Scott A

Here's my take on the various other spells implied by Enhance Int. They're roughly balanced against the spirit magic spells.

Enhance STR

[Air][Summon]
2 Points
Touch, Passive, Temporal
This spell temporarily increases the STR of the target by 1. Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell increases the target’s STR by +1. Thus, if the spell’s strength is increased to 5, it adds +3 to the target’s STR for the duration of the spell. This spell can increase the target’s STR beyond species maximum

Enhance DEX

[Water][Summon]
2 Points
Touch, Passive, Temporal
This spell temporarily increases the DEX of the target by 1. Every 4 levels of strength added to the spell increases the target’s DEX by +1. Thus, if the spell’s strength is increased to 9, it adds +3 to the target’s DEX for the duration of the spell. This spell can increase the target’s DEX beyond species maximum

Enhance CON

[Earth][Summon]
2 Points
Touch, Passive, Temporal
This spell temporarily increases the CON of the target by 1. Every 4 levels of strength added to the spell increases the target’s CON by +1. Thus, if the spell’s strength is increased to 9, it adds +3 to the target’s CON for the duration of the spell. This spell can increase the target’s CON beyond species maximum

Enhance SIZ

[Dark][Summon]
2 Points
Touch, Passive, Temporal
This spell temporarily increases the SIZ of the target by 1. Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell increases the target’s SIZ by +1. Thus, if the spell’s strength is increased to 5, it adds +3 to the target’s SIZ for the duration of the spell. This spell can increase the target’s SIZ beyond species maximum. This spell does not, however, increase the size of whatever the target is wearing. A target wearing restrictive clothing or armor may suffer damage or be incapacitated, at the GM’s discretion.

Enhance MP

[Moon][Summon]
2 Points
Touch, Passive, Temporal
This spell temporarily increases the maximum magic points of the target by 1. Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell increases the target’s max MP by +1. Thus, if the spell’s strength is increased to 5, it adds +3 to the target’s max MP for the duration of the spell. This spell does NOT provide any additional MP at the time of casting, but MP recovery rates are based upon the new maximum. Any MP left over the maximum when this spell expires remain, but do not regenerate. 

 
It is a source of great frustration to lunar sorcerers that they have been unable to create a true Enhance POW spell, despite great efforts. Unfriendly traditions point to this failure as proof of the moon rune’s lesser status.

I like that, between Rogue Wave and Create Wall of Fire, sorcerers are absolute terrors in in anti-ship combat.

At present, the only Sorcerers that are actually detailed enough to play RAW out of the book are Lhankor Mhy sages, which work more than ok in my book. I mean, have you *looked* at Logician? It's crazy good!

Shamen are Rune Master level characters, on par with Rune Priests or Rune Lords.  They aren't equivalent to starting sorcerers any more than an assistant shaman is. It's true that there's currently no Rune Master level of status that a pure sorcerer can aspire to, but that's not really a balance concern, and will presumably show up in future supplements and/or fan material.

15 hours ago, davecake said:

To be honest, not only do I ignore the rule about spirit magic reducing Free INT, but I generally remove the whole idea of Free INT. I'm not really sure what it adds to the game any more. Even once you take it away, sorcerers are still quite limited as magicians, generally slow casters, and going through so many magic points, and so on. 

 

I'd strongly recommend keeping the rule where INT acts as a cap on how many MP a sorcerer can pump into intensifying a spell. Otherwise they're only really limited by available MP, and can abuse their uniquely long durations/ranges even harder than they currently can.

38 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Having played several sorcerors with RQIII (and created one with RQG), I both agree and disagree on this point: Scores are higher, skills are less numerous, but runes and techniques are few at creation and difficult and long to learn. What I feel a disadvantage for sorcery users compared to other characters (at system, not setting level) is that INT is a very important stat because of free INT, but INT does not matter for magic category bonus, contrary to RQIII.

Kloster

I kind of like the idea of house-ruling that a character can choose the higher of INT or POW to provide the Magic Skills category bonus that POW currently does. Makes INT a little more broadly useful. 

Alternately just adding another row where INT acts like CHA.

As is, a starting wizard with 15 SIZ and free INT could fly for a week.

The fly spell is all and all much better than its rune equivalent, which I feel breaks setting convention. Sorcerers should struggle to be better flyers than Orlanthi.

