boztakang

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

That would be news to the uz worshipping the same entity for its hunger for just about everything - meat, vegetables, minerals, air, water, ...

The last thing Uz need is MORE hunger... an entity like the Black Eater would be worshipped propitiatorily, if at all. Unless, of course, you are using the term as a title for Kyger Litor, in which case they all worship her, but certainly not for her hunger specifically. 

I also suspect that the Black Eater's influence amongst the Morokanth has been rather exaggerated in certain sources. It might be useful for those who want to eat flesh on occasion, but does not seem to me to be likely as a major overall cultural influence - that is Waha's job. The rune affinities of the various praxian tribes are very much secondary to their identity with Waha and Eritha, and IMG at least that holds for the Morokanth as well. 

In general, while darkness is useful to the Morokanth in many ways - to mask their unusual appearance, to help them consume flesh when ritually necessary, and for the stealth to compensate for their lack of mobility as compared to the other tribes - it does not define their culture to the extent sometimes put forward. They are still praxian nomads, first and foremost, strange as they may seem at first. 

[ and on review of the OP - chaos fighting, of course...]

I am also tempted by the idea that Morokanth believe that the covenent requires them to be "fed by" their herds, and that the other tribes are simply being ignorant, barbaric and bloody-minded by taking that to mean you should eat the animals themselves. IMO, the image of the decadent Morokanth lazing about, being hand-fed by her trained herdmen, is far better than a bit of long pig on the BBQ any day. Obviously, eating off the ground is a huge taboo amongst them, and a proper Morokanth would rather starve than graze themselves.

You could very much use Call of Cthulhu rules for a game like this... in fact, it might be an ideal rules system for such a game. Lunar Investigators trying to deal/treat with Ralz without going insane and embracing chaos themselves. 

You would want to introduce an Illumination mechanic - possibly as a pool of "false SAN" that Investigators could use to overcome/mask their ever-increasing chaos taints.

3 hours ago, Pentallion said:

A question from one of my players:  Can a Praxian who worships Waha also be a Trickster?  She's thinking of having a Morokanth trickster.  Her argument is that the Trickster is how they cheated the humans.

It is worth noting that the Morokanth (culturally) do not believe that they cheated. 

Her beliefs are an entirely appropriate thing for a Trickster to believe, of course, but they will not endear her to her tribe-mates :-)

On 1/30/2017 at 0:52 AM, Yelm's Light said:

Two webbed feet up!

this being a critical component of the secret ritual for creating new ducks...

2 hours ago, TRose said:

Or maybe some men would have sex with a Trollkin girl cause she dirt cheap at only a copper?

so long as the John remembers that Trollkin are pretty much unable to not eat anything put in or near their mouths, it might work.

though it would take a pretty desperate/perverted man to find even the most comely enlo attractive... they are by their very nature immature in all the least enticing ways - screechy, easily startled or distracted, painfully stupid, and significantly deformed. A copper would be asking quite a lot... 

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

And the trolls that the Lightbringers are apparently feeding Flesh Man to... alive or dead?  And if dead, then why do they need to eat?

They were alive, but then Yelm came, and killed them all. The few that were not killed had to flee to the surface world, or be Dead.

The Underworld is not Wonderhome any more. It is a sad, dreary place full of dead things. Dead trolls especially. Fortunately for the trolls that are alive in the middle world, they know how to escape death when it comes for them, because that's how they got to the middle world in the first place.

The Dead eat because they are hungry, just like the living... unfortunately, Death makes everything taste all ashy and smell like iron, and nothing you eat while dead will truly fill you up. You either have to eat constantly and be miserable, or starve and be miserable. That is why life, as painful and terrible as it is, is preferable to death.

Now eat this good food that uncle Og brought us, or I'll let auntie screams-and-howls possess you again, and she'll finish it for you.

10 hours ago, g33k said:

.... and .... review ???  

 

It is fun. Though my mighty llama-riders did get thoroughly schooled by the dirty pygmy impalas. grrr!

