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Quackatoa

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Quackatoa last won the day on November 4

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About Quackatoa

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    Advanced Member

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    Lancashire

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  • RPG Biography
    Stew Stansfield, duck-fondler
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    Glorantha
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    Lancashire
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    'owdo!

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  1. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    I don't know, I'm afraid! Have at it! 😃 [In my own Glorantha I used to know (-ish), but... changed my mind. In my original notes on the Kings & Queens List, Blackscap the Mad is listed as ruling 1446–1449. But I ended up shifting him to over a hundred years earlier, 1311–1327, and altered things around that. The original notes had no mention of any king or queen immediately following. Prior to 1497, the next undated annotation simply reads Brackblood? The Lothario. But I'm a bit funny with whole Kings & Queens stuff these days. I did that at a time when I was still working out how to approach ducks, and these days I suspect I'd go about things quite differently. There's always room for a ladies' [hens'] duck, though! 😃]
  2. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    Thanks for the comments, Joerg! Well, here goes the afternoon... But seriously, I'll pull out some of the main comments/queries and give my own thoughts, albeit separately, as the forum software isn't the easiest for that. 1. Ducks & Runes: I was going to illustrate the ring on a diagram, and runes were one way of communicating information in a different way/at a different level. Some of the choices were trickier than others, though my thoughts were near-exactly in line with yours. Some were meant to be slightly mysterious, or not necessarily literal. The 'Barntar' rune is probably a hangover from when runes like that were also used in a general sense for things associated with the god (i.e. the rune is often marked as 'Farming', and not just in the sense of Barntar's affinity). Ducks will obviously turn over the soil, but not in the full Barntar way, so I did almost change it to Plant (though that can bring up other complaints, depending on how you read it; you buggers will always find a way! ) and IMG the Cabbage Ducks live fairly close to the Old Elf Ruins. Still might, I think. OR COME UP WITH MY OWN RUNE FOR THE CABBAGE GODDESS! If I can find a variant rune for the Marsh Ducks—something more in tune with Martin et al.'s write-up in Tales—I likely will; that's the most stop-gappy one. I know what you mean about, say, 'Reed Ducks'. I took all the names bar one—the Shell Ducks, representing my own penchant for ducks wearing snailshell hats—from KoDP. I know those clans are from the Resettlement Period, but it meshes with people's previous knowledge and the numbers match up fairly well with population figures. 2. Joseph Greenface: Yep! It was intentional. (In my original draft he actually had three seats on the ring, but I dialled it back a bit.) 3. Ducks & Water/Myth: My main issue is this: If we think about real-world ducks for a moment, we know that, as waterfowl, they're good in both the air and the water. That's their dual schtick. But if we anthropomorphize them and place them into Glorantha, taking away their wings and power of flight, they lose a fundamental part of that. People will understandably dig into that and seek the reasons and stories behind it. It's fun. I get that. But why are they still good at the other bit? It's created a situation wherein Gloranthan ducks have tended to be defined more by what they're not, than what they are. I like ambiguity. I'm OK with stuff not being explained. But this case has always struck me as being a bit off-balance in the degree to which definition and ambiguity have been applied over the years. So I suppose what I tend to do is: (a) dial back on the flight-myth stuff, perhaps pushing it back into RQ2 (rulebook) territory; and (b) big-up the Water connection a bit more.
  3. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    Ah, yes, I suspected it might be that one! I'm not 100% sold on it, truth be told. The 'Umath' rune had also been used for a few more general strength-related associations over the years – not quite as dissociatedly as the 'Lodril' rune being used for Vinga and Elmal, for example, but on similar terms. Some of those runes got around a bit! (Partly, no doubt, on account of considering their semiotics differently at different times.) I'm aware of Quack Keep, though haven't picked it up yet. I might keep it that way for a bit, just to let me develop my own stuff more naturally, without fear of comparison!
  4. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    Quite possibly, yes! (I tend to alternate between the lighter-hearted and more po-faced stuff. I find I have to dial back on the quirkier stuff when I'm writing many thousands of words, for fear of overload...) I thought I'd played the runes pretty straight in this scheme – which ones do you think are funny? The perils of being an early modern historian! 😃 Duck names have always been a strange thing—different authors and supplements have often adopted jarringly different approaches—but I've ultimately focused on adhering to the slightly whimsical approach Greg (and Charlie, I suspect) adopted in his campaign, with Joseph Greenface, Alexander Yellowbelly, Newcastle Bluebill and the like. The ducks of Dragon Pass have been accounted as more or less Orlanthi in culture since Borderlands. (The RQG Bestiary takes this to a new level with the Air rune comment.) They're not an Earth tribe in that sense, but will have a fair few queens. (For what it's worth, I've never been entirely happy with how official and unofficial Glorantha alike have portrayed ducks' relationship with the Water rune. In my Glorantha there's something approaching a three-way split between Air, Earth and Water in ducks.) There is passing mention of a pre-revolt king in 1613 (in the Sartar High Council freeform), but Barbarian Adventures introduced 'Skalfara Wild-Wheat' into the c. 1620 Hero Wars/HeroQuest timeline... and she was promptly never mentioned again. I get the suspicion that she was a Robin addition, though I could be wrong. I've kept her for my RQG timeline because official publications have been a bit naff with female ducks over the years.
  5. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    Ha, yes! My current focus on Duck Point started as I was developing the Duck Tribe's ring in a fashion a little similar to the Sartar High Council freeform. As well as a variety of fixed agendas, I also sketched out variable agendas that could be assigned randomly (or not) to the participants. One of those was to finish the job and try and form the tribal confederation. But I hadn't thought of it in quite this way – I shall have to go back and have a tinker! 😃 (I'm still trying to make my mind up about how I'm going to handle the city wyter. I've a few ideas, but it's still in the threshing-out stage.) Incidentally, this is the current provisional make-up of my ring. A few old faces! (Some names are provisional. I tend to spend a lot of time on names, to get them just so. I'm still not sure on some of them.)
  6. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    On the mean, muddy streets of Duck Point...
  7. Quackatoa