At the minimum I'd reduce the strength to SIZ tradeoff drastically to  1:2, 1:1, or even 4:3. I also don't like the use of a rune in place of a skill check. Orlanthi get away with that because they're channeling a god, sorcerers should have to learn it the hard way.

Sorcerers can "forget" spells, then recall them later with a meditation session. It's a bit unclear whether forgotten spells count towards the INT cap, but I think that they don't.

57 minutes ago, Manu said:

The reason a PC receive 3 RP, is sthat he sacrificed during he youth 2 POW for Orlanth (on top if the initiation). He could easily use these POW for Donandar?

I was thinking of 1 RP minimum for Orlanth, the rest for the other God (here Donandar).

Sure, that's perfectly reasonable.

It'd also be fine to let the PC initiate only to Donandar, if they wanted to. Sure it'd be unusual, but PCs are exceptional.

They would get three RP from Orlanth, and sacrifice X POW to get X RP from Donandar.

Next trick: Hordes of elementals.

I'm assuming that we're using a min-maxed sorcerer with 24 INT and have enough spare MP lying around for our needs.

1. Master Truth, Spirit, Summon, Command, and your target elemental rune.
2. Locate a suitable target elemental. This is the trickiest bit, actually, since the core book doesn't have any spirit sight sorcery spells. You might even have to (gasp) cooperate with a barbarian.
3. Get within range, and cast Identify Otherworld Entity from a safe distance. Learn your target's true name and power. Alternately, you can try summoning it and overcoming its POW, then resummoning it for a longer duration when once you've learned its true name.
4. Cast Summon Elemental. With 23 points of free INT, we can summon a small elemental for four years (+5 strength, +18 duration), a medium elemental for two weeks (+11 strength, +12 duration), or a large elemental for six hours (+15 strength, +6 duration). This is obviously a spell that benefits from increasing your free INT.

So, yeah, a suitably motivated wizard could have dozens of small elementals following him around at any given time. The same technique works even better for other spirits, as well, since RAW you don't need to overcome POW if you know the spirit's true name. Our example wizard could have *any* spirit he knows the name of obeying him for 128 years! 😮

The secret to being an effective wizard is to be a min-maxing bastard. To quote myself from the facebook group:

Quote

Step 1) Have a wizard with high INT, and a mastery of at least Fire and Summon.

Step 2) Have a source of extra MP, like a crystal, enough so that you can cast full INT spells

Step 3) Bootstrap your way up to a higher INT using Enhance INT. I think it's possible for a 20 INT character to get +4 INT for a year at a time with enough fiddling.

Step 4) Cast buffs at your full INT in MP with long duration. Boon of Kargan Tor is particularly nasty, since you can do things like give weapons +4d6 damage for 12 hours, or +2d6 damage for years.

Step 5) Repeat step 4 as often as MP allows.

I elided a lot of fiddly details (eg, avoiding learning spirit magic), but that's one of the better paths to wizardly power.

2 hours ago, creativehum said:

Right.

The rule is unambiguous on p. 314

The rule found on p. 194 is also unambiguous.

The two unambiguous rules contradict each other.

i know I'm being a pill about this... but this is a pain in the ass.

I'm not seeing a contradiction. The rule on 194 is clearly the same rule as on 314, with a clarification added for how it interacts with the SR readiness table on 193, which reads "Each magic point used +1."

4 hours ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

Does the MP used on Heal Wound not count as "boosting"? The spell says "The caster must simultaneously spend magic points equal to the points to be healed" which sounds as though they don't count towards the casting time. (Psullie said this above).

It increases the casting time. The rule is unambiguous here: "If more than 1 magic point is used to boost a Rune magic spell, or otherwise increase its effects, 1 strike rank is added for each additional magical point after the first." The bolded bit there is the catchall that handles this case.

As for whether or not you can combine unengaged movement with casting a long spell, I'd say RAW doesn't allow it, but MGF does.

The larger question of whether or not you can move and then cast a rune spell in the same round is likewise a bit ambiguous. I'd personally rule that you can, because it seems more fun and dynamic that way.

A simple house rule would be to change how Sacred Places work. Instead of providing a static bonus, Sacred Places would place a maximum limit on how much sacrificing MP improves one's worship roll. I'd suggest the following:

• No sacred place: +10%
• Shine: +30%
• Minor temple: +50%
• Major temple: +90%
• Great temple: Unlimited

Additionally, I'd rule that Rune Masters ignore this restriction entirely when worshiping their god.

