M Helsdon

They do, in translation. But all are derived from ancient sources. Aelianus explains why the orders are expressed in 'reverse' order (chapter 51 of his Tactics) as in 'to the pike, face' instead of 'face to the pike'. In the latter, soldiers will start to obey the order as soon as they hear it, but some will start to face in one direction, others the opposite direction. It doesn't matter if the soldiers are using spears, pikes, or muskets, an entirely different language - the logic remains the same. And, of course, Aelianus became necessary reading in the age of pike and musket, so his methods have a direct carry forward to the present.

The following is derived from reading Aelianus and Asclepiodotus: even in translation the meanings aren't always apparent, despite the drawings they helpfully provided. As such, even though modified for Glorantha, some of my interpretations are probably wrong. This assumes a Pelorian phalanx, with some of the counter-march orders arbitrarily associated with various gods or emperors. A phalanx requires drill and discipline to function, and is capable of performing numerous maneuvers upon command. Commands are given by voice, by trumpet or by the movement of the standard, or a combination of these. The movement of a phalanx on the battlefield performing precise exercises can intimidate and cower the enemy: a thousand or more glinting spearheads moving in unison to a common purpose will overawe a foe, lowering their morale before a blow has been struck. With the sound of a thousand or more men marching together the effect may daunt even the bravest barbarian. A number of Pelorian phalanx drill commands are given below. Attention! Await order about to be issued. To arms! Gather weapons and shield, shield resting against knees, spear vertical. Stand to your arms! Face front, shield in front of body, spear vertical. Raise spears! Spear held upright, base off the ground. Front ranks! Lower spears! Front ranks lower spears to the horizontal attack position. Fall in! Gather in formation. Fall out! Drop out of formation. Mark distances! Form the correct distance from soldiers in front and to the sides. Form files! Files form a straight line. Form ranks! Files maintain a straight line from flank to flank. Dress files! Straighten the files. Dress ranks! Straighten the ranks. Eyes front! Look to the front. Leaders, order your files! File-leaders ensure their file is in proper order and spacing. Take the first distance! File-leaders stop, defining the first distance. March! March forward. Advance! Advance to contact enemy. Halt! Halt. The depth, double! Close order to open order: file merges into the file beside it. The width, double! Open order to close order: rear file moves forward to the left to fill the gap between two forward files. Shields lock! Adopt close order. About-face! Fully turn to face in the opposite direction. To the pike, face! Turn right. To the pike, wheel! All soldiers in the formation turn to the right. To the shield, face! Turn left. To the shield, wheel! All soldiers in the formation turn to the left. As you were! Disregard the previous order and return to the most recent order. Daxdarius File Counter-march! Counter-march by file: formation halts, file-leader about-faces to face in the opposite direction and steps into the space between the files; the file advances past them with each member wheeling about, stepping into position. Once complete the formation is facing in the opposite direction to its initial orientation and positioned ahead of its original position. Polaris File Counter-march! Counter-march by file: formation halts, the men in each file about face. The file-leaders are now at the rear of the formation. The formation occupies the same location it did prior to the order. Khordavus File Counter-march! Counter-march by file: formation halts, the file leader about-faces, steps into the space between files and moves down between his file and the next; as each soldier in the file is passed they wheel about and follow the file-leader. Once complete the formation is facing in the opposite direction to its initial orientation and positioned behind its original position. Daxdarius Rank Counter-march! Counter-march by rank: formation halts, and counter-march commences at the wing closest to the enemy. The soldier at the end of each rank steps into the space between the ranks; their original rank advances past them with each member wheeling about, stepping into position beside the previous soldier. Once complete the formation is positioned beside its original position, and closer to the enemy. Polaris Rank Counter-march! Counter-march by rank: formation halts, and the counter-march commences with the soldier at the end of each rank stepping into the space between the ranks and moving along between the files, followed by the rest of the rank until the last soldier has stepped back. The phalanx files are now in the reverse order. Khordavus Rank Counter-march! Counter-march by rank: formation halts and countermarch commences on the wing furthest from the enemy. The soldier at the end of the rank steps into the space between the ranks and moves down between the files; as each soldier in the rank is passed they follow the rank-leader. Once complete the formation is positioned beside its original position, and further from the enemy.

