Darius West

20 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

 

1. Who defeated Him (Orlanth)?

Lots of people.  Yelm, Humakt, Trickster, Rufelza, just to name a few.  

20 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

 

1. I don't see where he ever admits he did something wrong.  To whom did Orlanth apologize, and what did he say?  There should be some "Bad Poetry" used for a formal Orlanth apology ritual.

Orlanth completely admits that killing Yelm was wrong, and even fixes the problem.

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

Kyger Litor dwells in the Underworld, outside of the realm of Time.

I've read both in different places.  The synthesis being that the basement of the Castle of Lead is in the Underworld.

On 1/5/2024 at 6:04 AM, Malin said:

I don't have much to add to all the excellent commentary so far, but I do detect a whiff of "Why is Orlanth the clear author Mary Sue when I don't like them." A similar flavor of the criticism I've seen leveraged against Argrath on the forum.

The fact is, the Orlanthi are a better choice for player character adventurers than Solar Pantheists.  Orlanthi are raised with a sense of agency.  Solar Pantheists are raised with a sense of the chain of command, and who they take orders from.  Lunars however are taught "An ye love Moonson, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.  Love is the law.  Love under Moonson. Moonson is watching you".  

As for Orlanth being a Mary Sue, whoever said that doesn't know what a Mary Sue is.  By definitions, your Mary Sue is a character who starts out with no flaws and all the benefits and is always right, and always succeeds.  Orlanth is none of those things.  Orlanth fails, and gets defeated, but perseveres against the odds.  Orlanth is the only god who ever admits he did something wrong too.  As for people sneering at Argrath, I prefer him to Moonson's thousand chaos loving faces, even though Argrath remains an enigma.  Real geniuses are often enigmas.

On 1/6/2024 at 4:03 AM, soltakss said:

A friend of ours used to go backpacking around the world every winter in the 80s and 90s. He went to rural Thailand and Vietnam, and spent a couple of nights in a mud hut village on stilts. The local pigs used to root around the houses, looking for goodies. The toilets were just holes in a small room in the hut, with the waste falling on the ground below the huts. Sometimes, the pigs got a bit eager. "What is the weirdest sexual experience you have ever had?" "Well, I was having a crap and this big, long tongue comes through the hole and ..."

After hearing that story, the Player of the King of Balazar banned all pigs from Dykene, Elkoi and Trilus.

 

I have a similar story about a family friend who went to a toilet in Calcutta on a hill.  Huge squealing and excited pigs slammed into the cyclone wire fence as he passed.  When he got to the top, he realized it was a long drop, and the pigs were down there leaping and snapping below him for the "prize".  Suffice to say, he "feared for his sporrin".  Not quite the same as your friend's "glory hole" experience.  Some say that the Aldryami have a similar outlook...  But those who speak such are tricksters, surely?

22 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I dunno man. Partly I like the trope so much I'd like to make special accommodations for it, but also partly I think the Compromise could include these visits if it's already part of their pre-existing actions and patterns - especially around Sacred Time or Holy Days. 

I don't think of it as complete incarnation or physical manifestation, more like a mini-heroquest visiting YOU, as it were.

I mean, gods traipsed around Kethaela during Belintar's time and that was a-ok.

Just trying to jog the creative faculties here.

I'm glad you feel that way.  On the other hand, I suppose that depends on whether you think Kyger Litor actually lives in the Castle of lead or not.  It is my understanding that deities are in a state of torpor most of the time.  I am glad you like the "divine stranger at the hearth" idea, but it is undeniable that the Great Compromise will change that dynamic from the way hospitality was managed on Earth.  I actually like Bohemond's reasoning, and the idea that this "divine stranger" is something that is alien to Glorantha because of the Compromise.  It makes both worlds more consistent and unique imo.  The Gloranthans can still have heroquesters showing up in place of the gods, and inhabited by the gods.  As one of the meanest tricks you can pull on a heroquester is to remind them that they aren't actually their deity (such that if you are persuasive enough they will fail on the spot), so in that sense they embody the god and are the divine visitor, but metaphorically, and yet also in reality, as they are acting out the archetype's story.  I'm sure, given time we could cobble together a theological justification for how a God can show up in disguise to someone's door, but I think when we uncover a philosophical "hard limit" like this, it is more interesting to uphold it.  I am arguing metaphorically "in favor of gravity".  Limits are good.  Flying all the time makes your legs weak.

