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Nevermet

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Everything posted by Nevermet

  1. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    I need to re-read this thread this weekend
  2. Dumb theory from another thread: Lodril is Ganesatarus. Here's my post: First, this is a Spolite argument. Spolitism is a complicated religious tradition that was, as far as I can tell, a re-engineering of Pelandan myth at the end of the First Age where the forces of Darkness and the Underworld were marshalled together to defeat the Dara Happans and other post-Nysaloran religions based on Sky / Fire. IMG, Spolitism is a religion that is deeply grounded in propitiating dark and powerful beings in the world, and also acknowledging the power of the Underworld and the inevitable goal of everyone and everything. It knows how to appease Resentful Deities. Gerra knows suffering, Natha demands human sacrifices according to the Old Ways, and Ganestoros is the God who Gives & Takes. Name I can imagine the same deity being named both “Turos” and "Estoro" (YarGan's name for him). "Ganestoro” is just “Estoro” with “Gan" as a prefix, like the many prefixes Turos gets in Pelanda. The Gan Hills are a border between Spol, Eol, and Erigia in the 3rd Age. In the 1st Age, they would have been the edge Spol. So, we’re talking about the Turos of Gan Hills when we are talking about Ganestoro. "Ganesaturus" is apparently a name of Carmanian origin, or possibly a Dara Happen version of “Ganestoro.” Earth not Underworld According to the Guide, Enneserah in Fronela worships “Ganestos” as the patron deity of miners, as he stole secrets from Dwarves. According to the Entekosiad, Estoro lives underground and his voice is heard through cracks in cave walls. Additionally, he can appear in smoke from a firepit, as evidenced from the Entekosiad story of Purendi. So, Ganestoro is associated with being below ground, but there are no references to him and the Underworld. He is associated with earth and smoke (but not directly fire). Personality Ganestoro is the God who Gives and Takes. He is an enemy God because, frankly, he’s completely unregulated. He does what he wants, how he wants. His vengeance is disproportionate. He is greedy and takes all the animals and grain for himself. Turos is the God of Power. Not justice, not balance, not wisdom… but power. He does a lot, and not all of it is well thought out. He sees the divine flower of heaven, desires it, and plucks it without knowing how to keep it alive. Lodril is infamously the brother of Yelm who, euphemistically, lacks impulse control. Put bluntly, Lodril is a violent rapist whose desires and emotions get him in trouble. …These sound awfully similar to me. The Aspects of Lodril / Turos. GanEstoro is the “lower” Turos/Lodril. Where Yelm disintegrated and Bijiif waited in ashes, Ganestoro, the extinguished Lodril, the Black Turos, was capriciousness for its own sake. Ganestoro did not take to please himself, he took to hurt others. While Turos slept (enslaved by Argan Argar and others), GanEstos sat upon is black, extinguished volcano and took. How Does Idovanus Fit Into This? According to GRoY’s description of Carmanian mythology, Idovanus & Ganesatarus are brothers, and Yelm is the eye of Idovanus that fell to earth. Ganesaturus, a great black dragon, was destroyed by Idovanus, save for 1 piece that fell to earth as an insect, and which regrew into Ganesatarus. And so I say to you: Yelm threw his brother Lodril out of heaven for his desires, an act that both punished him and gave him over to his desires even more. He was the Free Father, until other deities and enslaved him. He gave comfort to the Kachisti, and Zzabur punished him. Eventually, his fires grew low and he knew hate. And GanEstoro was reborn.
  3. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    I know I said I wouldn't defend my silliness, but that is not the Silly Way! 🤪 ...I will have something over in the Dumb Theory thread soon.
  4. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    Ha! A few years back, I had to make a choice between doing Manirian Scratchpads or Carmanian (especially Spolite) scratchpads. I don't regret the choice, but I'm still deeply fascinated by western Peloria.
  5. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    Generally an indicator someone made a wrong turn or twenty.
  6. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    To elaborate, a while back I was wondering around here about what illumination is in all its forms, and the question came up how compatible illumination was with western religion & magic. The answer I've been tentatively subscribing to is that it could in principle, but that Godlearnerism, with its focus on being able to perfectly absorb everything into a rationalistic or materialistic worldview, was not going to be it. ....I am unsure if this forces me to rethink things
  7. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    I completely forgot about this
  8. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    (More seriously: There are most definitely secrets about the West in the Black Horse County, the type of secrets that people hope they never need to know)
  9. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    That's pretty much my thinking. Just as Yelm can be broken into a myriad of component deities, so can Lodril / Turos. There's Turos, ChekTuros, ErskiTuros, DedaddiTuros, HerraTuros, KetTuros... and GanesTuros, GanestTuros is the Turos of the Gan Hills that create the Northern border of Spol. He is the Turos who is the Shadow of Idovanus. He is the Turos who Gives and Takes, the completely bitter bastard left over after being imprisoned and enslaved by apparently half the cosmos, who eventually just goes Fuck It and tries to take over after becoming an illuminated black dragon. This is me, btw, at my most absurd and unhinged. I will make no attempt to defend this silliness.
  10. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    Hrestoli Knight: "Well sage, what have you discovered?" Sage: "Well... the good news is that it appears there is a near full account of how to reach back that far." Hrestoli: "EXCELLENT! Who has it?" Sage: *Gulp* Hrestol: ....? Sage: The Atroxic Church. Hrestoli: Well, f###.
  11. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    This fits my (very) dumb theory that Ganesatarus is actually an aspect of Lodril.
  12. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    If true, then that means a repaired World Machine means Glorantha becomes ... Well, I doubt it would sustain human life as we understand it. It also means that stealing from Mostal means breaking the world machine a little bit, moving bits where they don't belong, etc. As for the relationship between the Malkioni and the Mostali, I don't have time to re-read Revealed Mythologies for a few days. Also, if I remember the newer material on Malkion that Jeff has shared, it implies Malkion came later than Zzabur or Mostal
  13. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    One of my favourite things about the Guide is that every chapter has a "The Hero Wars Begin" sidebar. Even if (especially because?) they are rarely fleshed out, it creates a great base for campaigns set anywhere in Glorantha.
  14. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    Yeah, even if Turos and Lodril were viewed as different gods in the 1st Age, they're the same guy now. And so on.
  15. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    *Googles* Oh, yeah..... I'm willing to bet the difference between Rakenveg and Venegdel in the eyes of 3rd Age Pelorians is the difference between Mercury & Hermes.
  16. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    But yeah, Dara Happa as a culture is much more "anti-ruckus" than the Orlanthi in their worldview. For the Orlanthi, there's a place for tricksters, just as violence is always an option. The DH, however, would be obsessed with a toxic rhetoric of purity (if I may put it in modern terms) that would just look silly to most 3rd Age Heortlings.
  17. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    I know there's VenegDel the Burning Hare in Pelanda. I could believe Lodrili in the Dara Happa countryside who live down to all the negative stereotypes about the Lodrili worship it / propitiate it.
  18. Is there a single best place to go for a timeline of the 3rd Age, or at least since circa 1600 ST?
  19. Nevermet

