davecake

It depends quite a bit on what you mean by 'spirits as a troop type'. In Dragon Pass, spirits are the game mechanic for how magicians attack at a distance. Its not necessarily indicative of either animism, or powerful individual beings that we would call spirits. Rather, it indicates that magicians who attack at a distance mostly do so by invoking some sort of powerful otherworld entity to do so (though discorporation may also be a factor). The magicians involved are mostly either Lunars who are part of the Lunar College of magic, or part of the Sartar Magician Union, and generally they combine a mixture of magical techniques to produce one massive ritual - but the 'spirits' involved are mostly a result of theist worship (or the Lunar equivalent of such), perhaps guided by the spirits of discorporate shamans or sorcerous perception spells. Without wanting to spoil the campaign, there is quite a bit of close up information on how such a magical unit is put together in The Coming Storm. And in Dragon Pass, some of those units aren't Spirits at all, but game conventions to describe other forms of long distance attack, magical or not, but this mostly applies to the Physical Magicians whose 'spirits' don't have a Magic Factor but have a Combat Factor - eg the Stormwalkers 'spirits' are mostly elementals, but the Cannon Cults 'spirits' are just a game mechanic for describing artillery (though some form of magic may be involved for forward observation). In Nomad Gods, the spirits there are much more like Spirits as we know them (even so, a single counter generally doesn't represent a single spirit, but more like a single great spirit and a large entourage of lesser spirits). When @David Scott describes what happens in terms of spirits in Nomad Gods he is correct, though a lot of things he says are quite misleading, because he is ignoring/confusing the Spirit units in Dragon Pass. Just because they are spirits (which may be other forms of magical discorporate being) doesn't mean they can only attack using Spirit Combat. Powerful spirits are capable of using various forms of magic in their own right - for example, Oakfed spirits can start fires. But saying that - the existence of Spirit Block and Spirit Screen doesn't mean its easy to protect an entire unit with them. Some units will be trained in various forms of magical defence, and/or have magicians who are practiced in the necessary techniques to defend the entire unit, some will not. A wyter absolutely can protect, but only to a point versus a concerted assault. All this is indicated by the variation in the defending units Magic Factor. Humakti aren't even opposed to ghosts! The Humakt cult has the Bind Ghost spell, and the spirits of dead Humakti are often part of the magical defences of Humakti! Humakt is quite clear - they hate undead such as zombies and vampires, but ghosts are just dead, their spirits have totally left their bodies. and so they are quite fine! That said, it is not a form of attack that Hunakti themselves would favour - their traditions are very much about being soldiers and hand to hand combat - but I'm sure they would be fine with them as defences, or with allies using such magic. Its a matter of learning how to summon and talk to powerful otherworld beings, but not necessarily by animist means and not necessarily dead ones. Sometimes the spirits involved might be more like weaponised wyters. Or summoned demons. Depends on who your magicians are. The answer is both can happen, but it depends on the unit, and other forms of magic are possible too. In Dragon Pass/Nomad Gods terms, this is dependent on the Magic Factor of the Unit - a high Magic Factor indicates a unit that is likely to have a powerful wyter/vexilla and other magical backup. Read the description of what happens when the Zorak Zoran spirit of retribution, Hellroar, attacks, it provides active spirit support to the warriors rather than attacking, but that support is very powerful defence against spirits. So I don't think Zorak Zoran worshippers are likely to use spirits in the sense of a Dragon Pass or Nomad Gods spirit unit, that I don't think they use spirits as a means of long range attack like 'magician; units - but this doesn't at ALL mean they don't use them in battle, rather they use them as direct combat support, which might manifest as a Dragon Pass/ Nomad Gods sense units having a relatively high Magic Factor, and in RuneQuest terms as them preferring to use spirits defensively and in direct support. But as far as access to spirits and magical support, Zorak Zoran is stronger than the average - their priests have access to ghosts, shades and salamanders. If you fight Zorak Zorani, especially the rare relatively well organised ones, expect their berserks to have magical backup. And such a well organised group would probably recruit shamans to assist anyway.

