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Jeff

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Posts posted by Jeff

  1. 13 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

    RQG p.284: pretty much by definition, Major Temples exist at the Tribal level. Great Temples in the confederated cities of Sartar, but they’re more likely to be buildings - tribes, esp. out in the boonies, will use sacred hills w/o so much infrastructure IMG. (That is, the “Temple” is the sacred place at which the tribe assembles with all its ritual clobber). My short thematic article on top-down Lunar suppression of Orlanthi worship kinda relates, qv.

    Correct, in Sartar, each tribe has a Major temple to Orlanth. The cities with Great Temples are Boldhome, Jonstown, Swenstown, Wilmskirk, Alone and Alda-Chur (currently suppressed). There are also several sacred hills with Great Temples - Hill of Orlanth Victorious and Orlanth's Hill - also serve as great temples. Sacred Top is part of the great temple associated with Boldhome and the Sartar dynasty. 

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  2. 2 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

    How do the pirates maintain worship to Orlanth, Humakt and other gods? Do they carry small shrines on their ships? Have they stablished temples on the Three Steps Islands? Do they plunder and desecrate any temples on the coasts they raid? Are the ship spirits they worship like wyters?

    I'm interested because I'm playing a pirate in RQ. In a Pamaltelan campaign, but even so. 😋

    They carry shrines, initiates of several ships flock to priest to perform rites. They have temples on Three Steps Islands as well. The rarely sack co-religionists temples, but that is easy enough to avoid doing. 

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  3. 2 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

    Ooooh! 

    So, fun fact, back when I was doing some minor fan writing about Ygg for my own edification, I considered making Ygg a direct son of Vadrus instead of a grandson by way of Valind (as other sources I've seen say), and I upgraded his marriage from a local sea nymph or something (I forget her name) to Neliomi itself (who I called Nela locally, but that's beside the point). My rationale was basically that Ygg would be a more prestigious and central deity from the perspective of his worshippers as opposed to the more remote and minor role he plays in Theyalan Orlanthi mythology.

    So cool to see this also happen from Chaosium! Neat! 

    (Now to finish that fanfic of how Ygg raided the Underworld and stole back the Sun...)

    I doubt the Theyalans knew him as anything other than "another Vadrudi" until the Wolf Pirates came on to the scene. Given that Orlanth is now the biggest cult among the Wolf Pirates, Ygg is clearly an important nephew of the Storm King. 

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  4. Some notes people mind find interesting:

    WOLF PIRATES

    OVERVIEW

    In 1621 there are some 60+ Wolf Pirate ships, before Harrek's circumnavigation. Let's say that losses get replaced and by 1625, we have 60+ ships operating in the Choralinthor Bay, which comes out to about 3100+ Wolf Pirates. 

    The average Wolf Pirate ship has on average 50 warrior-rowers, 1 captain, and 5 officers. Each ship has a small Dormal shrine and a protective spirit housed in the figurehead on the prow.

    <For comparison purposes, this is comparable to the total number of pirates in the Caribbean during the Golden Age of Piracy and comparable to most of the Viking fleets that operated around the North Sea.>

    Although they started in the Yggs Islands, by 1625 the Wolf Pirates are multi-ethnic, as soldiers, refugees, outlaws, and adventurers have joined Harrek's fleet. Yggs Islanders now form a relatively small minority of the Wolf Pirates. 

    The lingua franca among the Wolf Pirates is a Theyalan creole made out of a simplified Ygg Islander with strong influences from Rathori and Jonating, Many Wolf Pirates also use Tradetalk. 

    WOLF PIRATES NATIONAL ORIGIN 

    No.  Origin             %

    620 Yggs Islands 20%

    620 other Fronelans 20%

    155 Malkioni heretics 5%

    310 Maniria 10%

    310 Sartar 10%

    310 Holy Country 10%

    155 Teshnites 5%

    310 Fonrit 10%

    310 Other 10%

    SOCIETY

    The basic unit of social organization for the Wolf Pirates is the ship crew. Joining a ship's crew is an initiation into that community - the crew worships the spirit of their ship. Every crew elects its own captain and officers. Every Wolf Pirate is entitled to an equal vote when choosing their captain and officers; but once chosen, the captain and officers must be obeyed unless replaced or personally challenged. Every crew member gets an equal share of any plunder, except that the officers get two shares, and the captain three.

