RogerDee

Looks solid enough from the full preview on Drivethru - may well put this on my list.

Top banana that is what #i was after 😀

I want, and have just put this puppy in my basket. Mmmm...i suspect I will be running a CoC campaign fairly shortly and I know exactly what to do with it. Are there any Rome CoC guides?

What is Aquelarra? Never heard of this of product.

This is such a good book, and briefly mentioned it on RPG.net. I love how the gods did not really have stats, and those stat blocks that do appear are more geared towards it being an avatar, and not the actual being. I would really love to get the hardbacks, but just lack the space nowadays. As an aside, i really do prefer the brown paper background instead of plain white. Good job Chaosuim.

You are quite right, my mistake.

Where does it say in the Chaosium version that they are humans with past lives? i thought it stated that the Kaim were incorporeal beings forced to possess humans, and have an anchor in order to prevent discorporation or something?

1. I called you stupid because you totally ignored evidence from a feat thread full of Lovecraft quotes calling it fan fiction. 2. There is no canon policy for Doctor Who I'm afraid. Literally none, of any kind. Now if you have your own 'head' canon like I do, that being Tv and EU as being totally different. 3. Lots of things in Trek are things man was not meant to know, and seem blatantly supernatural - we have Organians, various weird energy beings or sentient parts of space, Douwd - all of which accomplish various actions without technology. Plus we have psychic powers too add on into the mix. 4. False - humanity is able to grasp the Mythos, Through the Gates is a prime example of that. Having his self and humanity stripped away as a result. 5. It says quite clearly in Quote 1. "galaxies and cosmic continua." meaning more than one cosmos, so this shows your statement to be wrong. 6. Again it clearly shows multiple universes, Quote 2 "Spores of eternal life drifting from world to world, universe to universe, " So again your statement is proven wrong, and there is in fact a multiverse, and that it is a Type I multiverse. 7. Again false, it clearly says there are multiple selves. Yet again ignoring of evidence. 8. Begging the question. Just because t does not mention multiverse, it does not mean it is not there. It has to show the principles, which indeed it does. In plain English no less. In point of fact Moorcock is the first person to use the terminology in his fiction in 1963, way after HPL time, so using this as measuring stick is dishonest. As Quote 7 very clearly says "not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum." so again this proves you are wrong. 9. In regards to quote 5, it means that there are secrets left for Carter to know, and to uncover of the supposed unknowable Cthulhu Mythos. 10. It seems you are reading these quotes in isolation, try reading in context of the whole story. The whole story is essentially a lift from Hindu mythology, with regards to Atman, and Narayana. The multiple selves being individual beings with consciousness, and the Supreme Self, the true ultimate Carter, made up of infinite versions of himself, something which is backup with the aforementioned quotes. 11. Re quote 7. Appeal to ridicule, coupled with an Appeal to ignorance. Wow, I mean, just wow - it's a twofer. Again your statement is utter rubbish. 11 dimensions refer to the universe having 3, and the others are curled up and microscopic. In fact the Yoggy quotes, specifically refer to time as being in the fourth dimension, in the same way we are in the third dimension. At the time, it was a novelty, nowadays this thinking is a bit of a trope. But in the terms on HPL fiction - if that is how is designed his multiverse, that is how it rolls. In many ways, this set up is very similar to Doctor Who. 12. Regarding quote 8. ignoring of evidence yet again. How disingenuous of you. In fact it clearly says "All that was, and is, and is to be, exists simultaneously." so you are again wrong. 13. Re quote 9 & 10. As the quote is regarding Carter, and nothing to do with Yoggy, and it says quote clearly says are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions" again proving your statement false. Seriously, is English your second language by any chance? as that would certainly explain a few things. if not, then try reading them again, in context of the whole and not taken separately. 14. Re Kyll and Rhynn. Firstly that is another list of dumbest things said on this forum - most are by you by the way. Secondly. Yoggy is tied to the multiverse itself, so no. Also, if they were that powerful did they kill the Original Insect? Or did they kill God? I think on both counts that is a nope. So if they failed to kill powerful beings, instead of just angels (Lords of Chaos and Order respectively), they have no chance of killing Yoggy. So false yet again. As far as I can see, you are actively Ignoring Evidence, using Appeal of Ignorance, and others, such that the list of fallacies you are hiding behind is actively showing your true traits. So at this point I am fairly sure you are actively trolling!

