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  1. This division was very much HW/HQ 1.0. I think such distinction has pretty much been discarded. My understanding is that the rules distinction has been discarded. I think that many (most?) Gloranthan people believe that there is a distinction and many Gloranthan otherworld entities believe that there is a distinction (typically the less powerful and less knowledgable). So I would suggest that you can use the distinction in your stories, without having to have special rules. Or, if you don't like any form of this particular distinction, then blithely ignore it.
  2. Charles

    Ancient West

    I’ve always felt that ‘Giant’ is too descriptive and general and not specific to a single type of being. In my mind, the giants of Disorder are entirely different to Gonn Ort and his ilk. And they are both different types to the ‘Giants’ of the Praxians, which are their reverent name for their Great Spirits / Gods. I’m a killjoy, I know....
  3. I’d guess an ancient agreement. Brithos is not the original homeland of the Brithini but a place of refuge. If the Brithini break the agreement then they start to age. Or worse (whatever that may be for the Brithini).
  4. Charles

    Solar Campaign

    The lineage of Earth goddesses (Asrelia -> Ernalda -> Voria, and their dark sisters) does show signs of being one goddess so vast that people approach the various aspects as if they were entirely separate. However, as worshippers undergo their own transitions, they transfer their initiation without penalty from one to the next.
  5. Charles


    And here it is from Jeff's original FB postings - Belintar took on some of the powers or processes of the OOO.
  6. Charles


    In one publication, can’t remember which, doesn’t Ralzakark opine that it’s not worth becoming a god because of the restrictions of the Compromise?
  7. The community require several of these roles and performances for their ongoing defence and ongoing growth/maintenance, so it can't be disastrous for the individual chosen / volunteering. Any personal consequences will balance (in the long-term and in the average) as a positive for the individual volunteer. Some of the benefits might be the insights gained into the behaviour of the enemies. Maybe the benefits come from the purification? What if the only way to enter the purification is to have become unclean by performing as an enemy? That's not to say that there are no scapegoats used where the consequences are awful. It's not often discussed, some of Greg's trickster write-ups suggested that the crippled, insane, and other unfortunates with no powerful sponsors were forced into Eurmal and then horribly abused. Most die quickly and unmourned but some are empowered and become a danger to the community. And very rarely a terminal disaster for the community.
  8. Charles