I don’t think Sheng has active worshippers, he is trapped in Hell. But there might be people trying to emulate his Mystic path to power, the Jolaty or zolathi path. Now his path takes close to 100 years to find its way to full hero status, maybe a little less. Sheng endured Kralori prison and torture, but he taught his nomad followers that scrupulously following the harsh nomad life style would work, that that way you could become a demigod. Like most powerful mysticism, it’s magic that enhances and enables other magic, rather than an exclusive practice - as taught by Sheng, it was harsh asceticism practiced in addition to rigorous practice of traditional nomad magic. Now, the Nights of Horror was in 1506. Say you were an infant nomad whose father died in 1506. His death, and the unspeakable horrors inflicted on your people by the Lunars, has been somehow that has tormented you your whole life, you swear vengeance, but don’t know how - then as a young man you hear of Sheng’s magic path (perhaps from an old survivor who has also sworn vengeance, perhaps even many hundreds have been taught...). A century of hiding in Pent following the harsh nomad lifestyle later, you have finally become the mighty hero you needed to be. Which would give us a number of Pentan demigods, schooled in Sheng’s mighty and merciless ways, coming into their full power right about..... now.

I'm sceptical about Sandy's Superhero Rune theory myself. And about Sheng being Spirit, doubly do. Sheng was a shaman - he was a great magician of a mostly Shamanic culture. And he has incredibly powerful spirits that follow his bidding. But Sheng's great secret and great power is essentially Mystical, though most would regard it as an abuse of mysticism (a different abuse than Gbaji perhaps, but still an abuse). It is based on ascetism and suffering as a path to power. That is the secret that made him greater than all the other shamans. When Sheng was only the greatest shaman of Pent, the Kralori had no problem defeating him, it was only when he returned from 100 years of torture (austerities) that he was a challenge. Thinking of him as a shaman only is like thinking of Lokomayadon as an Orlanthi. have Though it is possible that all superheroes have some Mystic insight. Harrek doesn't obviously, but could easily have been Illuminated during his period as a Dart Competitor.

I agree with @Jeff - no ram magic, but probably a cool horned helmet (and even if he didn't have one, is probably now regularly depicted with one). I like the idea that it is a symbolic reference to his warlike nature. It makes total sense that rams would be seen as a symbol of war (and yes, most of the epithets of the Seven Mothers are symbolic). The helmet is almost certainly a commemoration of the battle between Urvairainus and the Ram People. Either a custom of the warriors (officers?) of the warriors of the Northern Oslir region (including Yuthuppa were Yanafal is said to be from) of commemorating the victory by wearing the hats (and image of the sacred Iron Ram) they stole from their conquered enemies, or deliberate invocation of the ancient enemies by Carmanian conquerers (though the latter seems unlikely, given that Urvairainus beat them soundly).

As others have said - most Agimori are of normal human size, and are just people of a particular ancestry and skin colour. The Praxian Agimori, the Men and a Half, are a small specific group, and only in Prax would people assume that Agimori are abnormally large or require less water. The Agimori myth, as found in Revealed Mythologies, is that the original 333 people, the Agi, were giants who needed no food or water, and did not burn, and never aged, and had no children. Most of them have been died by other means now, but some still live in the desert and are now known as Agitori to distinguish them from the Agimori. They asked Pamalt to change, as they wanted to be fertile and live in a fertile land. By drinking water, some of them became fertile (and the ancestors of all Agimori people) but aged, and needed to eat and drink. The Praxian Agimori are a group who have carefully drunk as little water as possible, and observe other rituals, and so have preserved some of the characteristics (size, strength, limited need for water, fireproof, etc.) of their demigod ancestors. According to them, they left Pamaltela before becoming mortal, and gained mortality from Ernalda not Pamalt, but the chronology on this seems a bit unlikely, so it may or may not be true. According to Borderlands, it is possible to be adopted into the Men and A Half and gain most of their unique characteristics (among other things, it makes the drinker grow in stature!) by a ritual that includes drinking a special potion, something that is frequently fatal. I suspect the normal Men and a Half also use this potion in their rituals, especially initiation, but do not run the same risk of death as their lifestyle and inheritance either prepares the user for the drinking at initiation and/or involves regular less extreme consumption as they grow. Its also notable that the Men and a Half attribute all their magic to Lodril (known to them as Baba Ulodr, presumably originally the Pamaltelan Balumbasta not Pelorian Lodril, but also presumably identified with Lodril centuries ago, probably in the First Age), but active Lodril worship is relatively rare amongst them. There are a group of Agimori in Laskal who are related to the Praxian Agimori, but I suspect they have (due to drinking more water, due to living in a river valley not a barren desert, etc) not retained as much of their ancestral magic as the Praxian Agimori. They live in the cities of Deshmador and Oron, and the Zuama river valley, and are noted as being strikingly tall. So they may be intermediates between the average Agimori, and the Praxian Agimori. The term Doraddi may be used as a synonym for the Agimori, but I tend to use it more as a cultural name.