Rubbish. I have very patiently tried to explain my point of view, and no I do not need 'get a clue.' You finally have it, hooray! You can call them Old Ones, Lords of chaos or order -you just don't need to use the same names. In some cases you can get away with an expy. This particular story had nothing to do with Elric - it just so happened a Lord of Chaos, and servant of Shuma Gorath was called Arioch. They didn't it is part of EU Lore. Star Trek universe may be rational, and in many ways is the same, in principle to Call of Cthulhu. It has things that man was never meant to know. "It has wonders both subtle and gross, and terrors to freeze your soul. But it is not for the timid." Absolutely and totally false. Story: https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/tgsk.aspx Quote 1: There were “Carters” in settings belonging to every known and suspected age of earth’s history, and to remoter ages of earthly entity transcending knowledge, suspicion, and credibility. “Carters” of forms both human and non-human, vertebrate and invertebrate, conscious and mindless, animal and vegetable. And more, there were “Carters” having nothing in common with earthly life, but moving outrageously amidst backgrounds of other planets and systems and galaxies and cosmic continua. This shows us that reincarnation likely exists, that there is some kind of soul, and the Atman are separate - and that that they exist in a Type I multiverse. Quote 2: Spores of eternal life drifting from world to world, universe to universe, yet all equally himself. Some of the glimpses recalled dreams—both faint and vivid, single and persistent—which he had had through the long years since he first began to dream, and a few possessed a haunting, fascinating, and almost horrible familiarity which no earthly logic could explain. Further hinted below. Quote 3: His self had been annihilated; and yet he—if indeed there could, in view of that utter nullity of individual existence, be such a thing as he—was equally aware of being in some inconceivable way a legion of selves. Quote 4: In the face of that awful wonder, the quasi-Carter forgot the horror of destroyed individuality. It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. This hints that the being is tied to the very multiverse itself, and in all likelihood is HPL's version of Narayana, tied not to one one universe, but every single one of them. Quote 5: “What you wish, I have found good; and I am ready to grant that which I have granted eleven times only to beings of your planet—five times only to those you call men, or those resembling them. I am ready to shew you the Ultimate Mystery, to look on which is to blast a feeble spirit. Yet before you gaze full at that last and first of secrets you may still wield a free choice, and return if you will through the two Gates with the Veil still unrent before your eyes.” Five humans have reached this stage, and six other nonhumans on Earth. Quote 6:: Then the waves increased in strength, and sought to improve his understanding, reconciling him to the multiform entity of which his present fragment was an infinitesimal part. Hints that there is a Supreme Self, a Supreme Carter - and to use a term from Hinduism - it is his Atman. Quote 7: They told him that every figure of space is but the result of the intersection by a plane of some corresponding figure of one more dimension—as a square is cut from a cube or a circle from a sphere. The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity. It hints that there are infinite dimensions, and hints that even time (4th dimension) is small to such a being. Quote 8: Time, the waves went on, is motionless, and without beginning or end. That it has motion, and is the cause of change, is an illusion. Indeed, it is itself really an illusion, for except to the narrow sight of beings in limited dimensions there are no such things as past, present, and future. Men think of time only because of what they call change, yet that too is illusion. All that was, and is, and is to be, exists simultaneously. All time happens simultaneously, such that Yoggy is nonlinear in nature, and confirms time is meaningless to it. Quote 9: All descended lines of beings of the finite dimensions, continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions Quote 10: Randolph Carter and all his ancestors both human and pre-human, terrestrial and pre-terrestrial; all these were only phases of one ultimate, eternal “Carter” outside space and time—phantom projections differentiated only by the angle at which the plane of consciousness happened to cut the eternal archetype in each case Confirmation that the Atman exists, of some kind of Ultimate Self.

