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Patrick

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Everything posted by Patrick

  1. Unless, of course, Yelmalion Nomads don't worship through Sun Domes. Not canon of course, but MRQ strikingly gave the same magic and positions to Elmali and Yelmalions, except the former didn't have any priests. Are priests really necessary? (runs away from the crowd of farmer-soldiers who shout "Burn the heretic!"...)
  2. I am quite curious to hear any stories about the nomades at Sun County. I did expect ostrish riders and other minor tribes as Yelmalion worshippers, but now Sables and Impala are represented in force. Obviously, most of them would come to Sun County on Holy Days or High Holy Days. And probably along with families and herds... that creates a massive event: a "market" and multi/tribal gathering of thousands of tents, bigger than the permanent town! And local farmers may worship at local shrines I guess: do they also see groups of nomads? So in the middle of Fire season, there could be serious strains on water supply (even if impala and sables are small, they drink). Also, the political and military aspect can't be minor: at Moonbroth, the Lunars received help from the Sables (and not the Impalas...). IIRC Sun County remained neutral: to avoid taking side against the Yelmalion sables? not to mention personal bonds: "Boy, for your initiation, you'll go to the Other Side with that small impala child. Don't shame us! Support each other in the face of the Sun!" In the 90´s I somehow perceived Sun County as an isolated, xenophobic, authoritarian theocracy. But the picture doesn't fit any more. They are far more integrated to Nomad Prax than I thought... @MOB @David Scott did you co-work on this already?
  3. OK, because I've been given the chance to play HQ:G and also playtest RQ:G (or whatever it will be called), although not in Kralorela, I think it may be useful to clarify a few things here. Because, well, these two systems differ but both try to represent Glorantha, in their own way. In other words, they are just what they are: game systems. And the Gloranthan community is possibly the one that puts the highest emphasis on MGF over rules... Still, just to give you a bit of details on these systems representing people: 1) HeroQuest:Glorantha: No, people are not restricted to a "three-phase personality rune identity". When you create a character in HQ:G, you must pick a predominant Element, a predominant Power, and well, a predominant whatever-you-like (which can belong to the former categories). And then, you pick five abilities - including, if you so wish, other Runes. So, a Kralorelan can very well be a taciturn (Darkness), coleric (Storm) yet disillusionedly obedient (Fate) warrior (Death) who found illumination (Infinity) in the Immanent Mastery way (Dragonewt) and whose merit was rewarded by the Emperor (Godunya). That's 6 or 7 runes, so what? Now remember, all abilities in HQ:G are just a way to represent "what you can do to overcome challenges". Because you don't have the "Play football" ability doesn't mean you don't find pleasure watching it on TV. It's just not going to help you overcome obstacles; instead, maybe you may actually have the "Make accointances by chatting about football matches" ability! So, HQ:G doesn't contradict that all humans (maybe even all sentients) in Glorantha are made up of ALL runes. It's just that, well, "some girls are bigger than others" as the song goes. So, don't worry: Kralorela is as much of a complicated mess as the rest :-) 2) RQ:G: In yet-to-be RuneQuest:Glorantha, creating a character involves to: - pick 3 Element runes that get higher % values (60/40/20), then applying cultural bonuses and additional points to share among elements. - pick 3 (IIRC) Power runes [well, that category includes Man and Beast too, in that case] that get higher values (75, and the opposite gets 25), and I don't remember but I think you also get points to spend (given that whatever you spend on one side is lost on the other side of the pair (unless you're illuminated). - and don't care about the other (e.g. Condition) runes, such as Fate, Luck, Magic, Law, Chaos, etc. Again, it's a means to an end. Everyone is made up of all elements, but which ones can you draw power/help from? So far, Kralorela isn't covered in the base rule book; but I'd guess creating the same character as above would involve putting your big scores in Darkness, Storm, Death, and spending other skill points on stuff like Meditation etc. which wouldn't be represented by runes, but would somehow correspond to the link the character has to the Immanent Mastery, Godunya, etc. I have no idea about the illumination skill(s) but there's certainly something there, and probably not described as a Rune in that case. Although it probably is, from a mythical standpoint. So, you get different rules, but still the same world. Just not described the same way. After all, is an electron a particle, or a wave...? ;-) OK, enough foolishness for tonight.
  4. Patrick

    Spirits

    Maybe spirits can be "part of" each other, like some gods are viewed as parts of a greater god?
