Darius West

Honestly, Sartarites have a huge impetus to repopulate after 1602, and every subsequent year. They had a huge reason to populate prior too, given the threat on the horizon. Ignoring that, they have a huge impetus to populate given the "axles over the next hill" want to take their land in stock standard Orlanthi territorial feuding. In a society where motherhood is revered, and social survival of the in-group depends on motherhood, please don't assume that women don't want to make that choice. That's a modern post-industrial thing and both anachronistic an inappropriate for Glorantha imo. Motherhood is not a boring or inferior life choice for women in Glorantha, and it carries social and religious power and importance. The bronze age is a "populate or perish" environment where motherhood is very important. Sure, in Orlanthi society there is the law "nobody can make you do anything", which means that human females in Orlanthi societies need not choose motherhood and can opt into pretty much any cult, and some do, but 85% (the orlanthi definition of All) women will likely join earth related cults like Ernalda to help them with farming and maternity, just like 85% (again All) of males will join Orlanth or the Thunder Brothers such as Barntar. At least that is my take on matters, but I think it is born out by the material.

Based on those population densities we must assume that the rural population is very high. Yes, magic can mitigate these requirements a little in terms of keeping urban populations supplied, but not unreasonably as the magic only protects the crop; it doesn't multiply it. You are denigrating motherhood, whether you accept the fact or not. Do you seriously think that a society like Esrolia gets as large as it is because women would rather be filling other roles? Motherhood is the social glue of Orlanthi society, and Ernaldan society too. Raising a large family is useful for many reasons, and the legal institutions relating to marriage exist to protect mothers and children and their inheritance rights, as males are warriors and thus disposable. This is not a society where most women want to travel or fight or spend their lives cooped up in a library or a workshop. Motherhood has immense dignity, and each live birth is a personal hero quest that adds to the viability of her family, her clan, her tribe, and her state. Ernalda is the epitome of this role, and you don't see the goddess eagerly running off to try her hand at killing broos, or learning calligraphy etc. We MUST count the border alterations caused by the Lunar occupation. The entire focus of Orlanthi identity has been dedicated to fighting the Lunars and losing. How can we not count that? Also we cannot be entirely certain about when Moonson gave Ethilrist his land, and we know that the Amber fields and Forthanland only become recognized as Yelmalio territory in 1579. The fall of Tarsh also saw the territory of that state subtract the land of the Exiles, the Bush range and Far Point from its previous holdings imsmc. I strongly disagree with this assessment. The pursuit of large families is a constant for every clan at all times, as children become the wealth and power of a family. Furthermore, danger is a proven aphrodisiac and war and hardship drives population booms when you look at demographic evidence irl. Personally I base my Argrath on Greg Stafford himself, and have always imagined him as Greg's character and reflecting Greg's personality if playing this very focused Orlanthi leader. I see Argrath as highly intelligent and innovative, mercurial, and highly political. Of course Argrath is also an illuminate, and so there is the temptation of power-hungry over-reach. All of this would no-doubt permeate his use of sex (I employ the term "use of sex" very deliberately as I am sure he would see it as another tool). That being said I think that your approach to Argrath works well JRE and I think agree with it.

I must disagree. Every bronze age society has a huge impetus to populate. Every child represents an extra pair of hands to bring in the harvest and engage in unpaid farm work until they achieve their majority, and possibly long after that if they want to inherit. This was one of the main population drivers of all agricultural societies and it is only in the post WW2 era that this has begun to change in the developed world, but it hasn't changed in the undeveloped world. High populations and high pop growth rate are also extremely necessary for any group that engage in regular warfare. Small groups get trampled by large groups. This "trampling" is how those who lack land are accommodated, they fight and win or lose and die. This is extremely relevant to Orlanthi tribes too, as their regular feuds are symptomatic of this process.

I disagree. Seriously look at how Esrolia functions. They are not strictly Orlanthi, but they are Orlanthi enough. The driving factor in population growth in the Bronze Age and in most agrarian ages subsequent was that having children was a source of free labor. Children equal wealth, assuming you have excess land to work. Motherhood is a means to power, because every child you bring into the world is another human being who is completely loyal to you, and whom you can barter into a politically advantageous marriage or work in the fields. You seem to think that small families are a virtue, but in this context they are not. There is no impetus for small families at all. Unmarried widows will barter for husbands, or will become matriarchs who hold the land they have gained in several marriages in trust for some of their children. The notion of an excess of single women ignores the fact that there are Hero Wars going on, and there are plenty of war cults that are eager to take female recruits, or will only take female recruits like BBG and Vinga. Mothers ARE the means of production and they own themselves.

But drugs wear off... we need to face the fact that Scrappy-Doo was the shark that Scooby jumped.

Correct... Let's just say there are options available and that is certainly one of them. On the other hand, Teelo Nori is all about running food relief and shelter for the poor. Medical aid is potentially available from them.

No Arthur, no Enchantment of Britain, no golden age, no Pendragon Game imo. You would be stuck in a nasty, ugly, brutal and short dark ages campaign. Do you fancy retooling Harnmaster for Britain?

Gondo's Herd Man Treats **. Standard Stall in the New Pavis Main Market. Gondo the Fearless (Male 39y/o from the Village of Maughry) is a tall, dark haired man with rather large eyes and a dark sense of humor, who enjoys selling his quasi-cannibalistic wares. He insists on offering any newcomer to Pavis a serve of his fried ladyfingers. He is good friends with the local Morokanths and certain Zorak Zoran trolls. For many people, mock pork is an odd and taboo food, and there are those who suspect that Gondo is an ogre, but in fact he an honest and philanthropic fellow who remains an initiate of Stormbull who is a very proficient brawler, though no longer an adventurer, due to old wounds and a young family. He lives in the village of Maughry, east south east of Pavis and is a reliable friend to those he gets to know, having stepped in to save people from being injured in riots and so forth.

