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Darius West

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Posts posted by Darius West

  1. On 10/9/2020 at 2:13 AM, soltakss said:

    Illuminates are forbidden to join the cult, to prevent them from becoming Priests and gaining control of the Crimson Bat. Of course, they could trade for the spell, given a friendly Issaries Cultist.

    The restriction seems odd.  I mean, the Crimson Bat is the steed of the Red Goddess and she's illuminated...

  2. On 10/9/2020 at 3:15 AM, lordabdul said:

    Was she always like this, or did she start with good intentions and only got bad and twisted after a while?

    Milixia was always a pretty bad person.  She was an ambitious brat from the squalid alleys of Nochet. Any charity or decency was beaten out of her by Nochet's class war. I always assumed she joined Chalana Arroy because of the social advantages it provided in Esrolia.  She couldn't get that far joining Ernalda unless she had the social contacts (which she didn't).  It was either Chalana Arroy or Lanbril, so she opted for a bit of column a and a bit from column b.  I checked if with my GM if he could cope with me playing a morally reprehensible Chalana Arroy character, and we discussed a number of points about the cult and its restrictions prior to me playing Milixia.  In retrospect I think he gave too much ground on what constituted Healer's Protection on sleeped npcs. I don't generally play "bad guys", and Milixia was a memorable change of pace.

    On 10/9/2020 at 3:15 AM, lordabdul said:

    The only time I've seen someone pick Chalana Arroy for their character, the player said that it was indeed some "interesting" restrictions and wanted to see how it would play. Sadly, the games were short lived for boring organizational reasons so the player didn't get to try much (but still wants to).

    I got the idea for Milixia many years ago when GMing Borderlands for friends.  One of them had a hazia addicted Chalana Arroy girlfriend at Horn Gate. He would visit her when on long range patrol for Raus.  The gf did some fairly questionable things over time and it began to dawn on me that a Chalana Arroy could have dimensions most combat oriented characters never really developed.  I had seen other players have really greedy Chalana Arroys before, but the notion of a truly morally reprehensible character who traded on favors and cash appealed to me.  I didn't expect Milixia to be quite as successful as she was, but I had run the GM through a number of intrigue heavy campaigns in the past, and he really seemed to rise to the occasion.  I think he was a little disappointed when we agreed to let Milixia and the boys die.

    • Like 1
  3. I had fun playing an evil Chalana Arroy.  It's a way to break the stereotype.  Her name was Milixia (pronounced Militia) the Deliverer, and she was from Nochet City.  She was in Prax to make her fortune on the frontier because everything in Esrolia was sewn up by big families.

    Milixia had a number of personality flaws.  She was a malignant narcissist and something of a psychopath.  She was very good at taking people's hopes and dreams and turning them to her own interests. Milixia was utterly greedy, and would generally only offer up her rune magic if promised "a sufficient donation".  She went on adventures purely to get money and her attitude to cult duties might be called tithe avoidance... not tithe evasion, mind you.  In essence she spent a lot of time seeing how much she could stretch Chalana Arroy cult restrictions without actually breaking them.   She was a trader in favors, a loan shark, a book cooker, a drug dealer, a spy, a courtesan, a slaver (or an enthraller, being the term she preferred), and a gossip monger, both a destroyer and repairer of reputations. For example, she had paid for training with the Lhankor Mhy temple to learn alchemy, and picked up enough mathematics to calculate compound interest. Having arrived in New Pavis, she rapidly came to hate it passionately, and realized that she had made a huge mistake and set about acting utterly in her own self interest, as far as her vows allowed.  She was a mob boss who ran drugs in New Pavis.  She started with a huge pile of Hazia from Rabbit Hat Farm she was told to dispose of, so she figured out the market value and proceeded to sell it.  She parlayed this into a pile of money and extended some of the addicts a line of credit, which she then used to turn them into an income stream.  There was no known cure for addiction other than cold turkey which was torture, and thus she couldn't perform.  Those who couldn't cover their debts were eventually sold into slavery.  Naturally she had a number of members of the watch on her payroll, and the other players eventually became her bodyguards.  It became a very different game to the one the GM had envisaged.  The high point of Milixia's story was when she became the High Priestess of the Horn Gate Chalana Arroys.  Ultimately she discovered the Morokanths were going to betray her over slaves she was sending them, and when she set about a pre-emptive strike, things went awry and the party got captured.  What was even worse was the fact that the drugs of addiction that she used to keep the other players loyal wore off and they all went into withdrawls while in captivity.  The GM was quite prepared to play on from that point with an escape etc, but after a bit of a discussion we decided that this was a fitting and poetic end to Milixia and her gang.

