Dissolv

My first campaign was a very long running RQ2 one that got well into Rune levels and beyond. (Still waiting for those Heroquest rules guys!) The Humakti made Rune Priest reasonably quickly, but was known mainly for having a gift of learning every skill that he didn't know to 40%. Best thing anyone has ever done for a character in any of my long running campaigns, as that wound up catapulting him into a character that eventually knew every common skill well over 70%, thanks to aggressively going after every skill check possible. He was in particular good at oration and fast talk, particularly for a death worshiper. In combat he was mainly a fairly normal character of the time, who stabbed things with his broadsword, focused on Shield spell to stay alive, would cast Truesword against tough armor, and if something very large threatened the party, like a Giant, he would attempt a Sever Spirit on it. Against obviously magical foes he would back the Sever Spirit with considerable power, like 8, to ensure that he punched through any magical protection. Typically the role was 50/50 against the enemy champion/leader, but that's great odds right there. If nothing else he got a divine intervention out of the way early. He did eventually die -- Lunars got him IIRC, and like all Humakti, that was the end of the character. A strict enforcement of that one proviso makes being a Humakt follower a major tightrope walk for the player, and honestly, although sad, I think he was happy to not have to walk it after the characters death. The player continued on happily for several years afterwards using mainly a shaman. Having highly lethal combat was a key element to the tension that the player experienced, so obviously if the players roll up a serious death dealer of a character, they must be called on to undertake equally dangerous tasks.

I'd say the rationale is that Humakt is the god of death, not the god of staying alive! He isn't a berserker type, so okay, you get to parry. But should he also enhance your defense so highly? I'm not so clear about that. If you see him as god of swords, dueling, and general lightsabering, then yes. You go full on"use the force" and they just are that unstoppable short of missile, Rune magic, or dispels. If you decide that you want them to be able to strike down the enemy with almost no recourse, then the attack covers the bill.....the extra parries is just flat better than it was in RQ2 due to the parry changes. Either way it shakes down mechanically (for your Glorantha I mean), I find that the mechanical underpinnings of Runequest are a HUGE part of what makes the background appealing and "alive". Heroquest guys can feel free to disagree with me, but I'm very much an old school "Ruric Runespear" kind of GM. The players have always learned the rules system as a fundamental part of the game, and those who were clever with it excelled. The yin and yang of the wild and outrageous fantasy setting mixed with the hard and crunchy -- and predictable -- rules is the major draw. Players don't just gain levels and somehow become able to blow past opponents that halted them a few game sessions ago. They have to actively learn and utilize the game to progress. If a Humakt -- or Yanafal Tarnils is that empowered by Sword Trance, then so be it. But it is definitely something that in-game individuals would be aware of, and take steps against. Which logically will make any Humakt worshiper a big walking target, as well as scare off some of the weaker challengers, like outlawed bandits. Basically anything intelligent will prefer a non-melee solution to that particular problem, which is sensible even if the Humakti doesn't cast that spell, but this version of RQ clearly establishes a no-melee zone where only the ill informed or overconfident go to die. And how do you combat a massed unit of Yanafal Tarnils worshiping initiates? Combat, like the role play for that matter, has always been three dimensional in Glorantha. Combating such a unit would be well nigh impossible for most any ordinary unit of melee soldiers, and Humakt is not worshiped in great enough numbers to counter with like forces. Reading this thread and thinking about it, I'm inclined to run with the original ruling, and let the world adjust as it makes sense. That means more dispel magics, more lightnings, more poison arrows boosted by speedart, and many, many more befuddles and demoralizes. Frankly my players have the art of keeping their berserk storm bull followers alive down to an science, so they wouldn't really see this as any different. A Lhankor Mhy initiate may not be great shakes in a combat situation, but he can always judiciously keep the big guns going while waiting for the situation to once again need his painfully earned skills and wisdom. Heck, buffing and debuffing have always been reasonable answers to the GM's question of what are you doing this round. "I'm parrying the troll attacking me and casting a dispel 6 on THAT THING!" It all works either way so long as everyone understands the rules. What is at stake is more the shared vision of how we see Glorantha combat working, given the changes to both Rune Magic and parry.