Super easy to pick up and learn. Has a nice balance of luck and strategy for a casual game, and manages to be competitive without feeling cutthroat. The art matches the gameplay really well - lighthearted and fun, with a very gloranthan weirdness to it. 

Printed, and played!

43 minutes ago, Darius West said:

So, as a quick question on this point.  Did Humakt kill Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, Chalana Arroy, Eurmal and Flesh Man too ? How did they all wind up dead?  Seems pretty dishonorable to kill poor CA.   I thought Humakt liked her?

Flesh man in particular is of interest I should think...  Being a man of flesh in the underworld is a really interesting point if you think about it.   After all, if he is flesh and dead in the underworld; isn't he a zombie if he keeps walking around ?  Or perhaps he is still alive?

In the sense that he "is" death, of course he did. They died passing through the Gates of Dusk. Once those clanged shut behind them, they were cut off from the middle world and unable to act there. The only way they were coming back was to successfully complete their quest. 

Being a man of flesh in the underworld makes you troll-bait, not a zombie. Even Dead trolls need to eat. It would have been very rude of the Lightbringers to head off to such a dark place without something to feed to the trolls.

I fear that you are beating an underworld horse here...

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

ORLY?  

yarly. HQGlorantha has the following in the Humakt cult writeup.

Quote

Humakt enforced his own Truth that was stronger, and so killed Orlanth too. But Humakt showed the secret of his honor and justice and let his brother arise again through the Lightbringers’ Quest. 

so, at least from Humakt's point of view, Orlanth was quite thoroughly and unambiguously Dead. His only out being the LBQ and resurrection of the world.

Quote

For your next trick, explain to me how Humakti hero questers who go to the underworld and are therefore "dead" don't break their cult precepts regarding coming back to life by returning from being "dead" in the underworld at the completion of their hero quest.

There are several ways to accomplish this. If you are doing "Humakt discovers Death" then you are home free because by the end of that quest, only one person in the whole world will have died, and it is usually not the Questor. That is the only myth I am immediately aware of that has Humakt directly traveling to the underworld, and in that case he clearly isn't dead because death doesn't exist until he "finds" it.

Another common way for Humakti to participate in underworld heroquests is as another god (usually Orlanth)'s equipment. If I'm traveling as Orlanth's Sword, then I am clearly not a living thing, and am simply along for the ride. Cult authorities are hardly going to ding you for embodying a sword, even if you  are technically not alive while doing so.

You will also note that an awful lot of Humakti HeroQuesters end up illuminated. Arkat being the prime example. "I was dead, but now I'm not, but I never resurrected" makes a mighty fine Nysalor riddle, after all.

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

The primary contradiction is this...

There is a MAJOR difference between (a) entity who is killed by another entity and sent to the underworld, and (b) one who goes there as part of a hero quest, entering the underworld while still alive.  (a) is involuntary, (b) is voluntary.  If (a) happens you are stuck unless someone does (b) to get you out.  Of course things can go wrong during (b) and they might become actually dead and therefore unable to return, but they are NOT otherwise actually dead...

For how can you be dead if you are not separate from your body?  

(a) Yelm was killed by Orlanth and went to the Underworld. He showed up in the underworld with his body, and enough of a retinue (who also had bodies) to slaughter the trolls at the battle of Hanroo Field. Leaving a body in the middle world seems to be a Time thing, or perhaps only applies to mortals.

(b) Orlanth followed Yelm into the underworld, compelled either by his own remorse or Yelm's call. How voluntary this was is not at all clear.

The upshot is, that at the climax of the Myth, everyone is Dead, and the world has to be fundamentally re-made to let them live again. Once Orlanth entered the Gates of Dusk, he could Not leave again without making peace with Yelm. He was Dead.

 

To my mind, one of the foundational mathematical properties of Glorantha is the deep fractal symmetry of its being a world defined entirely by the stories that are told about it. From the ceremonial reenactment of the Myths each sacred time, to the experimental discovery of its denizens and quirks around a gaming table, at every level, it exists because someone, somewhere, has a tale to tell.

