icebrand

Hmmm... I don't have house rules, i have a complete game system LOL (which happens to be compatible with RQ2, but has a ton from RQG and Elric!)

Well, what would be the point of making them roll? I kind of need context for this! Im gonna assume this is RQG and you are roleplaying initiations either at session 0/1 or as a flashback. So, you need not only to prepare the whole initiation ritual, but also figure out how they can succeed when (if) they fail the rolls; so maybe if they fail the endurance test they need to succeed on a harder challenge (with cult skills?) but again keep in mind what could happen if they fail again? Maybe failing everything but persevering and pushing on anyway in the face of defeat was the *real* challenge all along? Now, if failing the initiation is a real possibility, i honestly believe the CON rolls are "overly punsishing" for a "normal" RQ Game (maybe in your glorantha initiates are fewer and very special?)

If the mooks kill off the PCs then the PCs misplayed and it's 100% on them! To be honest i used to "do the trick" (or try to). Nowadays? Nah! If you take the risk, fail, and it doesnt "disrupt" the game, then it wasnt a risk at all!!! My NPCs dont come randomized because it's a lot of work; but why not? Why can't your fledgling hero stumble around a swordsmaster? I mean noone FORCES you to fight them, and if you do and (most likely) lose, thats on you; you can do whatever you like, but your actions have consequences. I remember i was DMing for a level 6 group in D&D and they found out the great power that could help them defeat the invading orc army was a Lich. They didnt like it and decided to get vocal about it. The Lich warned them in a friendly manner, and the Barbarian decided to reply by raging (which triggered a contigency and then i had the pleasure of TPKing before any player could roll a single die)... Was the adventure disrupted? Probably. Did the players learn something? Well, i'm not sure but at least now they know theres no such thing as a CR6 Lich 😂 ... FOR YOU. Like, seriously, this "does it" for you, and thats awesome, but it means nothing to me; when i want pre-written pre-ordained i just read a book. Why would a player death ruin a campaign? Change it? Sure... End it?? Maybe? But end... Idk man maybe it's all that pre-ordained thing i don't do. If they don't want to lose their characters then they better play well, be lucky and/or bribe me well enough 😂. I love that they are invested in their characters, heck, im usually invested in their characters as well... Shame the universe is a cold, uncaring place and if the die say you die you better believe you meeting daka fal! The place beyond the pines, psycho, burn after reading, cain, contagion, the blob, life, executive decision (that one is baaad lol), deadproof, live and die in la, la confidential, cabin in the woods, hostel, the Transformers one when optimus prime dies 5 minutes in (irredeemable!!!), Alien, the thin red line, the boys from brazil, gi Joe retaliation... I can go on but on all those the protagonist dies midway and is replaced by someone else. As for movies where Bad guys win... Starwars 3 & 5, Chinatown, No country for old men, seven, brightburn, Jason X (best movie in the franchise btw), most romero zombie movies, 300, gladiator, again i could keep going (this one has many more examples than the former). They werent actually firing at them, just pretending; you see, they had a tracking device and it was just the exact same plan Vader used earlier in the kenobi series, because Vader doesnt just fail, he fails again and again trying the same thing (man that series was super disappointing). Lets say a good GM saw an inevitable TPK and came up with an alternative. Why should the universe not fail? If the stakes of the conflict are the universe exploding... Well, congrats for running a super awesome campaign? Then the PCs die and you know what? You *SHOULD* blow up the universe!!! That will teach them!! Like... Consider it, you have nothing to lose! Lets say BRP enables that kind of playstyle. And yeah, i try to avoid making people roll the same thing over and over because i have a vague idea of how maths work 🙂