If it boosted attack percentage and not parry, that would solve the problem and still be very powerful, no?

Mad Knight Troll skeletons. Black Horse Troop. Figures I don't even know where to find anymore, but originally find by going through links from Foundry Miniatures. Better figures should come available sooner or later, but demon cavalry in bronze age gear is surprisingly hard to find. Grazelander Shaman riding a spirit horse (he's blue). This is a Foundry figure from their Old West collection. There is a VERY limited number of non-rifle armed Indians that can be used, but they are excellent models. https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/old-west?page=8

This sounds like a winner, although it isn't clear to me what, if any divine magic might be appropriate vs. access to sorcery from the cult. I can definitely see major artifacts and potent sorcerers at the upper levels of the Troop. But that wasn't totally where I was going with this. If the rider is just a competent warrior, and dependent on the Black Horse for serious bite, then a small detachment would indeed be a highly manageable problem for some competent PC's. I'm not so sure about the use of iron in quantity, mainly because that should be something noteworthy enough to have been recorded. I would rather suspect that any magical, or spiritual defense would come from the banners/unit level magic. I mean, how do you invade hell without a means to defend against spirits? Seems like that should be covered somehow, although it may not be the responsibility of the individual trooper beyond typical power sacrifice. The presence of sorcery I still can't shake mentally for some reason. This may also be the only way for a non-Lunar, non-Lhankor Mhy sorcery presence to make any sense in the Pass region, which may be one of the reasons I want it to be so, as opposed to established lore, which is very vague about particulars.

Well I mean, that's a good initial start. But that's pretty basic for something from the legendary Black Horse Troop. The problem comes defining the magic and general power levels of the riders. I can definitely see Sir Ethilrist being a total @#$@#$@#$ of a boss and insisting on a superior cut of recruit, even if it kills a few, so a couple of stat point bumps makes sense. But does the typical troop member use only spirit magic, or are there priests present (and temples in Muse Roost??) to various deities? Humakt I can totally see due to the "descended from Arkat", and description in the Guide on Vol.1, p. 186. "Grim, fatalistic..." But they all use Lances, so a couple of the geas' might get in the way, and I'm not too sure that they care that much about honor. More importantly it is never mentioned in all the various references I have tracked down, so maybe not. But can it really all be just spirit magic, or do they retain a sorcererous tradition? Or maybe is this a widely varied group, magically? Local recruits seem likely to come from Dragon Pass, which means Spirit Magic as the most likely base. Even a last-chancer like someone outlawed and suffering cult spirits of retribution would have some spirit magic. But would Sir Ethilrist accept such a recruit? Are there taboo cults? Can the troop teach some sorcery? The guide is silent on these points. And then there is a more general question of how bad-assed are these guys? Right now, a group of twenty Grazelanders with firearrow spells and fast horses would kill more PC's than the stat block listed above. That's "just a guy", who happens to be on a Black Horse. A respectable fighter sure, but Glorantha combat is very three dimensional. However this is totally one way they might be. If the Rider is just a talented warrior with some spirit magic, then he would still have the advantage of prepping twice as fast -- because the Horse will be casting along with the Rider. Then in combat, the fact that they put out three attacks a round (rider attack, Bite and Claw) will overwhelm low and mid level PC's pretty handily, due to the amount of damage each hit might do. But a Rune level party will torch down even numbers with pure brute Rune magic, even with no Heroquesting to negate the Black Steeds. A Humakti Rune Priest PC with a two handed Truesworded Greatsword and Sword Trance cast will inflict a TON of damage parrying the natural weapons of Black Horse, and won't much notice the 5 points of armor. He'll make mincemeat out of this proposed version of a trooper plus his Black Horse. And never mind the whole fact that you can get multiple infantrymen against a single cavalryman if they go shield wall, that's a straight up 1 PC versus Rider + Steed. On the other hand, if the BHT has a more significant magical tradition, especially one that may be unexpected and exotic, that can even things up more than a little! Or perhaps 20+ points of stored POW to toss around. This level of power may be unusual but one would expect a large group of say, Bison riders to be mainly initiates of Waha, with some spirit and Rune magic, and are also likely led by a Rune level leader, who is possibly a Storm Khan, or a shaman, or a Priest, and that person may have significant stored POW to help with a fight. Without a magical tradition, this version of the BHT has no means to counter a significant theistic attack, and will wind up playing the Indians in the PC's cowboy movie. I'm not totally sure if that is right.....or wrong.

