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creativehum

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Posts posted by creativehum


  1. 17 hours ago, redmoongoddess said:

    That and "Heroquest Voices" for a more "personal" prospective of the world, but note it's been retconned...a lot.

    Can anyone open this up a bit? (Just the other day I was wondering, "How have the HeroQuest Voices changed over the years?")

    • From what version to what version? 
    • Retcooned in what way?

    Thanks!

     


  2. I wanted to thank everyone for this thread. I learned a lot about Glorantha... and I learned a few things about the people who posted on it as well.

    Of all the posts I read, this one resonated the most for me, not only in terms of its logic, but it seemed to explain the sometimes over-the-top arguments that several people made:

    On 5/29/2020 at 12:40 AM, Jeff said:

    Greg's favorite depended on whose point of view he was writing from at the time. Mine as well. All of the Gloranthan cultures have something really interesting, admirable, noble, whatever about them. And also something really awful, destructive, ignorant, whatever about them. They are mortals, after all.

    Greg's genius in creating Glorantha, as far as I can tell, is creating cultures and conflicting points of view that people can line up alongside and be utterly certain the other side is wrong, wrong wrong --- just like the fictional people living in these fictional cultures. Neither side is obviously right or obviously wrong (except to the folks who know the other side is wrong, wrong, wrong) and that is no easy feat!

    I also want to thank everyone who discussed the White Moon Movement. I had skimmed the name a few times in my reading. But I hadn't really soaked in the details. The fact that there is a movement that is splitting the Lunar Way and the Lunar Empire makes the the Lunars a hell of a lot more interesting to me. I really appreciate being pointed in that direction.

    Again, thank you everyone. I learned a lot. And Glorantha is even more impressive to me than it was before I read the posts on this thread. Thank you.

    • Like 3

  3. Hello smart people.

    Let us assume a group of adventurers have come across a ruined abbey in the middle of nowhere. They find a valuable bell in the fourth story belfrey of a chapel. Now they want to remove that bell. 

    How complicated would it be to remove the bell. What sorts of tools, manpower, and time might be required?

    This has nothing to do with Pendragon. But I thought, "Where would be the best source of knowledgeable people to sort this out?" And my first thought was this forum.


  4. 32 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

    lol. "Again", you say. ;) I don't even know what that is! :)

    Here you go.

    Of note, Nick Brooke developed the Concept and was the Project Manager, as well as writing several of the pieces.

    Quote

    The rich cultural backdrop of the world of Glorantha has always been one of its greatest strengths, keeping gamers fascinated for over twenty-five years. One of the many ways in which this was explored in the former RuneQuest game was through short narratives for major cultures and races detailing “What the Priest Says” and “What My Father Told Me.” Pithy, often witty, and always insightful, these narratives were a popular feature of the game and were a quick, easy way to introduce new players to peoples and beliefs of this game world.

    Now Glorantha is coming to a new generation of players with the release of HeroQuest, the game of epic roleplaying. This book is one of a range of game aids. It contains these in- troductory narratives for all ten homelands described in those rules, as well as for seven other peoples and races. Further- more, as a sample for those who do not yet own HeroQuest, HeroQuest Voices contains one of those homelands (Teshnos)

    at the end as an example of how the cultures are presented in the game in an easy-to-use format.

    Although some of these narratives have appeared before, they have been updated to reflect development of the world since their original publication. Additionally, project manager Nick Brooke has assembled several new pieces written by many of today’s key Gloranthan authors, including David Dunham (co-creator of the King of Dragon Pass computer game), Mark Galeotti, and Greg Stafford himself. Illustrations by Gloranthan artists old and new show sample members of these peoples.

    We hope you enjoy these narratives. From the brutal dir- ectness of the nomadic Bison Rider to the elegant mysteries of the Kralori, from the uplifting hymns of the Esvulari clergyman to the deep—in every sense—wisdom of the merman priest, thirty-four voices from Glorantha speak to you of their ways and their dreams, their lives and their hopes.

     

    • Thanks 1

  5. 2 hours ago, Nevermet said:

    We Should All Read the Glorantha Voices again!

    Actually, I was digging through my Glorantha material last night to exactly that end!

    2 hours ago, Fedman Kassad said:

    The fact that folks are here having an argument discussion about the my choice good, your choice bad just shows how great a job well Greg and Co. did with this amazing setting...

    Agreed.


  6. 22 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

    the ultimate ramifications can be spun positively within the Lunar Way

    I don't think anyone on this thread doubts the Lunars can go to bed comfortably each night having justified the sacrifice of scores of people for a logic and theology imposed on their victims against their wills.