While technically true, the cult has been written about, both as part of the Seven Mothers and separately, for multiple editions and rules sets, and I think this is literally the first time I can recall anyone ever making your suggestion that its a sheep cult, let alone in any official source. This is an extraordinarily silly thing to say. So, 'Spindle Hag' - so, its about... spinning yarn? 'Bridge of the Seeker' - the Danfive Cult and magic is about literal bridges, as in the architectural feature? 'Brown Man' - Irrippi Ontor magic somehow literally involves the colour brown? 'Binder Within' is not to be interpreted as a metaphor about unity, but literally about tieing things up?

The HQG and Pavis book versions of 7 Mothers are both quite recent, and quite similar, so I'd tend to stick with them for now, at least until RQG comes out. Recent writings (eg the Lunar history from the Glorantha Source book from the 13th Age kickstarter) is that Yanafal is still very much considered an ex-Humakti who has battled his previous God directly, but of course it is Carmanian Humakt, and there may be many details in attitude between them and the Heortlings we are used to. Quite likely the difference between the 7M version and the Heartland one, apart from the 7M one recruiting via conversion of Humakti rather than directly (which obviously will have an effect on their abilities and attitudes) is that the Heartland version acts more as an officer corps as you say, and trends much more towards using the sorcerous magic of the cult, which are probably also mostly Lunar battle manuals, especially the Forty Nine Strategems grimoire mentioned in the Pavis 7M writeup.

I think extrapolating an entire ram magic tradition that is literally never mentioned anywhere in any of the various descriptions of the cult from Cults of Prax through to HeroQuest Glorantha, or in the description of any other cult, and does not fit into any of the mythical or runic associations of the cult, just because it is used as an epithet, seems to me to be a stretch at the very least.

The ViSaruDaran and BesedEria story in the Entekosiad is roughly the Lodril and Oria story with different names. Lodril seeks a wife, visions lead him to the underworld, to the house of DeshKorgas the Monster Man, and his wife Annara Gor. DeshKorgos defeats him at ouranekki many times, wagering a little power each time, until Lodril is just a powerless slave. Lodril seduces Annara Gor with his warmth, which heals her. Their child is Veskerele. She tells Lodril the secret -to defeat DeshKorgas, heal him, for he cannot be where compassion is. So he is no longer the ruler, now Lodril is the ruler. he makes Veskerele the ruler of the second hell. Lodril goes into the third hell, frees the three sisters he finds there (Dendara, Gorgorma, Oria), and marries Oria, fathers ten sons, and they rule the third hell together. Monster Man is locked up in the fourth hell with all the other wicked evil gods.

As any Lunar can, they can use their Lunar Rune as Chaos, but they then are expelled from the cult unless they are Illuminated. And of course their swords are curved, not straight. I do not think they normally get access to any of Humakts Truth magic, though it may be common for them to access Truth Powers once they are Illuminated and may use the magic of other phases.