In terms of his personality, the first thing to remember is that Argrath is a military genius.  He is slow to show his hand, and normally has a series of tricks in reserve for when things don't go his way.  Argrath is intensely intelligent, and can read a battlefield or a room with ease.  Argrath is illuminated, and that means that he is able to see opportunity in the sort of calamity that would drive everyone else to despair. His illumination also makes him seem mercurial.  Argrath is given to the awkward pause, and will stand observing his underlings until they start talking again out of sheer nervousness, often blurting out the truth.   Argrath has made an in-depth study of how the Lunar administration operates, and has a  fine sense of what they do well, and what they do poorly, and what he can copy, and what he must change.  Argrath has been leading warriors for a long time, but he is aware that logistics are every bit as important as actual combat.  He understands the value of bureaucrats and muleteers.  Argrath is also extremely well versed in the lore o Glorantha.  Yes, he is an opportunist, but that is born of being hounded by Lunar assassins, enslaved by Praxians, murdered by Harrek, and betrayed by Sartarites for coin.  Argrath would not be alive if he weren't a gifted student of human nature.  It is also worth pointing out that Argrath may well be an initiate of a great many cults, due to his illumination.  Storm Bull, Trickster, and Humakt are obvious choices, as well as Nysalor, apart from the obvious Orlanth.  Argrath is always interested in intrigues and gossip, and is likely bisexual.  Argrath considers loyalty to him as the most precious currency.  He is also sufficiently wise and self-serving to know to reward his followers with fresh problems.  Does he have a region that is giving him trouble?  Parcel it out to a successful commander as a "reward".

Great pictures, but you seem to have ignored the fact that the streets of Dykene, Trilus and Elkoi run thick with pig poop.

23 hours ago, Ageha said:

So, ultimately, is a textual reason ever given for why Peloria is so pathetic and why the Sky Gods are so incredibly weak?

As to why the Solar Pantheon seems to suck, well, it isn't dynamic and it doesn't embrace change.  If you don't change your tactics, you become predictable, and that makes you lose.  Dara Happa is hidebound, and the person of the Emperor is really the only hero of the story.  As with Yelm before his death and before the fall of the Spike, everything revolves around the ruler, and everyone else is barely a footnote.  Not so in Orlanthi society where respect for the individual is paramount and "nobody can make you do anything".  The other important thing about Peloria is that they embrace Empire and centralized authority, even if they are the ones being subjugated (for the most part).  Yes, we can point to the Sun Dragon of the Second Age, who sat as emperor for a time, and against whom the Solar Worshippers rebelled, and we can point to Jannisor who fought the Lunars, but for the most part they just want the feeling of security they get from knowing there is an Emperor in charge.

As for the Sky Gods being incredibly weak, I have to disagree.  Fire Elementals are the best elementals without a doubt.  Yelorna cultists come armed with a machinegun spell.  Sunbolt is stronger than Thunderbolt.  And frankly, impaling weapons do vastly more damage on an impale than slashing or bludgeoning weapons can generally hope to achieve.  The Phalanx formation is devastating.  I have pitted really well-geared and heavily experienced Humakti and Orlanthi  Rune levels against a phalanx and they couldn't cope with 8 pike attacks per round, despite their iron armor and shield spells combined.

The issue is that the Orlanthi embrace change.  Orlanth shows up with technical surprises, "Wandering Sun, Jealous Uncle, I have a new toy, see it?".  The Lunars also know the trick of technical surprises, and if anything, incorporate it into their worship even more than the Orlanthi, at least until Argrath comes along.    

11 minutes ago, Cassius said:

And so begins their full adult life. It's time to step out of the fringe and take their place in the life of the community through their work and their devotion to a god.

This is a very involved and time consuming process.  Consider the lost labor of sending the boys away for an extended period.  I can see 2 years of intense survival training being desirable for some clans, such as War Clans, but sending the boys off to live like Gagarthi may have very negative consequences too.  I am not calling it implausible, I just wonder how many clans could afford to do this, or would want to?  I could see them being sent off for a season, but not 2 years.  This is also not in keeping with the Boys in the Pit story of Orlanthi initiation.  Personally I imagined initiation to be more ritualized.  I know this style of initiation is something done by cultures in our world, so I am not disparaging it, but it seems a bit too long, and a bit too random.

On 12/27/2023 at 3:54 AM, Bohemond said:

That raises an interesting question. Many real world belief systems include the idea that divine beings occasionally visit incognito to test hospitality (Judaism, early Christianity, Greek and Norse paganism are the ones I can think of off the top of my head). But Gloranthan deities can't do this anymore--it would violate the Compromise. So do Gloranthans actually have the idea of 'the god disguised as a stranger'? 

That is a really good point.  You're right.  On reflection, I don't think they would. 

At best they may have a "Before Time" story within their Grey Age mythology about the Gods coming to visit, but at best the current situation would only include a servant of the deity coming to visit and report back.  While the Divine Stranger may have been a motivation for hospitality in Earth mythologies, it really doesn't fit the Gloranthan paradigm.  Well spotted Bohemond.