    She was a source of pitch-black comedy to play, and I had fun coming up with hypocritical  excuses for her dreadful actions.  Her most famous quote was "A lady always reserves the right to change her mind".

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1
  4. On 10/5/2020 at 11:38 AM, EricW said:

    Lunar heroes must to some extent be free from the phases of the moon.

    They cant lose all their power during dark moon, otherwise defeating them would be too easy - trick them into venturing outside the glow line, then kick them when they are down.

    Yet Lunar armies, even armies led by heroes, suffer magical disadvantages during dark moon phases.

    Has anyone thought about how this could work? Do Lunars in the immediate vicinity of a hero sometimes discover they can cast magic at full strength?

    Why haven’t Lunar heroes quested for the power to create their own glow spot? Or have they?

    Given that Glowspot is a Crimson Bat Rune Spell, and given that Lunar heroes are illuminated, surely they can simply sacrifice for the spell?  I mean, sure, it makes immense sense to have a Lunar HQ that grants this as a power, but given that the Crimson Bat gives this away to associated cults in the pantheon, how necessary is it?

  5. On 9/29/2020 at 4:53 PM, Trotsky said:

    So, how could that happen? One of the characters is an assistant shaman who is on good terms with his shaman who might help – could be part of his training. The man who abducted the woman also seemed not to be quite in his right mind, so a way to make him speak the truth would also be necessary.

    Ancestor worship would raise his spirit.  The whole measure of forcing the spirit to speak the truth is a moot point.  Clever cross-examination may get the spirit to accidentally incriminate himself by, say, losing his cool and ranting out the truth.  it is also possible that the spirit, while crazy, is no longer attached to the world and will have no investment in hiding the truth, even if their version of it is a bit demented.  Have you seen Rashomon?  Kurosawa's take on this story was interesting in that the Ghost had the least coherent narrative of all of the parties involved in his murder.  Just a thought...

    • Like 1
  6. 18 hours ago, Mythforger said:

    Hello everyone,

    I am looking into a very specific topic. My daughter is now ten years old, and after a few experiences with other rpgs, i want to introduce her and her friends to Runequest and Glorantha. The plan is, to let them play a band of children who go on fantastic adventures together. Think Goonies in Glorantha.

    I ran a game set in New Pavis around the time of the start of the Lunar Occupation where the players all started as kids.  There were various "gangs" of kids in various parts of town, and even newtling "kids" who are new bachelor newtlings who hang around the docks.  The kids have a trade network for the various odd pieces of junk they find where they barter their toys for other toys or favors, even setting up seven-stage barters where they need to get person A to trade object A to person B so that person B will trade object B to person C etc. ending with then getting the thing they want.  It was all very NPC driven, and the point was that the NPCs grew up with the player characters and remained local fixtures, making the players feel more invested in their city and its people as they gradually grew into adults.

    18 hours ago, Mythforger said:

    But how do i do that? What would the stats of a kid in the system be?   

    Kids have:  Starting Con & Pow=Maximum rolled.  Int, Dex, Cha= 2 points per year until rolled maximum is met. Str & Siz =1 point per year.

    When players have kids I use the following system to determine their stats

    Roll D6.   1=Roll a fresh stat.  2=Take worst of Mother or Father's Stat.  3=Take average of Mother and Father's Stat. 4=Take Mother's Stat. 5=Take Father's Stat. 6=Take best of Mother or Father's stat.

    19 hours ago, Mythforger said:

    Would they have allready affinities to runes?

    Yes, but these will be lower.  They will increase their rune affinities as they grow with encounters and at least 1 mandatory improvement roll per year.