Rubbish - you are confusing game system with feel of the game. They are not the same thing, stop doing this! Unless you are going to be able to bench press 800 pounds, and be 6'8" then this is just dumb. Make it a trait modifier to whatever stat you want. You don't need a stat for it. If you are doing a multiverse game, unless it takes in account different types of settings it is worthless garbage! DC has done it. The fictional book Transmigration of Souls did it. Doctor Who has done it. On the grounds my previous post said Legend - Glorantha is not relevant. Champions did it with Mystic World using the same system that Ken Hite used in Gurps Cabal - they just went into more detail. So yeah, you can totally do it. It was in reference to the Terraphiles FFS. Quote 1: It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. Quote 2: "The waves surged forth again, and Carter knew that the BEING had heard. And now there poured from that limitless MIND a flood of knowledge and explanation which opened new vistas to the seeker, and prepared him for such a grasp of the cosmos as he had never hoped to possess. He was told how childish and limited is the notion of a tri-dimensional world, and what an infinity of directions there are besides the known directions of up-down, forward-backward, right-left. He was shewn the smallness and tinsel emptiness of the little gods of earth, with their petty, human interests and connexions—their hatreds, rages, loves, and vanities; their craving for praise and sacrifice, and their demands for faith contrary to reason and Nature. Quote 3: Then the waves increased in strength, and sought to improve his understanding, reconciling him to the multiform entity of which his present fragment was an infinitesimal part. They told him that every figure of space is but the result of the intersection by a plane of some corresponding figure of one more dimension—as a square is cut from a cube or a circle from a sphere. The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity. The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing—the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate, where ’Umr at-Tawil dictates dreams to the Ancient Ones. Though men hail it as reality and brand thoughts of its many-dimensioned original as unreality, it is in truth the very opposite. That which we call substance and reality is shadow and illusion, and that which we call shadow and illusion is substance and reality. https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/cthulhu-mythos-respect-thread.680410/ https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/cthulhu-mythos-respect.335992/ This is pretty much fact by anyone with a brain. So yeah, pretty much one of the most powerful beings in all of fiction. Unless the game evolves it dies, kind of like Palladium is. Find good things from other rpg's that can be assimilated, then do so.

Well not really, it uses D100 BRP system AFAIK. Not sure if you being genuine here or not? Stats are direct measures of things, strength, dexterity, endurance, things that cannot be role played. Charisma can be. Not technically before you jump in here and go well appearance cannot be role played either. Who actually really cares about it? Sorcerers tend to use two stats though don't they? WP and Int. Sweet Jesus! It is called role playing for a reason! If you want to practice sword fighting or boxing go down your local gym or dojo. It absolutely can. But as a whole I tend to dislike the needless complexity of WoD. It is still D100 based, just bereft of superfluous stuff. Stop being so closed minded! OMG man, it is a multiverse setting it can be anything and everything. You do realise this is already in the published rpg's right? And again, it is a multiverse setting where magic can interact with each universe in different ways etc. Where do you think Lords of Gossamer ideas came from man? It is clearly a combination of Elric and the Dark Tower, and DnD. And the scaling engineers travel them as they want. It seems you are just being antagonistic here for the sake of it. On the grounds that the Lords of Order and Chaos, were essentially similar to DC cosmology - angels or demons from God. Of which there were also powers out there beyond them, it absolutely could easily be published. So easy. Let me be crystal here then - Legend then, not all the magic is theistic based. Stop being so goddamn pedantic! Firstly, and I am going be outspoken here - the book was shite! Secondly, Doctor Who EU is so open that it really doesn't matter a damn. The Cthulhu setting is absolutely multiversal and likely takes place in a Type IV multiverse. Yoggy is actually one of the most powerful beings in ALL of fiction.. I am being completely open to any and all changes and you're the one saying '"no!" You really should try looking in the mirror here, sweet Jesus! Strawman OMG where do you think Pyrary came from? Damn Cthulhu expy! And again mate - multiverse. It is all about exploring how the actions you take can thoroughly change, for good or ill, where you are. Go Big or go home! EDIT: Or could you actually be having issues with getting to grips with a multiverse type setting? And understanding the implications of it? now if it is, please say so, and we can talk about it.

How crunchy or simple will this be?

Not sure if this is something you need to address, but it does state about using part of Mythras engine in the blurb still. But yeah can post thus elsewhere on this site if need be.