    The Wolf Pirates welcome anyone into their society who is willing to live by their rules. Captives are offered this opportunity if they have the skills, and many folk seek them out when they are in a neutral port, or even raiding the mainland. Others take ship or boat and sail to Three-Step to join. 

    Despite this, Harrek the Berserk is the unquestioned Sea-King. Although all have the right to challenge his decision, none dare contradict the savage demi-god. 

    WARFARE

    The Wolf Pirates do most of their fighting on land. In sea battles, they try to board enemy ships and use their superior numbers of warriors to overwhelm their victims. On land, the Wolf Pirates use a variety of arms and armor. Wealthy pirates often wear corselets of bronze and linen, or just out of boiled leather. They are famed for their horned or feathered helmets. They use javelins as distance weapons, and engage with sword and shield.

    RELIGION

    The most important cults of the Wolf Pirates is Orlanth (more than a third of all Wolf Pirates are initiates of Orlanth) and Ygg (about 20% of all Wolf Pirates are initiates of Ygg). The next most important cults are Dorma (more than 10% of all Wolf Pirates are initiates of the Sailing God) and Humakt (nearly 10% worship the God of War). Gods of lesser importance include Valind, various Sea Gods, Hrestol, Arkat, the Two Brothers, Abdamedric, and Tolat.

    YGG

    The North Wind

    Ygg is a rapacius son of Vadrus, and brother of Valind. He is one of the Vadruding, the terrible sons of Vadrus. He raged across the land and water, bringing death and destruction in his wake. Ygg took many hostages from the sea gods until Neliomi submitted to him. Ygg plundered and pillaged the Western Lands and aided his brother the Winter God in his attempts to conquer the world.

    Rune Spells: Increase Wind, Shield, and Sleet, and Wind Warp. He can command up to Medium Air Elementals. 

    Ygg has a subcult (Wavebeater) that can summon and command enslaved Small and Medium Water Elementals.

    Ygg is served by Rune Priests and is associated with Orlanth and Valind.

    HISTORY

    The Wolf Pirates originate on Yggs Islands, a small chain of forested islands off the northern coast of Fronela. They were visited by Dormal  in 1583, and the Islanders returned to the seas. The Yggs Islanders fought a long war with the Kingdom of Loksalm. 

    About two dozen Wolf Pirate ships left Yggs Islands in 1598, and defeated the Loksalmi fleet. For a dozen years, these pirates plagued the West. Many settled on the island of Ginorth, in Old Seshnela.

    In 1607, Gunda the Guilty, a Jonating warrior-woman became a Wolf Pirate ship captain, and within a few years, made herself one of the leading Wolf Pirate leaders.

    In 1610, the Wolf Pirates settle on Three Step Isles, barren islands south of Kethaela that had been abandoned since the Dawn. This has became the main base of the Wolf Pirates.

    In 1615, Harrek was chosen by the god Ygg to lead the Wolf Pirates and be their Sea-King. He led the Wolf Pirates  to raid the Genertela coast from Fronela to Prax, sailing as far abroad as Jrustela.

    In 1621 Harrek led his Wolf Pirates on a three-year voyage around the Homeward Ocean, raiding Teshnos, Teleos, Font, Umathela, Jrustela, and Seshnela, before returning to Kethaela in early 1624. Surprisingly, he allied with several Kethaelan leaders to fight the Lunar Empire at Pennel Ford. Later that year, he received his reward and plundered the magical City of Wonders.

    For the next several years, the Wolf Pirates raid Kethaela with impunity. The Kethaelans agree to follow Argrath of Sartar if the new Prince can get rid of Harrek and the Wolf Pirates. The Prince achieves this by allying with Harrek, and that year, half the Wolf Pirates follow Argrath over the Dragonspine into Tarsh. Although Harrek later quarrels with Argrath and leaves Dragon Pass altogether in 1631, many of the Wolf Pirates that followed Argrath into Dragon Pass remain.

    NOTES

    THREE-STEP ISLANDS

    A substantial island-bound population has settled on Three Step Islands now. These are wives, concubines, and families of the pirates, as well as refugees, merchants, shop-keepers, and fishermen who make the pirates lives bearable upon the isle. There are even a few farmers and a large number of sheep-herders.