    19 hours ago, Mythforger said:

    Which gods would look after the little ones?

    Voria, Teelo Nori, Heler, Yelm the Youth, Trickster etc.  Children will seldom be more that lay members of any cult.  Richer families may pay for their kids to learn simple spirit healing spells.  It is likely that local priests will also be talent scouting the next generation to spot potential new initiates for their deity.  Some kids may be chosen for an early initiation if they seem especially gifted.

    19 hours ago, Mythforger said:

    Where would you place such stories in the world?   

    My little Pavic street rats had recently lost their fathers when the Lunars invaded, as they were defending the walls.  One of their mothers became ill, and the kids had to figure out how to get healing for her when the Chalana Arroys had fled the city.  They also had to figure out how to cover their rent so that they wouldn't save their mother but lose their house.  This led to them taking odd jobs such as gathering dog poo for the tanners, carting water, running messages between shops.  I also had a combat rule that kids would fight, but whoever took a point of damage had to make a Con x5 roll or burst into tears, thus losing the fight.  They lived in terror of the "big kids", who would often chase them and beat them up and steal their best things.  Eventually the kids reasoned out that their mother must have some sort of connection with the Elves of the Garden due to her cultivating Narl Flowers on the roof, and so they made a big dangerous pilgrimage to the Garden to seek out their help.  They were accosted by a curious Griffin, got into a fight with an opportunistic trollkin who thought they might be easy pickings, and were chased into the garden by mean Praxians who would definitely taken them as slaves.  The elves however quickly found the children and after questioning them discovered that their mother was indeed a good friend of the Elves, and so sent the children home with the medicine their mother needed.  This was just 1606.  They went bartering in Sun County, got involved with local thieves, helped save an injured trickster, and all sorts of mischief.  it had a somewhat Tom Sawyer aspect to it, but of course it was set in a dusty bronze age frontier town on the edge of a dangerous and exciting no-mans-land.  

    • Like 1
  7. On 9/30/2020 at 10:15 AM, JonL said:

    The steeds of the Ostrich Riders are completely invulnerable when they stick their heads in the sand. 

    Just the mounts though, not the riders.

    It obviously forms a stasis rune.

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  8. Warm Beer.  Bark teas.  Soups.  Wassails.  Warm fruit alcohols. with herbs and spices.  Salep (made from orchid root).  Something similar to an Api Morado?  Spiced Hot milk.  Butter teas (in Prax and Pent).  Mint Tea.  Barley Tea.  Spiced Soy Milk in Kralorela.  Sage Tea.  Ginger based drinks.

    Hot drinks make a lot of sense, as boiling water unites the enemies of Fire and Water in a common cause to kill disease spirits according to the Chalana Arroys.  Most medicinal potions are likely served hot when that is possible.

    • Like 3
  9. On 9/26/2020 at 11:49 AM, Alex said:

    But many Gloranthan cultures and belief systems would see the too as the same, or at least inherently related.  For the theistic conservatives, because they see 'mystical' malarky as deeply dangerous in essentially the same way as chaos is -- it'll not just kill ya, it'll destroy you utterly on a spiritual level too.  And indeed, destroy the universe if you don't keep a close eye on.  And conversely for the mystics -- or at least prominent examples thereof -- they see the manifest forms of chaos differently from the 'kill it with lightning bolts!' squad.

    Firstly, I like your spin on things.  Secondly, given that some ultimate dragon may appear and go all Sacred Utuma on Glorantha, I think the Theists are probably correct.  Mystics are a bit of a conundrum, as they are both personally weak and cosmically terrifying.  As for mystics having multiple views on Chaos, I don't doubt it, but does Chaos actually care what Mystics think about it?  Wouldn't it be nice to actually have some rules for mysticism in RQ?

  10. On 9/11/2020 at 7:54 PM, EricW said:

    Maybe the ships are undead, boats built from green wood which has not quite died, with "create vampire" cast on them. That would explain the secrecy around the "sorcerous ritual", and Belintar certainly had an unusual relationship with death, so he might have passed on a trick or two. Vampires don't have to be human, and possibly don't even have to be intelligent, so the ritual might work. A solution that bizarre, perhaps even someone as intelligent as Zzabur might have overlooked the possibility.