    As an additional indignity: the issue isn't "merely" about the visceral horror of human beings being devoured. If the Lunars are correct in this rational, then the Sartarites are being sent to become Chaos -- which is culturally, theologically, and cosomolgically one of the worst things they believe can happen to them. 

    • Like 1

  7. 51 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

    Fanatical ecoterrorists?

    That they are violently resisting technological expansionists ready to destroy the world... absolutely.

    But, again, this bleeds out all the magical and theological underpinnings of Glorantha which are literally true and runs right past the fun and power of the setting.


  8. 47 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

    When I was asked to explain the Orlanthi viewpoint a few years back, I realised that the best comparison I could think of was an ultranationalist right-winger. 

    I am absolutely certain there are many people who see the Orlanthi this way. (Certainly the Lunars do!) 

    But I read those words and they are so alien to how I see the Orlanthi they confound me.

    Like, if I had to make a comparable contemporary comparison to "ultranationalist right-winger" my counter would be "fanatical eco-terrorists." But both are wrong in my view as they kind of avoid all the Glorantha things that make Glorantha Glorantha.


  9. 29 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

    under a stable system of imperialist oppression.

    Also, let us be clear: While imperialist oppression is present, and covered under the pleasantries of social progress, these two elements cover another agenda: a cosmic shift of the acceptance of Chaos -- which is oblivion. The Lunar Empire can promote any lovely gifts it wants to. But at some level it wants the world itself, and everyone within it, to transcend themselves. 

    Glorantha is where this shit becomes literal. If the Orlanthi really love the world -- the physical, muddy, windswept world of blood and passion and life -- and I think they do, then yeah, I can see some problems they have with the Lunar agenda.

    "You get to keep that parts that won't fight against Chaos becoming what we all accept" is not much of a deal if -- wrong or right -- you think the world your ancestors fought to save is still worth protecting.

    Again, that's my take on things, with my sympathy being anti-Chaos as described in the Glorantha materials I have read.

    I completely understand that some folks are utterly certain the Lunars have a handle on All-Things-Chaos and all will be well. Color me skeptical. 

    • Like 1

  10. I'm inclined to listen to people smarter than me on these matters than me to adjust timelines as needed or as useful.

    Dates might be adjusted from the published books with hindsight. Or maybe have two timelines listed for accuracy: the dates as published, and the dates as revised with hindsight.

    • Like 1

  11. 1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

    You have the chronology slightly wrong. Sandy came to the UK in 1986 and told us that American gamers with no previous exposure to Glorantha thought the Lunars were the setting's good guys. (Well-informed Brits were interested to hear this, as obviously the Lunars are baddies). This was a few years before the first issue of Tales of the Reaching Moon, which is the first explicit example of "Brits falling for this nonsense" (that is, if you read David Hall's editorials with a profound and inappropriate lack of irony) that comes to mind. Hope this helps.

    Hey, hey... I meant no offense to Brits. And as far as timelines go, you are deep into weeds of RuneQuest's history that I know nothing about. I came to Glorantha by way of Hero Wars. So a lot of the ins-and-outs of 80s and 90s publishing, editorial, arguments and more is legend to me. 

    My timeline of the events under discussion has been based entirely off this thread!

    A couple of pages back...

    On 5/26/2020 at 4:03 PM, lordabdul said:

    I heard the story from different sources (mostly some interviews with Sandy Petersen) that Greg and the other mostly-north-american designers were favouring the Orlanthi in the early days (if not by "preferring" them, at least by having planned a whole bunch of books on them), but after travelling to the UK and meeting the British fans, they were amazed to see people who were pro-Lunar even though they read the same books as the US fans... Greg then allegedly decided to keep any future writing more "neutral" than what they had planned.... I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this all correctly and conveying the information accurately, but that's the general idea from what I understand.

    And then you replied to that post:

    On 5/27/2020 at 12:19 AM, Nick Brooke said:

    The way I remember hearing it from Sandy Petersen (at Games Day 1986 in London) was that players who were new to Glorantha with RQ3 and read through the Gods of Glorantha (1985's "Red Box") What the Priest Says narratives came away thinking the Lunars were the "good guys" and the Orlanthi were some terrible bunch of wreckers. (Because they didn't have the WB&RM / Wyrms Footnotes / Cults of Prax / Pavis box hinterland, and didn't know how the game had usually been played before).

