Verderer

Rust, it was probably Manicheans I meant when I said Zoroastrians. Rosen, from what I have read on the Cathars, I'd say they had many similar elements with Gnosticism in their theology. For example the dualistic view on God, the evil nature of the material world, the means of reaching personal salvation / divinity for the select few etc. Of course, there were many variations within Cathar beliefs too. It seems Catharism had its roots in Bogomilism which in turn had a lot in common with Paulicianism and Manichaeism which in turn resembled Zoroastrianism and Gnosticism in some significant ways. I dunno if these heresies can be said to form a direct lineage, but they all include some basic tenets which look similar enough for me. And it's remarkable how these features are carried from the Asia all the way to the Western Europe in some form or another, and indeed endured for many centuries. It is also intriguing to think what Christianity would be like today, if the early Church fathers had not suppressed some of these 'heresies'. I intend to link sorcery in some ways to this Gnostic Allegiance, in the same way I will link RQ Divine magic with the established religions (Catholism/Orthodoxism/Islam/Juadism). So in some ways my sorcery will contain a divine element, but it comes from the divine nature of the casting individual, not from the Heaven/Hell/Churches. So when casting sorcery, the caster is in essence enacting his/her divine nature. And I could see Alchemism as en extension of this, freeing the divine self from the restrictions of the (evil?) material world. Obivously, I need to work on these ideas some more, and would welcome any input. EDIT: Heh, all this reminds me of the fun Chaosium card game Credo! have to play it again sometime soon.

Yes, Gnostics certainly were rather scarce at the time, but there were certain heresies which have much in common with gnosticism, I am told. Mainly Albigensians/Cathars in the Europe, And they were considered a large enough a threat during the 13th century, that a crusade was required. And there would the Gnostics of Ethiopia, and the Zarahustrans of the Middle East, if I recall correctly? And not to forget, there would have been forbidden/hidden knowledge from the ancients in the form of books etc. Think along the lines of Simon Magus and Hermes Trismegistus. Anyways, my intention is to include various other heresies under the banner of gnosticism. In my game it should have an appeal to the individuals anyways, not large masses as such. So Gnosticism wouldn't require/varrant a church. I hope the mysticism and individualism would appeal to the sorcerously inclined PCs. I feel Gnostics (and some other heretics) deserve a real divine power, as to make it a true threat to the (Catholic) Church. And something to toy with is the possiblity that Templars might have adapted such heretical thinking into their version of Christianity (unless you decide they were unjustly accused, as they most likely were.) It would be an opportunity to make the Templars the 'bad guys' from the catholic point of view, if you're so inclined. EDIT: and we shouldn't forget the Saints either, their worship is an interesting part of the Catholic faith. Perhaps even some Major saints would deserve an Allegiance? This type of thing will make religion a rather complex and convoluted issue, but I feel that is entirely approprite!

Exactly, that's the sort of thing I am after. And the conflicts wouldn't be limited to inter-church relations: what happens when a character has conflicting allgiances, for example Heaven versus Church (Catholic)? In a situation where such a conflict might arise, the character has to choose which way to go, and this will have long reaching consequences. Will he endanger his/her salvation to gain power within the church? Or a character might start with both in harmony (an idealist, no doubt), and the drift might happen slowly, until one day the character might become persecuted by the same church that originally offered succour. Or Choosing Heaven over church, he becomes a hermit, or a saint in making? Lots of possiblities, which can be played out.:innocent:

This is getting better and better, thanks for the links, bobapple! I think I may be able to use the Val-du-Loup pretty much as it is, and the crusader material is also useful, even if it does handle somewhat earlier events. :thumb: I have been thinking more of the allegiances thing, and I am inclined to make things somewhat more complex than the black and white Heaven-Hell juxtaposition. I am thinking firstly that I would add a third divine allegiance which I might call Gnosis, or perhaps Aeons? I have to brush up my knowledge of Gnosticism, and it would been good to come up with an explanation how all the three might exist simultaneously. Then, in addition to the divine entities there would be the Churches who act as intermediaries between the divine and mortals. In this role some of the divine has brushed on the churches themselves, and they have become Powers on their own, even if they are not the source itself. So they too can be targets of allegiances. Sometimes churches might work independently of, or even in opposition to, their divine 'parent'. So this might explain why a Pope might commit the most unchristian and cruel acts, and yet remain the focus the Christian world and be able to use divine powers. And why an individual might be most holy and perfom wondrous miracles without the blessing of the Church. All this is kind of hazy and random in my head, but I hope you get what I am trying to say here? Does this make any sense?