    You could imagine Dormal running short of ideas, noticing the wood in his latest boat is still green, still just barely alive, and wondering what would happen if he used *that* spell...

    I won't say it's impossible but that would really suck. ;)  It's actually a very creative answer.

    • Haha 1
  11. On 9/7/2020 at 11:55 PM, soltakss said:

    The God Learners were smashed by the Closing. Zzabur didn't much care for the God Learners, after all they weren't Brithini, so I would guess that he made the Closing so that everything they tried failed, because it was a trick to trap them. Also, with the loss of Zistor, the rolling over of Slontos, avenging Orlanthi and the Closing, they had a lot of things to worry about.

    Surely the entire purpose of the Closing was Zzabur seeking to actively destroy the power of the Jrusteli? 

    In truth, Zistor was a catastrophically stupid thing for the Jrusteli, as it broke the Compromise and allowed the Gods to act in the world with a free hand.  Had the Jrusteli never created Zistor, they might still be around.  I am somewhat surprised that the pre-eminent hero-questers didn't figure out this problem, as it was hardly without precedent.

    I think Zzabur becoming active against the Jrusteli was the Western Tradition disciplining their own wayward followers.  Of course the real issue is, what did Zzabur call a ship?  How did his closing spell define a ship and how did Dormal sidestep that definition?

  12. On 8/29/2020 at 2:03 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

    ETA not only was the walrus powerful it was unnaturally (if I can use this phrase) fast.

    They are reasonably fast in a single direction, but as with defeating crocodiles and alligators, you can run in a zig zag, or a spiral, or use a Somali lope to change direction and the walrus needs to start moving its bulk laterally to stay on target and it loses forwards momentum.  i.e. Dodge.

  13. 7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

    Which perhaps makes sense then.  If they did the First Voyage and thought that it was the "this is not a ship" trick that got them through, then used the "let my 'not ships' through again" on the Second Voyage, then they may have concluded that that was the correct approach.  But it wasn't, so the Third Voyage failed and they had to rethink what it was that actually allowed them to pass the first time.  Once they figured that out, they were better prepared and succeeded with the Fourth Voyage.

    You have to wonder what made it "Not a ship" though.  I did pick up hints that whatever they did was a bit like a wyter ritual, but that is hardly a sorcery answer.  I suppose half of what we need to ask here is "given that Zzabur is the greatest sorcerer ever, and his spell is in effect centuries after casting so he must have an immense INT to pull off a spell of that magnitude, so what sort of loophole would he miss?".  The obvious one is that if you could make the ship seem like a living water creature, then the closing would almost certainly ignore the ship.  Perhaps the spell looked for objects above a certain size, made of wood or metal?  If that were the case, you might be able to bypass the Closing my making a spell that disguised your ship as ceramic or some-such.  Another possibility is a detection blank, but who really thinks that the Closing could be averted by a week's worth of detection blank?  I wonder if they did any test-bedding using disposable boats with test spells cast on them?

    Of course the other thing that needs to be discussed is Dormal's relationship to Belintar, given that Belintar apparently just washed up on a beach while the Closing was in effect, then later he apparently fathers Dormal.  Coincidence?  (When is anything ever a coincidence in Gloranthan mythology ?).  I mean, Belintar is basically Ephraim Waite, right down to the deep one ancestry when I am being cynical, but does that get us anywhere?  What does a body-jumping cast-away who becomes an Elemental Land uniting Pharaoh have in common with a ship god, or are we playing Nephilim here?  Now there is a telling point... Grimoires are written from Belintar's teachings.  So Belintar is most likely a sorcerer.  You would also not really call him a good sorcerer, given that he has hacked the whole issue of immortality by hijacking bodies.  Is Belintar a Vadeli one wonders?  Ignoring this, there are a number of suggested links of Belintar as perhaps an adversary of the Jrusteli.  Is it then such an odd idea that Belintar might know what Zzabur's Closing spell actually included?