Well, I do appreciate the reply. Looks like this remains a do-it-yourself area. Time to see what I can do with a mix of sorcery and spirit magic users on top of some Demon Steeds. I supposed I should leave this here as well:

I don't mind and actually like that there is a magic type that is ultra-crunchy. One of my long term players thrives on that sort of thing, and having options is always good. The problem is that a functioning sorcerer is not being presented with anything remotely close to normal human stats, or following the just laid down game rules. Instead, to make a plot work, the rules are immediately broken. This is giving me fits in my unanswered thread about the Black Horse troop, and really comes down to sorcery just not working as well as we want it to. Ironically I can't get the expected sorcery supplement to come soon enough, and at the same time want it to be play tested the heck out of.

Hey all, I was looking to use some Black Horse Troop as potential conflict villains, but got stuck trying to define them. Before I go off into "Your Glorantha May Vary", has there ever been a RQ:Gish compatible stab at a stat block for a reasonably generic representative of the Black Horse Troop prior to the Hero Wars? Not Sir Ethilrist, but a lower ranking member that the PC's might more reasonably interact with. And of course the Demon Horses are a big deal too but they are defined in the Bestiary on ppp 182-183, so not as much of a mystery these days. I was also under the impression that the Horses could use the Riders like an allied spirit, but they seem to only know spirit magic (I am totally giving them all demoralize!), but nothing is really noted about that in the Bestiary.

Thanks! I've been finishing up other projects (and RL, of course), and am ready to again churn out Glorantha figures. I am pretty sure that I used the same ironwindmetals store for the Companion cavalry on the Wyverns. Lances came from one of many places to get brass spears. https://store.ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=2892&osCsid=havgmgetle6u9u7t0qia8sub75 For my Bison Riders I had a whole bag of Old Glory Sarmatians on hand, so I used them: https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PRS-01 But if I were buying them, as opposed to utilizing what I had laying around, I might try for a different look. More Amer-Indy maybe? It gets hard once you get try to get more than a few figures, honestly. I do have some American Indians on horse that I was using for Grazelanders, but the bulk of them are not painted up, just one on foot and mounted for a Shaman PC. This is where it gets tricky. If you use American Indians for Grazelanders, say from here: https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WP-04 then you may not have enough figure differentiation left for the tribes in Prax. I mean, the buffalo is a big difference, but a lot of green stuff may be necessary. Inspiration here: https://bigredbat.blogspot.com/2016/06/battle-of-horn-gate.html This is why I have been really, really, really hoping that Mad Knight tosses out some Sable riders or such along with the foot figures. I'm very much into speed painting these days (I did the wyvern riders and Assassins yesterday and flocked and sealed them this morning, for example), and stopping for conversions and lots of green stuff dramatically slows me down. I greatly prefer to buy figures that already look the way that they should, but for Glorantha.....that's tough. Heck just trying to decide what "Lunars" should look like given their huge political disparity has been a massive issue.

Wyvern Riders. These were made with Ironwindmetal's wyverns plus some Companion Cavalry, I think also from that same same website. I find them a wonderful source of random figures. https://store.ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=7012&osCsid=1pemtgtipmp6rp377nika9t760 I also finally got around to painting the Mad Knight Lunar Assassins. So often I have threatened the players with such, now I can actually put them on the table.