  5. Well, some don't like Runes, and some don't like Ducks ;-) I personnally like both, but Glorantha is big enough for all variants. And I wouldn't infer any prejudice from anti-Durulz opinions: they are not "real", this is fiction, and I can understand people want different things in their fiction - not necessarily comic relief.
  6. Yes, with a companion Atlas of the God Time! aka the Godleaner Positioning Scheme ;-)
  7. The way I see it... (and YGWV!) it actually looks quite a natural thing for Gloranthans to fit This World HQs into situations, because myths are the very fabric, not just of Glorantha, but also of their mindset. Their "intellectual tools", if you will, are the myths that shaped their culture. Myths explain the world as it is, and provide applicable solutions to its challenges. As the Zorak Zorani proverb goes: "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" ;-) So in a way, it's not so much that people will try to force a match between a mundane situation and a myth, it's more the other way round: they see a situation and they think "wait, our herd beasts were stolen, what can we do about it? what did Orlanth do when it happened to Him?" And off you go to re-enact the Plunder of Aron, or whatever myth is appropriate in your culture. In fact, that's what most people will try in one way or another - depending on how much magic they can put in it. If you're a devotee, you can use a feat on the spot; which shares pretty similar constraints to a This World HQ, doesn't it? You have to re-enact the actions of the God, follow a set sequence, etc. (and Glorantha being what it is, its mythical laws of physics grant you a huge bonus when doing so, which makes it worth it, in spite of these constraints. Under HGQ rules it's a +M IIRC!). If you have community support and some time to prepare, then you can do even more, and that's a This World HQ. Which still involves a lot of mundane actions: maybe the fyrd of the clan will gather and support the Orlanthi quester, and in a way it's just the battle they were going to fight to get their beasts back, anyway. Except, because they identify to the Thunder Brothers, and the whole community sends their prayers, they also get bonuses, and they give additional magic to the Quester(s), etc. And if you really have time, resources, and great personal magic and want to go big, then you may perform an Otherworld HQ. Much more dangerous, much more rewarding too. And in some cases, you may be forced to this last resort. If the Lunars occupy your lands, crushed your tribe, and stole your beasts, well, just getting some mundane magic to free them back from the closest garrison won't really save you. Next thing, the whole Lunar Army will come back, kill or enslave everyone, or even feed the Bat on your clan... So before starving, maybe an Otherworld HQ can help: you'd get magical beasts, or some great items to trade for a new herd, and keep ruminating your hatred for the Moonlovers till you can really retaliate. But in all cases, you're essentially doing "what's right to do/what you know how to do" as Orlanthi, for instance. And it doesn't mean you're not acting smart, or not taking the mundane into account; you are, and you apply a pattern/solution/technique/tactic/strategy you know (in the form of a myth), rather than improvising because, hey, Orlanth did it and it worked!
  8. As an aside: if your PC manages to cool down Pavis County, the Big Rubble Trolls will be very happy, possibly more active in the region. In fact, they may help your PCs, even though Himile worship isn't common there. ZZ fighting Oakfed, maybe? Oh, and you may ask the Morokanths about the Dark Eater, too...
  9. Patrick

    Uz thread

    Regarding sunlight sensitivity , Troll Pack / Uz Lore said (p27): "To surface dwellers clothing is necessary. Exposure to light makes uz skin peel and flake mercilessly. ...In sunny regions they use wide-brimmed hats for maximum shade. ...But protuding ears are quite sensitive to light, and only a few hours exposure will cause serious discomfort." Handsome males avoid it to remain handsome - suntan isn't fashionable among the Uz ;-) And to Uzko, ideal temperature is : 30 to 60°F i.e. -1°C to 16°C. So adding around 15°C to the actual temperature gives you an idea of how uncomfortably hot it is for an Uzko...
  10. I always assumed Ethilrist named the place this way, because it's in the mountains and serves him as the place to weite his famous Memoirs... so "Perchoir de la Muse" (des Muses?) makes senses?
  11. Just my 2 cents... Nothing in the game mechanics of HQ:G prevents a character from having two different Elemental connections: p44: "1. Your Soul: Choose an Elemental Rune" "3. Choose a third Rune You can choose a second Power Rune, a Condition Rune, a Form Rune, or some other Special Rune for your hero’s third affinity. You cannot choose a Power Rune that is opposed to your second Rune." (restrictions are about the Power pairs, not Elements; and I take "other Special Rune" as including both Condition runes and Elemental runes) We also know some cults do, especially Anilla (Darkness & Water), Wachaza (Darkness & Water), Lorion (Sky/Light & Water) - all according to GtG. So, there's no reason why Caladra & Aurelion couldn't be a "combined" cult (like, say, the Seven Mothers), with e.g. Fire/Earth/Harmony. Whether that's the direction Jeff wants to take is another story.