    The only sizeable settlement is Skullport, which serves as the main port of operations for Harrek's fleet. Given that the Wolf Pirates themselves are transient, Skullport is normally populated largely by slaves capture by the Wolf Pirates, and by those foreign merchants (including Vadeli), shopkeepers, wine sellers, entertainers, and prostitutes who live of the pirate's plunder. It is estimated that there is at least one drinking house for every ten residents.

    LEADERS OF THE WOLF PIRATES

    Harrek is king of the Wolf Pirates. His authority is supreme and unquestioned. He is also a demigod, and doesn’t really care about administrative matters.

    Gunda is the military brains behind the Wolf Pirates. She leads the battles, as Harrek just kills. 

    Gold Gotti is the organizational brains behind the Wolf Pirates. He keeps the food and supplies flowing. He organizes the efficient plunder of everything.

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  5. 12 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    Yup, and I might walk away from it like I did RQG, and like we both did from MRQ. If it just me it wont matter much either. If other walk away too, then it might matter after all. 

    P.S. Nice to see you posting again, bug. 

    Atgxtg - at this point it might just be better if you just walk away again. RQG discussions have been less tedious without you there. And after looking at four pages of you ranting about the role of women during the Enchantment of Britain, I think Pendragon discussions would be better off without you.

    As an aside, this is not about being “woke” - it is about making a game we can play with our friends. And guess what, many of our friends we game with are women. And just as many men prefer to play male characters, many women prefer to play women characters. That’s not really hard to figure out. And few women that I know want every session to be a constant struggle against male NPCs trying to “put them in their place”. That gets real boring real fast.So go on your merry way. Go and play your WWII game where everyone can play good National Socialists (but no Jewish characters allowed) or whatever works for you. Just do it elsewhere.

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  6. As an aside, Greg's "Arthurian monomyth" allows us to experience and play through as much of the myth as we want. But to do that, it is not particularly historically grounded. Pendragon leaves our history with the Enchantment of Britain and enters a mythological and magical realm filled with plenty of ahistorical features such as plate armor. Or indeed chivalrous knights. Or even knights at all. None of this may have existed in history (and certainly not circa 520 AD) but it is all part of the myth.

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  7. The option exists for players to play a female knight if they so want and without getting constantly screwed over by the setting. Because there are lots of players who would rather play a female character. Just as there are lots of players who would rather play a male character. There is no reason to create barriers that prevent people from wanting to play in one of the greatest RPGs of all time.

    When we've had female knights, they have always been exceptional and noteworthy, but not so exceptional or noteworthy that playing them is a constant uphill battle. At the end of the day, Pendragon is a FUN role-playing game, that lets us explore the Arthurian Romances - one of the greatest collections of stories and archetypes of all time. And every assembler of the Romances made their own additions and twists to it, which is in part why these stories continue to have power and meaning even to us mythically illiterate moderns.

    In short, there should be no obstacle to making Pendragon something fun for you and your players. Take it, run with it, and make it yours.

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  8. It is actually pretty easy. Just base things on the building blocks of Glorantha Sourcebook, King of Sartar, RuneQuest, the Guide, etc. It only gets tough when you try to put the HW-era material in.

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  9. 26 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

    I think it's the old WF #10 article on the Gods of Light p.22: "Some of Pole Star's children were less stable or more adventursome than the other Star Captains, and they took upon themselves to wander throughout the world, both before and during the Darkness. Many of these demi-gods were slain, but one in particular, Lightfore, set a clear Heroquest path which later gods also followed."

    It's actually repeated pretty much verbatim in the Glorantha Sourcebook p.98.

    Better to go with the text from the Dayzatar section (GS p.97, also WF10): "Dayzatar was forced to leave his perch at least one time during his isolation. This was to rescue Lightfore, a favorite worshipper"

    I believe originally the association of Lightfore = Yelmalio was not explicit, so Lightfore represented the First Planet and leading Star Captain (hence "child" of Pole Star).  The subsequent integration of Lightfore with Yelmalio means that Lightfore is a part of Yelm (that part that still connects to the Sky Dome and the Light beyond).

    During the Darkness, there were stars that plunged down to protect the lesser beings of the world. Many greater gods, like Orlanth and Ernalda, had already disappeared from the dying world. And so the last lights of the world were all that left. This is pretty universal myth among humans and elves.

