RogerDee

I have copies of French version in pdf, and it is amazing and also ocr.

On 3/6/2021 at 7:07 PM, MoonRightRomantic said:

I think that misunderstands the cosmological constraints that Nephilim setup. All of the elements are derived from Solar-Ka, each representing a fraction of its infinite possibility. This is a key conceit of the setting from which other aspects follow.

It does not have to remain that way if it is re-imagined.

Not the least of which if it was re-imagined it would allow the easily incorporation of Immortal Invisible War, Fireborn, and of course Highlander all relatively easily with some redesign.

19 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I am quoting you - you called it bloat and bad design. As far as I can see there are no other game designers of note on this thread. I see nothing to gain by "consolidating the magic system" or having generic spells that you can then "bespoke". My opinion on mechanical consistency for magic is pretty much the same as my opinion of mechanical "game balance" for cults. I care about "setting balance" - does one cult have accessible power that doesn't work with how it is presented in the setting. But whether one cult has a spell similar (but not identical) to another spell is simply not a "problem" that requires a fix.

No Jeff, what you are saying is somewhat disingenuous here. I did call it bloat, absolutely right; but the lack of consolidation I did not call that a design flaw.

11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think the quirky variety of spells, and the lack of consistency in effect-per-point, is part of RuneQuest's charm. I am aware that it is one of the reasons that RuneQuest, and also Glorantha, is not everyone's cup of tea.

This is the D100 designer that said pointed out the lack of consistency, and they have never written any kind of D100 game in his life.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?author=Simon Phipp

Oh....wait....it appears that he might have.

11 hours ago, RogerDee said:

Not really, that is a design flaw, and something it has in common with Exalted, in that charms are not consistant.

Same should be true here.

And this was my response is above.  Which if true, in that spells design and mechanics are inconsistent I did absolutely say was a design flaw. The two points  are not the same thing, never have been, never will be.

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

OK, so you'd prefer spells to be reduced to what you consider their "essential features" (it is some kind of energy projectile that does damage, it increases a characteristic, it provides some kind of armor, etc.) and consider RuneQuest's focus being how Gloranthans would group spells (rather than you) to be bad design

On the grounds I never said it was bad design - way to go taking the wrong end of context. What I did say was a design flaw was in there was no consistency in the rules of how the magic spells seem to be put together. And need I point out that this was a flaw pointed out out by another D100 Game Designer - not by me. My original premise was about consolidating the magic system.

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

OK, so you'd prefer spells to be reduced to what you consider their "essential features" (it is some kind of energy projectile that does damage, it increases a characteristic, it provides some kind of armor, etc.) and consider RuneQuest's focus being how Gloranthans would group spells (rather than you) to be bad design

Keeping core parts of the spells would be better, yes. Then include full rules of how to best bespoke say a protection spell, such that players can really make it sing in their game. If someone wants a shield of fire, great; or one of rose, fine; or one composed of writhing snakes. Brilliant!

But to my knowledge, the rules do not go into enough detail on this, unless I have missed something?

1 hour ago, ffilz said:

Or another story, this from a different game system, Arcana Unearthed (an alternate "Players Handbook for D&D 3.0). That system has some energy spells that are unified, in fact, you get to decide the energy type at casting time. And guess what happens. Ooh, we're fighting something immune to fire, I'll cast lightning. Heck, don't know if it has immunity and we don't know it has a vulnerability? Cast the energy type least likely to have resistance. No, I didn't really like that. It was annoying (despite how much otherwise I enjoyed the system).

I know you were trying to clarify, but this misses the point of what I'm saying - and it may be how i was saying it....not sure. If you are casting fire bolt or lightning bolt - they are different spells but under the umbrella of bolt. So you can know one, but may not know both. But if the player knows both, then they can cast either.

Just now, jajagappa said:

Yes, could, but overall strikes me as boring. 

The variety of spells, differences and nuances between different elements, powers, and magic systems etc. are part of what I enjoy.  And where it is the same spell, e.g. Shield, it's one spell. 

Shield though could literally be anything. Shield of fire, ice, light, scorpions. Literally anything.

10 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes really.

That is an opinion.

Nope, rules need to be consistent.

All my post was a question, and see if people thought there were too many spells and see if anyone had thought of other ways to do it.