I'm in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Back then we played AD&D 2e with a photocopied book because there was nowhere to buy the thing unless you phisically went to the US or something! Also heres the history of crítical hits for dungeons and dragons: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/a-short-history-of-critical-hits-in-dd/ Ad&D 2e had several optional rules for crits, we used roll double weapon damage. Yeah but you just can't equate them like that. A level 11 caster can cast level 6 spells; thats way beyond any RQ skill. Oh, by the way, a level 11 Barbarian can drop from orbit and do a super hero landing (without dying, because they are angry or smth). More like oranges and lemons maybe. I think D&D and RQ are different fantasy subgenres; the story you get by the rules will be wildly different in both systems. RQ is "grittier" if you want? I think runequest rules are closer to my perception of reality than D&D's, and it's not even close. You may disagree of course, but everyone knows i'm always right 😂 But a level 10 is not a basic runelord; a level 10 is a runelord that would have a very high skill and be able to fight a lot of trollkin at once. A runelord that drops a trollkin to 5% attack and parry is actually less threatened by it than a level 10 fighter fighting a 1hd creature; the trollkin has under 1% of actually hitting, and even then it may do no damage due to armor or get their hit healed. Worst case scenario the runelord needs to ID, but thats around the same chance of the 1hd creature critting you 2x while you miss everything (in this extreme D&D is less punsishing through, which takes us to my 100% true and uncontestable fact that RQ is more realistic 🤪). The "lucky crítical hit" really does need to be lucky. 1st your mook needs to crit. Crit chances are already low, and when fighting high level rune masters, it's probably no greater than 1-2%. After you hit, you also need the runemaster not to parry you. Even critting for 14pts with your trollkin spear will quickly become nothing if parried, which happens 19/20 times. So, lets say the 1% crit chance trollkin makes it, and the runelord 96-00s... Ok, now theres 70% you hit a non vital area, which will be healed, but now the trollkin is putting the runelord against the ropes, so they are likely to see rune magic retaliation (gg). But, lets say you hit vitals! This is actually a 0,015% chance. It's 1 and a half in 10 thousand... Ok, so now the runelord DIs, and depending on the cult and player predisposition the poor cursed uz is looking at best at a horrible, gruesome, exceedingly cruel death, because players reaaaaaly hate losing POW and if the culprit is a friggin trollkin i can easily imagine them straight up torturing the thing. And no matter if it's a single trollkin, or two or five... How many times are you gonna roll 0,015% back to back? (The answer is one... At best). The mook didnt drop Rurik, the shade did. For comparison, a large elemental is CR5. Thats not a mook, thats a monster for 4 level 5 players, AND there were other mooks. Thirdly, there was another single PC, maybe they couldnt help or something. Mathematically speaking, if you play the lottery enough times, you will eventually hit the jackpot... Only we both know this isnt how it works? If you hit Batman or Bond long enough you hit them and wound them. Death wasnt a possibility because of the medium. Death IS a possibility in RPGs. This is about plot armor, not game mechanics! 💪💪💪💪 This. This a thousand times. What good are the players exploits if it was actually the GM making them succeed? Yes, thats why the players have like.. 70-90% (made up %) chance, but thing is... What happens the other 30-10% of the time? I'm a firm believer in failing forward (so, those times you lose face / limbs / die). Other people just "fudge it". At our table, we call that cheating; we are ok with changing a rule, or introducing mechanics. We are not ok with the GM (or anyone) messing with the dice. If You don't like the result you don't roll; we have agreed on rules -which may or may not be raw- so we play by them. Ours is not "the GM story we are part of" but everyones story. The dice guide us better since they don't have any bias! (Continuing on next post because this is too long and the editor is going crazy in my phone)

So, basically rq2 yelmalio with extras!!! Not bad, not bad at all! They become badass once more!

My D&D experience is 95% with AD&D 2e and 5% 3/3.5ed. Personally this is the 1st time i hear about DI in d&d, and realistically all those types of spells are for characters who are vastly more powerful than whatever RQ RAW can generate: raise dead (the most basic res spell) is a lv5 cleric spell, which means you need to be lv9(!) to cast it and as a lv9 cleric you should be more powerful than any RQ PC (or about the same with the most powerful players, but it's *much* easier to get there). Because RQ and D&D are different genres! Imagine a runelord is what? Lv5? Sure, you have more HP and can't get 1hit by a mook, but many mooks can still take resources, while in RQ you parry way more attacks, negating all damage. Again, apples to oranges; D&D is attrition based, and RQ is more realistic, fights are either parry or take a wound that has a good chance to take you out. If a mook stabs you while you are down in current D&D you automatically fail your dead save; any damage does the same, it doesnt matter. Same thing with Coup de Grace in 3e! In 2e if you are down a mook is super dangerous! You died at -10 as far as i can remember? So your con/level didnt matter at all!!! It's a feature, not a bug. And it's an amazing feature, and i read about tons of people ignoring it! I have no idea. It reads like Rurik died by a shade attack, then uses DI not to die, but he was on the ground or something and the trollkin criticalled on a leg, so he was damaged from before? Is it really that secondary? It's actually the strength and beauty of RQ; there are no mooks, everyone is a person. I think this is why i dislike super stuff outside the rules, it breaks the contract. And i say... Why not? You already are playing RuneQuest, why not play the strengths? Yes a random "mook" can totally take you out. I mean, if as i player i find out my GM made the broo not impale me in the head for 27 points and i die, then what good is my runelordship? I'm don't really have the Mastery rune, i would not deserve my title any more than a random NPC the GM popped out of thin air; id rather die to a mook than have my adventuring career being... I don't know how to say it... Fake? I think there are other systems that do that kind of game better -but of course they don't do glorantha at all, unless you play HQ- RQ on the other hand, is a magical game where anything can happen, for good and for bad. Also a player death doesnt ruin the adventure, just derails it! I fear a "weakness" of the game is that it has a long chargen; this doesnt synergize very well with all these super lethal situations the adventurers face all the time, but you can always make everyone roll a backup character (i have a stack of customizable pregens instead). Well, thats because it's a George Lucas as GM. He values characters because it's a movie and stuff. But if you are playing han solo at my runequest, well... The storm trooper shoots you and you die, and thats why RQ aint very good for a starwars game. Maybe chewbacca saves the party and they fly to bespin, and Lando takes over? Maybe han solos twin, dan solo comes to the rescue? For me the magic of runequest is that i don't know what's gonna happen. And if the dm doesnt know, you can bet the players don't either!!! And that, for me, makes for the ultimate adventure game.