I honestly don't have a whole lot of new insight on the Blue Moon plateau. 

The trolls there are extremely secretive, and strong in Illusion, so you could certainly put just about anything there that you wanted to.

Here's what the new HQ trollpack has to say on the region:

Quote

Long ago, in an age forgotten or never known by all but the most ancient of Uzuz, an enormous goddess or monster fell from the sky, leaving behind a massive corpse of stone and earth glowing with a light that no living creature can see. This region is called the Blue Moon Plateau, and is shunned by humans and other mortals who find its energies incompatible with health and sanity.

Trolls, however are more resilient than other races, and late in the Gods War, certain elements of Boztakang’s army settled there. When some of those early settlers became ill, Boztakang befriended, tricked, or took as a lover (depending on the teller) the mysterious entity or power behind the blue moon (or its corpse.) In doing so, he learned secrets that allow trolls to safely live in this land without ill effect. He taught those secrets to many of his followers, who have guarded them jealously ever since, operating behind a veil of illusion and mystery, well protected from outside forces, hostile or benign.

The natural protection of their home, in conjunction with obsessive secrecy and isolationism bordering on xenophobia has kept the trolls here safe from all the various disasters that have decimated the populations of other troll areas. No outsider has any real idea how many trolls actually live here, but everyone agrees that it must be far and away the largest “civilized” troll habitation left in the middle world.

The rise of the Lunar Empire has encouraged or enabled the blue moon trolls to take a much more active role in the outside world (or, possibly, just exposed their activities to a larger audience.) From the earliest days of the empire, rumors of trollish collaboration have been as persistent as they are unprovable. Though never officially acknowledged, Blue Moon cultists are “known” to have served the Empire as assassins, spies, messengers, magicians and mercenaries on many occasions. Such rumors have become less common since the Eldest Kin of Dagori Inkarth’s declaration of war on the red moon, but most everyone believes that the blue moon cultists have simply become more careful and secretive in their support. 

21 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

I'm not certain that it represents what 'modern' Dara Happans believe it to represent. it seems to be an ancient pre-Time Solar Empire artifact, but there's a massive disconnect between that era and history in Time. This is why all the text associated with the Wall is in-Time speculation, and often contradictory speculation.

In that sense, we agree totally. The whole "underworld" portion of the God's Wall is going to be quite speculative, and at the very best is going to depict a small and "shallow" view of the Underworld and it's denizens. I am reasonably confident that the figure on the God's Wall is based on "a_random_uzuz_006" but that doesn't necessarily make it not also a reasonable representation for Kyger Litor

21 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

If the Gods War miniature is valid, then Kyger Litor looks nothing like the Mistress Race troll depicted on the Gods Wall.

What Kyger Litor "looks like" will depend strongly on who is looking, and the context. Uz will always see her as an unbearably powerful and attractive uzuz with an uncanny resemblance to their own Mother. Which in no way makes her representation in God's War invalid. Obviously, given that she pre-dates the Man Rune, she cannot always have been even as humanoid as she is depicted in the game. In her earliest incarnation, she may have been little more than an amorphous sense of immeasurable, selfish Hunger.

On June 23, 2016 at 6:29 AM, M Helsdon said:

Perhaps, but the presence of what is obviously Kyger Litor, or as least a Mistress Race troll, undermines this as in the Golden Age the trolls should have been happily at peace in Wonderhome. Just as they were ignorant of the Sun, the Sun should have been ignorant of them. This suggests to me that the Gods Wall is in some way 'anachronistic' in that it doesn't just represent a 'status quo' but 'future' deities as well.

Certainly all the sensible trolls were basking in the dark glory of Kyger Litor safe in Wonderhome, but even in the Golden Age certain Uz would explore or raid the surface world. Vaneekara, Zong, Gore and Gash, and probably Boztakang all visited the surface many times before the great exodus. After all, without ANY shadows, how could the true brilliance of Yelm be properly appreciated?