15 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think the quirky variety of spells, and the lack of consistency in effect-per-point, is part of RuneQuest's charm. I am aware that it is one of the reasons that RuneQuest, and also Glorantha, is not everyone's cup of tea.

Hell you just admitted that the rules were inconsistent.

2 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think the quirky variety of spells, and the lack of consistency in effect-per-point, is part of RuneQuest's charm. I am aware that it is one of the reasons that RuneQuest, and also Glorantha, is not everyone's cup of tea.

Not really, that is a design flaw, and something it has in common with Exalted, in that charms are not consistant.

Same should be true here.

32 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I like having loads of spells doing different things.

 

It is just bloat.

You can just bespoke as needed.

Dark Wall, Light Wall. 

Light Blade, Dark Blade, Daemon Blade, Eldritch Blade. all do the more-or-less the same thing, just with minor variations. absolutely no point to be honest.

Leap, Jump. 

Lightning Strike, Sun Spear, Sky Bolt

Each of these instances can be one spell, that could easily be bespoked. Damage could easily be a function of shaping, so anything of Intensity 1 could be 1d6 damage, and touch range. Intensity 2 could be 2d6 and twenty metres or so.

Split them into Bolt (lightning or fire etc), Blast (Multiple strikes), and Burst area of effect. Then all you need is a guide to creating bespoke spells from the generic ones - easy peasy.

Just now, soltakss said:

Nope, we need  more spells, not less.

Why? Half the spells are just copies of others with a different effect.

On 2/18/2021 at 12:40 PM, Jason D said:

Moorcock's works were just re-released less than a decade ago by Gollancz, and are still in print. 

The BBC Hawkmoon series will likely spike readers to that novel series and associated Moorcock books. 

I have very little doubt that a new edition of Stormbringer would find an audience among longtime fans as well as newcomers to the character and his amazing universe. 

Anything that involves the multiverse would likely capture the attention of a wider audience, now that we have Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness looming (WandaVision is going to lead into it I believe), the second season of His Dark Materials has finished. Then strike with individual setting books, like Young Kingdoms etc.

Mysticism like I said last time in Runequest.

Advanced Sorcery. Only with Deep magic I changed the rules slightly. You can cast through meditation as peer normal ruling - but you can also draw the rune, kind of like in Dragon Prince. This also applies to normal rune magic.

As per the title, as there too many spells in Runequest?

In some cases, certainly in earlier editions, the same spells were in spirit, rune, and sorcery, just written slightly differently. Is this really required?

I am musing this, as thinking of going Savage Worlds approach, and having a core set of spells that can do most of what the players want, with a bit of bespoke wording. Is anyone doing anything similar?

16 hours ago, MoonRightRomantic said:

At this point, you're making an entirely new game.

I have been entertaining the idea of devising an urban fantasy game myself. I'm not married to any particular system, so I suppose I'd be okay with doing a systemless setting or compatible with multiple types of OGC systems like d20, GORE, or Action!.

There are just so many different subgenres. Gothic horror soap opera, paranormal political thriller, splatterpunk, mystery investigations, monster hunters, occult revelation...

Speaking of The Everlasting, I thought their Osirian character option was an interesting riff on Mage: The Ascension and Nephilim. In The Everlasting, anyone can potentially learn the rules' freeform magic system with the limitation that a single character is only able to ever learn a single magical tradition such as wicca, druidism, Taoism, or less conventional traditions like "techgnosticism." The Osirians are reincarnating magicians who can learn the precepts of all other traditions because they understand the meta-magic underlying all the different traditions.

If I was designing an urban fantasy setting and wanted to give my wizard characters special treatment, then that's probably the same direction I'd go in.

As per the title, revising the setting ever so slightly.

Sun and Moon energies could be polar opposites, and Dark Moon even more so. In fact there was a story on ff.net about Connor fighting Dracula, who when empowered by a quickening came alive, literally, and was no longer undead.

In fact some of the later French systems I believe had characteristics such as Strong, Very strong to describe characters - something that has been imported into Pulp Cthulhu so it is arguable that this is nothing new to the game. Merely adding bringing in elements from the original source material. Plus we know that the Kaim were the gods of the past, and did not need to use an anchor to enable them to possess a human. They were physical beings, so a faction keeping that aspect - i.e. physical gods a la Everlasting Daeva / Supernatural Pagan gods is not really changing the game either. Just altering some events of the the past.