It might be self balancing in a way. Every time he hauls back and "hassan-chop!"'s the first baddie, you have figure eyes will become very wide open on team bad guy, and every single point of magic is going to go flying at him. Also foes with Rune magic to be used "if they feel seriously threatened" should meet that criteria immediately. That's the kind of character you spend serious resources as a party to keep upright -- both because of what he can bring to a fight, and also because you have to in order to even have a chance of getting him through it. Normally I see it with Storm Bull worshipers confronting chaos. Everyone knows that they are going to go berserk, and start dumping all kind of magic, mainly protective, but also Bladesharp, healing, etc. en masse, to ensure that the most effective PC stays in the fight. A Humakt worshiper is much more able to defend himself than a Storm Bull berserker, but if he ever is slain, there's no coming back.

Borderlands is a great intro campaign. Beyond a doubt something that will help you and your players get acclimated to the weird stuff by introducing them element by element. Griffin Mountain is a huge sandbox, and also considered one of the greats, from any game system. Pavis and Big Rubble is much, much more than dungeon delving! In addition to the interplay between the many factions, you have various urban adventures for those so inclined (robbery, politics, social standing type interactions), gang rivalry, ventures out to the surrounding areas (many of which are covered in Borderlands, but also the Sun County stuff). The Big Rubble itself is a great "dungeon", but is really a post apocalyptic setting when you get down to it. The PC's may start out arrogantly to steal the resources of the massive fallen city, but the Pavis survivors had to live in here, hunted by trolls, hounded by chaos, with their backs against the wall for the entirety of the closing. It also is a nice microcosm of the Gloranthan elder races, as Trolls, Aldrymai, and Dwarves (via Flintnail) are present. Plus a strong connection with giants, nomads, some unique locations to explore and NPCs to meet. Basically it is a great adventure locale because you can do so much with the setting. Limiting it to a dungeon delve would not be doing it justice. I'm pretty sure this is why people keep coming back to it, despite the clear need for other regions being detailed. There is just always something new and interesting to get involved in.

I can't speak canonically, but I normally use these sorts of things to break the rules, not stay within them. For example a solider of the Lasdag Lions may have access to his own personal spirit/battle magic, plus a couple of points of Rune magic. Good for him, and right with the Main Rule book. But when formed up with his unit, after proper sacrifices, rituals, and other requirements have been met, he will benefit is "some other way". It may be sort of communal benefit more than personal, like perhaps his own power may be made available to enhance someone else's spell, kind of like the Sunspear concept, but it may also be additive, in the sense that maybe he gets some type of perk, like +10% sword skill while on the offensive, or +2 effective power when casting an offensive spell, or maybe even access to some type of Rune Magic that he is otherwise not able to cast. It could also be a summons, which I think the Lasdag Lions actually get -- the standard turns into a magical lion, or some other type of effect. However this is a community magic, and therefore should be greater than anything an individual has, short of a heroquest reward. It should be a rule-breaker for the good units, imo. The ad hoc ones maybe not so much. That also gives role play opportunities, such as a task for the PC's to steal the moon rock needed for the local Lunar unit to have some special power that the players fear will decimate their local resistance forces. Or they can quest for some type of power to enhance their militia force, a spirit, or a magic gift that works with the unit, probably under specific conditions, like defending the Tula, or maybe fighting Lunars only. This is something that the PC's would achieve, but would not get in their day to day adventuring. It would be the kind of magic that they bring to the community, instead of selfishly keep. Or if the PC's were really aggressive, they could try to both things at once. That's how I would run it (by which I mean am running it).

Cult in a pure sense, maybe not. But the individual priest who runs the place who has umpteen different cultural, familial, and possibly royal responsibilities may not be so pleased to see heavily armed murder hobos plop down in his hut. Especially if they demand priority treatment, like he is some kind of Starbucks barista. He is 100% likely to be busy, have trainees already, and as an important figure in the community, is likely to be overburdened with a multitude of tasks in the first place. In my campaigns, if the PC's lack close ties with a random priest or shaman, they pay out the nose. Often in the form of a dangerous or demanding task, since that seems to be what they mainly want to be doing anyway.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree on this one. I have never spent that much for just a pdf before, and it gave me pause, despite that being the main work that I had been looking forward to. Any insult is up to your own imagination.