    • Like 4
  14. Let us get a clearer understanding of what the Closing entails.  Firstly it doesn't affect ships that are in sight of land.  Secondly, it could be overcome at great cost, as the Last Ship (The Middle Sea Empire, p27) reveals.  Sometimes it manifests as a becalming, while at other times it manifests as dangerously high seas.  It should also be known that the God Learners used flying spells and flying craft and they too were under attack, but were they attacked by the Closing?  Doubtful.  

    I would suggest that the Closing was more than just Zzabur's spell.  I think that the water folk were actively using new methods to attack the Jrusteli, and the Closing spell was helping to identify targets.  There seems to have been Air God collusion involved too. 

    On 8/30/2020 at 10:39 PM, David Scott said:

    Dormal himself was worshipped, so had a Hero Soul, had a wizard assisting him. So it could be as simple as a magic point powered spell cast through Dormal achieving a protective effect from the closing (what ever that was). The ritual contains points for the effect, propitiation for the sea, air,  monster and upset gods. 

    Where does it say that Dormal was worshipped prior to his voyages?  I have not come across that.  My readings only suggest that he was an Esrolian nobleman, and thus worthy of less reverence than his mum.

    On 9/3/2020 at 9:57 PM, Akhôrahil said:

    You also have to paint those eyes so that the ship can see where it's going. Duh!

    It has occurred to me, and probably others, that the painted eyes may actually be central to the ritual of the opening.  Consider, Zzabur didn't want to create a ritual that would destroy all life in the ocean, only to wipe ships from the surface.  So how do you identify what is a ship and what is a large sea creature (you don't want to jeopardise a shaky alliance with Magasta and kill his monsters) ?  Eyes would be a logical point of identification for a living creature.  That smells like a loophole.

    On 8/31/2020 at 6:25 AM, Akhôrahil said:

    You would have thought that getting a decent ship design, a decent crew and sacrificing to the Sea gods would have been the first thing people tried after the closing... 

    Yes, absolutely, the God Learners weren't rubes.  They had even invented a couple of sea gods of their own by that stage.  As the story of the Last Ship shows, it was possible for the God Learners to brute force their way through the closing using their best equipment, but it would be badly damaged.

    On 8/31/2020 at 4:50 AM, Voriof said:

    or the ritual merely said, 'this is not a ship or a boat, move along, move along' in a way the guardians would accept. Sidstepping (and probably eroding) the Closing enough to avoid it.

    Agreed.  But would this have been via a Countermagic effect, or an invisibility effect, or a detection block etc?  Clearly the Closing spell was targeting ships, and clearly the Open Seas ritual allows a ship to bypass the effect. 

    • Like 1
  15. 6 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

    This is a decidedly un-Gloranthan answer, but it might just be numerical plausibility. A LOT of people live in Esrolia. 
    (Also Dormal's personal rune affinity might've been Sea, but I get that your point was more on a cultural level, and I agree that it's one of those curveballs Glorantha has).

    Heh, so if you roll the dice enough times Statistics will produce the impossible.  That's in line with sorcerous thinking.  I wonder if Zzabur did the calculations and figured out how long it would take?  Still, I find it interesting that the God Learners couldn't crack the problem if one lone Esrolian nobleman could do so centuries later with incomplete records and a bit of rule of thumb, a slate, and a mosaic.  Open Seas is, after all, a sorcery spell.

  16. The issue of the redevelopment of naval cultures has come up in another question, but it occurred to me that I don't recall ever reading how Dormal sidestepped The Closing.  For those who haven't done the background reading, Dormal is the Sailor God.  He was am Esrolian Nobleman, and is claimed as a son of Belintar, who became infatuated with the "call of Magasta".  He had read about voyages during the second age, found a mosaic regarding how to build a ship on a Nochet boat shop floor, performed subsidiary research, obtained finance, and somehow figured out the sorcerous "Open Seas" ritual.  This meant that in the year 1580 that he was the captain of the first ship to set sail beyond the sight of the coast and survive the Closing, which was a sorcerous ritual curse unleashed by Zzabur. 

