Richard S.

Hm. Alright. Forgive me if I'm missing something incredibly obvious, but how exactly is Seshnela an oppressive, evil, unplayable place comparable to the Galactic Empire? I haven't delved too much into it, to be fair, but from what I've read in the guide and heard on Malkioni society in general from Jeff (mostly from the latest impromptu con), it seems to me that it's no worse than, say, the Lunar Empire (and people are more than willing to adventure in and be involved with the politics of that empire's heartlands). I suppose you could read the castes themselves as a form of oppression, yet as I understand it the restrictions aren't really too enforced on the lower classes, especially the Dronars, who are mostly free to go about their business - both material and magical - as long as they give some worship to the Invisible God, supply power to their Zzaburi, and don't overtly do something like wear a lot of yellow around the wizards and nobles. And while Seshnela is looking to stamp out all other forms of Malkionism and conquer the west, I'm going to point again to the Lunar Empire for example of something very similar that everyone seems to be perfectly fine playing with/in. Certainly there's a lot wrong in Seshnela from our own perspective, but I don't see how it's "unplayable".

...I don't suppose anyone would mind doing a TLDR? I feel like I really like this thread, but I can't say for certain until my brain manages to decode the arcane script y'all are speaking.

Well it's good to see I already know all the dialogue I'll need for the Jonstown guards 😛 "My cousin's out fighting Lunars and what do I get? Guard duty."

If we want to get deeper into mountain = law territory, when True Dragons sleep mountains often form around/above them. Sleeping/dead dragons forming the basis of a lawful universe? Maybe dragons become singular laws which are runes as they sleep, explaining their elemental associations.

Even if they can't be a Rune priest they can at least be a God-Talker. Less cult support and no allied spirit (usually, maybe your player could be an exception), but they get the rest of the benefits of priesthood. Unfortunately there's not many male earth gods in general, and even less martial ones (it's likely most of them followed Genert to his death). I seem to remember something about one of them being rediscovered in Sartar quite recently, a minor earth god devoted to chaos fighting, but I don't recall his name. Currently, I think your only other option is actually Aldrya. It's a bit of an odd choice, but non-aldryami can technically join and advance as far as any elf could, and she does provide some nice martial magic.

Speaking as someone who's been obsessed with dragonewts since I first found Glorantha, Magisaurs don't really scratch the same "I wanna play a dragon man" itch. I get that dragonewts are difficult to use as anything but NPCs, but it would be nice if there were options for crested or beaked newts who had just lost the path and become mortal while still retaining their form, rather than just saying "play a dinosaur instead", or even some way to play orthodox dragonewts.

Yeah. Generally, Kabajor is seen as the "entropic" side of the Devil/Chaos while Wakboth is the "moral" side. Of course, these aren't hard lines, and honestly they're probably just different names/forms of the same thing, but it's a common way of looking at things.

I feel like I should probably expand on a few things in my original post. Starting with the "distance, time, target" stuff, all that's supposed to be is general guidelines for determining what's credible for a spell to do. It's just an in-world thing to consider for the credibility test, not a new mechanic. I'm not trying to add a whole new complex subsystem for spell parameters and magic power and stuff like that, just trying to put in some boundaries for effects for the sake of players who don't feel comfortable creating magical abilities with few to no guidelines or understanding of what they should be able to do. Old hands have been going at this for ages, and can easily adjudicate when or where something magical makes sense, but people jumping in from Runequest or just total new players are extremely out of their depth in Questworlds, in my experience. The stuff I said about fatigue is, similarly, just a credibility test thing. If your character has been using a lot of magic recently, or they're just exhausted, it's not credible for them to continue casting magic as easily as they have been. They'll take a penalty or, if the GM rules they're even worse off than that, be unable to use spells at all.

