SDLeary

Yes, full suits are different. Anytime that you have a well fitting suit of protection, I would also minimize potential damage, but would probably vary more based on material. SDLeary

It would depend upon the type of armor I would think. If by armor you are referring to varying pieces, or a chain hauberk and helmet with other bits, or just a cuirass, then I think the current method of single die works beautifully. If, on the other hand you are talking about something along the lines of the full Dendara Panoply, or a full Late Medieval Harness, then I would go with multiple dice, as the design has specifically minimized exposed areas, and even a blow that glances or rides a plate is probably going to be stopped more completely. If cover applies a percentage penalty to hit, yes. The other way to accomplish this is no penalty and to apply the barrier as variable armor. This of course would get us back to problems about types of penetration, etc. But for a low rule core system, this could work. SDLeary

+1 for the Python reference SDLeary

I am variable... no thats not my choice! It depends on the game and the amount of detail. If I want to play a DnD-ish type game, variable is great, and easily to pick up, though it does add that additional pesky die roll. If I'm after something a bit grittier, then its locations with fixed AP. I have also been toying around with the idea of locations AND variable AP (think ballistic vests "converting" the damage from penetrating to blunt force). SDLeary

I'm not so sure this is accurate. While a hit that doesn't cause noticeable impairment immediately, it can over time (BRP aggravation). So I would say a non-impairing hit would still be important. If the PC doesn't (or can't) get it treated, it still might get them in the end. Impairment effects will vary depending upon the severity of the hit. This variance will be greater if the round cannot cause enough damage once the hit occurs; both skill and round capability factor into this. As to a Lethal hit, yes. But being an RPG you also have to factor in heroism. Will the character be able to respond in kind before they fade out? Has their equipment protected them enough that they can get off one more shot at their assailant? Will John Reese be able to knee cap the tactical squad and reach his target before he falls unconscious? And even in the real world, the results in this regard would probably be a bit different from CQB vs. distance fighting, where you could have a bit more time to properly aim. SDLeary

Yes. Hence the reintroduction of the d12, and the somewhat reduction in the smaller pistols and rifles (1d4 and 1d6 respectively). Penetration is trickier unless you have an actual penetration stat for weapons of some type. You guys should take a look at the new Delta Green Agents Handbook. It looks like they have actually increased firearms damage over what they had in the old books. SDLeary

I can understand that, everyone is happy with different levels of abstraction. Assuming a BGB, or suitable Basic Role-Playing successor, I would work it something like this, with examples in parens... -------------- Pistols Plinker 1d4 (.22 LR and such) Light 1d6 (.32, .38, .380APC) Medium 1d8 (9mm, .40 S&W, .357 Magnum) Heavy 1d10 (.45, 10mm Auto, many magnums) Rifles (and machine guns) Plinker 1d6 (.22 LR and such) Light 1d8 (5.56mm and cousins) Medium 1d10 (7.62 and cousins) Heavy 1d12 (.338 Lapua, big game hunting rifles) Ridiculous 1d20 (.50 cal, and others) For automatic weapons, a burst adds a second die. Specials impale, and use the same rules; both dice from auto weapons impale. Specials bleed at 1pt/turn (ignorable). Criticals are max impale damage. Criticals bleed at 1pt/melee (ignorable). Major Wounds automatically bleed. Fully Automatic weapons fire is generally used differently, shooting into an area or sweeping in a particular direction, in order to Suppress their targets. Targets must make a Willpower check (POW x3??) or are suppressed. Suppressed targets are at half skill till the end of the combat, or until they have hit a target of their own, whichever comes first. Exposed targets (those in the target area not specifically hiding behind cover) may still be hit; roll 30 minus the targets DEX to see if they have been hit. ------------ Or something along those lines. And of course, this would have to be jiggled if using hit locations. SDLeary

Lethal, yes. Not insta-kill. The damages you are proposing are way too high. Lethal includes those that make it to the hospital, but die several days later in ICU. And to be honest... even that number sounds high. SDLeary

So, you quote past articles about the US Army looking into the possibility of using hollow point rounds in a possible future handgun, and automatically apply it to the past? Again, outside of SOF missions, the US has not used hollow point ammunition. You are right that the US did not sign the Hague Convention of 1899, but we did sign Hague II in 1907. Also from Wikipedia... Now, despite section IV-23, we did use Chem weapons in WW I (all parties did), and the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WW II, incendiary weapons (bombs and napalm, as have other nations), and have used Shotguns in combat from WW I to the Present. SDLeary

Not much change has actually occurred in ammunition over the last 25 years that would invalidate the FBI study. I also think that you are seriously mis-informed regarding the US Military and use of expanding rounds. In general they don't, perhaps with the exception of SOF missions. The military has been increasingly looking (along with larger police forces in the US) at frangible rounds, that shatter when encountering a significant barrier. This is in an attempt to prevent civilian casualties, such as hitting a civilian because you missed your target and the round decided to penetrate two or three walls behind, and hit that family that was huddling in their bedroom. SDLeary

Then I will say that the party navigator and pilot on the tramp hauler between Titan and Ceres is going to run into trouble when the going gets tough and they have a couple of torpedoes closing on them. Just a note. Spot can also be used as a fallback skill, not as an active skill. In the above example it would probably be the guy with astronomy that would notice that there is an extra star on the visuals that isn't there on the maps, or the person with Anatomy or Medicine that will note that the "dead guy" with the hole through his heart still has a pulse and a distinctive something beating on the other side of his chest. In fact, you could get rid of Spot, and still have the ability to do so, though it would be more skill limited. The other possibility here is to simply note their skill level, and don't have them roll. Higher the skill level, the quicker they come across the item in question. IIRC, this is something that is in the new Delta Green book. SDLeary