Concur. Something I've been writing for my War in Glorantha project may be useful: Logistics: Supply Caravans An army train typically consists of at least a hundred wagons, each pulled by eight mules or a team of oxen and loaded with food, fodder for the troops and animals, and several wagons carrying military supplies – replacement weapons and armor. Some carry the regimental payroll in locked bronze strongboxes. A garrison supply caravan tends to be smaller – around ten wagons, and is accompanied by an armed guard. A complement for ten wagons is twenty muleskinners, a scribe and caravan master (often a regimental quartermaster) and several files of soldiers, depending on the perceived risk of ambush. Sections of cavalry may be added to supplement the protection of the convoy. Each wagon carries an average load of 1100-1200 lbs. of food or equipment. A two-wheeled cart can carry 600-800 lbs. While the use of oxen allows armies to move larger loads, it slows the rate of movement to two miles an hour for five hours before the animals become exhausted, and then on a good road. However, oxen can subsist on a diet of grass. Wagons generate their own logistical burdens: drivers, and craftsmen to repair them, who in turn require tools and lumber, all of which further increase the logistics load on the army. Beyond the network of reliable roads, mule and donkey trains are employed. An army train would number six to eight hundred mules. A garrison supply caravan reliant on mules usually consists of at least forty mules, five muleskinners, three mounted officers and two files of soldiers. Lunar Deer may replace some of the mules as meat-on-the hoof, being slaughtered at the end of the journey. A mule supply caravan carries approximately 5200 lbs. of food and other supplies. Five horses or mules can carry the load of a single ox-cart and travel at around four miles an hour for eight hours, on a good road. Over very rough terrain bearers may be employed instead, often slaves. A human bearer in good health can carry 60-80 pounds for ten to fifteen miles in a day, so a caravan reliant on bearers requires at least eighty and often a hundred, to allow for loses along the way. However, if the slaves must be shackled, then travel will be slower, with the bearers consuming more of the supplies they carry. Navigable rivers provide an often faster alternative. A barge can carry far more than a wagon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most of the above is derived from reading about Greek and Roman logistics, plus a little from the supply caravans in Griffin Mountain.

Wood, sinew, horn, glue. A composite bow requires far less wood than a wheel. Over rough ground, as there are only tracks across Pent, wagons are going to be far slower than pack animals, probably moving at half the speed or less.

Canon can change...

Looking at Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, page 231, the Potor are described as a Pol-Joni clan, formed from refugees of the Dundealos tribe. Am wondering if canon has changed?

I've posted small snippets here.

Yara Aranis isn't worshipped by troops, except those assigned to or coming from the Temples of the Reaching Moon, so there should be very few of her cultists likely to travel beyond the borders of the empire.