    The question is, what was the loophole Dormal exploited?  Is the Boat Planet related to the Open Seas Ritual or is that just something that cemented Dormal's place as a deity?  

    • Like 1
  17. On 8/29/2020 at 1:42 AM, jajagappa said:

    I don't know that it's necessarily odd that Dormal comes from Nochet.  Belintar was likely manipulating lineage over several generations.  Also there's nothing contradictory between Dormal being noble and a LM sage - many Esrolian noble males join Issaries or LM, as those make good candidates to marry into other noble clans.

    I considered it odd as Esrolia is a very Earth Rune place, and for no other reason.  IDK about you, but the notion of an Earth Rune society producing the renaissance of seacraft seems a little incongruous.  On the other hand, the very incongruity of it may be why Dormal was able to sidestep the Closing; the gods never considered the possibility that anyone from an Earth Rune society would suddenly develop a fascination with the Oceans.   As to what the loophole was, that is a question for another forum topic, and I think I will post it.

    • Like 1
  18. On 8/29/2020 at 8:21 PM, Brootse said:

    Can the Crimson Bat use its spit and tongue attacks on targets on its back?

    Based on the illustration, I would say that the tongue attack might not be able to reach everywhere on the Bat's body, but the eye-spits can, as the bat is covered in eyes. 

    18 hours ago, soltakss said:

    I'd say the tongues are at half chance.

    IDK about this.  The Bat is covered in eyes, so it can target all over itself from multiple angles imo.


    Classically the best way to get rid of the bat has always been to destroy its wings.  I would suspect that Argrath would prompt Gonn Orta to rip them off the way a person would do so to a butterfly.

    • Like 2
  19. On 8/29/2020 at 11:37 AM, jajagappa said:

    and also fundamental, and the stuff from which Creation comes. 

    Or is it?  This is something even the gods are on record as saying that they don't actually know.  If the gods don't actually know, and if travel to the void beyond the Sky Dome neither annihilates you nor gives you chaos features, but the primal plasma harvested from the Chaosium does, then what is really going on? 

    I see the cosmic void as being very distinct from the Chaosium.    Absence is not chaos,  in fact it is closer to the Infinity Rune imo.  The void is a place of cosmic dragons and mystics who have refuted the world.  I suspect that if you have access to Air or some magical proxy thereof that you can walk on the Sky Dome.

    The  Chaosium is a much smaller place, and is likely the origin of all sources of Chaos Slime.  It was once the primal plasma, but was polluted by the Unholy Trio, and is now where the Devil is reborn every 600 years and the source of all Chaos Features.   Old stories told us that beyond the dome of the world lies chaos, and Glorantha is effectively a bubble floating in that chaos, but the Solar Myth Cycles tell us something different.   At ground level it seems to be a different story.  Trolls fight chaos incursions at the edge of the world, that come through the cracks in the world.  Or do they?  How is it that burbling pits of chaos emerge?  Based on what has been revealed elsewhere, this seems to be associated with the remains of dead chaos deities, who are still channeling the powers of their emanation of the chaos rune.  All immortal beings seem to come back from the dead via their remains to some degree, much like Shamanic self resurrection.

  20. On 8/27/2020 at 4:01 PM, Garrik said:


    I'm reading about the Gloranthan trade routes and main trade goods in the GTG.

    It seems all interregionally traded ivory comes from hot climes: Fonrit, Maslo, Teshnos. So it is likely elephant tusks. Or are there other big tusker animals in those climes?

    On our Earth, walrus tusks were an important source of ivory in Europe and northern Eurasia. There was lively ivory trade at least in the Viking period. It looks like the two water bodies around Valind's Glacier should be excellent habitat for walrus. Now I wonder 1) if there are walruses in Glorantha, 2) if they are hunted for ivory, and 3) if walrus ivory is plentiful & valued enough that it should have an impact in interregional trade?