Just because another engine runs it, it does not cease to be Stormbringer. I can put a VW engine in a Porsche. It still has the chassis, tyres, windows, engine making it a Porsche! Again, it does not need to be a stat, it can be a trait - nothing more than that. As to using this it affected category modifiers - you can easily add that if need be. Doesn't matter, use WP instead. Easy peasy. Using the analogy of role playing sword fights is a little silly mate. Charisma can just be a trait again, and use WP. to create a modifier. That is exactly what I would do. I would use just them as a grading tool and as a percentage to roll against. No, magic as a whole has not changed, and needs to fast. It is as old and rickety and my ankles first thing in the morning. Minor tweaks to Animism / Spirit Magic, and Mysticism had a few in Mythras. They have even reprinted the Glyph magic from SB East book into the Advanced Sorcery book, calling it Deep Magic instead. No, it needs a major overhaul like i said. You just need Cantrip, Spells, Arcana, hell you could even add Spheres - although this Scientific Magic Actual Magic Sorcery Just like it was written in the RPG's. Keep magic advancing and moving. Look at some of the Pathfinder magic of late - there has been some utterly fantastic additions to it. Travelling the multiverse is supposed to be fantastic, not mundane! Whether you are an Eternal Champion, or a humble traveller. You seek out the fantastic, the strange, wacky and bizarre and adventure with them. Cannot get anymore cinematic than that. At this stage you want your characters to be blocking bullets, or even lasers with their, able to take down a small group but still have to careful. Of course it can. Moorcock even called the Lords of Chaos and Order....Old Ones. It is on his miscellany website. So it could totally be done, and very easily too. According to the Hawkmoon rpg, it states that it was scientific. Lovecraft magic seems to be about alien science. Sorcery and Runes, from some descriptions I have read certainly seem very scientific in nature, reaching into other dimensions etc. Massively missing the point. RQ magic (not all was Theism) basically told physics to go do one, and stop moaning about conservation of energy and it could damn create ex nihilio if it felt it! They are the same thing mate https://wiki.multiverse.org/index.php?title=Great_Old_Ones So yeah you can easily. As to killing Cthulhu with Strombringer - it is a multiverse setting, who is to say all versions of Cthulhu are the same. Some could be aliens, others could from another dimension while one could from a higher dimension and utterly untouchable by Stormbringer. Stop being so rigid thinking man. Hell in my combined CoC / Stormbringer setting I essentially had the Q-like beings as Lords of Order and Chaos; Outer Gods lived in the void between universe, utterly huge beings that dwarfed universes. A bit of imagination can go a long way.

Sorcery all the way, Elric style.

This is a great new rpg based upon Mythras. It has some wonderful art, and special talents which are clearly influenced by Savage Worlds Edges. I consider it a great addition to the family. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/305892/Sabre-RPG-2e-Fantasy-Basic The basic fantasy version is completely free, although the full versions are not all that expensive, so if you wanted to expand your Mythras game, this could be the extras you want. Thoroughly recommend this.