Current contents - in the process of being expanded, reorganized: Contents Introduction. 7 Sources. 7 Primary Sources. 7 Secondary Sources. 7 A Note on Terminology. 7 Gloranthan Warfare. 8 Troop Types. 8 Light Infantry. 9 Heavy Infantry. 9 Light Cavalry. 9 Heavy Cavalry. 9 Chariots. 9 Artillery. 9 Vexillae. 9 Flier. 9 Magical 9 Heroes. 10 Weapons and Armor. 10 Armor. 10 Animal Armor. 11 Weapons. 11 Lottery Swords. 12 Shields. 13 Runes, Weapons and Shields. 14 Helmet and Shield Decoration. 14 Masks. 15 Materials. 15 Unit Organization. 17 Militia. 17 Training. 17 Warband. 17 Mercenaries. 17 Equipment. 18 Training. 18 Terms of Service. 18 Regiments. 19 The Standard. 19 Composition. 20 Training. 20 Terms of Service. 21 Rates of Pay. 21 Regimental Rivalry. 22 Order of Battle. 23 Formations. 23 Shield-wall 23 Boar’s Head. 24 Components of a Shield-wall 24 Phalanx. 25 Schiltron. 26 Components of a Phalanx. 27 Cavalry Formations. 27 Line. 27 Wedge. 27 Rhombus. 27 The Charge. 28 Stand-off Attack. 28 Shock Attack. 28 Types of Cavalry. 28 Troop Types. 29 Infantry. 29 Cavalry. 29 Riding Animals. 30 Chariots. 32 Vexillae. 33 Artillery. 33 Heroes. 34 Fliers. 34 Warfare. 36 Pelorian Warfare. 36 Pelanda. 37 Dara Happa. 37 Carmania. 39 Lunar Empire. 40 Barbarian Belt. 42 Pentan Warfare. 43 Grazelander Warfare. 43 Orlanthi Warfare. 44 Praxian Warfare. 46 Duels and Individual Combat. 46 The Orlanthi Duel 47 The Humakt Duel 47 The Yanafal Tarnils Duel 48 The Yelmalion Duel 48 Combat Games. 48 Gladiatorial Contests. 48 Chariot Racing. 48 Dara Happan Races. 48 Shield Push. 49 Treatment of Prisoners. 49 Transport and Mobility. 51 The Campaign Year. 51 Sea Season. 51 Fire Season. 51 Earth Season. 51 Dark Season. 52 Storm Season. 52 Sacred Time. 52 Roads and Warfare. 52 Rivers and Warfare. 55 Terrain. 56 Movement Rates. 56 Fortifications and Siege Warfare. 59 Siege Weapons. 59 Dwarven Weaponry. 60 Elementals. 60 Magic. 61 Fortifications. 61 Walls. 61 Bastions. 66 Towers. 66 Posterns. 67 Gates. 67 Guardian Spirits. 69 Magic. 69 Other Defences. 70 Temple Defenses. 70 Warfare and Religion. 72 Magic. 72 Wyters and Patron Deities. 72 Magical Regiments. 72 The Runes. 73 Aspects. 74 War Gods. 74 Cavalry Gods. 76 Chariot Gods. 76 War Gods of the Lunar Empire. 76 Hastatus. 77 Hon-eel 77 Humakt. 77 Hwarin Dalthippa. 77 Kastok, Cavalry God. 77 Polaris, War God. 77 Saggitus. 78 Shargash, God of Destruction. 78 Urvairinus, Army God. 78 Yanafal Tarnils. 78 Yara Aranis. 79 Yelmalio. 79 War Gods of Saird. 79 War Gods of Tarsh. 79 War Gods of Sartar. 80 Babeester Gor. 80 Humakt. 80 Maran Gor. 80 Orlanth Adventurous. 80 Orlanth Thunderous. 81 Storm Bull 81 Yelmalio. 81 Plates. 82 Armies of Central Genertela. 87 Lunar Army. 87 Organization. 88 Command Standards. 88 Lunar Headquarters. 89 Lunar Army Corps. 89 Miscellaneous Titles. 89 Lunar Regiment Organization. 90 College of Magic. 91 Imperial Bodyguard. 92 Heartland Corps. 93 The Ten Wall Phalanxes. 93 Daxdarian Phalanxes. 94 Line Regiments. 94 Carmania. 95 Auxiliaries. 95 Eol 95 Hungry Plateau. 95 Char-un. 95 Lunar Allies. 96 Cavalry Corps. 96 Provincial Army. 96 Provincial Army Organization. 96 The Lunar Provinces. 97 Sartar Free Army. 98 Sartar Regiment Organization. 99 Orlanthi Standards. 100 Humakt’s Raven Banner. 100 Battle Banner of the EWF. 100 Sartar Magical Union. 100 Sartar Free Army. 101 The Sartar Royal Guard. 102 Sartar City Militia. 102 The Barbarian Horde. 102 Independents. 102 The Agimori of Prax. 102 Beastmen. 103 The Black Horse Troop. 103 Cragspider and her Allies. 103 Dragonewts. 103 Giants. 104 Grazeland Pony Breeders. 104 The Holy Country. 104 Calandraland. 105 Ditali 105 Esrolia. 105 God Forgot. 106 Heortland. 106 Shadow Plateau. 106 The Islands. 106 Mercenaries in Pavis. 106 The Pol-Joni 107 Praxian Animal Nomads. 107 Bison Tribe. 108 High Llama Tribe. 108 Impala Tribe. 108 Rhinoceros Tribe. 108 Sable Tribe. 108 Unicorn Tribe. 108 Zebra Tribe. 109 Queendom of Jab. 109 Sun Dome Temples. 109 Yelmalion Regiments. 110 Mo Baustra. 111 Vanntar. 112 Alda-Chur. 112 Tarsh Exiles. 112 The Telmori 113 Tusk Riders. 113 Hero Wars Army Lists. 114 Unit Descriptions. 114 Morale. 114 Lunar Army List. 114 Lunar Headquarters. 114 College of Magic. 115 Sister’s Army. 116 Imperial Bodyguard. 116 Heartland Corps. 117 Heavy Infantry. 117 Light Infantry. 119 Cavalry Corps. 121 Heavy Cavalry. 121 Light Cavalry. 123 Chariots. 123 Provincial Army. 124 Aggar. 124 Holay. 124 Tarsh. 125 Vanch. 127 Carmania. 127 Sartar Free Army List. 127 Sartar Headquarters. 127 Sartar Magical Union. 128 Sartar Free Army. 131 Heavy Cavalry. 131 Light Cavalry. 132 Heavy Infantry. 132 Light Infantry. 133 Sartar City Militia. 133 Barbarian Horde. 134 Independents. 136 The Agimori of Prax. 136 Beastmen. 136 The Black Horse Troop. 137 Cragspider and her Allies. 138 Delecti 139 Dragonewts. 140 The Dwarf of Dwarf Mine. 141 Giants. 141 Grazeland Pony Breeders. 142 Mercenaries in Pavis. 143 Queendom of Jab. 143 Sun Dome Templars. 144 Unicorn Tribe. 144 Tarsh Exiles. 145 Tusk Riders. 146 Appendices. 147 Sun Dome Temples. 147 The First Age. 147 The Second Age. 148 The Third Age. 150 The Great Harpoon. 151 The History of the Harpoon. 151 Recent History. 151 The Tribes of Sartar. 152 Old Hendriki 152 Sword Orlanthi 152 Axe Orlanthi 152 Dark Orlanthi 152 Yelmalio. 152 Light Orlanthi 152 Composition of the Sartar Free Army. 152 Lunar Regimental Founders. 153 Fazzur Wideread, the Greatest General of Glorantha 153 The Seshnelan Army. 157 Codes of War. 158 Crusades. 158 Seshnelan Army List. 159 The Kralorelan Army. 160 Army and Navy Quality. 160 Military Terminology. 163 General 163 Armor. 164 Weapons. 165