In fact something present in Legacy: War of the Ages, which is Highlander in the modern day, with a few slight changes to canon. What is missing from the English version, and present in the original Portugese Imortal, is that they originated in Atlantis. Plus there are Dwimmeralik, lesser old ones really - and quite horrific, which could easily be older kaim. There are all kinds of options to revise aspects of the setting and still keep the game the same.

17 hours ago, MoonRightRomantic said:

You mean the immortals that battle to the death with katanas in order to consume each others' souls until the last survivor becomes a god?

If so, then I don't think that's a good fit at all.

Nephilim isn't about narcissistic demigods violently duking it out for control of the world like in World of Darkness. It's about revelation and transcendence. The characters are reincarnating immortals. They've lived many human lives. They've been monarchs, peasants, prophets and more. They know humanity more intimately than it knows itself. Eventually, all immortals decide to pursue the Golden Path to Agartha, to become bodhisattvas. Even the Emperor Arcanum, which is focused entirely on accumulating temporal power, believes that temporal power is merely a means to that end rather than the end itself. 

Or, to put it less pretentiously, BECMI with Indiana Jones instead of Aragorn.

What you have described there is Highlander, so some will want to accumulate power via head hunting, others by being monks etc.

In Highlander there were only immortals, but in a combined universe, there would be a lot of very compelling reasons not to kill one another. Heck you could even import some ideas from Witchcraft / Armageddon (Classic Unisystem) such that there is a sect of Undying that want peace. Another that Dream of Atlantis (hinted at in the series) and seek to create wonders of an age past. 

All of a sudden there is a reason they do not want to kill one another.

Easy peasy

Magic and corruption are largely dependent upon the setting. So in any world similar to Conan it would be, but somewhere more heroic like Savage Worlds Shaintar, not so much.

On 2/9/2021 at 11:19 PM, Nick J. said:

. . . said no combatant ever.

Yeah they did.

At no point in 30 years of budo, and numerous real fights have I ever aimed at someone's head and hit their knee, nor their stomach.

So yeah, hit locations are garbage.

It is absolutely possible for someone to mis-read a strike and then move into the strike instead of away from. Hit locations are only okay to use with say weapons if it bounces off it slides along it into another body part.

For instance I blocked a mid level bokken strike poorly such that it rebounded off it hitting me in the eyebrow. But for fist fights, hit locations are plainly false.

8 hours ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

Seen the new one?

Love the new logo

52 minutes ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

I meant to ask, what does this mean? Heroic abilities? Tell me more if you would be so kind sir  

"These are fuelled by the same reserves that power magic, and using them involves delving into one’s own character, channelling the intangible forces that fire deeds of heroism. For instance, a Player Character wishing to learn Slaying Touch must fi nd a master of the martial arts and persuade them that he is worthy to learn this deep secret."

These are geared for non-powered templates to enhance them to be far above normal.

In essence these are powered by innate magic, such as Slaying Touch, Wall Running, Tireless that kind of thing. Each one had a point cost (hero points), and a pre-requisite in stats or skill percentages. in essence they were a way to make your character really shine, to make them heroic, and a definitive cut above the rest. Trouble is a character might only have one or two, while a mage might have dozen or more spells. My solution was to create a lot more of them, and allow players to have more, which was easily done by drawing on Pathfinder, and DnD class abilities.

Those class abilities that drew upon another another power like a Paladin's, or Holy Warrior or Cleric, were still Gifts, as opposed to Heroic abilities.

So if I wanted someone with mysticism to essentially be a jedi-like character, that was fine. But if someone wanted to be a Barbarian beserker with uncanny stamina, strength boosts, able to dodge blows like they were made by addled children, then that was good too. But mages also had access to their own magic-based heroic abilities, such as having magic saturated blood, and thus have extra MP that was okay too.

It allows a fully balanced party that way, such that the warriors in the group could chop down dozens, and players could have a bloody (pun intended) good time, while the wizard fire balled the crap out of any artillery. Doing it this way players could literally be Aragorn, or Gandalf, or someone from Crouching Tiger, or Into the Badlands, or Kill Bill. Sure power levels go up, but it does not need to remove the gritty nature.

In fact, limbs of the bad guys could go every which way.

43 minutes ago, Chaot said:

I'm allergic to hit locations and while combat styles are a step in the right direction I'm not a huge fan of their implementation.

Ignore hit locations which make no sense in real combat anyway.