    Dayzatar is worshiped by gods. That's how awesome he is. 

    40 minutes ago, Minlister said:

    Yelmalio is Pole Star's son? Gods, I knew I was no grognard, but I realize now I am a Marie-Louise...

    @Jeff

    So when he swore allegiance to Orlanth (TBoHM, p. 76), he did not joined Orlanth's tribe? Same source p. 159 says "He was one of many warriors who joined the Storm Tribe, happy to have his actions prove his value rather than his blood or parentage".

    That is interesting to me in relation to the discussion in another thread about how you join another tribe as it could offer a mythic paradigm. So you swore allegiance to the king, join his tribe, but nonetheless you don't belong to this new tribe, being still defined as a member of your original tribe? Fire Tribe for Rigsdal

    There are certainly stories that Polestar swore loyalty to Orlanth. But I think that is merely a projection by Orlanth's mortal worshipers. Polestar is not associated with the Orlanth cult. When he has a wider cult, it tends to be associated with other Celestial deities.

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  10. 1 minute ago, Richard S. said:

    Isn't he the source of Kallyr's star brow though? Or at least the star gives her some connection to the pole star.

    Yes. Kallyr's great power comes from the Pole Star. Which is interesting, isn't it. That could have been a terrible weakness for her when she tried to perform the LBQ, don't you think? 

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  11. 20 minutes ago, Minlister said:

    @Jeff

    Isn't the Stasis, and even Light runes a bit strange for Rigsdal, a member of the Storm Tribe ? Or are Polaris/Pole Star and Rigsdal considered two different gods in the forthcoming GoG? No problem with that, just curiosity. Thanks

    Rigsdal is not a member of the Storm Tribe. 

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  12. The plateau Two Ridge sits atop is some 6 to 8 kilometres long. Think more Mesa Verde, Table Mountain, or the Nor-Westers. Western Sartar has a lot of mesa and butte geography, more like out of the American West or South Africa. The Ambas of Ethiopa might make better reference points.

    Two Ridge, Starfire Ridges, and the Pegasus Plateau are all part of a rugged landscape that would make Western Sartar a really amazing place to look at. With redwood groves in Tarndisi's Grove, and the high snow-covered peaks of the Quivin Mountains.

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  13. Polaris is an important cult in lowland Peloria and Pent. His runes are Light, Stasis, and Harmony. He is sometimes worshiped as a spirit in Prax and among the Orlanthi. 

    Despite the efforts of Kallyr's poets to concoct stories to the contrary, he's never managed to be incorporated as an associated cult of Orlanth. Orlanth usually dealt with Polaris as an enemy, and lacks even the tales of cooperation he has with Yelmalio.

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  14. On 6/21/2020 at 12:44 PM, DrGoth said:

    In Sartar, Kingdom of Heroes five rebellions are mentioned (p.271)

    For three of them dates are mentioned elsewhere in the book

    • Righteous Wind 1611, p. 364 (although interestingly GTG v1 puts this at 1610, p. 171)
    • Starbrow's rebellion 1613
    • Firebull Moot (which I assume is the rebellion of the Firebull Clan) 1615, p.230

    Two of them aren't further mentioned in SKoH

    • Season of Five Storms
    • Black Arrow Callings

    Those two are also not noted in GtG or Runequest, Roleplaying in Glorantha.  Do we know anything about them other than their names?

    Here's the canonical list of significant rebellions and other events:

    1602 – Boldhome is sacked by Lunar Empire, its temple profaned, and its people slaughtered. The last known heirs of Sartar are slain or driven away.

    1603 – Conflict between Telmori and other tribes.

    1605 – A major thrust by the Lunar army to invade the Holy Country, striking at heavily populated Esrolia. Countering with magical strength, the god-king Belintar stopped the Lunars by inflicting a decisive and humiliating defeat. At the same time, a minor thrust of the Lunar army reached the city of Karse and laid siege, but withdrew without permanent success. The Lunar victory was clear over the Hendriking defenders.

    1606 – Lunar assassins begin infiltrating south to kill the remaining members of the House of Sartar.

    1606-1611 – Civil conflict among Far Point tribes. This grows to become the Righteous Wind Rebellion.

    1606 – Amidst the widespread Sartar clan disputes and tribal wars following the Lunar conquest, the struggle against the Telmori stands out. The Telmori wiped out the whole Maboder tribe under their fangs.