The cover looks great.  I am eager to read the contents come March.

2 hours ago, Bohemond said:

It helps to keep in mind that granting hospitality is doing the guest a favor, and it creates a status imbalance in which the host is of higher status than the guest.

By helping the guest, you bring honor to yourself and your people, but you also honor the gods in the form of "the stranger at the hearth", which gods who test mortals often arrive as.

It never occurred to me before this moment that when we couldn't find my Great Uncle's grave number, my whole family had literally lost the plot. (True story btw).

On 12/9/2023 at 3:22 AM, Oldskolgmr said:

(P.S. I do love Greg Stafford's writings, but KOS is his one work that I find almost impenetrable.)

This response surprised me Oldskolgmr, but I'm not going to dismiss your opinion at all.  Instead I am going to explain why I like KoS, and how I read it and even enjoy it ( I really enjoyed it btw).

I have a background in history, so I quickly cottoned on to the fact that GS was presenting us not with the story of Argrath, but with Primary Source Documents and such sources as might be considered relevant if we were going to the original documents, having obtained reliable and deep translations of them.  They are not going to tell us what to think, they are telling us what people at the time thought about Argrath, and what supporting evidence from the time exists to explain what he did and how he lived.

Think of it a bit like investigating the life and times of Alaric the First, King of the Visigoths.  We have a few Roman sources, but there are few if any quotes from Alaric's own mouth, only accounts of his life and activities, largely written by Romans, culminating with his sack of Rome in 410AD.  So how do we reconstruct Alaric from these sources?  What can we learn?  Well, in combination with other literature from the period, we can begin to put together a picture of the man, but we aren't being spoon-fed, we're doing history. 

That is the KoS experience for me. It is also filled with a variety of little facts and insights into Glorantha that clarify things that are only mentioned in passing elsewhere.  I think the document makes a really interesting jumping off point for writing a Glorantha version of Pendragon's "The Boy King" Campaign.

So when we are reading KoS, we are scholars in the distant future looking at documents gathered during the reign of King Harshax (Belintar?), who is trying to reconstruct lost history after the death of Literacy (Lhankor Mhy bit the dust during the failed Arachne Solara's Web ritual).  These fragments from hundreds of years past are all but a state secret, and in an age where literacy is barely re-emerging, this knowledge has immense importance.  It feels like we are in a freeform Glorantha RPG just reading it, to me.  Then again, I can stomach the Silmarillion, so perhaps I am just a mutant grognard with weird esoteric tastes ?🤔

Now I can put a Face to the Name when we say Mark Smylie.  Thanks for that.  Mark's art has done so much to bring RQ and Glorantha to life.  However much we write about a place, these images convey so much, and Mark's setting specific and lore focused pictures have made RQG and other products so beautiful to look at, while remaining consistent with Glorantha.  RQ hasn't always had such great artists (*coughDobysky cough cough), and Mark is a blessing who has done the game proud.  I'm so glad you got the award Mark, and please keep up the great work; your contributions are deeply appreciated. 👍

On 12/18/2023 at 2:37 PM, pachristian said:

I run a game set in Pavis. The game is set in the 'classic' period of 1615-1621+. The characters have been adventuring together for several years. One player character, Dr. Rhonic, is very active in the cult of Pavis, and is likely to become Champion of Pavis soon. He is regarded as the leader of the team, and the team is known as "Rhonic's Rangers". After a recent adventure, the team was awarded a banner with a spirit. This banner now houses the team's Wyter. 

The story behind the banner is that it was the unit standard of a Pavic peltast unit during the Arrowsmith Dynasty. The standard was recovered from the rubble by adventurers, the spirit restored, and the banner awarded to the Rangers.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you in advance!

I have a couple of suggestions:

Generally I favor either a Zebra Stripe as the back pattern, and/or a crenelated wall pattern, over yellow sand to mark the defensive  of Pavis.

The main action could be:

(a) a stylized crossbow with an obsidian tipped quarrel (Showing God Learner and Draconic origins).

(b) a faceless jolanti pitching a boulder like a rock (the faceless statue)

(c) a stylized large fist scattering Praxians off their mounts

(d) A dwarf presenting a human with a crossbow.

(e) three yellow fletched arrows entwined by a Water Serpent.  (we are Kuschile Archers associated with the Pavic Earth cult)

(f) a flying wyrm hurling a lightning bolt

(g) a trident (we are fishermen)

(h) a smiling mouth with golden teeth, except the front ones are missing. (We hate Jaldon)

Having the whole thing surmounted by a blue water dragon head a la Svenson's dragon head banner could look good and would represent the Zola Fel, whose fisherfolk were likely where the peltasts were drawn from.

