Darius West

LOL, that assumes that the temple doesn't claim the funds on their behalf "for the upkeep of the priestess, and charitable causes they support". Chalana Arroys don't fight using weapons, they fight using proxies, and money is a good proxy. Of course YGMV, but bitter, corrupt, money grubbing healers are more fun and funny imo. There is a lot of bad behavior not specifically covered in the oaths that healers swear.

I like the terms "meldekery", and "meldeking", as well as "arkatry", "Lhanking", and "Chalanatry" as suspect but acceptable in-pantheon practices of sorcery. I could imagine the Lhankor Mhytes calling their practices "philosophizing", or even "sophistry" for sorcerous illusions, while the Chalana Arroys might call their sorcery use "Western Medicine". Obviously the Invisible Orlanthi would not call themselves meldeks, and I am inclined to believe they would call their sorcery something along the lines of "Zzabury" if they are using slang, and "reasoned wonders" or "logical miracles" in a more formal sense. When other sects of the Invisible God are involved, it becomes variously "Rokarlotry", or "a-hresting", or even "Snodalism". Of course the general abuse term of "Krjalking" probably applies to any sorcery associated with chaos, including Lunar Sorcery.

It has been said elsewhere that Belintar bears a great similarity to Ephraim Waite from "The Thing at the Doorstep", in that he is (LOL spoiler alert) a body-hopping sorcerer rather than a real god. Of course with enough magical sacrifice and a few useful trinkets, even an ogre can become a deity... Looking at you, Moonson. It is also pretty likely that when Jar-Eel assassinated Belintar that he was consigned to a Lunar Hell, which is why he didn't return from the underworld. Of course... ...The rather under-veiled suggestion is that after the reign of Argrath and the fall of the Moon that Belintar manages to return and to found the Harshax dynasty, ruling over a barbaric and largely illiterate people, but helping to re-civilize Glorantha, if in a totalitarian fashion.

Arguably, given the strictures of the cult and the implied requirement that Chalana Arroys heal for free, the cult is already too close to slavery. What are their pay and conditions like? Bronze Age at best, Stone Age at worst. The cult claims that healing is a calling, not a profession, but isn't that what all exploitative employers tell their members? Remember also that Chalana Arroys are associated with the Cult of Storm Bull, which is a universal cult among the Praxians. As such, I have always GMed the Chalana Arroys as being largely sacred and external to tribal conflicts. Their green sash is a universally respected symbol of complete neutrality, and any slave who is able to earn a green sash is automatically freed. Of course wearing a green sash to which one is not entitled is a similarly extreme taboo that deserves a deeply unpleasant public spectacle of a death for the amusement of the offended Praxian clan.

I believe that the SIZ stat is long overdue for a rules rationalization. I have also spoken to Chaosium members who have run the numbers for Call of C'thulhu (where you are most likely to meet a SIZ 100+ creature) and they too have never felt the numbers were entirely satisfactory. I believe that if some clever biologist wants to tackle the problem, they could relieve many people of this misery.

I have heard religious scholars of all the major faiths also make the exact opposite argument, that their religions are in fact completely logically consistent, and based on that you know them to be true. I am inclined more to your position however Ali. I would also point out that there are no major religious texts that haven't been tampered with during their histories to insure that their more glaring plot holes were removed. Either that or some major explanatory stories were introduced to cover the errors... despite the fact that the errors tended to be about as effective as covering one's nakedness with a kleenex, and raise far more questions that they answer. I want a form of mysticism that can be used to make a workable player character in RQG. I want mysticism that can stand in contrast to the other RQG magic systems, and which can integrate with the listed cultures in unique and interesting ways. My suggestions were to suggest a list of powers that could be used to make that possible. I am familiar with real world mystics of course, but that is not what I was talking about. Mysticism is described as a 4th form of magic, distinct from but not necessarily more powerful than the others in Glorantha. Thirdly, and point of fact, Carmelite nuns likely to be sent on overseas deployment often take womens' self defense training, which is a martial art, and I know this because I have a friend who used to train them. Also apparently you are not aware of Pongyi thaing aka Bando thaing, which was developed by the monk Upali in Burma. While his martial art is now gone, it definitely existed.

That very much depends on the faith in question. But yes, pretty much every heresy starts as a difference of opinion over plot holes, as you suggest.