I'm not sure that "KL" on the god's wall should be construed as anachronistic...

Do we actually know that Broo herd goats? (don't recall reading that before, but my memory is terrible)

I always thought that their predilection for goats was due to goats not having herders, and being generally more available/less protected. Also, I do not think broo Need to mate with goats to maintain their common form - they are (as) naturally goat-like (as a thing of chaos can be), and usually produce goat-broo from whichever host they violate. They might also find goats especially attractive, on the "looks like me" principal.

An especially powerful, clever, and sadistic broo-chief might force his underlings to "herd" (without raping) as a sort of extended and subtle (for broo) torture - with not-so-subtle torture for the inevitable lapses. But that feels to me like an oddity, and not the norm.

A broo leader's most important job is to keep enough victims handy that his pack does not start to look inward for satisfaction. In general all the members of a particular gang will tend to be of similar strength, as each member has to be able to physically or magically able to deter any other member from trying anything.

On June 14, 2016 at 10:02 AM, TRose said:

Remember Trolls worship Aldrya . She is  a great food God.

While there is always some clan of miscreants somewhere doing just about any old silly thing, I doubt this is common.

Though trolls benefit greatly from Aldraya worship, I don't see them participating except as antagonists. She IS an important food goddess, but certainly not friendly or allied. 

The Herdmen do all the hard, annoying and time-consuming work of finding and gathering the veggies. Thus, the Morokanth don't have to graze at all - just gorge themselves on the relatively high-quality food delivered by their "beasts." 

A Vegan Morokanth would certainly have to spend more time eating than a normal human, but still not nearly so much as a Troll would, and trolls are still quite functional despite their constant snacking. 

Perhaps the Morokanth "Chariot" has its origin in a Hay Wain type contraption, incidentally adapted so a rider can hop on and snack while traveling long distances.

Just because the Morokanth "race" chariots, doesn't mean they actually have to go fast... 

Sure, short "sprints" might move at a reasonable speed, but the Main Event must be endurance. The pure entertainment value of a ritual 10k race/festival being played out over several days like a Cricket Test means I'll almost certainly shoehorn one into my Glorantha eventually.

In fact, it has just become obvious to me that during the annual "Tour de Prax" race/migration the leader for each day wears a special Golden Shawl to indicate their status. Recent events have been increasingly marred by accusations of unscrupulous racers using non-traditional performance enhancing magic...

[edit: oops! missed a few posts - this is in reference to the raiding part of the thread]

Morokanth will use terrain, and the cover of darkness. The wastes are rugged, with plenty of cover in places for the morokanth to sneak, strike, and fade into the night. Doesn't matter how fast your victim is if they have no idea where you came from or which way you went. I imagine that their herd-men are at least clever enough to be trained to build blinds, dig pits, and set spikes, so galloping off after those darn sneaky tapirs could be a very very bad idea... They won't be much use raiding in the wide open spaces, but in rough or broken landscapes they will have a major advantage.
Morokanth are also plenty big and strong on their own, I don't think they would value big strong herdmen nearly so much as small, sneaky ones that were trainable and good with their hands. 

Unfortunately, the Ref may be the only participant you don't get to directly play... He kinda does his own thing, as Giants are wont to do. (Though you do get to roll the dice for him when he's stomping an opponent, which can be quite satisfying)

However, you Do have influence over just about everyone else involved. You can throw stones at the other team as the Crowd, help the poor Ball try to escape, tell the kindly Priestess which wounded player needs healing first, and, of course, hurl abuse or encouragement at the Referee to attempt to get him to notice the dirty cheaters on the other team, and overlook any brave heroes forced to toe the line of legality on your own.

All while directing your Team to bash, block, and run their way to glorious victory, or bloody disgrace!

Trollpack will provide some additional details about the disease carrying sort...

While it is true that applying Myths to the real world in a This World quest can be dangerous, it is usually beneficial, if you do it correctly.