    It is worth pointing out that there are plenty of sources of ivory other than walruses.  Consider Mammoths, mastodons, Elk (2 ivory teeth), hippopotami (Water horses of Zola Fel), sperm whales, killer whales, narwhals (Magasta, Magasta, Magasta) warthogs (bestiary pig dogs).  Walruses are diestrous with a 14-16 month gestation and reach maturity by age 15.  This is comparatively slow reproduction.  In Glorantha there are likely to me quite a few other somewhat fantastical beasts like Tuskers that produce ivory, but most will be pretty dangerous.  And that is really the problem.  I also don't think that ivory has ever been harvested sustainably by any human population. Getting Ivory is dangerous using only bronze age technology.  I could see the value in cranking up an arbalest against walruses, but if they get into the water and dive, they will be lost even if injured.  There are likely beasts in Skyfall lake that the trolls hunt with their harpoons, and I would imagine that ivory is one of the better materials that the water people can use in crafting without recourse to any fire.  I suppose that unicorn horns might also be counted as ivory. 

    An ivory industry requires (a) a reliable source of ivory (b) the means to harvest ivory safely and reliably (c) people who want to buy it.  I think that the Elk people are likely the best answer for a and b.  As to people who want to buy it, well that is a little more moot.  I would expect that the water tribes would be quite eager to trade for it if surface dwellers have an easier source than slaying a Magasta monster.  I would also suspect that the hsunchen will be a good source of the material as well as major consumers.  We can be pretty certain that Kralorela would be a major ivory consumer too.  I could also see the trolls being interested in ivory as theirs is a "tooth" culture.  During the time of Aram Ya Udram in the First Age, Orlanthi had a pig culture (that went a little feral), and no doubt they would have used a lot of tusks in regalia, but ivory's price and prestige will have changed a lot, if one follows the logic that you need a ritual interest in a material to regard it as more than a curiosity.  It is a good material for scrimshaw and other carvings, but that is dependent on the size of the piece.  I could imagine that it would add lustre and value to ritual regalia.  Historically it was used for tusk helmets, sculptures, game tokens, fish hooks, boxes and bottles, awls, needles, cutlery handles.  We can assume that it could be used for decorating weapons, especially the handles of iron swords I would imagine.

    The good news about hunting walruses is that they are not so fast on land, and would not be immensely hard to outrun or dodge as they telegraph their attacks pretty badly.  They also have plenty of meat and blubber, which cold climate people need.  I am concerned that the level of hunting before the walrus population becomes troubled might be a bit low given their slow birth rate.  They reproduce more slowly than humans.   You need to kill 93 walruses on average to produce a ton of ivory btw.  Now if you have a population of Walruses in the millions and a hsunchen population doing the harvesting, it is probably sustainable for quite some time, but better hunting weapons introduced by commercial hunters are likely to increase harvest rates and make the walrus population decline reasonably quickly.

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  21. The truly odd thing about the situation is that Dormal comes from Nochet City.  Allegedly Dormal is a son of Belintar and a noble by birth to his mother Valira.  As a male noble he may have belonged to any of the masculine cults, but given that he first has to receive the prompting from Magasta, then become curious about ships, sees the mosaic on the boatshed floor, then research Diros the Sailor, etc, and he needed to know sorcery, I would argue that Dormal was a Lhankor Mhy initiate or better.  This seems to be the best fit based on the evidence.  It is possible that he also had some Issaries given that he was recorded as a good communicator, and contradiction though it is, Lhankor Mhy is the greedy one, whereas Issaries is the freedom loving curious footloose explorer.

    As to Orlanthi not being a Ship culture, well that is to be expected imo.  In 1580 Sartar and Heortland existed, but it was Esrolia that spawned Dormal.  Prior to that, everyone had been getting about in boats, not ships, and only in sheltered bays and rivers, and within sight of land.  Orlanth has a long standing fight with the Water Tribe, as we can see, for storms at sea are very obviously an elemental confrontation.  Orlanth has also effectively kidnapped both Heler and Mastakos from the Water Tribe.  Now in the period between 1580 to 1625, it must be said that the Orlanthi had their attention focused away from the sea.  Ultimately, any new links with Orlanth and the sea would likely come via Argrath's voyage.  It also becomes apparent that the Wolf Pirates are the ones who will come to dominate the waters round Genertela, and really no other power can properly challenge them.  Will Orlanthi join the Wolf Pirates?  Very Likely.  Will Wolf Pirates in turn come to worship Orlanth?  I would think that is a foregone conclusion.  This cultural shift will not be quick, but Argrath is a forward thinker, so gaining wealth through trade to further fund the war effort seems an inevitable choice once the Wolf Pirates decide not to prey on the ships of Sartar's Alliance after the incorporation of the Holy Country into Argrath's sphere of influence.