The moral objection is quite a separate issue to my mind I assure you. Please don't be confused about my position on that point. What I don't see in any Nysalor cult write-up is any mention of meditation. Instead we have riddles and a chance of awakening at sacred time. That isn't mysticism. Mysticism should be definitely about meditation techniques, austerities (if that is part of the mystical tradition in question), martial arts (ditto) and mystical feats. Yes, philosophy and revelatory wisdom are also important, but on their own they should not constitute a mystical tradition, or all Lhankor Mhyites would be mystics, and they are not, they are more likely to be sorcerers.

I have no problem with characters interacting the the celebs of the Hero Wars, as that should happen, but killing Harrek seems a bit ridiculous. Also Stop Resurrection will not stop divine intervention, so Harrek has no problems as basically the polar bear god is his slave and he has a functionally infinite POW to make the divine intervention roll with.

Well said and I agree. Mysticism needs to be treated as its own distinct magic system which is integrated with the other three but distinct from them. There is discussion that mysticism will be related to the infinity rune, and that seems a good and necessary thing, as how better to interact with cosmic one-ness? It is pretty clear that the meditation skill needs to play a major part in how "mystic feats"(mystic magical effects), are performed. As to what these feats should be, well, at lower levels they should start with the ability to ignore various forms of discomfort such as lack of sustenance, extreme temperature, exhaustion and sources of physical damage. This will likely also apply to magic cast at the mystic, as the mystic is able to ignore it or see it for the distraction it is, and undo it. Now typically mystics have a number of means of travel. They will start with basic exercises that make their bodies light, allowing them superior stealth, then move to levitation, then telekinesis, then to flight via cloud trapeze (a la Journey to the West), and then to teleportation and even bi-location. There also needs to be provision for martial arts, which will mainly be relatively low on the mysticism scale. Upper level mysticism will include the ability to enter the various mystical realms with comparative ease. Much of mysticism will also be about perfecting one's philosophical understanding of the infinite union that is being sought, as that understanding becomes the lens through which mysticism is performed. I would also argue that mystics would be more interesting if they needed threshold experiences where they encounter creatures that personify their inner demons and philosophical problems in a tangible if mythical form that they needed to overcome in some fashion to progress. I would also argue that mystics likely have some ability with telepathy, and this allows them to calm wild beasts by sending them calm thoughts and so forth. Now every culture on Glorantha will have some overlap with the others. For example, Dayzatar is unequivocally a mystical cult that is tied to the solar pantheon. The Larnstings are an Orlanthi mystical order tied to the Mobility rune, and of which the original King Sartar was a member. It is possible that the Old Temple of the Wind also has Storm Rune mystics. I would also argue that Saint Xemela who healed an entire city at the cost of her own life, a feat that the local sorcery could not accomplish, was a mystic of the West. Obviously the Lunars have a number of cults that have taken the basics of Nysalorism, and mixed in Kralori mysticism gleaned from the Red Headed Caravan of Pent, and created a number of quasi theist but also quasi mystical cults in the Lunar Empire. The Taraltarans seem to be a more mystical less theistic form of this, with a scimitar based martial art to boot. Now dragonewts are something else again, as they are born into an extremely advanced mystical training program and are the only race on Glorantha that doesn't die, but instantly reincarnates. They are advancing towards becoming dragons, and have access to dragon powers, but using them retards their progress. The living dragonewts are also all failures who have been at that path for hundreds if not thousands of years, when during the EWF multiple humans managed to complete it, while some dragonewts still don't understand the concept of eating food. Draconic reincarnation is likely the product of a true dragon's mysticism protecting their progeny.

Well Patanjali is pretty good source material for some parts of mysticism, and it certainly has solid info and a broad cultural reach, influencing Indonesia and Southeast Asia, as well as India, so that's a very good choice. On the other hand, the system it describes has precious little in common with Nysalorism, surely you must see that? Nysalor's tradition is essentially a bad parody of Zen; it has no explicit meditative tradition, no transcendent feats, just a series of koans that don't lead to a true Samadhi, but to a form of religious parasitism as the outcome.

It isn't about agreeing or disagreeing, it is about the treatment of the available information not being treated consistently. In short, there is plenty of evidence that Nysalor worship is dramatically different in its present form to the information we have on mystics from Kralorela and the East Isles, but we are in danger of getting a magic system for mysticism which is unable to reconcile this fact.

The aim is to keep the story internally consistent as an act of world building. It is a very good way to avoid plot holes.

Actually, moral correctness is very important in mysticism. If something is morally correct it is much harder to refute and refutation is the core of Gloranthan mysticism we are privy to.