Ram helmets, yes. Not so sure of much directly ram related magic. I suspect it’s just an indication that he follows a particular Yuthupan custom. The Seven Mothers sub-cult of Yanafals is basically an entry path into the Yanafals for missionary converts, but it’s an entry path to more or less the same cult. Treat them as a Seven Mothers initiate (as per HeroQuest Glorantha or Pavis book) that has the Empty Half Moon phase, and is an initiate of Yanafals as a Lunar Immortal. So they have access to Darkness and Death magic, both through their Lunar phase and also Death directly. They most use Lunar Evocations that mimic divine magic to cast fear (Darkness) and combat magic, and also have access to Darkness and Death based Lunar sorcery for more specialised combat magic. They can use their Death Power for more or less everything that Humakt can, only their direct Sever Spirit is weaker. It is also useful to read the Lives of Sedenya part 3, which details Yanafals part in the Goddess quest, and why Yanafals has conquered Death (and so may be resurrected). He can also use his Darkness Rune to confront Darkness - this may reflect both his wandering sin the underworld, and his status as one of the Four Arrows of Light, able to confront Carmsnian Darkness magic.

I agree that most of the remaining Elmal worshippers reject the vision of the Many Suns. I don't think most Orlanthi really think of Elmal as a weird sub-cult per se, but they do think of it as a weird religious dispute between the sun worshippers. The important thing for most traditional Orlanthi is that the Elmal are worshippers with an odd religion, but the Yelmalio worshippers are guys with a whole weird lifestyle. Eg Elmal clans still have chiefs and fyrds and clan rings. Yelmalio clans have Counts and Templars and a more unified religious hierarchy. In the Coming Storm the Elmal/Yelmalio dispute is the cause of several feuds and deaths, and that seems to be how the Elmal cultists that remain are resisting, at the individual/clan level. But the Yelmalio cult is far more organised, and is operating at a more tribal level, creating a whole tribal level community in Sun County, and converting the whole leadership of the Vantaros/

I think HeroQuest affinities have an intrinsic degree of abstraction compared to RuneQuest (well, all HeroQuest abilities, and all Keywords in particular). Use of your Fire affinity means all the Fire magic you have, most of which will be divine magic through your cult but not all. Magicians that are total purists about method are relatively rare, and for most cults it would be considered a bit weird. Most cults have a primary magical method and core practice, with a whole bunch of other stuff kind of accreted around it over centuries of tradition.

Arkat was a sorcerer. He became a Man of All very early in his career. And as an Illuminate, no reason why he wasn't continuing to practice and improve his sorcery for the next many decades after that - the evidence being he founded a school of sorcery and created several spells. And being a man of all means that you are able to balance the warrior path, intellectual pursuits, and other aspects of life. Arkat contains multitudes, and just because his warrior acts loom larger to you, doesn't mean he isn't capable of intellectual or sorcerous achievements. Spell creation could be considered heroquesting in the Essence plane. But thats another way of saying its a complex intellectual achievement that requires magical power and intellectual discipline. Experimentation may or may not be part of it depending, lab work depending. Given the nature of Arkat's magic, his experimentation probably took a different turn, but the evidence is clearly that he is a master sorcerer - among other things... I wouldn't be surprised if all super heroes are Illuminated one way or another (some are taught, some it happens via heroquest such as visiting the Green Age), and have access to more than one form of magic directly or indirectly. That sort of deep range of magical techniques is probably part of what lifts a superhero above a hero, as well as raw power.

I agree that the Yelmalions think Elmal is a misguided variant of Yelmalio. I don’t th8nk the Elmal worshippers think the same about Yelmalio, those weird Emperor lovers with no fire. As for Elmal being subservient to Orlanthi, it’s the cult with the most established set of chieftain rites besides Orlanthi.

I don’t know about Sunbright (a case could be made either way, Elmal has some light magic to illuminate their surroundings but it might not be as good as Sunbright), but Elmal has the ability to see in darkness, so presumable also has access to Catseye. And Elmal has magic to burn trolls, so presumably has some troll fighting magic that Yelmalio doesn’t have. Both cults are excellent troll fighters, IMO. If Yelmalio has an advantage, it’s largely in their tight formation tactics, which admittedly work excellently with Sunbright.