Hmm... IDK. Frankly I don't think Uther is the problem here. Not entirely at least. After all, Merlin is the enabler for the whole sordid episode, and what happens is not so far removed from Merlin's own allegedly demonic conception. And yet, out the other end we get Arthur. Apparently sometimes two wrongs can make a right... Those pagan deities have a sick sense of humor imo.

I have a scenario which I have been writing where you play New Pavic kids in 1612. They are siblings and their daddy was melted defending the walls from the Lunars, while their mother has been struggling to make ends meet by taking in laundry and occasionally becoming a "proto-ulerian encounter" at night. The kids have jobs they need to do to help out, but they are low paying and exploitative. Then their mother takes ill and is bed-bound. The problem is that the Chalana Arroys have all fled to Horn Gate, so there is no easy solution. The kids have a series of difficult choices to make about how to save their mum.

Heh, I often play a Stormbull.

I am dobbing you in to the Stormbulls! That is straight up illuminism 🙂

Thanks for this rather expert clarification David. Half the reason I have raised this topic is because I am ill informed about it. Obviously you have put serious thought and research into the Twin Stars. I hope other interested parties read it and find it useful.

Oh it's all too late for them, don't you see? They all believe their great dane can talk FFS. SAN? What SAN?

I like to juxtapose my weirdness with gritty realism. Bandit ducks will have feather diseases from living rough. Your spells may light up like a fluorescent tubes, but you are still wearing scavenged sandals that have given you flat feet due to your low strength and the weight of your armor and pack. Yeah, and just because you are an adventurer and sometimes a hero doesn't mean you can duck your financial obligations. Glorantha owes a lot to the Sword and Sorcery genre from its inception, but it is a different animal. Yes, there are axe armed barbarians stalking ruins filled with weird monsters that will make you do a horrified spit-take when you meet them, but those barbarians aren't hostile to magic, and in fact will likely have quite a bit of their own to buff their skills. Glorantha is also all about mythology being brought to life. Stepping onto the Hero Plane is every bit like when Dorothy wakes up in Oz and the film is in color. The spirit plane is a psychedelic nightmare that periodically morphs back into the plains of Prax (or wherever) like a peyote trip. When you meet a god, they morph between their aspects as you speak to them, often appearing to have multiple arms and faces. Chaos when you meet it physically blights these places like an ugly acidic stain that eats at reality. I find Glorantha works best when you merge the mundane and the fantastic. I mean, consider newtlings, they're kind of amazing little frog-guys, but you will still cuff them round the ear-holes when you discover that they have been noshing on fish guts that are supposed to be curing into garam for sale to the Lunar occupiers. You have to make rent like everyone else, and if you live in Glorantha, newtlings are nothing special. The pleasure and the shock of Glorantha is making the mundane fantastic and the fantastic mundane. Therein lies the frisson and the shock. Ultimately you come to think like a local.

Income is the money you earn. If you raid the Rubble and pull out 1000L, that is all income. The God Issaries himself keeps track of these things in his divine ledger, which Etyries still checks, and Styx help you if you come up short on your tithes when you die. That is where ghosts come from, rejected from their afterlife for double dealing the gods over a few measly coins when their eternity or rebirth was at stake. Only illuminates are immune to this.

Bronze Age ain't always Bronze Age. IMG bastard swords are a product of Jrusteli cavalry reforms, much like the stirrup and the chimney.

This is a great scenario btw. Loved it.

Well, as it turns out, the Empire has been experimenting with stomach size to walktapus flesh research for feeding their troops. Walktapi regenerate continuously, so wile they are subjected to stomach acid, they will never disappear completely, and the person consuming the walktapus flesh need never eat again thanks to chaotic regeneration, plus there is the added bonus that if they die, a walktapus will gradually spawn from their body, creating fresh headaches for the folk who killed them. Your broo breeding program is inspired Flaming Cat of Death, and I would personally bump you up the ranks of the Imperial bureaucracy if it were ACTUALLY based on merit rather than nepotism and prostitution, but feasibly we might be able to draw upon existing research to march excess walktapi into the maw of the bat. One hand washes the other...

I would suspect Maran Gor would be a good choice too. The Barren Earth.

Multiculting is a very expensive hobby. Each time you become an initiate, you have to spend 10% of your income on the cult in tithes. Obviously the dirty trick here is to become an illuminate. Consider the excess of time and funds that becoming a Priest or Lord involves however. Now admittedly if you reach an august rank, the temple likely covers your expenses so you won't starve, but if you have to spend 90% of your income on 1 cult, and 10% on the other, you have no beer money. You might as well commit hara kiri at that point (jk).

I suspect that there wouldn't be such a tradition at all if there were no effective cult to it. I suspect that you likely take a primary spirit patron, and then gain the others as associates.

They are certainly listed as 3 Spirit Deities in the Praxian traditions in Tales of the Reaching Moon 14 &15. If we add the Twin Stars into the mix, the tradition begins to seem quite large. I wonder if any of the other major deities of the Constellations are part of this tradition, and wonder how organized it might be. Clearly it is a shamanic tradition, and I would expect to see all the deities marked on Prax's Spirit Wall. The night sky is a powerful place, especially in Prax where the Sky Dome is so often clear and visible.

Death is a direction in Glorantha. Under the correct conditions you can walk back from Death to Life. It is likely that before the discovery of the Death Rune, it was far easier to return from Death, which was likely merely an extreme expression of the Underworld (before time). In some ways gods are eternal, but in others they are simply trapped in their addiction to power.

It does raise the question of whether the (Lunar pantheon)Twin Stars are part of the tradition too.