35 minutes ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

I think you are going to a more powerful level than I want to in this world. Ultimately one of the reasons I am moving from D&D to BRP is that I prefer a grittier less over-the-top thing. Which is why limited magic as well. Still all interesting things to look at and mine for inspirations  

In my dark fantasy magic too limited, along the lines of B&B, but it is not that gritty and essentially geared towards the players being heroes.

If it helps I sort of have a world template-

Ages: Which is it now, how long were others before it

Kingdoms: 

Metaphysics

Objects

Species

Flora & Fuana

Locations

Organisations

2 hours ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

I have this, there is a lot of good, and not so good, in it. It definitely shows it's Italian origins in some of the ideas, which reminds me of the old 80's sword & sorcery films from that country.

There is some stuff that I flat do not like. So in my Conan-esque B&B type setting I have the stuff I like, and discarded the rest, and brought in some stuff from elsewher that i do like. 

2 hours ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

Well that takes me back to the 90's

Babylon 5 has essentially the kind of lore, and monsters for a perfect Conan type setting; aliens from space, the most powerful are incorporeal, others are corporeal. A few (Thirdspace) could be from different dimensions. At least it works for me, may not be others.

2 hours ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

Isn't that just his update to the old Bard Press stuff from the late 70's? Anyways I have all versions, Bard Press, Omni Press, and his 2e version.

Not sure about that to be honest. But there is also Godsend Agenda, with a bunch of shape changing aliens posing as gods which could also easily fit into a Conan type setting too. I know it is in Mythic D6, normal D6 Powers, D20, and Mutants and Masterminds. i love both of the settings to be honest, but also looking forward to Orun if it comes out this year...

2 hours ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

Glorantha is the antithesis of what I am going for, so can you describe Mysticism for me a bit please?

Here is an excerpt:

"Mystic magic draws power into the world by establishing a connection of inexpressible awareness between individual and cosmos. Although it can wreathe a martial artist’s fist in devouring fi re or guide an arrow to an impossible target, true masters of mysticism claim that these worldly effects are a by-product, or stepping stone, to the true goal of personal transformation. Worse, they may be a trap, a test to see who is truly capable of separating himself from material distractions. That said, many mystics are perfectly content to stop at the fi ery fi sts and inerrant arrows. Mystic techniques have been established by great yogis or seers of the past but they are cryptic and puzzling. The practitioner must use them as tools in an individualised inner quest, to fi nd the truth hidden between the lines."

So divorce this from the setting and you have a great type of power, especially if you were to include some of the Spirit powers from the recent Runequest stuff (I am not keen on RQ as a setting to be honest either), but you get some of the stuff and you're cooking on gas. One power leap lets you jump six metres - very jedi-like, if you want that kind of thing.

Or just re-write, and re-task some of the old Heroic abilities, and combine with various spells.

14 hours ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

2] The map is made in Photoshop (the topo world one) using real world map pieces that I then "hammered" together lol. The b&w Albana map was done in photoshop as well, using icons and paint brushes.

When you say hammered together, not fully following tbh. Can you explain?

If you are going for a Conan vibe, I thoroughly suggest you check out Beasts and Barbarians which is Savage Worlds - it is like the best one I have seen to date. As it has a lot of interesting lore which you may like. It also has mystics with Savage World powers, but it is truly excellent.

I mean things like the Vorlons, Shadows, and the Demons (Asmodeus whatever he was?) in Babylon 5 would all be perfectly at home in a Conan esque story.

There is also Atlantis the Second Age, another brilliant S&S with monsters in, done by the very talented Jerry Grayson (who is also currently working on the prequel Atlantis the First Age).

In both cases anyone using magic has to pay some kind of cost.

If you wanted other magic systems, there is Mysticism in Mythras, or Runequest 1 (Glorantha the Second Age - page 9) has a better version as it describes what it is far more eloquently.

3 hours ago, Andrew Collas Presents... said:

Thanks I'll check them out!

Cheers!

Lankhmar Unleashed.

It has Hedge, Faith; Black Magic, and using hatred and agony, and corruption mechanic.

This is just some good stuff, well thought out. Well laid out. Excellent ideas.

Where did you go to get that map? Internet, drawn using a program? If so, which?

If you wanted a mythology angle for neanderthal types, you could use Vanara which is from Hindu mythology, as were intelligent monkeys.  They are in a couple of fantasy worlds I am constructing atm.