    1607 – Jomes Wulf, a Lunar general, led a brilliant campaign, and tracked down the wolf-people in their own territory, using great personal heroism. The Telmori sued for peace but not before taking extreme losses. Pol-Joni defeated by Praxians.

    1610 – Pavis falls, as do the Prax barbarians as the Lunar Empire searches for a route to the sea. Provincial Government imposes repressive laws on Orlanthi.

    1611 – Righteous Wind Rebellion in Far Point crushed by Harvar Ironfist, Alone occupied.

    1613 – Kallyr Starbrow leads a Sartarite rebellion, quickly crushed by the Lunar Empire. Temertain the Pretender rules with Lunar support.

    1615 – Fire Bull Clan of the Sambarri rebel and are crushed by the Lunar Army.

    1618 – Dundealos tribe destroyed by Lunars.

    1619 – Lunar Empire invades the Holy Country, Karse seized.

    1620 – Malkonwal broken by Lunar Army.

    1621 – Whitewall falls, beginning the Great Winter.

    1622 – Culbrea tribe in open rebellion. Lunars defeated by Hendriki and Sartar rebels at the Battle of Auroch Hills. Great Winter ends.

    1624 – Lunar Empire defeated in Holy Country at the Battle of Pennel Ford by a coalition of Wolf Pirates, Esrolians, and Hendriki. Temertain the Pretender killed by Humakti led by Sarostip Cold-eye.

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  15. 9 minutes ago, Minlister said:

    Sorry, my English is missing a nuance here. The "getting" is linked to "it" or to "the map in TCS"? Without comma after TCS I would go for the second solution but punctuation rule differ in French and English. No irony or whatever, I just want to be sure. Thanks!

    The map in TCS has a few errors.

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  16. 25 minutes ago, Minlister said:

    That's a beautiful map! I like a lot the balance between the graphic "simplicity" and the quantity of information it conveys. I notice a small point that bothers me slightly as my own Arfritha Vale sourcebook is now 99% ready to hit the JC: I gathered from previous publications, for instance TCS, that the Frithan territory was on the East (or right) bank of the Boranini, while this map put their main settlement on the West (or left) bank. Obviously, YGMV and all that kind of thing and TCS is not canonical for RQG, but I would like to know if, beyond that, this point mirrors an in-game, historical evolution, something like an extension of Frithan territory or a migration, for instance the clan joining the Malani, or something like that? Could you enlighten me? Thanks!  

    It represents the map in TCS getting a few details wrong. 

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  17. 17 minutes ago, Godweyn said:

     

    Wow that really helps to see the details of the surroundings, but I was referring to something like what David Scott said. The fort itself.

    There is no official map of the fort itself. But the site is perhaps more interesting than the fort! Here's the writeup:

    Two Ridge Fort (hill fort): This ancient fortress was fashioned atop a steep-ridged butte at the end of the Gejay Hills, and includes farms and pastures. This is the political and religious center of the Malani Tribe, and has temples to Orlanth and Humakt. 

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  18. On 9/18/2020 at 9:29 PM, Bohemond said:

    Are there any myths known about Doburdan, Jajagappa (the god, not the member of this forum), or Durbadath (the Pelorian lion god)?

    I am not sure Doburdun has much of a cult in the Third Age. He was a Darsenite Thunder God associated with Entekos. By the Third Age, he's probably just a local manifestation of Orlanth or a servant of Entekos.

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  19. Just now, Nick Brooke said:

    Ahem. The distinctive trait shared by all Seven of the Mothers is that they are willing to form illegal criminal conspiracies, defying unrighteous imperial authority, and make alliances with strange new forces in order to tear down an Evil Empire and replace it with something better.

    They are Argrath's natural allies. And some idiots still don't get that.

    If people assume that the alliances in the Hero Wars are straight-forward and easy, that is their problem.

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  20. 1 minute ago, Nick Brooke said:

    Eurmal, on the other hand, tries to exacerbate it.

    Thus, Argrath.

    It's poor old Flesh Man who suffers, as always...

    Similar dynamics can be seen within the Lunar Empire, where several of the Seven Mothers really don't care one way or another about the Orlanthi or about conquests in Dragon Pass or even about the Lunar Empire except in an abstract Obey the Red Emperor level. 

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