    Belintar and the Compromise: Heroes that achieve godlike powers are (AFAIK) referred to as Demi-Gods these days, replacing the much abused term Superhero. Belintar and the Red Emperor are quite similar in their manner of maintaining simultaneous godhood and mortal existence (and the last person to refer to this in the court of the Red Emperor disappeared, assumed executed). Other Demi-Gods of the early Hero Wars period include Godunya, Jar-Eel, Cragspider (with her tamed Black Dragon), Harrek (wearing the Polar Bear God skin) and Ralzakark (who may have 'cheated' to get the position by having the exotic chaos feature of multiple bodies).
  9. I feel that we have ended up conflating two entirely different topics. This is leading to a certain level of personal criticism in this topic that feels quite off-putting to me, and which likely drives people away from this topic in particular and maybe from the lists entirely. Is it worth it? It is very unlikely that we will change anyone's mind in this debate. Many of us set our opinions a long time ago. I was recently shocked when I read a very old posting of mine (from more than 30 years ago) to find that I had already then come up with a variant Gloranthan idea that I still hold close today. (And it's not about Mysticism). For what it's worth, I think the two separate conflated topics are: What are the paths to mysticism and how do mystics of those paths act? vs. What are the powers of mystical magic? The various mystical paths, to me anyway, is a much more interesting topic. And how those paths affect the personal behaviour of those that follow them. For example, I am very taken by the idea that the 'devotees' at Old Wind are a mystery cult of Orlanth, who contemplate their breath or the wind to achieve a higher consciousness. Their understanding of the world and their place in it will be entirely unlike that of a dragonnewt close to becoming a dragon. Some aspects of their (the Orlanthis') asceticism may be shared with the Yelmalians that retire (or are 'retired') to the towers but other parts of their approach are different. I have some idea of what a theistic or sorcerous approach to mysticism might look like, but no idea of how a spiritist might approach a mystical goal. The Nysalorean approach, as practised and changed by the Lunars is different yet again. The Kralorelan and the East Isles approaches to mysticism only seems close to each other when looked at from the point of view of Central Genertelan Theists. And most importantly, I remember that Greg spoke several times at conventions of what mysticism meant to him, which went something like (and apologies if I get it very wrong, it was a long time ago). What we can see, hear, touch, feel and think etc. is This World. Everything else is the Other World. Mysticism is that which is neither This World nor the Other World. There's a paradox in there that my mind shies away from. I'm reminded of when I was first taught about mathematical Infinity and the various mathematical gradations of Infinity. After short period of trying to understand, I gave up and just used the formula to make use of the concepts. If we want to debate Illumination and Mysticim, we should talk about how to use it in a game set in Glorantha or in writing a story rather than to justify our own personal spiritual and/or religious beliefs.
  10. PS. Some mortals that ascended to godhood may not have died in the process, which might possibly leave them with some agency. The most plausible candidate is Sedenya, perhaps with the aid of Illumination and Chaos. I have my suspicions that Arkat did not die when he gave up his dark empire to ascend. Another lesser possibility is Pavis. Sartar died as part of the process of lighting his flame, and most other ascensions that I can think of too.
  11. I have a variant view of why and how the gods are dependent on mortals. The god exists as an entity with attributes, areas of interests, patterns of behaviour, but without any agency or even will. A god with no worshippers cannot do anything. When mortals use a god's magic, they temporarily manifest and become the god. When they quest in the god's path, they manifest and become the god for longer periods. To achieve this, they must adhere to the attributes, areas of interests and patterns of behaviour of their god. Over time, their community (clan, tribe, kingdom, empire, continent, whatever's relevent) recognise them as the pre-eminent representative of their god. For my purposes, they have become the god. Divination is a means of tapping into the collective knowledge of a god's worshippers, and this puts strong constraints of what divination can achieve. For a god to have any meaning and influence, they must have worshippers. Without worshippers, they are an empty husk. People that become magically powerful may step away from the path of their god. If they remain dedicated to their god, they become heroes of the god, and their god potentially gets new powers for their worshippers to use. If they step further away from their god and gain sufficient adherents (worshippers), they may quest to become a new god. Sedenya is likely a new god that quested to take up the splintered powers of several dead moons and unite them into a new moon unlike any previous moon. Sartar is a new god that is quite unlike any other god of the Orlanthi. Pavis is another new god.
  12. Start with the story. Then work out the mechanics. Issaries is a Lightbringer and is among the key figures of the Orlanth and Ernalda pantheon, so I can't see fundamental religious opposition among Orlanth initiates to this (but there may well be jealousy at a personal level). Issaries is a talker, newsbringer, negotiator, and storyteller, so cultists may well know more than usual among non-Orlanth initiates of the powers and hints of Orlanth's secrets. On the other hand, they absolutely do not know the secrets of Orlanth or of Orlanth's cults. So I'd suggest that the character can use Cult Lore at a high penalty. And there should be consequences if they succeed. If they succeed in becoming Orlanth they they pretty much have become an Orlanth cultist afterwards - so that could lead to a lot of interesting stories. And maybe they have also become less of an Issaries cultist but I would suggest that they have not left the Issaries cult, so that could be even more stories.
  13. I think that there's no edge (or no way to get to the edge). Sramak's River becomes exponentially more violent as characters try to sail further out. Depending on who they are and what they intend, they may find a way to sail up into the Sky world or down into the Underworld. This is likely much easier than trying to survive the torrent.
  14. Tatius is one of the highest priests of Yelm, has the backing of a large proportion of traditionalist Solars', and has sufficient lineage to try for the 10 tests, and is blocked by the Lunars. In Sartar, he found an immense source of power that could not be classified as Theistic, Sorcerous, or Spiritist. So he built his New Model Temple Of The Reaching Moon on it. Taking the Throne was his primary goal. Killing Orlanth and dominating the Orlanthis was a significant secondary goal. Using Chaos was just a means. Many years ago, Nick suggested Darth Vader as a model for Tatius. He could no longer breathe Orlanth’s air without mechanical aids, and his shadow follows a different Sun. Do we need Argrath the Villain?
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