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About Tcneseleis

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  • RPG Biography
    Runequest, Middle Earth, and others.
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    Sometimes back to Glorantha.

  1. The Horse nomads' ancestors originated in the plains to the north of the Elder Wilds according to the map in FS p. 4. There were a lot of trolls there in the First Age, so I guess that the World Council of Friends was really far-reaching.
  2. To learn about Greenwood, Greatwood or the Elder Wilds reminded me how primeval First Age Glorantha is. It was mostly wild lands until humans started settling it. Certainly there were lots of animals, birds, etc. which means most human clans could live by hunting. However, it could not be possible until the world recovered well enough from the Great Darkness. The start of the first wars between elves and humans seems to be during the Gbaji Wars in Ralios.
  3. The volcanoes are not far, so it's very suitable for Lodrilli.
  4. Redalda (or Gamara) and Avarnia were, respectively, the nurturers of Nivorah and Verapur, and are not grain or plant goddesses either. Others might be, for instance Biselenslib of Alkoth is connected with weeds, and perhaps frogs and worms and the river banks, but I think people there prefer Everina the goddess of rice. The word "thil" may mean something like pasture indeed, although another goddess such as Pela may prevail among peasants. The highest virtue prevails. Her role seems to merge with that of Antirius as protector and possibly the epitome of male virtues, which makes the nurturer/protector duality merely a male/female division of the city cult.
  5. Thilla is probably based on the same root as Esvuthil, Velthil and Althil, the northeastern lands of Dara Happa and Rinliddi, mentioned in FS mostly on the maps. Animals may graze here and Thilla might be an animal mother like Redalda and Avarnia (the Gods Wall suggestion would be misleading). Rye grows in cold regions. But Lesilla is another possible candidate as goddess of rye, with her city of Mernita being the furthest north in the empire in the Dominion of Antirius.
  6. It seems flat-roofed houses do not fit very well with the climate of Peloria. Where on Earth are they found where it's rainy?
  7. It was after the Closing, so the presence of an ancient base here is speculative. Not until they were able to recover from their destruction at the hands of Sshorg's children, after which they were likely under firm Ludoch supervision in the Maslo and Marthino Seas. The question is did they fight against the Ludoch and win? There are chances that the Maslo, using their famous outriggers, could soon enough come and go between their ports and Teleos and perhaps the East Isles with little Waertagi interference. IMO, when they were able to sail out of the Maslo Sea, they looked around for Sharzu as the Waertagi are doing for Brithos. The Waertagi perhaps had serious engagements for control of this area, on a par with their great war against Mokato.
  8. Aftal's city was quite degenerate after having been beached and anchored for most of the Closing. The Waertagi used ot have a great variety of support craft that didn't work well around the beached city ships, and either were lost to the Closing or cannibalized for repairs of their city ships. Waertagi in canoes is about as sophisticated as Praxian beast riders on foot. They could last for quite a long time. The city ships might work as small islands. They probably had tanks for rainwater, or used magic to produce it, and might grow some vegetables and raise fowl or other small animals on their giant ships. But considering their anatomy and usual environment, they may have a diet of fish, seagull eggs, algae, etc. I think it's stated in the Guide that they used other types of ships too. But canoes are not so bad if only short distances have to be covered. I think about islanders who live in archipelagoes, or just rowboats used for beach landing. Those mercenaries would have to be ferried in, and they'd be corrupted by interaction with the enemies of the Waertagi, acquiring knowledge of overseas cultures. Unless the Waertagi brought them along with their families as settlers in the new lands, they would have to strand these mercenaries away from their homes. There are known cases where the Waertagi aided emigrants e.g. from Slontos or Jrustela to establish new colonies, in exchange for service as mercenaries. I cannot think of any cases where they brought mercenaries that expected to go home after the campaign, though. Ok. It's impossible to bring mercenaries anywhere for fear of revealing who lives there, if it's far enough from the battleground, but anyway I suppose all Waertagi wars were naval wars against competitors. Counting on the Ludoch can be a fatal error - even if the coastal folk have long standing cooperation by submitting to the Ludoch, the Waertagi have ancestral ties with the Ludoch, and they bring their sea sorcery as a help to neutralize any Ludoch interference - if only by threatening to use it. The Waertagi had a long tradition to interdict any overseas travel by anyone but themselves. In this, it is suspected that they were aided by the Triolini, regardless of their cooperation on a local level. Ok.