  12. Yes, rituals are probably where the limits are most obviously blurred. In the old time of RQ3, skills for rituals where applicable for all systems ("worlds") of magic. I think the HQ p161 commented elsewhere tells that it's now canon - magic systems are different approaches/ways to the same reality (which IMHO is best represented via "runes", and runes are magic-system-agnostic). In fact, there is probably room for plenty of cross-overs of sorcery in other systems. e.g. the way a Hero becomes Immortals - something attested among sorcerers (e.g. Ethilrist, Talor), theists (e.g. Hachrat, Etyries), shamans (e.g. Cragspider)... Not too knowledgeable about mystics, but probably applicable, too (Kralorelan emperors). It would be interesting to "map out" the magical economy/ecology of Glorantha...
  13. Mmmmm, my theory on the prophecy's accomplishment falls in the water
  14. So did they participate in the sack of Sog, or where they operating independantly overseas at that time?
  15. You asked a question, and we hardly touched it... We know the prophecy that says: “The Hero Age will come again: when the Nameless Man returns, and the Great Wolf howls at Sog’s Gate, the Staff of Arinsor can open the Gate of Banir again. Woe to humankind if the Three Weapons of Talor are not together.” From the end, backwards: the reference to powers inherited from Talor seems indeed to hint at a revival of his ancient enemy, the Tarjinian Bull, in one form or another... The Staff of Arinsor also clearly drives us back to the First Age wars. The Great Wolf could be a reminder of the Telmori cursed by Talor. Yet I wonder - when did Harrek's men start being labelled "Wolfs"? They only became "Wolf Pirates" when at sea with the Yggites, I guess, hence after the sack of Sog, and the reason behind taking such a name for following a Bear guy is unclear to me. So, what about the time of the horde attaching Sog, and who was part of it? Any large bunch of Telmori? Is Wolf a traditional name in Fronela for "savage raiders", that very soon nicknamed Harrek's troop? Last but not Least, the Nameless Man: mentioned in the events for Loskalm (Tawars??) and Janube river states (including former tawari places?), a spirit which "has haunted Fronela for years, moving from place to place as a mist which congeals and possesses innocents to further his long-lived, nefarious scheme of destruction upon mankind". Well, Arinsor may have an alibi on that one - the Nameless Man seems more Darkness-related than fond of Fire magics. But who knows, with these Nysalorean Illuminates? Maybe he survived the battle with Talor, but lost his fire powers? Or maybe one of his Dark disciples became the Nameless Man? It could also somewhat embody the terrible powers of the Syndic's Ban mists? Any hint whether it has been active for long, or if it's recent? At any rate - yes, I'm quite tempted to expect some bullish manifestations of the return of Evil in that area...
  16. Any records of that campaign? I'd be very interested... :-)
  17. Well, that point may well be closer to the initial topic than expected... Because there is another interesting Entity that Orlanth meets on the Westfaring, joining the Lightbringers along with Issaries and Lhankor Mhy... An Entity that also has no Elemental rune connection - a quite uncommon feature, even among the mixed hodgepodge that constituted the Storm & Earth Pantheon... An Entity that receives no sacrifices, only veneration... An Entity with unclear ancestry tracing back to the Gloranthan Court, or possibly earlier... An Entity named in a way strangely resembling that of an Ascended Master, Xemela, whose veneration remained strongly rooted throughout Time among very different and even hostile Malkioni schools... Please let me introduce... Chalanna Arroy ! So we get all these lovely Menena-caste women of Kachasti and Tadeniti origin, who had their own ways and arts to support their communities since the Age of Danmalastan, who count among their rank the mother of Hrestol and most-popular-Saint-of-all-Malkioni-across-Glorantha-after-Mlakion-himself... And of course, just like their male comrades, many of them in Storm-Age western Genertela are captured, abused, enslaved, faced with the terrible spiritual ordeal of a world turned mad, and in great need of compassion... And then - Oh Miracle - the powers of Harmony and Life appear to the wandering Orlanth... And then - Oh Blessing - the cult of Chalanna Arroy grows among the Theyalans... Praise the Knowing God for finding the Law! Praise the Talking God for telling the Path! Praise the White Goddess for healing the World!