Here's some notes I made for how I'd probably handle Gloranthan magic in Questworlds, attempting to hybridize HQG's magic with how RQG treats it and some things Ian has mentioned. They're rather incomplete, and I get that several people prefer HQG's systems already, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out here and maybe start some discussion on how other people have/will be handling Gloranthan games under the new rules, if they're not just using HQG still. General Magic Adulthood initiation serves to awaken your dominant rune affinities. For most people this is only one, the elemental rune of their pantheon’s head deity, but a starting player character can have up to three rune affinities at the beginning of play. These can be used to augment other abilities, but cannot be used as direct magical abilities initially. Also act as personality abilities or flaws if they are acted against. More rune affinities can be gained in play, especially through heroquests. Continuing to act against a rune will lead to a crisis where you either lose the affinity entirely or it completely dominates your character, making it impossible to act against it for a long while. Magic is tiring. Excessive use of spells will start to inflict penalties, and eventually you may become entirely drained unless you can get a good long rest, preferably a night’s sleep. Purposefully using more energy than necessary can improve the effect of a spell, along with spending extra time or having help. Shamans and rune masters may lose some or all of their magical and temporal power if they fail to uphold their responsibilities. Sorcerers may lose temporal power if they don’t have their superior’s approval, but their personal magical power remains. Spirit Magic Spells are spirit abilities either stolen or given in return for power. Standalone unless you’re a shaman, who can hang them off the spirit rune as breakouts. Can be used directly if appropriate. Low power; average 50 meters, 2 minutes, single target. Limited flexibility, a single spell’s parameters can’t be changed that much, though the strength can be increased some. Multiple characters cannot combine effort for spirit magic, but spirits can help. Characters with the spirit rune qualify to become shamans. They can use their rune to view and communicate with spirits as if they were normal characters, and can take spirit magic spells as breakouts from the spirit rune. Bound spirits are treated as retainer relationships. Allied spirits and fetches are treated as sidekicks. Shamans can have contacts, allies, and even patrons among spirits. Rune Magic Spells are recreations of mythic deeds of the god backed by the god’s power in return for sacrifice. Breakouts from appropriate runes. Can always be used directly. Rune masters can use the runes they share with their god as direct abilities without relying on breakouts. Powerful; average 160 meters, 15 minutes, size of a small room. A little more flexibility than spirit magic, and multiple magicians can combine efforts to get off much more powerful effects. Very taxing to cast, only a little less so for rune masters. Rune affinity can serve as relationship ability with god. Relationship to cult is a separate ability. High ranking members of a cult are rune masters, who get more attention from their god. Can use runes directly, gain an allied spirit, and wield more power in cult affairs. Gods expect sacrifice in return for their power. Neglecting sacrifice can lead to them withdrawing favor. Excessive sacrifice can lead to great benefits. More important worshipers are expected to sacrifice more. Sorcery Spells are complex mental exercises that modify and exploit natural laws through force of will. Grouped into grimoires of related spells, which are treated as breakouts from the law rune. Spells can be used directly if appropriate. Only characters with the law rune can learn sorcery. A little weaker than spirit magic; average 10 meters, 5 minutes, single target. Incredibly flexible at the cost of being very slow and costly. Multiple sorcerers can easily combine effort. Characters with the law rune qualify to become sorcerers. The rune itself can’t be used for anything directly, but grimoires are learned as breakouts from it. Non-sorcerers can assist sorcerers through certain ritual procedures.

Oh sure a Yelmite could definitely be pulled in to the role of Yelm. Them trying to mess with what Orlanth tries to do though is such a horrifyingly chaotic thought I shudder at what the consequences would be. The point of the LBQ is that Orlanth and Yelm resolved their differences and allied to create a world where everyone could live. Either side disrupting that means a violation in the foundation of the Great Compromise, and nobody but the most insane, evil illuminates would want that.

Yelm is tied to illumination somewhat, both due to his authority over both life and death and because Nysalor is often seen as a piece of Yelm. Based on what Jeff's said elsewhere, it looks like it's intended that Illuminates are the only ones who can use Yelm's powers to their fullest. Mastery in RQG represents "heroism" more than "authority", which is why Orlanth has it while Yelm does not. They're both sovereigns, but that power is accessed through their other runes. The runes are far more than just fancy powers, they have a profound impact on a character's personality and outlook on life. In fact, I'd argue that their influence on character's mental states is more important to consider than what magic you can pull off with them. Even if there aren't flashy rune spells for stasis, if you want to play a solid, stubborn, steadfast character there's plenty of reason to invest in it, since you can use it for augments that are in line with those traits. Choosing which way to lean is a personality thing more than anything. Is your Yelmite life-loving and generous, grim and cold, or with no strong leanings either way? Edit: choosing life or death probably affects which associate spells you can use too. If you have 90% life, you're probably not gonna get to use whatever Shargash gives to Yelm.

Dara Happan Yelm in RQG won't have Stasis. If you have the cult compendium, it'll probably be closest to how he's presented in there. Basically it's the same general structure and magic as the Grazer cult, but without Golden Bow and adding the Imperator subcult, which gives access to certain important spells like Resurrection and Command Griffin, to name a few. He also gets far more associate cults in Dara Happa, which is to say basically the entire solar pantheon plus a good chunk of earth gods and maybe a water or two.