Why? Do you run with Search/Spot being an absolute? I would say that if they fail, the clue/data/whatever simply takes longer to find. Fumble? Perhaps they fall down and injure themselves, and then someone else in the party finds it and rubs their nose in it. If you feel that Search/Spot is more an inherent thing, pull it out and base it on a characteristic or two? There are any number of ways to handle things while not truly messing with the core of BRP. SDLeary

Because with a melee weapon, the size of the person matters? Because SIZ includes the height component, it also affects reach, and thus which weapon should strike first. You can be Bilbo, or you can be Thrud, but the mechanical function of a missile weapon is the same and SIZ really doesn't com into it. Damage for thrown weapons of course being the exception. SDLeary

Perhaps via the shock roll mentioned? Critical hit followed by a failure (or fumble if we are being generous) of the Shock roll? I was assuming ball as well. AP dropping a step and HP/Frangable up a step sounds about right. As for PEN... What about using the die type as the basis. Say 1/2 max die value for ball, max die value for AP? Now I know that this puts the smaller rounds at a serious disadvantage, but I'm looking at values that essentially ignore archaic armors, and still keep ballistic vests with AP values in the realm of sanity. With this proposal, .22LR (and similar rounds) are nerfed, but do we even know if a modern small light round like this would punch through plate harness? Possibly with a jacketed round, but I would suspect not with the common soft metal round I would assume not. SDLeary

Well, I am assuming they hit harder. Spitzer bullets use a lot of that in their penetration, and don't transfer as much to their targets. But as I said, it was at a glance; oh and I am still working from the perspective of Locations (hard to break RQ3 mindset). With a .22LR, its not an insta-kill, but assuming the automatic bleeding that was mentioned before, on a Crit an average person would expire only two to three melee rounds later. SDLeary

Using your sequence: 1d4, 1d6, 1d8 (.45 and .357), 1d10 (10mm and .44), 1d8, 1d10, 2d10 is where I would stick things at a glance. The 8 – 12 mm rounds between 7.62 and .50 would fall somewhere in the 1d12 area, perhaps with plus added lower dice (1d4, 1d6,etc). Small Spitzer type rounds would be in the 1d6 (such as 5.7 x 28), or 1d4 (4.6 x 30, .17) realm. Of course, there is always the ability to fudge things one way or the other. Especially with some of the odd cartridges that use a small slug and huge case. SDLeary

Something like this would certainly help, but then if we can't even get weapon damage down to a single point, how do we figure a "0" point graze? And I'm certain that many many would argue "if I didn't take any damage..." blah blah blah, and I could certainly understand this for direct damage weapons. Now I seriously like your idea for explosive weapons, but thats a different thread. SDLeary

No, that wasn't the reason. Ostensibly it was due to the change in the figuring of SIZ and the resulting increase in HP. It was odd that it didn't factor to all weapons though. SDLeary

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I'm not opposed to adds, either flat adds or multiple dice, but the way they are applied now, things are just too off. In any event, if d12 is used, then we do have to worry about adds in anything above that. In my own estimation, I would say that break point should probably be around .50cal, anything below that should rely on a single die. I would suggest that adds be additional dice rather than flat, as the latter can get seriously ridiculous. This, of course, is the real trick. A "rifle" round (Spitzer) will "generally" do less damage that the equivalent round nosed slug, but will penetrate barriers better while retaining damaging energy. Do we introduce Penetration Value as a new weapon stat? Is this based on a number of points of damage ignored (independent of damage value of the weapon), or is it more a level thing (firearms ignore archaic armor, or a portion thereof)? Personally, I'm more inclined to the former rather than the latter. SDLeary

In RQ3, you could not adjust the location. Basically, you announced your intent to strike a particular location. You had to wait till the end of the round, then roll less than or equal to half your skill. In RQ2, one of the options was for you to delay for an option to adjust the location roll. For each SR delay, you may adjust the location roll up or down by 1, but you are rolling skill at full value. Your option sounds good, though I'm not sure I would modify by 5. You are essentially allowing a modification by up to 1/4 the range in either direction (or half the total range, depending upon outlook). SDLeary

I can't remember if this was a Chaosium thing, or just something our group did. We played that repeating weapons that didn't have to be cocked (semi-autos, or in the case of the OP, revolvers) could be fired on subsequent DEX ranks until the weapon was dry, as long as it was the same target, and as long as the target was not laterally moving. Of course, with regards to revolvers this would only apply to DA and not SA weapons. SDLeary

Your referring to this paragraph? We never played as you described, because our characters were always using swingy type weapons, often with shields. Also note the example is describing bow use, a weapon that will keep the character out of melee even after all movement is complete. In the description here, with the bow, I would allow it, but at a reduced movement; you are not simply moving towards your target, but keeping an eye on the target, drawing, aiming, loosing, repeat, thus your steps are more measured and deliberate. Now I could be convinced to allow as you described with pointy weapons, such as spears, or stabbing with swords, but would probably reduce the charging characters ability to defend. Or perhaps even just ramming with a shield. SDLeary

I find making this decision afterwards slows down things as well. Something that has crossed my mind though, and this clearly puts me in Beforehand camp,... "Special Effects" are something that the character is trained in, a way to use their weapon(s). So why not simply allow the player to choose a number of effects during character creation and log them as part of their Combat Style? This does nerf to some extent effects that require a specific success level, such as critical. This could be solved by OQ type modifiers, as someone mentioned above, but is a step back in some ways to the old RQ choose location half skill. It does, however, maintain the full list of current effects and leaves room for more. SDLeary

Differing weapon damages is nothing new though. Short spear went from 1d6+1 in RQ2 to 1d8+1 in RQ3; likewise Long spear went from 1d8+1 to 1d10+1. And those are just the two that I remember. I'm sure there are others that changed. SDLeary