For Great Trolls and the like, I'll personally house-rule it so that their Rune Lord CHA threshold equals [Max CHA - Number of CHA dice]. So 12 and 6 for great trolls and Tusk Riders, respectively.

I think the CHA requirement is meant to be the rule. Any cult that doesn't specifically mention a different CHA requirement is meant to require the 18 CHA.

Remember that one of the way for CHA to increase is to lead a successful battle. Successful warlords are practically rolling in CHA.

On 7/30/2018 at 9:31 AM, styopa said:

While we're at it, it would be nice if it was specified about what "Rune Lord" status *specifically* means across other contexts: for example, is an Adept sorcerer a "rune lord" equivalent?  How about Blueface the Shaman?  (It's relevant for things like the Peace spell.)

My opinion is that Rune Lords means Rune Priest or Rune Lord (or actual bonified Heroes, which is its own kettle of fish). After all, it's the god that makes a Rune Lord what they are, not the person.

Yeah, that makes sense. In general I don't mind if players at my table take a few extra "heroic" occupational / cult bonuses. I think all the characters in Selkana's Saga got a few tweaks like that.

p. 48, the Maidstone Archer's Multimissile doesn't have its variable level listed

p. 176, the "She That Strikes from Afar" writeup mentions Mindlink, which isn't in either the core book or the bestiary

1 hour ago, Zodgrod said:

Hello,
Having just converted some "RQ2.5" characters playing Eleven Lights over to the new RQG, got a bit confused about Rune Magic...especially summons:

We have a character who has Summon Air Elemental.  He's got 3 Rune Points dedicated to in Orlanth Adventurous as a very novice adventurer.

1. Does he really have to cast X level Summon followed immediately by Command Cult Spirit for 2 Rune Points to control said Elemental?  This seems to be the explicit instructions in most parts of the rules but Summon Elemental seems to imply that control for the summoner is automatic.

Yeah, he has to cast command cult spirit. Summon Elemental explictly says that "Once summoned, an elemental acts according to its nature and cult affiliation, unless an appropriate Command Cult Spirit spell is cast and the elemental’s POW overcome by the caster"

1 hour ago, Zodgrod said:

2. I (the GM) was planning on having the same PC roll up the stats for the Elemental the first time he summoned one from each size category.  Thus, eventually he'd establish a "stable" of 3 elementals  - assuming he acquired the ability to cast Summon Large Air (ex: as a Storm Voice).  Any flaws in my logic?  How are the rest of you handling this?

That sounds fine. I'd let the player summon new elementals if he wants to.

1 hour ago, Zodgrod said:

3. Number 2 made me think of a more fundamtal question: when a character sacrifices a point of power to gain a rune point and chooses to "learn" a cult variable spell (ex.  Summon XYZ), I had presumed that he was learning a variable version of the spell.  Thus he could cast it at whatever level he chose once he'd gained access to it.  Is this as intended?

Yes, that's how it's intended to work with rune spells in general. Summon Elemental is a bit of an exception, because the your cult and subcult can put a limit on the size of elemental you can summon. Orlanth Thunderous initiates can summon up to large elementals, while other orlanth subcults can only go up to medium, if I recall correctly.

Triple post, but oh well

Quote

Dispel and Dismiss target the intensity of a spell, which appears to mean the sum of magic points or twice the number of rune points put into the spell, or the points of Free INT required to cast this sorcery spell.

Actually, reading the spells closely,  Dispel Magic's wording is inconsistent with Dismiss Magic with regards to sorcery. Dispel Magic says that it overcomes the sorcery's intensity while Dismiss Magic explicitly overcomes "only the spell strength of sorcerous spells." I strongly suspect that this is an editing oversight, and that Dispel Magic should treat sorcery the same way that Dismiss Magic does. 

Alright, daytrip with the family over, let's get back to the really important things in life

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Let's use a 5 point Dispel Magic on a person having a 2 point Shield and a 4 point Protection. What happens? Does the person casting the Dispel have to boost the spell with one MP in order to overcome the Shield's Countermagic effect?

Shield's countermagic  effect effects thing that are 1 "point" above it's countermagic  (I'm going to try be consistent and call this Spell Points, or SP.). Rune magic has 2 SP per RP spent, so therefore the Dispel Magic's 10 spell points would overwhelm the shield's 4 SP countermagic and go on to dispel the 6 total SP of spells protecting the target.