Part of the point that me and I believe kr0p0s are trying to make is that those Horali would not know Enhance STR, and even if they did they could not manipulate it. Learning sorcerous spells is the domain of sorcerers who have trained for years to master runes and techniques. There are limited exceptions in the form of cult secrets like Open Seas, but, because it can be cast without knowing runes and techniques, that can't even be manipulated unless the caster is a sorcerer. It's been established that non-Zzaburi use Rune and/or spirit magic, and any sorcery they need is cast by Zzaburi who have trained their whole lives to learn it. From the two hints at abilities we have combined with what we know of western magic already, it seems highly unlikely that they'll be % skills that have to be trained, like sorcery spells, and instead closer to cult gifts or shamanic gifts or rune magic in terms of mechanics. Even if the lore behind them is that they're derived, like sorcery, from universal laws, they most likely aren't sorcery themselves.

They're mostly Kethaelan/Kerofinelan I'd wager if we're talking the Praxian temple, since they came from the EWF (assuming I didn't fail my history check). Maybe a few Pelorians, but they're probably so mixed in it doesn't matter. Yelmalio and Ernalda seem to be their dominant gods, and the structure of Sun County society doesn't really lend itself to Lodrili villages anyways.

You said "in Runequest, all magic is of one of three types". I was responding to that part by stating things which don't fall into any of those three categories. I wasn't trying to say they were types of caste magic, just that they were neither sorcery, spirit, nor rune magic. That's not handwaving, that's how the designers have said it's being treated. Dormal's cult teaches Open Seas to all initiates, which is a sorcery spell but can be cast without knowledge of runes and techniques for 9mp, with no manipulation allowed unless the caster actually is a sorcerer who knows its runes and techniques. Zzaburi are famous for sorcery, yes, but non-Zzaburi are not sorcerers and do not use it, as Jeff revealed in the impromptu con. They worship their ancestors (some of whom are gods), initiate to cults, and use rune and spirit magic like most of the rest of Genertela. If you want to know my thoughts on whether the Talar ability will be closest to Command Worshippers or Dominate Humanoid I say Dominate Humanoid, though not because I think it's any sort of sorcery spell, but instead because I think the effect will be similar, if not as mind control-y and probably more limited in who it can affect. Command Worshippers isn't even that much about commanding, since it doesn't actually compel obedience from the summoned Orlanthi besides the compulsion to gather to the caster, after which they're free to do whatever.

Open seas is a cult secret of the Dormal cult, and the fact that non-sorcerers can even learn it has been said to be a unique accomplishment of his iirc. What is Dragon Magic? Illumination? The innate abilities of certain magical creatures? Are they sorcery, spirit, or rune? There is a ton of magic outside the sorcery/spirit/rune division. What reason do you have to believe that it's sorcery though? The other three castes already use rune and spirit magic, why can't it be based on those if it has to be based on one of the three? And why can't it be something entirely unique?

The current approach seems to be that sorcery is the domain of the Zzaburi alone, since with the exception of Dormal's Open Seas spell you need knowledge of runes and techniques to cast any, and those are only taught to wizards. From the two examples we've gotten hints towards (the Zzaburi and Talar), I think it's more likely they're just passive abilities whose power varies based on Rightness. The Zzaburi probably can store MP up to their Rightness, and I wouldn't be surprised if it increased their Free INT some as well (which I think would account for the abilities of an NPC sorcerer we've seen but I can't remember the name of). Talars probably can just force obedience in other Malkioni of lower Rightness, maybe with an opposed POW check or an expenditure of Rightness though.

How extensive will the rules booklet be? I'm assuming it'll at least be as extensive as the quickstart, but will it have anything on things like experience, or regaining Rune points?

You'll probably be able to use the maps, handouts, and adventures at least, and maybe the rules booklet will be good as a quick reference for some things.

Eurmal is a god of disorder, not change. He didn't create new things (though he did discover death), he just broke things. It can be argued that that's a form of change, but only a limited form, as Movement is change for the better as well as for the worse, or change for neither. Orlanth is the Orlanthi god of change, not Eurmal.

I don't think he had Issaries connections, but he was a Larnsting so he was very closely connected to Movement.

>Shargash >Not a martial cult I beg your pardon?

Considering RBoM lists it as a Darkness spell, apparently not

Over in the unofficial Chaosium discord David gave Berserker, Fear, Dismiss and Summon Fire Elemental (all sizes), Shield, and Summon Underworld Demon (all sizes) as his special spells. I seem to remember him having Humor as well, though I don't remember where I heard that. Edit: Just went and rechecked some things and can confirm that Shargash doesn't have Humor. My bad, I was conflating speculation with the facts. Humor is probably a special spell from Talor if I had to guess, maybe he'll get a writeup like Hrestol's with the Invisible God cult.

If losing Rightness can result in expulsion from your case, I wonder how many Dronars in places like Seshnela are actually Dronars, since they are used in the army occasionally.