    Pilgrimage 2018-2019

    A Facebook friend is posting near-daily updates on his current pilgrimage (from Belgium). It's fascinating to follow. Bon voyage!
  8. Quackatoa

    Google+ Going Away

    Well, shit. I have to say, Google+ has been my favourite expression of Glorantha on social media over the years. Visual, colourful, immediate, lightly structured, yet responsive. Look; smile; move on. Perfect for how I like consume stuff. Facebook is, I suppose, similar in some aspects, but clunkier in others. Ho hum!
  9. Quackatoa

    Who's the Orlanthi deity of...

    "ASSOCIATED CULTS: Orlanth Thunderous: Provides Increase Wind."
  10. Quackatoa

    Who's the Orlanthi deity of...

    ... cabbages? This is serious, guys. It's all grains with these people. Grains, grains, grains. And cows. Brassicists. Who do I sacrifice to my cabbages Whom do I sacrifice to for the sake of my cabbages? Have we got to do strange elf magic? It's Flamal, isn't it? Weirdo. If I remember correctly, he had a Divine spell that let you turn into a sprout, so it seems appropriate.
  11. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    (Is there a sord/sorn mix-up here, or German-language thing I'm missing? ) The parrot-people of Forng? Greg doesn't think so.
  12. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    I'm sure, yes! I definitely name criminal gangs after terms of venery. Especially keets. (TERROR OF THE KEET TONGS!) I also like 'sord', which means you can do sword/sord puns. (Which sadly backfire when everyone tells you you've misspelled 'sword-sage'...)
  13. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    These days, I find I focus almost solely on characters, who are conveniently idiosyncratic and unreliable narrators on a subject that, I think, benefits from a considerable degree of ambiguity. (I always think I fail, though, and go too far!) So I'm currently writing up the in-my-Glorantha personages of the Duck Point ring* for 1625. I have to do a picture, though—always have to do a picture—so heaven knows when it'll be done. (It won't be of the members of the ring. I'm not that co-ordinated.) For clans, I use the list of potential duck clans seen in King of Dragon Pass (Rune Ducks, Thunder Ducks, Old Ducks, Spire Ducks, Beaker Ducks, Cabbage Ducks, Slapfoot Ducks, Marsh Ducks), with one or two of my own added. That accords fairly well with the population figure. Sure, the clan names date from the Resettlement Era, and most of you buggers probably killed them on your playthroughs. But I'm lazy and I'm happy with it! Martin et al. also followed that line in Tales of the Reaching Moon #19. *Yes, I know Duck Point doesn't have a city ring in the sense of a ritual-political basis for a tribal confederation. The ducks do have a ring, though, which likely meets in Duck Point.
  14. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    Tarkalor built the road for distinctly human benefit, not ducks'. (And it has quite the benefit.) (Ducks got along just fine along The Stream! I rather think a lot of duck banditry is, jokingly, down to Tarkalor's road putting a lot of those ducks who worked The Stream out of business. After all, you need a highway for there to be dandy highwayducks...)
  15. Quackatoa

    FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

    Some afternoon Duck Lore. 'Cos who doesn't like afternoon Duck Lore? Duck Point & Stone Nest: A Tale of One Two Cities I've been scribbling and sketching some silliness about Duck Point, recently, and therefore came up against the amusingly weird farrago—or is that anti-farrago?—that is the relationship between the duck settlements of Duck Point and Stone Nest. I did some investigations into this half-a-dozen years ago, and thought I'd reprise that info on the two cities here. Because, of course, they're supposed to be the same place... Maps, Part Urrrghhhhn Many of us know the story about how Duck Point came to be in Glorantha. Greg, when making the maps for White Bear and Red Moon (1975), named several settlements after friends and contributors to his past and present endeavours, notably the fanzine Wyrd. One friend, Brian Crist, asked that Greg named 'his' settlement 'Duckburg'. Greg, conscious of Disney's litigiousness, demurred, and instead settled on the name of 'Duck Point'. Duck Point would be a feature of maps of Dragon Pass for decades to come – albeit not always, as we'll come to see, in the same place... 'Stone Nest' is first mentioned in the 'Sartar High Council' freeform write-up in Wyrms Footnotes #7 (1979), which is reprinted in Wyrms Footprints (1995), pp. 96–103. Specifically, it is mentioned in the private knowledge known only to Joseph Greenface, the duck shaman and spokesbeak. Joseph knows that the ducks keep "... a third of their warriors on alert and mustered at Stone Nest... unknown [he thinks] to the Empire, who do not occupy that little city." There is no mention of Duck Point in Joseph's information. There is no mention of Stone Nest—only Duck Point—elsewhere in the write-up. Stone Nest does not appear on any published maps of that period and receives no further mention until the 1990s. In Tales of the Reaching Moon #5 (1991), Jon Quaife's map (p. 3) showed the greatest detail on the area hitherto published. Jon's map is based on Greg's own master map of Dragon Pass, which Jeff kindly posted here. Similar details appear on Phil Anderson's map on pp. 34–35 of Tales of the Reaching Moon #19 (2000), which is reprinted in Wyrms Footnotes #15 (2012), pp. 16–17. On these maps, there are clearly two separate localities: one, marked 'Duck Point', sits at the confluence of The Stream and the combined Creek-Stream River; the other, marked 'Stone Nest Ruins', lies around ten miles inland. That's pretty clear, right? Not quite. All roads lead to... well, it depends On the Jon/Phil/Greg map—which, as the most detailed version, is the basis for subsequent maps such as Wesley Quadros' insert from Dragon Pass: Land of Thunder (2003)—'Stone Nest Ruins' sit at the terminus of the Wilmskirk road. There is no road, way or path marked between Stone Nest Ruins and Duck Point. (N.B. There is a trail on Wesley's map, for reasons we'll come to in a minute.) Yet on William Church's original Dragon Pass and RuneQuest (1978; 1980, p. 108) maps, it is Duck Point that clearly lies at the terminus of the Wilmskirk road. King of Sartar (1992), which doesn't mention Stone Nest, speaks of Tarkalor building a road between Wilmskirk and Duck Point (a 'river port'; also 'Duckton'; pp. 44, 139). Subsequent publications follow this line in word and cartography, notably Barbarian Adventures (2001; p. 5), Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes (2009; p. 248) and The Guide to Glorantha, vol. I (2014; p. 188). So why, on multiple maps, does the clearly attested Duck Point road—and the point of a 'Wilmskirk–Duck Point road' is that it generally goes from Wilmskirk to Duck Point...—not actually reach its destination? Maps, Part Deux The answer likely lies on another map of Greg's, which is printed in History of the Heortling Peoples (2007), p. 12. (You may need a magnifying glass.) On this map, there are two familiar settlements. The one at the confluence of The Stream and the Creek-Stream River is labelled 'Duck Point'. The settlement ten miles inland is labelled both 'Duck Point' and 'Stone Nest'. The Wilmskirk road goes to this latter settlement. (Actually, it doesn't. It stops a few miles short, for some reason, and a trail continues the way. This is copied by Wesley.) And therein lies the crux. Greg would sometimes place Duck Point in different places on different maps. William Church's RuneQuest map is itself indistinct, while the maps of Thunder Rebels (2000; p. 51), Barbarian Adventures (p. 5) and, most notably, Yurek Chodak's map from 'Dragons Past 1' in Different Worlds #28 (1983) [reprinted in Wyrms Footnotes #15, p. 51] all show Duck Point inland, in the same position taken by Stone Nest. Greg Sez... Looking at all this, I wondered if there'd been a mixup. The mention of Stone Nest in Wyrms Footnotes—from a duck's perspective—seemed a fitting choice for the duck endonym for a small duck settlement ringed in walls of stone, which the humans and other outsiders called Duck Point. The map in History of the Heortling Peoples seemed to support that, as did the multiple contradictions over the terminus of the Wilmskirk road; that confusion over the placement of a single settlement somehow resolved into a state where there were two settlements in two separate places. So I asked Greg. His answer (repeated twice, for emphasis)? They're supposed to be the same place. "One [Duck Point] is the human name, the other [Stone Nest] is the duck name." I'm not sure exactly how, or when, the idea of Duck Point and Stone Nest becoming separated became standardised. But in my Glorantha I like to put them back together again. (And, yes, it's supposed to be at the confluence of The Stream and the Creek-Stream River.)
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