In the troll example, if it works to plan, your friend playing the "troll" part boosts your Orlanth magic a bit, and makes the rest of the "quest" a bit more likely to match the intended myth, with very minimal risk. In general, that will be the "most likely" outcome. Now, if you are "lucky" or have enough magical power invested in your quest, it may be that while your "troll" friend is waiting for you to show up, a real Karrg Son, glowing with Hero Umbra, arrives at the appointed location at just the right moment. This may be a very good thing - if he happens to be doing the "same" quest (or a similar stage in a different troll quest) then the outcome will still be predictable, and hugely beneficial to both parties, strengthening both quests, and drawing additional magic into them. On the other hand, if the Troll happens to be at the climax of his own "Uz barsh puny Air Gods" quest, the outcome could be very bad indeed. In game terms, the Troll then will have pulled our unfortunate orlanthi into His this world quest, rather than the other way around. This could be a "heroquest surprise" or just plain bad luck for the Heroes.

I don't think that Heroquests "choose" opponents for you, so much as Glorantha tends to arrange itself so that events in Time match their Mythological "templates" as closely as possible. A this world HQ is just an attempt to make sure that the "right myth" (the one with the greatest benefit to you) is pre-eminent in a given situation. There are surprises and complications, of course, because mortals cannot hope to fully understand the full implications of True Myth. The Myth may not be quite what the Players thought, or other Myths might be stronger or take precedent in that particular situation.

From a practical in-game point of view, MGF should determine how many, or how serious, the complications are when attempting to apply a particular Myth to whatever the PCs seem to think it might fit. If the myth is interesting and "feels right" then it should probably work reasonably well. If the fit stretches credulity, or the PCs try to over-use a myth they had success with before, it is time to throw in some uglier complications, or unexpected consequences.

Don't forget that Myths ARE the fundamental reality of Glorantha. Sure, Time has watered them down and mixed them up, but any time a Man steals something from Darkness, it really is an echo of the Sandals of Darkness to one degree or another. Either that, or it is an echo of "Kyger Litor's Food Song" which doesn't go so well for the "raider" but is much much more delicious.

Uzko approach sunlight the way most humans would approach a cold, heavy rain. It is unpleasant, but not really damaging. In fact, they will dress for sun much the same way humans dress for rain - big hats, heavy coats, and trying to get under cover whenever possible.

Male trolls may make a point of going out in the sunlight under-dressed to show how tough they are, but most will avoid it whenever possible. Uz are prone to sunburn and heatstroke, and have a lower basic comfort temperature than humans, so a moderately warm day by human standards is downright Hot for trolls. 

The sun is also a primary and terrible mythic enemy of the uz, and they Hate it. Its touch feels creepy and wrong. Many Uz will have clan or personal taboos about sunlight, which could require avoiding it entirely, or always facing the sunset to hurl abuse at the fleeing enemy, or even seeking it out and maintaining a constant sunburn to remind themselves of the sun's evil.
 

I see no reason to not simply run with letting him play Groot. If he's young, and wants to keep things literal, give him a weapon-obsessesed ex-human outlaw who's "banishment" involved having his soul bound into a raccoon as a sidekick, and let the pair loose on duck point, or some other suitably unsuspecting place. If the adventures continue long enough that some sort of backstory explaining a renegade aldryami gardener with a three-word vocabulary becomes necessary, than you have probably already won :-) 

You could probably get through a pretty fair chunk of adventuring without ever needing more backstory than "I am Groot." It's not like an actual aldryami's explanation of rootlessness would make much more sense to a human than that... even assuming they'd be willing to try to explain. 

If you want a less literal interpretation, just abstract the Aldryami background as an ability like "Weird Forest Powers" and work out what those are as you go. The real beauty of HQ, imo is that you can sit down with a character sheet like:

3W - I am Groot

17 - Violent Raccoon sidekick

13 - bronze leaf-shaped battle axe

flaw - "only able to vocalize the words: I, Am, and Groot"

and start adventuring - filling in details as they are discovered.