    Solar Campaign

    IMG, they recognized each other, producing immediate hostility, but this is part of a larger "why doesn't it snow in Maniria" rant I have.
  20. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    Also, regarding Lodril, IIRC, according to some Fronelan myths, he stole the secret of iron from the Mostali. I wonder if stealing the secret of iron means Lodril learned sorcery. (I assume this lead to the creation of the Third Eye Blue Kingdom, but that's conjecture) (Also, seriously, Lava Boy really got around).
  21. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    That's a good dumb theory. I think mine is coming from the way I've been thinking of the Godlearners being dismissive of personality to the point of disrespect (effectively being anti-Arkati wizards)
  22. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    Also... is it a new dumb theory that the 3 points of the Law Rune are Mostal, Zzabur, and Malkion? Or is that old, and I forget where I read it? Either way, they're an interesting triad for sorcery: Material, Energy, & Personality.
  23. Nevermet

    Ancient West

    Do you have a cite for this? I'm trying to get a better handle on the Holy Country. As for everything else... I feel bad because I don't have anything to add, but thanks for this thread.
  24. One of the things that is truly liberating when writing up setting info for Glorantha is that one gets to replace "So what ACTUALLY happened?" with the easier and more fun, "What did this specific culture think happened?"
  25. Dumb theory: Slontos sank because the Godlearners tried to reach Erenplose / Porlufta, and failed miserably. This is a dumb theory because it is waaaaaay out on a limb. Seshnela just got shatered by purple giants. The Archduke of Slontos was kinda desperate, and he was hoping a city that survived the anger of the Sea Gods could help them I suggest illumination was necessary to enter Erenplose. Getting to Erenplose appears to be absurdly difficult, and the last person who did it was the Palangio the Iron Vrok. However, the GLs were not really big on illumination They wanted / needed a purely materialistic / sorcerous solution. Enter the Zistorites and the Order of Purification, which claimed to have discovered the "purification rune" Chaos, argued somebody, was imbalanced and impure disorder. Or, put another way, purified chaos was disorder. Given this argument, then forms of magic that involved chaos (like illumination) could be reorganized as disorder, which could be manipulated in clean, sorcerous ways without worrying about illumination The purpose of the Trickster College of Thanor was to study disorder If they could prove that disorder was purified chaos, then they could organize illumination within their systematic proofs, material analysis of forces, and logic. The Archduke, his wizards, and the faculty of the Trickster College began their ritual disorder sorcery to contact / invade Erenplose to seek its help / take its secrets. The result: Eurmal laughed, and freed the land goddesses.
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