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  22. On 8/21/2020 at 4:07 AM, Eff said:

    A logical proof. 

    Assume that if a god is described as holding a Rune, they are that Rune. 

    1. Orlanth holds the Air Rune.

    2. Barntar possesses the Air Rune.

    3. Barntar is Orlanth.

    4. Daga possesses the Air Rune. 

    5. Daga is Orlanth. 

    6. Barntar is Daga. 

    Clearly, you are greatly Illuminated indeed. 

    Incorrect.  Orlanth holds the true Air rune, not an emanation thereof.  Barntar possesses an emanation of the Air rune.  Daga possesses an emanation of the Air rune.  Orlanth is the Demiurge of his pantheon because he holds the power from which the others derive their power.  Orlanth likely obtained his rune after the death of Umath, his father.

  23. On 8/21/2020 at 10:19 AM, jajagappa said:

    No, it is not.  Experiencing the Other is not about interacting, but understanding/becoming One with the Other.  That's central for instance to Yelm's revelations in Hell.

    Well then that isn't "experiencing the other", that is "experiencing the other as self".  A fine definitional clarification, but an important one.

    On 8/21/2020 at 10:19 AM, jajagappa said:

    You realize that it doesn't matter.  And that you have a choice as to whether to make it matter or not - it's the same as Draconic entanglement.  But fundamentally it is a choice about what that existence will be, or won't be, that is neither bound by a limited view of Self, or defined by Others.

    More likely everyone in the throes of an illumination experience says they think these things don't matter,  but after 36 hours of meditation they throw a fit when the pot of soup they prepared has been eaten without them despite the food potentially going to waste.  Such is their un-attachment.  It isn't the grand ideas an great challenges that wear people down, it is the grind of daily living that does it.  Consider Howard Hughes dying a neglected old man in a multi-million dollar apartment he owned, not that he was illuminated, but as an illustration of how daily life does a number on people.

    On 8/21/2020 at 10:19 AM, jajagappa said:

    Yes, and it is also the "stuff" of Creation.  Without Chaos, there was no world to begin with, no world to form or fashion out of Chaos.  And, yes, it tends towards its original "non" form, destroying and obliterating that which was created.

    This just further proves that the nature of chaos is inimical to all existence which was my point all along.  They say chaos created the cosmic egg, but preface it by saying that even the gods don't know, so at best this is an opinion.

  24. On 8/17/2020 at 9:30 AM, dumuzid said:

    When did Glorantha exist before, or without, Chaos?  The Chaosium is the source of primal creative power, Chaos is the infinite from which form itself arose.  The trolls understand this: Bozkatang, the first true Chaos Fighter, faced and defeated the first demons born from the Chaosium long before Yelm drove the trolls aboveground.  Chaos cannot be allowed to win, but it is a necessary component of the Gloranthan cosmos.  Always has been.

    I'm surprised you can't see why this is problematic.  Yes, the Primal Plasma was necessary for the growth of the world, but at a certain point, growth becomes cancer.  I think there are more than enough threats in Glorantha without chaos, so what is its real purpose?  Why is it necessary?  I think the allegory that "life is struggle" can be proven without recourse to a constant threat of universal annihilation.  the Primal Plasma was the building material of life, but the deities then had control over it and made it into useful things that fitted within a pattern.  Since the Unholy Trio polluted the Primal Plasma, it has brought nothing good to the world.  I would be more inclined to view Nysalor in a positive light if he had performed some sort of HQ to clean the Primal Plasma, but no, he simply said Chaos was fine as is and we should all learn to accept it.  This is a bit like when political parties stop talking about solving problems and start talking about problems being "issues".  The implication being that they have no answers.

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