First, I think mythically Yelmalio should have worse magic than Elmal *in the base case*, because otherwise the loss of his Fire powers basically becomes meaningless. So just simply that should mean that Elmal has better access to not just combat magic (and he clearly does, because Yelmalio combat magic is unusually rubbish), but all that fire brings. Elmal keeps you warm at night. And it really clearly shouldn’t just be Shield is the one advantage Elmal has, because retaining access to his Fire powers should be a bigger one. And yes, there hasn’t been an official RQ write up, but there was an official HQ2 one, and it came as close as a non-RQ write up could to saying ‘Elmal uses Fire Arrow and Fire Blade spells regularly’. Well, it actually says “Initiates can use their affinity with the Fire Rune when fighting with spears, throwing javelins, or using the bow. They often use this affinity to make their spear points or arrows burst into flame, or dazzle foes with a magical glow from their shields or armor.” Quite a big advantage, given that Yelmalio has almost no useful combat magic available below ranking Priest level. And it’s not just that at that introductory initiate level Elmal has better fighting magic - it’s also that for Elmal initiates, joining Yelmalio specifically requires you to give up your regularly used combat magic. It’s a net negative. And Elmal should get Catseye, based on S:KoH (they can use their Fire Rune to ‘see in darkness’). And of course both may have access to Salamanders - but Elmal should have the advantage there too. The gifts might be worth the switch - if they didn’t come with random geases that might cripple you. But they do. The magic is cool - but not overwhelmingly cool. A 1 point Siz advantage is handy, yes. But if you have to give up wearing armour (or even just head armour) you’ve really lost out on the deal. Instant mastery sounds great - but only if you aren’t pretty good anyway. Instant mastery is, for example, of quite limited use to the Rune Lords who already have to be weapon masters. It’s really only a great deal as an unskilled initiate. In fact, you can definitely lose on the deal if gaining mastery in a cult weapon requires you to give up shields and you are already skilled in shield. Command Hawk is cool - but a heap of magic for your horse, that you actually ride into battle, and use everyday, that is even cooler. Elmal also has - some anti-Chaos magic, that Yelmalio mostly lacks (his most famous myth has him losing to chaos). He can burn trolls, Yelmalio magic mostly just makes them squint. And yes, Sunspear - but only for ranking priests. It’s good, but Elmal access to Fire should balance it out, and for everybody, not just a small elite. It’s handy for some specific uses (such as wanting to toast a specific king you don’t like, as per KoS p169), but weakening the magic of almost everybody to benefit a small minority most often is a net weakening. Plus Elmal requires you to give up ambitions of being chief, may require you to divorce your wife, etc, Mostly I just don’t even understand the argument. It’s clear that there are advantages to moving to Yelmalio as a whole clan, or even a large group, but it’s a big social shift. It’s clear that there are cultural reasons behind the cults success, and history that explains it, but it’s mostly a whole group that changed to a more northern lifestyle as whole clans. All this explains the Glorantha we have now - why also make the demonstrably weak argument that their magic is clearly better, when it’s unneeded, and in some ways problematic?

Even if you don’t buy my argument that actually gifts are not that amazing (a lot of them are cool rather than powerful, and come with a risk of a crippling geas), your argument relies heavily on Sunspear for ranking priests. I will accept that Yelmalio has good magic if you are a ranking Priest - but the problem is Elmal has better spell access for literally everyone who isn’t a ranking Priest. So, you know, over 95% of the cult. The better magic argument looks just straight out wrong to me for most individuals (anyone not a ranking Priest, including most priests). As I said, I think Yelmalio is a powerful cult for a large group - well organised soldiers, some good magic for the people at the top, gives the cult multiple strong military specialties, solid community support spells, etc. But I think it should be acknowledged that it’s a relatively weak choice for individuals, especially compared to Elmal. Or even any group small enough not to include ranking priests. And as such, represents an interesting cultural shift for very individualist Heortlings. One really interesting thing that struck me as an interesting example of this - to most Heortlings, geases like wear no armour effectively renders you a non-combatant. You simply should give up fighting, it’s too dangerous without armour (woad bring a special case not applicable to Yelmalions). But to a Yelmalion Templar, it can mean ‘not in the first rank’. You can wield a pike from the second rank and trust in the person in front of you. It isn’t Yelmalio telling you not to be a combatant, it’s Yelmalio telling to be Soldier and learn to trust and rely on your fellow soldiers. Which is very not Heortling.