  18. Quite a nice remark, Joerg! It provides plenty of gaming possibilities, in terms of "consuming components": getting the items required, but also possibly facing reprobation, in the case of unusual rituals (the sort of odd ceremonies for dire straits that PCs tend to practice...). I can quite imagine the mainstream community and local official zzaburi feeling like there is something un-acceptable going on: people who bring animals and precious objects, in order to destroy/tap them in some sort of unknown ceremony... "my Invisible God, isn't that pagan sacrifices right under my nose?" ;-) On a more theoretical standpoint, it actually raises (again) the question of the "convergences" between Magical Ways. After all, where are the true differences between: - "Pure" Sorcery, based on Thought: no tapping (no consumption of material objects/beings), no chanting or praying or making gestures (no ceremonies), no worship or veneration - "Brithini" Sorcery (or so I presume): tapping (consumption of material objects/beings), maybe some chants or gestures (sorcerous ceremonies?), no worship or veneration - "Modern Malkioni" Sorcery (may vary per school, but likely applies to Rokari and Hrestoli): tapping during rituals (consumption of material objects/beings), chanting and gestures (ceremonies), veneration passed along a "chain" to other wizards - Theistic worship: consumption of material objects/beings (aka sacrifices), chanting and gestures (ceremonies), worship/veneration passed onto other beings (gods, or even mortal & living Heroes) - Animist worship: consumption of material objects/beings (aka sacrifices or spirit geas), chanting and gestures (ceremonies), worship/veneration passed onto other beings (otherwordly spirits, or even dead ancestors/Heroes) - Mystic meditation: no sacrifices (no consumption of material objects/beings), often specific gestures (or absence thereof - aka meditative postures), specific state of mind possibly focused on a particular mental representation of some sort of transcendent power (aka veneration)... OK, I've said enough to be burnt as Heretic in quite a few places... ;-) However, it sounds to me like: a) there are no differences in nature, only in practices, between the "Four Worlds" b) the variations could find explanations that do not necessitate to consider that the 4 types of magic come from different "Worlds" Take the well-known "inflexibility & specialization" of wizardry spells, for instance - as represented in HQG by the "no stretch allowed" rule; and in RQ3 by the difficulty of training a brand new skill for each spell, wit a potential bonus/augment drawn from Ceremony (which, incidentally, was the same damn skill for all types of Magic, at that time), vs. divine magic granting some results almost every time (although often less "targeted", because of th eimpossibility to use skills like Intensity, etc.). That's pretty much a defining feature of sorcery, in terms of in-world experimental evidence. You may say - if theistic worship is just a "degraded" version of sorcery, say, how comes theists can get Well, what if... What if a Human Being could use a simple invocation spell targeted to a very specific Otherworld entity (which we may call an Ascended Master, Saint, or for simplicity's sake, a "God"), allowing him/her to pass on magical energy provided via objects & beings (animals) for tapping in the form of sacrifices, along with his/her "veneration", to fuel an effect "chosen" by (or asked/commanded to) that summoned Otherworld Entity... don't we get something with a higher chance of "getting something" (because the Human Being has involved a higher-than-usual amount of energy, thanks to the tapping etc.), yet that could resort to less-narrowly defined effects (because the Otherworld Entity intervenes in the process, and picks one of its narrow but numerous spells)? In other words - a recipe for turning sorcerous practices into theistic ones, as Zzabur always told it happened? The barriers between the Four Worlds now blur and vanish... All is one, the whole world is one! Praised be Glorantha, the Invisible Goddess ! 8-)
  19. An interesting question here: if componentd are here to help "the wizard" rather than "the spell" - acting as training/mnemotechnic support - then: could two different wizards use completely different components to cast the same spell, learned from the same Grimoire? Also, in some Grimoires components could be mentioned (in "Sorcery for dummies vol.1"), and not in others (because components are not really part of the spell, they are what you add to focus yourself correctly). Any guess about, say, the Abiding Book or the Blue Book of Zzabur regarding components?
  20. I presume you would also be restricted to specific items or beings to tap, in order to get the "right type of energy" i.e. tied to the right Rune(s). Probably not a common practice anyway, as most Malkioni reject tapping.