    So I thought you were confirming Lord Abdul's take on the story. I thought the "players who were new to Glorantha with RQ3 and read through the Gods of Glorantha" you referenced were the British players Lord Abdul had referred to. I see now this was not the case! (Please keep in mind, again, all matters of RQ2, RQ3, different publishers across The Atlantic, and so on, is something I have no solid reference to. I'm aware of all of it -- but mostly I'm digging into Glorantha itself.)

    So, again, apologies for the error on my part.

    With that said, the Voices section of Gods of Glorantha seems to go out of its way to favor the Lunars and contort the Orlanthi!

    It is fascinating how a few choice words and images as a starting point can often influence the direction one's thinking goes on in the long term.

    Thank you for the clarification!

     

    • Thanks 1

  12. 19 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

    Thank you! I made it this morning, to delight you. The art is from the 1985 Voices: cool modern vaguely sci-fi levitating buddhist chick on the (political) left, who you'd love to hang out with, and some sinister shifty guy who looks like he's about to murder his uncle in a minor Shakespeare play vanishing into the shadows on the (far) right. 

    The more I think about Nick's (accurate) summation of the Orlanthi image, the more I am struck by how utterly WRONG it is.

    The top of the Orlanthi pantheon revolves around Air, Earth, Movement, Life... and we've got this dude twisting up on his own spine, trapped in what seems to be some sort of cave!

    The whole image is clearly part of some Lunar propeganda program. No wonder the Brits fell for this nonsense!

    • Like 1
    • Haha 2

  13. 24 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

    Thank you! I made it this morning, to delight you. The art is from the 1985 Voices: cool modern vaguely sci-fi levitating buddhist chick on the (political) left, who you'd love to hang out with, and some sinister shifty guy who looks like he's about to murder his uncle in a minor Shakespeare play vanishing into the shadows on the (far) right. 

    Nick, I think we're all aware that predatory cults use enticing women to lure potential victims.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
    • Haha 1

  14. On 6/8/2018 at 6:23 AM, Rick Meints said:

    I have never heard of such a list, but it would be quite useful. Are you seeking the date each scenario is set in? Are you asking for the years/ages covered in historical material? 

    For example, the RQ2 rulebook has a timeline that ends at 1613. You could say that it is set in 1613+, yet it also covers information from 1100-1613.

    I forgot about this thread!

    @Rick Meints, to answer your question, I'm looking for the dates scenarios are set and the key information in a product that is covered for contempoary play.

    To use your example, RQ2 has history spanning 500 year... but for my purposes the key is it brings us up to date for the year 1613. 

    A lot of Gloranthan products have information going back years, if not sometimes centuries, but each is usually anchored in "the now" of a particular year or years. What I'm looking to build is a Timeline of "the now" for each product. Clearly @Corvantir already did a lot of the leg work on this.

    My goal might be to add in non-official stuff like Tarsh in Flames and so on. (I'm not a canon-head. I'd be looking for inspiration to steal from along the timeline as my desires demand.)

    • Like 1

  15. Thanks for all the replies so far!

    @Nick Brooke that's fascinating about how folks reading the Gods of Glorantha (1985) drew their loyalties from the "Voices" section of that set. Without greater context I can easily see how it could happen. The Lunars are urban, forward looking. Meanwhile, the first word that describes the Orlanthi is "Barbarians" -- a word that is definitely how the Lunars see them -- but not how they see themselves and definitely not what they are from an objective point of view.

    Where did the image you posted come from? It's hilarious. 

    image.png.1c716c8b542a74c879f2f0e94ca8ca

    I have my own thoughts on the matter, of course. But for the time being I'm still curious about what Greg might have said on these matters or other thoughts. (My big overview: "Extremism is probably not good." But, like some others, I'm not trusting the side that is so confident in itself that it feeds countless people to a giant bat. I think the Lunars are very modern in their hubris and arrogance, and so modern folk can lean into them with more ease!)

    • Like 1

  16. There might well not be an answer to this, but I thought I'd ask since it's been at the back of my mind for some time.

    I know that most of the material presented for Glorantha is usually/often presented in a subjective manner from within the point-of-view of specific cultures within Glorantha. This means the Orlanthi trash the Lunars and praise their own culture and vica versa for the Lunars.

    I also know that different people have their own takes on these two cultures, usually siding with one over the other. (As much as one can side with fictional cultures of a mythical world!)

    I was wondering, however, what Stafford thought of the Orlanthi and the Lunars? Did he have a preference? They are obviously both set up with virtues, but also loaded with problems. Did he ever talk plainly and openly about what he thought of them? Did his view shift on them over time? (I'm sure the answer is "YES, DAMMIT!" to that question.)

    I'd love to know if there are any specific sources where he wrote about these matters.

    Thanks!

    • Thanks 1
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