), but a magical and alchemical one. IMO a Flintnail cultist can count as part dwarf for these purposes - it’s what you know rather than mere ancestry, the Tin and Quicksilver dwarves have a lot of experience in adjusting properties of mortal bodies as needed. But they may need to transform themselves, temporarily or permanently, by some alchemical processes for some things. Of course those processes are somewhat untested on humans, and volunteers to continue the research are rare. Back in the time of Pavis, though, a glorious time for vital research into necessary metaphysical repair processes! Pavis and Flintnail worked together for groundbreaking research into the nature of the Man rune and mortality, and the magical manipulation of the Man rune. (FWIW, I think it’s obvious I thought the version of Flintnail and Pavis in Pavis: GTA for heroquest was extremely cool, and I’m a bit concerned the ‘back to RQ2’ tendencies of some current writing will revert it rather than run with it).
  20. Yes. Sandy and Greg both seem to like prehistoric creatures, and it an help a lot knowing what animals look like.
  21. Plenty of people in our world want to be predatory bullies and get stuff for free, and they don’t even get magic for it. Gagarth is a god who approves of your mean bullying ways, and gives you magic for it too.
  22. In Heortling Mythology there are a bunch of minor Lowfires named, though that wasn’t one of them. Pananala was one, god of the pottery fire (pit firing pottery precedes kilns by millennia). If it’s a true kiln, Gustbran maybe. We can also consider that we can effectively consider some new gods to be effectively just new names for old gods.
  23. I once did a huge campaign arc in which the Lunars (with their Yelm priests and other magicians like the Red School of Masks had contrived to summon Daga to weaken all the Praxian tribes without access to sources of water (like the Zola Fel), and the PCs had to do a huge re-enact of Orlanths defeat of Aroka, travelling in a huge spiral around Pavis collecting various winds from various foes along the way. it climaxed with fighting the Sea dragon at the centre of the Puzzle Canal, and once it was defeated by the parties Wind Lord leader (using all the collected winds in the battle), while the rest of the party battled the Coders who had been sent to stop them, they freed the Thunder Bird and brought rain to Prax. That might be a little more than you were looking for, but maybe it will give you idea. maybe Windwhistler can be your stand in for both sun and dragon. Oakfed is a spirit that can be summoned by Praxian shamans, maybe a bunch of them from the fire spirits spirit society? Let them summon a bunch of fire elementals, boost them with Oakfeds Create Wildfire spell? Throw around a bunch of ignite spells, try to burn up a bunch of plant offerings because Oakfed is hungry and thinks he deserves them all? A few Praxian warriors just for variety maybe? The Impala are the most fond of Fire among the major tribes (little guys who are expert missile combatants, with Fire Arrow?), but the spirit societies are cross-tribal so whoever you like really.
  24. While I’m not 100% sure whether Orstan the Orlanthi Carpenter god is fully officially consigned to the the Hero Wars publication era memory hole, he could indeed work wood etc. But it’s really besides the point - I could easily imagine a patron deity of wood workers being instead a tree deity who ensures they can get the fine wood,they need, and without being targeted by Aldryami. Or the god who made the first axes and whittling knives, and still knows the secrets of making the best. Though the god who manifests the skill in question will be the default - I’m reminded of the Kralorelans, who have the 700 ancestors who each mastered one of the arts of civilization. Certainly not the only pattern. Look at some of the very odd reasons for assigning Catholic patron saints to various professions.
  25. While I think Gustbran is assumed to be a craftsman himself now, that is really not why he is the god of smiths and potters. He is the god of the forge and the kiln. Lokarnos is the god of the wheel, and may once have been a god of chariots - but now he is mostly worshipped by people who haul goods for money, whether or not his mysteries pay much attention to his mercantile associations. But also professional dominated cults naturally evolve to become guilds and professional associations. It doesn’t matter if Gustbran is a smith himself, his cult is full of smiths who share their knowledge with other members. If every smith in town is a member, and shares divine worship, trying to keep control over their profession and keeping outsiders out of the business becomes pretty natural, and lets the priests of the cult get pretty tight control.
×
×
  • Create New...