  21. As a follow-up on the ideas that occurred to me based on the thread: http://basicroleplaying.org/topic/4111-origins-of-the-orlanthi-peoples-and-the-lankhor-mhy-and-issaries-cults/ ... I'd like to review what we really know about the actual practice of sorcery/wizardry. 1/ we know that casting spells, learnt from a Grimoire or as rote formula, normally requires to talk aloud (not sure, but I kind of imagine powerful Mages would be able to do without). Is holding a physical object i.e. the Grimoire or a talisman, still needed for this? 2/ what about rituals? previous publications & illustrations had wizards work in "laboratories", draw pentacles, stand close to a brasier (presumably to burn incense or something else)... do (some) sorcery rituals require to hold/use/consume specific material objects or elemnts, at least in order to ease the path to success? For instance, would a sorcerer spill water on the floor or drown a tablet with its name to invoke an otherwordly entity related to the Water rune, etc.? In other words: what does the life of a wizard look like, when Talars ask for a specific achievement? e.g. does he (or she) consult Grimoires and peers for details, and start looking for "a drop of Dragonewt blood, and two feathers from a Demi-Bird"...? ("hey, let's order these Horali to go hunt some Draconic Krjalki for the service of our Lord...")
  22. I would top up: WOAH! This is a breakthrough in Gloranthan studies, leading to countless possibilities; and I see it as the final nail in the coffin of the HW/HQ1 Godlearnerish theory of the "separated realms". First off: what we are saying is: "Many previously enslaved Kachasti & Tadeniti (especially the Zzaburi among them) joined Storm-worshipping proto-Orlanthi in the Storm Age, and influenced/created the cults of Issaries and Lhankor Mhy, respectively." (stop me if I misunderstood something) And I heartily subscribed to this hypothesis, which fits all we know about the period (and mythic elements, e.g. the fact that Orlanth meets Issaries & LM during the Westfaring in the LBQ). Let's now consider the question or the nature of the in-bringing of these sorcerers to Godly cults: influenced, or created? 1/ If we say "influenced": We may have a good case for LM, as the Tadeniti could have created the "Alien Combination Machine" and brought the various Grimoires known to the Lhankor Mhy cult. In that case, we'd see LM as a pre-existing Storm Tribe cult, that received additional knowledge from external populations/new members. In the case of Issaries, however, the situation looks less promising: Issaries priests and temples have no access to sorcery (AFAIK, and at least until the Second Age when Godlearners may interfere). How would the cult of Issaries benefit from sorcerous magic bringers, without resorting to any sorcery? Did they find another form of "conversion" of spells into runic affinities and feats? Or did the poor Kachasti sorcerers only manage to "emulate" Issaries via their Rune knowledge, but without any sorcery usage, which was lost? And here we also find an oddity worth mentioning: the "Church of Ishara" (I presume we'd now rather call it a School), to which Trader Princes of Maniria belong. In other words: some of the Kachasti knowledge was preserved outside of the Storm Tribe (and maybe even some of the Kachasti zzaburi survived outside the Theyalan domination), and re-discovered or re-brought to historical attention by Caselain... Which means we get not only the well-know LM hybridation/juxtaposition of theism and sorcery, but also a co-existence of Issaries/Ishara "ways" providing essentially the same powers under two different realms of magic: theism, and sorcery. Could it be that the cult of Issaries really "converted" sorcerous abilities from the Kachasti into good, sound theistic powers? Something similar to what used to be called "misapplied worship"? OK, but how does it work...? 2/ If we say "created": In that hypothesis, we'd go straightforwardly for something like: proto-Orlanthi started to worship previously existing sorcerous entities, presumably Ascended Masters. There is almost a solution of continuity with the "influence" discussed above for Issaries (Ishara would be an Ascended Master, who is now worshiped as Issaries). Further more, we get an interesting parallel with: - the chain of veneration: The sorcerous cults can channel magical energy to the leading practicioner(s). In this case, either the Ascended Master or his new High Priest would use this energy to become a "God". The option of the High Priest "taking the place" of the Ascended Master cannot be fully excluded; it sounds pretty much like what Lokmaydon tried to do to Orlanth in the First Age... Which further nurtures the idea that the chain of veneration is, in nature, not very different from the theistic worship channeling. - Zzabur's view on the nature of the Gods: Gods are powerful "Beings" (Human or other, e.g. Eransachulan...) who accepted worship, and thus became "trapped" in paganism. Again, we get an Ascended Master (presumably a Human Kachasti or Tadeniti, in the origins) who receives sacrifices, "accepts" to grant his magic to these followers, and consequently turns (Zzabur would probably say "falls") to Godhood. So, whatever option we favour ("influence/create"), we reach more or less the same conclusion: there are gateways between sorcery and theism, and these forms of magic are not as different as they seem at first glance... Does that make sense?
  23. Well, it could probably be BOTH at the same time...
  24. In fact, we should start seeing materials on Malkioni settings in the Kethaela series: God Forgot/Casino Town, and the Heortland Esvulari... Looking forward to it!
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