Didn't Runequest or one of the D100 engines also have point buy, fairly sure they did.... Anyhow, look at Revolution dropping Siz, pointless attribute and not relevant and replaced with Build now. App is a nothing attribute either really, and can be covered in traits. Cha - well this is irrelevant too, as how well you come across is symptomatic of how you role play. And should it come to contest, a simple WP would cover that, or skill in oratory. The skills levels are as you mentioned, to demonstrate % levels in skills, just removes the in between values, and yes to streamline chargen. So a professional would have 75% in a particular skill. AT that point they deserve the 'professional' status at this point having taken considerable time to achieve. This also allows for those that want to go beyond 100% (I mean who doesn't want that lol). Something I do like about Age system is when you pick a specialisation / profession - again something also done in BRP to some extent, and certainly in old RQ. So if someone were to pick a level in their profession, their skills would match. This does not account for those instances where say someone wants to play a fighter (pick an occupation really) that may be a bit rubbish at one of the skills. A good example of simplified chargen is Pulp Cthulhu - in fact this demonstrates it rather well. Pick Archetype, Occupation, and Talents. Extremely simplified. Basic and quick, how all chargen should be. And this might be 7e Cthulhu, but it is still BRP at its core. Personally, I see no reason not to give both options, small tweaks or major overhauls. Give players the choice to decide how to run their own game. Lets' look at magic - it is has not changed really in years and was never great to begin with. This is why I have Cantrips (similar to Mythras / BRP Classic fantasy), then there are spells. My addition is to stick on Arcana (again stealing from Age here), which are areas of magic - whether fire, water, digital, etc. And what a player can do should be purely limited by their ability to shape that energy. Wanna throw a fireball, great, create a wall of fire, go for it. Please bear in mind, these tweaks are more geared towards creating a more cinematic game, which is something Stormbringer should be. An Eternal Champion reminds me of Lords of Gossamer in some ways. They are travelling the multiverse to explore and sample its riches, and set things back on track. their journeys may take them to a Sword and Sorcery world, or to Star Trek, or Star Wars. And it needs to cope with the transition. On a side note I read few RQ, Cthulhu rpgs, and a few other things and actually went and created my own combined multiverse with both in it. I enjoyed this exercise as it was great fun! Not only that I feel the rules need to take into account different metaphysics too. Hawkmoon has scientific magic in the rpg Call of Cthulhu is very much the same. Runequest is just straight up Harry Potter magic, and slaps physics in the face. And then we also have Runes. So i got to thinking, what if there are these different sources for using And then there is Sorcery, where you can use and abuse all of the above. In essence this is where you are getting to being Doctor Strange. Now this is the kind of game I want!

What is not BRP for you anymore in this?

Honestly, why make it all super difficult with tons of skills etc? It just needs to be points build, all the way. Stats, trim them down you only need: Str, End, Dex / Reflexes, Willpower Then have players pick certain traits, positive and negative which add or subtract from certain things. Skills, well this is easy, players can pick them via professions, depending upon the setting; e.g space opera, fantasy etc. So for fantasy you can have Monk, Assassin etc, make it easy and fast. Anything extra can picked up and call it Knowledge , e.g. Physics, Chemistry etc. Both of these are picked up in levels: Novice, Journeyman, Professional, Expert, Master. Allow for ratings about this if need be. Magic is split into: Cantrips, Spells, Arcana (areas of knowledge). Again split into the levels above. Just assign a relevant points score. This last bit would need thoroughly to ensure it cannot be broken too easily. And also details on how to set the campaign to various levels: Gritty, Pulpy, Cinematic, etc, and how to assign points etc.

Always want more Pulpy Cthulhu action

1. Yeah, it is a good book, but unfortunately it is a mish-mash of stuff and needs to be brought under one umbrella / centralised theme. What I mean is this - we have the Black Oil from X-Files, the Engineers (and their black oil stuff), and Shoggoths. It would have made internal sense to tie them together in some way. 2. Say the Elder Things found a pool of black goo containing complex DNA & RNA strands that would be easy to modify. Say one hundred million years later the Engineers found it too,and experimented upon it. First thing they did was create weaponised servants (black oil X-Files aliens), and then found bespoke uses, and a way to seed planets with life. 3. What the Engineers, and let's use mythology here and call them the Nephilim, are the creation of an incorporeal species that suffered internal conflict creating angels and demons. 4. Perhaps the Old Ones are certain species that became bloated with magic (think Akira) that they gained massive powers. 5. One of Chaosium's major flaws, which Ken Hite gets, is statting everything, remove stats for the Other gods, they are pointless. Even if they send an avatar it requires a deus ex machina to beat, or a specific condition allowing PC victory. 6. Tachyon / Hyperspace universe refers to an FTL realm. For this you need to use brane cosmology to make it work. 7. Any references to between universes is either the Void, or call it the Bulk. 8. Allow ancients (likely 8 billions years old plus) to have various methods of immortality, such as cycling their death outside space/time, resulting in nigh unkillable, or quantum immortality.

As a stand in you could always use some of the stuff from Elric with the varying levels of dream.

@Mike M and I have a few good ideas how a Lovecraft multiverse could work too.

I think because rpg.net would get more responses, allowing it to be posted here. A Cthulhu multiverse setting book would be great 😀

@Mike M Not sure if anyone at Chaosium saw this in rpg.net. https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/call-of-cthulhu-wishlist.865608/ But yeah, more Pulp for 7e please.