I think you can sit a duck on a pony without much issue. Ducks can also likely ride bolo lizards, impalas, and ostriches, as they are of similar height to the pygmies. As to chariots, well, there is no reason why a duck on an elevated platform can't potentially manage a chariot pulled by normal horses. As to water chariots... why not water horses? Or admit you really want ducks on jet-skis and invent a reason for there to be jet-skis. By and large you don't want to have carnivorous animals as mounts, as they will eat all your livestock and leave you impoverished.

Consider Sorcery. In RQ3 you could bring items to life with the Create Familiar spell, as famously demonstrated in "Strangers in Prax". Of course that might be a bit too familiar. The story is based on the myth of Pygmalion and Galatea, and in that myth it was Aphrodite who breathed life into Galatea, so Uleria would be the go-to culprit.

Heyyy... Don't say that... Ralzakark is every bit as much a son of the Red Goddess as any other emperor.

Well of course you can... but isn't that the very definition of egregious munchkinery? I mean, the fact is that PCs can't really follow that line of progression because it would take a decade IRL of legitimate skill increase rolls after weekly sessions to get to 400% in a major skill, and most games don't last that long.

Well, the simple answer is that Harrek will either bring himself back from the dead, or his crewmates will do so via a healer. You might have some luck trying to lock him in a Lunar Hell, but really I pity the Lunar Hell's guardians more than I pity Harrek in such a case. I think that killing Orlanth by taking Whitewall was easier than what your players are proposing. In the unlikely event that your players have Sartarite characters, they will be considered traitors and cast from their cults and their clans for the attempt, if not the actual success. As for the political ramifications of Harrek's death, it would mean that Sartar would lose quickly, unless Argrath could keep Gonn Orta in the field and be lucky enough to somehow kill Jar-Eel together, or perhaps she had an unlucky episode with a spell of mass destruction like a dragon burn, or the Earthshakers. For the most part, she'll live and Sartar will fail.

Mysticism is discussed in the Stafford Library extensively and should be a discrete form of magic on its own according to those sources. There is no reason to suppose that different schools of mysticism will bear any similarity to Nysalorism, which ostensibly exists to allow chaos worshippers to infiltrate non-chaotic cultures undetected for plot purposes, and which had its mystical core destroyed as false by Arkat, and fell into a very similar class of mystical error to Avanapdur who was shown to be false and ended by Mashunasan. The fundamental magic discussed for Mysticism by Greg was Refutations, and admittedly more needed to be done on that, but if you are going to tell me that Nysalorism is your template for Kralorela and the East Isles's versions of Mysticism which hundreds if not thousands of years of entirely independent history, I and others will be very disappointed. I mean, there are still people annoyed about the sorcery rules, but I am hoping that a big book about the West will fix that. In the mean time don't double down on a mistake due to some sunk costs fallacy.

So... Killing a superhero is about the same as killing a deity... but that's not egregious munchkinery...? Harrek likely has skills in the 1000% range, and the literal power of an arctic bear god, not to mention a crew of the most dangerous personal retainers in Glorantha. But yeah, you can just kill him. That's not a colossal to impossible undertaking. This is a guy who can personally slaughter a couple of the best lunar regiments a day, but you seriously think that it isn't unreasonable to kill him with ordinary characters? Harrek is basically the Marvel Superhero Wolverine, but with more power than Thor and Doctor Strange thrown in for good measure. If he went up against an M1A1 Abrhams Tank regiment, he'd win. Even Jar-Eel the Razoress can't kill him, and she's a goddess incarnate, but your players are going to do it no probs. Let me say it again EGREGIOUS MUNCHKINERY.

I had Gringle end up in Dizbos in Esrolia, slotting in with a contingent of Sartarite refugees who had been sent to the Esrolian hinterland by a sympathetic Esrolian noble house with interests in the area to bump up regional production and increase local population. As to Piku, I had him go to Refuge, as there was a rumor of a fellow Third Eye Blue cultist made good in the area. The rumor proves false, and they move to Mt Passant where their iron working skills are valued by the local authorities who fast track Piku's guild papers in return for guaranteed training of apprentices. Ultimately Yaku and Wakapo get rolled into the Sartarite War effort after the Dragonrise.

There is something called egregious munchkinery...

So what you are saying is that it isn't official policy yet.

In the case of Biturian Varosh playing Orlanth, the expectation for the Yelmalios was they wanted a weak adversary they could defeat easily.