Well, I'm glad that you have your preferred option.

I'm a lot more interested in information about the Pavis supplement. Although we do have a ton on Pavis already, every time someone puts something out in the area (like the Sun County material), it is always top notch. I'm not sure what there is exactly about this area that gets the creative juices going, but clearly people love to write about the setting. Heck, even Griselda is set in Pavis. Argrath gets his start in Pavis. It's like "everybody goes to Rick's" for adventurers.

There are several sagas to look into here. Two fast examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gísla_saga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grettis_saga There is also the core Argrath type "Lunars kicked me out" which you can find on the (help me out on the website guys, work blocks everything) Prince of Sartar web comic. Incomplete, but excellent. Basically a situation can be contrived where the PC's must be exiled to placate tribal norms, end a feud, or avoid Lunar reprisals. All of which possibly due to the PC's doing what the Ring asked of them in the first place. This would force the players to live off of their skills, so things like hunting, craft (wood), tracking, all suddenly become critical to PC survival. A deep understanding of the fatigue, starvation, poison, and other misc. rules is also key -- the GM should know them to start, but the PC's should pick them up by the end the hard way! Expect the PC's to have to discover a whole host of minor shrines, lesser places of worship, and local spirits that they would otherwise just trod past on their way to the Orlanth temple. Tons of juicy RP possibilities here, honestly. I had a PC in a Griffin Island campaign have to do something very much like this. He was forced to spend a winter on his own in the wilds, with nothing but a loincloth, a daggar, and a flint to start with. This was role played out over about six sessions, while everyone else was doing something else (or just training) in the meantime. After nearly freezing and starving to death, the character wound up with an astonishing range of "Tarzan" skills, and upon his return and triumphant re-donning of his metal armor and greatsword, he was almost a totally different character. The player too, was transformed by the experience, and never again role played quite the same way. I definitely recommend this type of adventure, you just have to emphasize all the things that society offers you which are now lost, force the PC's to struggle (and not just be murder bums!). Then they can either join a different society and have to navigate that type of outsider joins the tribe adventure, or you can make them totally suck it up and do a deep survival adventure, with the expectation that the PC's will return hardened and able to re-join society as a stronger force than ever before.

I knew that there would be someone dinging me on this :-( It isn't a matter of cheapskatedness. Fact of the matter, the larger works are much harder to read and work with in PDF format. Nearly impossible in a gaming setting, actually. I almost always have to print them out and bind them anyway. That means that I am spending a lot of $$$ over the PDF in the first place to get a substandard product, just so that I can carry it with me, and actually you know.....read it, much less use it dynamically as a storytelling tool. Even if just to use the pictures to show players not versed in Glorantha, or even just Bronze Age cultures and imagery. Which most are not. :-( There wasn't an option for print on demand, but I would have immediately jabbed it, even at $80. That would have been a better value in my opinion. Not bagging on the work the author did in any way. I haven't even read it yet. But I am totally, 100%, into dead tree versions for anything over say, 50 pages. As an option, I mean.

I have purchased all 5 and am waiting for the downloads now. I hesitated and then took a chance on the very expensive Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass -- for that price I would normally expect a book in print. I'll know if it was worth it when I am able to read it through.

Only the Bandit Ducks seem to be showing up just now. Was there a delay with the others?

I used the Old Glory figures with one or two exceptions for the leader types (I am no longer sure where I found them). The riders are Sarmatians, the armor meant to bone, and the Buffalo themselves are from the West Wind Cowboy line up. In retrospect I might have made the bases more Praxian, but the whole campaign was being run in Dragon Pass at the time. The bases also need more vegetation, but I got photo-happy before I finished them. https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ZCW-53

For larger hex bases, you are looking for Litko. https://litko.net/collections/miniature-bases-and-base-bottoms?_=pf&pf_t_shape=baseshape%3AHexagonal They have an impressive range of shapes and sizes.

I can currently see the photos, but I could when I posted originally as well. Weird.