Hi Steve: probably not, there's quite a bit taken from copyright sources: Sources Primary Sources · The Guide to Glorantha · Sartar – Kingdom of Heroes · Sartar Companion · Pavis – Gateway to Adventure · Pavis boxed set · The Coming Storm · www.glorantha.com · Wyrms Footnotes · RuneQuest · HeroQuest Glorantha · King of Sartar · Dragon Pass board game Secondary Sources · Cults of Prax · Griffin Mountain · Borderlands · RuneQuest Companion · Gods of Glorantha · River of Cradles · Sun County · Strangers in Prax · Shadows on the Borderland The following were used to a lesser degree: · History of the Dara Happan Army · The Fortunate Succession · Esrolia: the Land of Ten Thousand Goddesses · Arcane Lore · Revealed Mythologies However, there's also a very great deal of new material, relating to fortifications, logistics, magic use, etc.

The caravans seem to terminate there. Smaller parties might attempt to enter Kralorela, but whether they'd succeed is doubtful. The Guide says: As a result of these incursions, they consider all outsiders to be God Learners and deal severely with any intrusions into their realm. Since the Opening, they have kept almost everyone away. The only exception is through the city of Lur Nop. Even entry at Lur Nop is restricted. Guide: Each barbarian nation has its own enclave, carefully overseen by the mandarins. So even if they get to Lur Nop, the 'Barbarian Quarter' seems as far as they can get, without disguise and subterfuge.

Yet the population of griffins survived... There's no indication the Opili ever occupied Balazar. Lionbirds probably aren't griffins. My source for Sheng exterminating griffins is an email by Greg Stafford, cited above.