  9. They are able to live at sea for a very long time and almost do not need to land. When they come near inhabited lands, and usually their dragonships never enter ports, it's for trade or perhaps occasional raids, so I favour the beach landing theory, using large canoes, as in the Aftal story. The Waertagi are afraid of the land, and they don't go too far IMO. If they met any serious resistance, they wouldn't insist and risk dying to the last man. It is likely they'd seek mercenaries' help in such situations. Flooding enemy ports with tidal waves would be a tremendous attack. I remember reading somewhere that some Second Age Jrusteli port city was destroyed by the vengeful Waertagi. Some of the Waertagi are naturally amphibious so they must be very good with shallows, reefs, etc. but most coastal people can count on Ludoch help too.
  10. Every god in the sea pantheon is not an ancestor of the Waertagi race. Malkion, Waertag, and maybe some Triolini deities are. I would limit this ancestry to Waertag, but since Malkion is obviously an ancestor too, why not include the Triolini as well, as you pointed out earlier that Malkion was the son of a Triolini himself. Yes, I think it's interesting too. Both methods should be possible, but tidal waves are caused by a deity, from one of the Nine Undine Clans of the Neliomi Sea. Doesn't it mean it is not necessary to dedicate a specialized deity for this whereas there is plenty of other causes?
  11. They are acquainted with sea deities who are not their ancestors, for example the different places named Sog after the spirits which the Waertagi worship there. The source of my speculation is that Sog is a giant undine of the King Undine's family, whose children live in Neliom's Sea, the Waertagi's home base near Brithos and the original Sog, but it is suggested they also do it in other places around the oceans.
  12. Rebellion of the Gods is a Brithini term for the end of the Green Age. Not a big problem but I thought it started in the Third Action Era (early Golden Age) when the Burtae deities were created, and started to make trouble. Identification to the Runes is the reason given in RM. By Identification to the runes, the gods, the True Beings which resulted from the Third Action Era, actually turned against each other, or generally competed for spheres of power. A useful reminder. I think we must be careful with this notion because I do not think Sequence is wrong when it tends to follow a logical direction, although it may happen. Sequence involves Causality, a concept everyone in Glorantha probably understands and uses. Xentha was the darkness spirit who led the escape into Hurtplace. So usually, in most cases, I think it makes sense. Niiads don't require air to breathe, the Ludoch offspring of Diendimos do. Why should them mating with the offspring of air-breathing humans produce water-breathing offspring? Indeed, a very good point. There is one Malkion (at least) for each of the Actions, including the Creator, the Founder, the Sacrifice. They often have another name, too, like e.g. Kiona. I actually meant other known Malkion the Founder stories, but I suspect there are none. I thought it was impossible, actually, and mysticism would reject runic identities as illusions and traps on the way to enlightenment. Strangely, this definition of Monotheism developed only within History. If you look at the description of Ylream, Hrestol's snake-legged half brother and first of the serpent kings, you will find the Seshnegi happily combining theistic worship and Malkioni logic-based wizardry and philosophy. Plenty other places have similar combinations. Brithos itself has a land goddess, and the farmer caste as the offspring of Britha and Malkion Aerlitsson. The Waertagi aren't an exeption to the way Malkionism deals with deities, they are the norm. The more extreme forms of monotheism or atheism are the results of genocidal purges. Zzabur pruned the Brithini of any dissidents by sending them off to join the impure colonies on the Genertelan mainlands over and over again, retaining only a hard core of the most determined or the most pliable followers. The Silver Empire of Seshnela in the Dawn Age was the first attempt at monotheism rather than atheism, the previous praxis was a mixed philosophy that acknowledge theist forms of magic alongside the Malkioni atheist philosophy that acknowledged ancestral Malkion as an emanation of the Creator. I had forgotten all of this. The Waertagi sacrifice to the sea gods, indeed. They probably speak with Malkion too but he does not take sacrifices. The Sharp Abiding Book and maybe the School(s) of Mythical Synthesis. Who is Halwal? Are you referring to the numerous heresies born in the Second Age?
  13. Deleted post.
  14. I agree with all this and don't understand what you disagree with. It matters how differently theism and sorcery work. For instance, sorcerers don't have to dress in a sheep-skin (that is just an example) in order to perform rain (Heler's) magic. Perhaps in Ralios they use symbols that look like Heler's attributes, but that's probably not mandatory. They don't need to look at Orlanthi rituals in order to figure out the spells they need. Monotheism forbids the worship of other gods, and dismisses them as useless or even dangerous.