I am also still very keen on the idea that Yelmalio, besides it’s more Pelorian emphasis on the group rather than the individual, also still has significant cultural vestiges of its First Age connections to mysticism. Gifts and geases are very unusual magic for a divine cult, that looks very suspiciously similar to the mystic practice of austerities. And of course they have an ascetic meditation tradition for senior priests. Not that I’m suggesting that all asceticism or use of austerities is mystic, or that Yelmalio is an active mystic cult now, just that it makes a lot of sense that these practices are rooted in their mystic history. I’m not quite sure how it would work mechanically, but it’s pretty obvious that if Illumination let’s you break geases without losing the gifts in some way, then it becomes a potent magical combination, you can see how this might make the First Age Daysenerus cult a powerful path for Nysalor followers. (This also makes me think that the Humakt practice of gifts and geases could have originated with Arkat similarly adopting mystic practices into the cult).

The better magic claim is interesting - because it’s a very dubious claim! Especially dubious in RQ terms. Yelmalio traditionally has quite weak magic, apart from the gifts. They are cut off from the best fire related magic both battle (forbidden Firearrow and Fire Blade) and Rune (no large Salamanders), and most of the cult special magic is utility rather than martial (Sunbright of course has significant utility against some foes, but is minor against most). Only when quite senior do they see the advantage of Sunspear. Elmal on the other hand, with full access to the Fire Rune, seems to favour flaming blades and arrows, and generally have quite solid and effective combat magic from the start. And in RQ2 Yelmalio gifts and geases were quite a crapshoot! Some gifts were minor, few major, some of mild utility. And a random geas could have almost no effect on play (your Sun County Yelmalio may no longer eat horse meat, which he never encounters), or cripple your characters combat utility at a stroke (eg your Templar is suddenly no longer allowed to use the shield he has carefully mastered). And geases like ‘wear no armour’ or ‘wear nothing on your head’ may bring the oath swearer closer to god, but may also bring them much closer to the afterlife! Where Yelmalio shines is that it’s organised, especially militarily - you can see it being more effective than Elmal at a societal level, producing well trained soldiers where Elmal produces individual warriors. But you can also see that being a problem for the spread of the cult, as well - a lone Elmal warrior in a clan is just another odd warrior, but Yelmalion skills and abilities seem mostly valuable in a group - whole clans may convert to Yelmalio, changing many things about their society and shifting it significantly from Heortling individualism to a more Northern communal model, but it would be a much harder sell to individuals or small groups. And the warrior vs Soldier dichotomy may favour the Yelmalions as a society, but it doesn’t favour them as PCs!

New-Platonists for sure. Also actual Plato - Loskalm is a magical Republic, and I think the Western understanding of the Runes is pretty much Platonic Forms. And yes, I use the Kabbalah as one useful model for Western magic, though not so much traditional Judaism as a model for the West (though some aspects fit). Also John Dee’s Enochian magic, particularly for God-Learners (wildly anachronistic, but magic, especially Western magic, isn’t going to always progress the way it did terrestrially in a world where it works so effectively, and the God-Learners show that). Medieval Solomonic magic just a bit, but with care.

Yes, and some consistency between game systems would be very useful too. I don’t think we are going to get it.