A better question is what happens when a Dispel Magic 1 hits a Shield 1. RAW, the shield would just counter it, since they're the same SP.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

A sorcerer casts a 6 point Neutralize Spirit Magic on the person. What is the resistance to this spell?

Again, the spell's 6 SP beats the shield's 4 SP and would pass through untouched. It ignores the shield after that, pitting it's 6 SS vs the protection's 4 SS on the resistance table.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Let's use an 8 point Neutralize Magic on that same target aiming at the Protection, and succeed with the resistance roll, rolling 40%. Will the target still benefit from the Shield's Protection effect? From the Shield's Countermagic effect?

Yes. Only protection would be neutralized.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Would a resistance roll of 69% still succeed?

No. The cutoff for 6 vs 4 on the resistance table is 60%

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Countermagic gets eliminated when overcome by another spell for more than one point exceeding its strength, including Shield. On the other hand, Shield can be upped by Countermagic (combined with a sufficient boost) in order to stack the effects. Shield also stacks with Protection.

I personally let characters ignore their own countermagic/shield when casting on themselves to avoid just this sort of headache.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

What happens when someone casts Countermagic on a person or other entity under the benefit of- Protection (or Spirit Screen)? Does a 1 point Protection prevent the recipient from receiving a 4 point Countermagic?

It's unclear exactly how incompatible spirit/rune magic spells are supposed to be handled. As I said above, I'd probably just ape the incompatible spell rules from sorcery. So, in this case, the countermagic would suppress the protection. I'd also require that any unwilling target would have to have his POW overcome.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Now lets add one point of Shield to that one point of Protection, and cast the same 4 point Countermagic on the recipient. What spells are in effect?

Shield gets overwhelmed, so as above.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Countermagic can be a nasty spell when cast on a combatant who has just gone down in a combat, preventing cheap Healings to reactivate them in a hurry (or to avert death). Not quite a Seal Wound, but potentially as deadly.

Huh, yeah, that's true! A neat trick, that.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

A 3 point Dispel Magic hits a person affected by Neutralize Spirit Magic (Strength 2 Duration 2, i.e. 2 points of additional magic - but Intensity 3, or is it autmatically 2 points because of the spell cost plus 2 points for the added intensities?).

Answering the parenthetical: Dismiss Magic clearly spells out that only the spell strength of sorcery needs to be overcome, so 2.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Is this enough to remove the spell? Is it enough to target a specific other spell active on the target after winning the resistance roll? If not, how about a 5 point spell: Does it have to overcome the effect of Neutralize Spirit Magic first?

I fail to see why Neutralize Spirit Magic would matter. The Dismiss Magic would work as normal, with Neutralize Spirit Magic being treated like any other spell.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Somebody casts a Countermagic on a Berserker. Does the effect stack with the 2 points already provided by the Berserker spell?

It's not 100% clear, but I'd personally houserule it so that works like (and stacks with) Shield. So a character could theoretically have countermagic from Shield, Berserker, and Countermagic all at the same time.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Assuming that the caster can overcome the magic points of a person under Berserker influence, what effect will Logical Clarity have on that person?

It's not explicitly laid out, but it sounds like it would use the same rules as Madness. Alternately, you could rule them incompatible spells and use that set of rules.

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

What happens when a stronger version of a non-stackable spell encounters a pre-existing weaker version of the spell? Like e.g. Enhance INT?

It's not explicitly spelled out, but it makes sense that duplicate spells fall under the " Incompatible Spells" rules on pg. 387. I'd also say that that's the way it works for all magic: any duplicate spell gets suppressed by the more powerful spell for the duration of the overlap.

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

Dispel and Dismiss target the intensity of a spell, which appears to mean the sum of magic points or twice the number of rune points put into the spell, or the points of Free INT required to cast this sorcery spell (including points prepared in an inscribed spell through sacrifice of POW). Does this ignore magic points used to boost a spell (like Axe Trance or Sword Trance)?

Sword trance describes those MP as a boost, which means it falls under the boost rules, which I read to not be counted for defending against dismiss magic and the like since it doesn't add "points" or "intensity" to a spell. I assume it works the same way for Heal Wound and the like.

Edit: Clarified the second point