23 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

There was a practical experiment to reproduce Egyptian mummification, and their conclusion was that when it comes to working with skin, bronze sucks and obsidian rules. Even today, when you want a super fine edge in an experiment, crackin* glass in certain ways is very useful.

Again, agreed.  I heard apparently MIT (afaik) created a machine that drops glass coke bottles to shatter and produce a single micron edge that lands in a painted circle nearby every time.  They are used as scalpels for microsurgery.

On the other hand, the Lunars have their whole "drive you crazy" line of magic like Lunes and Mindblast.  I have heard that they regard having these effects cast on them as a great aid to developing their Illumination, and only barbarians consider them attack spells.  

On 12/21/2023 at 2:54 AM, Scornado said:

If the senior Rune Priest of a temple dies unexpectedly, what happens to the temple wyter?  Does it hang around for 7 days (during which the priest could be resurrected) and the new senior priest consequently has some time to "adopt" it?  (What happens if it is adopted and then the priest is resurrected?)

A wyter is a spirit of a group.  It doesn't specifically "belong" to the High Priest, it is just that the High Priest is presently the person (or one of many persons) with access to it.  When the High Priest dies, the wyter waits around for another group member to contact it.  The wyter is only likely to dissipate when the group dissipates.  Wyters are pretty much in all respects the same as egregores

That's my 2 cents on the matter.

On 12/17/2023 at 10:12 PM, Scotty said:

The easiest way to look at this, is does the spell act as armor, absorbing damage? If so, it's ignored, if not, it's not. As usual specific spells may overrule this.

• Shield - ignored by crits
• Protection - ignored by crits
• Ward Against weapons - does not act as armor, unaffected by crits
• Dampen Damage - does not act as armor, unaffected by crits
• Stabilize Iron - special effect, armor is unaffected by criticals.

Note that even if the armor still effects, the maximum special damage will very likely overwhelm it.

As always, GMs are free to run the game as wish and ignore the rules.

I have no dog in this fight.

This approach makes sense to me.

I like the fact that Sorcery has found ways of countering criticals but Divine magic hasn't.  A sorcerer, especially a godlearner, would see their friend be killed by a crit, and set about trying to understand the principles involved so they could create a work-around.  Gods care about their worshippers, but are essentially trapped in the past, and so cannot solve modern problems the way a sorcerer can.  It makes sorcery more relevant.

On 12/22/2023 at 7:19 AM, Akhôrahil said:

Better, even, for copper.

Enchant Stone would be super useful for some cultures!

I totally agree.  Actually you can get flint/obsidian/ natural glass heads to 1 micron edges, which you can't do with metals.  If it was possible to enchant such material to increase its durability, natural glass could potentially outperform the metals as edged weapons. Even better, anyone can potentially use stone tools without penalty, so you could have everyone spending 1 POW to have a reusable super-sharp flint spear at their disposal.

On 12/18/2023 at 3:25 PM, g33k said:

Illuminates, I think, are less susceptible to madness.

Well, remember that Illuminates seem to have no problem with accepting contradictions.  War is Peace.  Freedom is Slavery.  Wealth is Poverty.  All this is mirrored in the Lunar state, and all you need to do is love Moonson and do as you are told.  So arguably they cannot go insane, as that moonboat has sailed.

While we are on the topic, has anyone ever run a scenario in Winter Ruins?  Is there any "official documentation" about it ?  I think I heard vampires hang out there from somewhere?  I find that difficult to imagine given how cruel it would be to their already taxed magic points.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Always. If you're not ready for adulthood, you're certainly not ready to enter the mysteries of a cult (nor will you have the knowledge and clan markings to protect you when the bad spirits or demons come into the ceremonies).

There is always an exception to a rule.  I have an example of one.  A boy playing hide and seek stumbles into sacred Death Ground, and as a result unknowingly becomes a Deadeye, i.e. someone who can (unwillingly and uncontrollably) kill with a glance.  He basically has unlimited access to Sever Spirit that activates against any living thing he can see.  When I ran this childhood scenario, at first a trickster arrived tried to "steal death" from him to solve the problem and gain the Strike Rune Spell.  The trickster failed, and so he had to be initiated into Humakt while blindfolded in order to gain control over the power.

On 12/18/2023 at 5:53 PM, g33k said:

By my reading, these are mostly very Cult-specific.

The Boys in the Pits story isn't particularly cult specific.  I think you get a few to choose from.   That of course raises other problems however, namely,

(a) what about other lesser deities like Yinkin, Heler, Elmal etc. 

And

(b) do you do your adulthood initiation before your cult initiation.  I would say unequivocally you need to be an adult BEFORE you can initiate into a cult, UNLESS there is a major reason why you need to initiate early.