I think of the sects as described in earlier sources as being something less like a medieval Christian sect, and more like an Islamic madhhab (or schools of religious jurisprudence). They are intellectual traditions of argument, differentiated in large part by their meta-reasoning about which sources of insight are weighted in which way, that are inextricable from, but not the same as, the political divisions that accompany them. And they are intellectual traditions based on learning and study, but as they are core to social institutions like the courts they are political as well. To a large extent, as Peter says, they care a lot about the beliefs of the wizards (and nobles), far less about the commoners (and warriors). And when I talk about their meta-reasoning, I mean that the schools are distinguished, as a high level, by how they deal with the various sources of knowledge available to them. All schools interpret their texts literally, allegorically, mystically, and morally, but not all in the same way or with the same weight. They have rules for deciding which texts are to be relatively weighted (including works of Zzabur, different parts of the Abiding Book, witnesses, apocrypha, other Ascended Masters, precedents, commentaries, and mundane texts), and continually produce more such texts. They also have magical investigative techniques to use, as well as mundane techniques like how they rate witnesses and testimony or mundane legal codes, or even (gasp) empirical investigation in some cases. In practice, its all pretty complicated, as codes of practice that run an entire society often are, but we can ignore most of it luckily. The Rokari are dogmatic because of their history, and enforce a single rule of how to interpret and practice Malkioni Law. But the God Learners, by contrast, included multiple competing schools of thought within the one Empire. And Tanisor, lacking a political institution to enforce conformity, is very diverse as a result. I think the fightng orders are more than barely disguised, over a millennia later, but yes, they are a long way from being orthodox Rokari institutions. And as long as they are restricted to the warrior caste (which probably doesn't even have internal mechanisms for settling issues of theological orthodoxy the way the wizard caste does) no one pays much attention. I agree that the Golden Lance and the Humble Calligraphers may no longer exist, and I am fairly sure that any institution that has the name of a specific person in it no longer exists as a Rokari religious institution (though may exist as a sorcerous tradition), including any Order of Xemela or Gerlant, as the Rokari disdain for reverence of Ascended Masters is a core part of their belief system. I do think that confusing sorcery schools with schools of Malkionism doesn't help and should be avoided, its unfortunate (but understandable) that we seem to have settled on the same terminology for each. The Malkioni schools are broad intellectual traditions about both meta-knowledge and textual knowledge, and its application to settling issues of governance and theology, but the sorcery schools are communities/traditions of practice and practical knowledge distinguished more by subject and technique of sorcery. Most sorcery schools are not associated with a particular school of Malkionism - eg Debaldan schools teach Water magic, and is taught practically anywhere on the Neliomi sea coast, and has been used by Rokari, Hrestoli, Brithini and Waertagi. Some schools are associated with a particular sect (eg the Zendamalthan), but others much less so. And even the ones that associated with a particular school may not be rigidly so - a Rokari Zzaburi could consult a Zendamalthan book about geometry, just as long as he doesn't get any weird ideas about Joy. But in general, a school of sorcery is mostly important only to sorcerers, a school of Malkionism is also of great importance to nobles, and thus everyone.

The vicious Aldryami wars of the First age are still very much canon (mentioned in the Guide in multiple places). Aldryami have, at least in the first age, made savage war upon each other. and I'm sure axes were a large part of that. Though Aldryami wars are also much more complex slow (compared to human wars) ecological contests, and probably magical battles too. Elves as military combatants are very much stronger at defence than offence, IMO. Elf forests are relatively easy to defend against most military attack, but consolidating a conquered area is relatively slow. War trees are easier to grow than to move, dryads are very powerful but cannot travel, between Plant Spys, Camouflaged scouts and runners etc Aldryami can have almost total knowledge of movements within their territory, etc. I think elf wars often consist of holding and slowly expanding territory while changing its ecology to make it hostile to the other faction (factions being organised around types of tree/forest mostly), rather than big set piece battles etc. But consolidating territory by hacking down all the trees of the foreign type is part of it. Of course, modern Aldryami think all this is a terribly bad idea and that they should stick together against the other races. Its also notable that the biggest Aldryami Empire in history was largely peaceful, and conquered (at least other Aldryami) by magical/political means. But elves still remember that axes are death, and are designed to be used against their own kind.

I’ve long suspected that Ursula Le Guins Earthsea books have had some influence on Glorantha. But I was surprised to discover a reference to intoxicating hazia-root. I wasn’t able to discover any other references to hazia as an intoxicant, is this where we got it from? (And then of course there is Roke Domdanalash in the East Isles, but I take that to be more direct recent homage (noting also Domdaniel))