The Guide says: Jangi-Shar (large city): This city is the terminus of the famous Etyries Caravan from the Lunar Empire and is an important trade center. Temples to foreign gods, devils, and antigods serve its large foreign population, largely Lunars and Pentans, but even dark trolls can be seen in the city. Maize is grown locally, having been introduced by Lunar missionaries almost a century ago.

The map in the Guide and Atlas excludes most of the Elder Wilds and Balazar from Sheng Seleris' empire (and there are still griffins there, but little to no mention of them in lowland Peloria). Given that there were far richer pickings elsewhere, there seems little reason to do more than briefly scout those regions, with a fair risk the scouts wouldn't come back. Sending a demigod into the wilderness doesn't seem strategically or logistically sensible. In fact for the Elder Wilds there's the Uncommon Event: Griffins hunting horses; horsemen beware! This threat is not mentioned elsewhere, but explains why Sheng attempted to exterminate them.

Checking using the Argan Argar Atlas, Griffin Mountain is well outside the border. True, but the population isn't large. Balazar and the Elder Wilds host numerous herd beasts, but not as many as there would have been in lowland Peloria. Griffins are literally apex predators, so their numbers are going to be relatively small in such a poor region. In the treatise on Gloranthan warfare I'm putting together (160+ pages now...) the entry for Griffins reads: Griffins: in ancient times the flying mounts of the worshippers of Yelm but are now rarely encountered as riding creatures. Sheng Seleris exterminated almost all of the griffins in Peloria. The favorite mode of attack of griffins is a swoop down from above.

His realm didn't extend far into Balazar or the Elder Wilds - poor grazing. The griffins there are a small relict population.

Searching for something else, I came across this snippet from Mr. Stafford, regarding griffins: http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd8/2001.01/1793.html It may no longer be canon, but it seems very possible that the reason worshippers of Yelm the Rider no longer ride griffins is that Sheng Seleris exterminated all of the griffins in Peloria. His intent might have been to weaken Galgarenge as an eater of horses, but it also removed the possibility of massed aerial cavalry.

The Writher does seem to be a good spirit in that it is forcing water out of Dead Bottom where it would otherwise be lost, but why does Waha fight it? The fight seems to be ongoing, with Bison Khans travelling to the Bison Khan and Rainman Grasslands to prove themselves khans.

Especially the Wicked Writher?

How stable are the Serpents, Dave? Do they always follow the same beds?

Note: no impala in this line up; the horse is one of the larger breeds.

Under normal conditions, in Sea Season, when it is at its greatest extent due to rainfall and snowmelt, the Zola Fel's main channel may be twelve metres deep and up to 400 metres wide. Judging from the illustration on the cover of River of Cradles, and allowing for perspective, this greatest extent won't reach the base of the walls of New Pavis. If it did, then the builders, dwarves who had lived there prior to the new city being founded, would not be very competent. In fact there's no sign of significant erosion above the road, so under normal circumstances, New Pavis won't flood. It then depends on just how fast the ice melts at the end of Windstop, and how high the river becomes at New Pavis. As there's significant room for the waters to flood, after the Zola Fel meets the Fenwash, the waters may not be significantly higher at Pavis. As other major tributaries are south of Pavis, including the Stormwater and Scritha the worst is likely to occur south of the city, and severely flood the New Bog.

I suspect it depends the altitude and temperature that moisture in the air is affected. There will probably be some snow, but not for long, and it's going to freeze solid on the ground in upland areas - which would be most of Sartar. I imagine there will be flow, for a time, especially for rivers and tributaries fed by springs at low elevations. With the 'recent' political turmoil in Nochet some people are going to be more 'equal' than others in gaining access to the supplies? Up in Sartar, moving any load by track or road will be very difficult; in Esrolia not so hard?

As MOB has noted, it's some way above the normal waterline. There will be a serious flood at the north of Old Pass as the walls of the old city constrain and funnel the flow: a real maelstrom at the Lunar Bridge, and the waters might reach the eastern walls of New Pavis before subsiding.

I suspect because: It's geographically different: not uplands and closer to the edge of the event. There's a major difference in elevation, and, as in the rest of the year, sea temperatures are going to moderate temperatures. The currents haven't been affected, and a warm sea will warm the nearby land.