Heh, yeah, but I bet the pagans didn't feel too good?! I spotted the BRP Alchemy rules in the download section, and will certainly give them a go. That reminded me of an old computer game called Darklands which was set in 15th century central Europe. It was pretty cool, with alchemy, knights, priests, witches etc. I want to do something similar in this 13th century environment. I will read more about the MRQ divine magic system. Thanks again!

Hey, that sounds great! I will be looking forward to the new book. Ordered my PDF copy of Stupor Mundi a moment ago, so that should keep me busy for some time. Also ordered some historical books on the period from Amazon, found a couple that sound really interesting (in addition to the usual Crusades and Knights histories). Pity that the few English biographies of Frederick II seem hard to get... I guess I can do without any more new RQ books, and it's pretty easy to create the professions yourself. Also, I got many Chaosium's Pendraken RPG books to draw inspiration from (even if they are Arthurian Romance: large parts of it are taken from high medieval period anyways.) One thing I intend to take from Pendraken and which is included in the BRP optional rules, is the opposed character traits. We've always liked the idea. Rust, I guess I want to narrow the knight profession down to the most basic, noble cavalry fighter type, so it has a more definite place within the profession structure. Those who wear the spurs and carry the sword, sort of thing. And then let the noble be the courtier type, the soldier be the professional mercenary, and and let warrior cover any tribal and other less organised fighter types. What about allegiances and magic? I havent' decided whether to include magic or not. Certainly I want to include situations where the PC might encounter situations which they might consider magical or miraculous, especially with crusader themes. But will I actually use a magic system, I dunno yet. Same thing goes with religion, does it work or not? If I do use magic, it will be more subtle and not so much fireballs etc. For allegiances heaven and hell would seem obvious to Christian characters, but then I should also include other religions, especially Islam and Judaism. Gnostics and heretics, certainly.

Thanks for the advice, Rosen and Vile! It sounds promising, I am pretty experienced gamer, but it has been years (more like 15 years) since we played RQ. BRP is somewhat new to me, except that I have been CoC keeper for decade or two. So that helps with BRP, and ties in nicely with Freeport which has a mythos element in it. For Stupor Mundi, I have been thinking about professions and knights. Knight doesn't really exist in RQ or BRP, but there is the noble, soldier and warrior. How would you advice me handle knights, are they nobles or soldiers/warriors? My instict is that they might be bit of both, depending on their background. They might be courtier types or professional soldiers, and so on. I am thinking of making up some new professions to capture that special medieval feel. Has anyone made such specific professions, in addition to the ones Rosen mentioned in SM? And Rosen, SM doesn't include professions for Teutonic knights or Hospitalers?

Hi folks, I have recently bough my copy of BRP system, and I am looking for interesting campaign worlds to play in. I got lots of ideas, but for now I am going to try two settings: first of all I got Green Ronin's Freeport books (piratey fantasy) which were originally meant for D20, but the latest copy of the city sourcebook is systemless. Which is nice, as I have had great reservations about starting a d20 game. Now I am hoping they will eventually make BRP/Runequest companion for the setting (they're in the process of writing companions for various systems, I hear.) As it is, I intend to to use Runequest Pirates books to cover the pirate side of things, and fill out the rest by applying BRP and RQ rules. I got Avalon Hills 3rd edition RQ rules, by the way. I assume it won't be too difficult to combine rules from RQ and BRP? I am thinking professions and magic mostly? I know Mongoose RQ has a separate magic sourcebook, is it very much different from the RQ 3rd edition rules? The second campaign I got interested is Stupor Mundi for RQ. I'd like to GM a historical campaing such as this, with crusader knights, saracens etc. Anyone tried this campaign with BRP? Does the the campaign book contain campaign specific professions, or do you just apply RQ (or BRP) professions? What about sorcery and divine magic, does the book contain its own spells, or does it use RQ ones? Do you use magic at all? I'd love to hear your thoughts on using BRP for these games, and any tips you could provide would be appreciated!