The spine of the night. Runequestest thing ive ever seen! Trailer:

YES. 😂 My ghosts are overly edgy and dramatic and obsessed with whatever they made them ghosts. Ghosts are kinda losers and played for laughs. Some have STR (and can move stuff) and those are the assholy variant. Spirits are mob psycho 100 style (or studio ghibli style if they be good). Not only that but you also get a bear avatar behind you while you cast!!! My characters once found "the horror from the stars", a curious stone from the stars that teleported them wherever they wanted (at -1 CON price) and answered whatever they asked (INTx1 or fall down in agony while too much information floods your head). Of course "it" had an agenda; the players throught it was an alien supercoputer but it was the one and only nyarlathotep speaking through his Shining Trapezohedron. Sadly for Big N, the players threw the item in a lake, and we all know thats a foolproof way of getting rid of it (or not?) My shields are big semi translucent magical shields in front of your character. This gives me a way for crits / powered spells to byspass them! I did that my previous campaign. Magic gets very "meta" this way, enemies can't tell if you have a sword or a man-portable WMD,

Yes swords can parry. I was asking about 1h axe/mace/spear, who can all parry 2h, but 1h i just can't picture it.

Did people (historically) parry with 1h spear, axes or maces? 2h style you parry with the haft, i can picture that, but 1h? Like, ive seen those guys fighting on YouTube and from the looks of it, you can't? I'm considering making those weapons parry at 1/2%; if you have one of those you either bring a shield or dodge! Anyone with real life (like HEMA or SCA) experience can chime in? Well, thanks in advance!!!

It is intended Jeff himself confirmed it. If it doesnt matter for you what's your issue with it??? Please quote my complaints; that would be super weird (because i have none). What message are you even reading? I didnt make this thread, i didnt complain, and i didnt make no points.

I don't need to? I was just pointing out canon.

I would say that the rules fail to conform in this case; this would be akin to playing dnd and saying "ok, you want to be a fighter, you can be lv1, lv3 or lv5" and then complain that people always pick level 5 and this doesnt fit the lore where there are many more lv1s. But this is glorantha and the fiction says the 17-year old humakti initiate just uses 1 RP and beats the crap out of the wind lord like Mike Tyson in his prime against a middle schooler; the game is not balanced so this is a feature and you don't get to complain about it.

I'm sorry, "being down with" means being ok with it, right? They already were competitive in my campaign a year ago, i have no horse in the yelmalio race other than discuss mechanics which is something i enjoy. Also humakt got nerfed because a starting character with some MP automatically wins every single melee and that made for very boring/frustrating gameplay. I don't think so. If you want to play a warrior those are the warrior cults, why pick something else? Also a (young) warrior definitively should have their weapon skill as their highest? Id argue that a humakti whose best skill*isnt* sword is a poorly built. Reverse minmaxing if you will.

Why are you surprised? I think you are very confused about the type of games i run. 13th age looks super cool but it's very complicated to run and doesnt have much content. Oh, ok! If i had your character i would have said "138% attack 6 AP" since the rest is all magic and in our group never add that to baseline stats!

I imagine thats not an RQG character, i mean how do you get 220% without dying of old age? Thats like 20+ years of experience if you start with 100% and like a 35% modifier. Also 30 AP??? What are you wearing, castle wall armor? 😅 And +12 damage? Thats like 11 pts of bladesharp or what? Anyway, what i meant by being good at maths is that even your character can die if they fail to parry a crit, so you need to play accordingly. THE cacodemon? Or a fiend? In my current campaign you play with semi-pregens and enemies are as they are in the book or veterans with +20% for random encounters, or whatever comes in the scenarios for NPCs. There is no minmaxing going on unless you consider picking a cult, your skills and spells minmaxing. Also as a GM i feel *zero* need to minmax; like if you are homebrewing the encounter, no need to tweak anything, you can just add more creatures until You win. I mean your orlanthi clearly mops the floor with a teen that works at mcdonald's (he has no magic, 9 all stats, club 25% 1d6), but can you win against 20? 100? 500? I don't play that type of game anymore. Been there, done that, D&D does it much much much better (i don't like D&D btw). I play published stuff, if Jeff and Jason design with a different aim i'm probably playing as intended what am i even playing if not? If anything i'm playing *less* powergamey than RAW; for example at my table shield only gives 1 armor / point and i don't allow trance spells. (Also some other tweaks, i have jeffs written permission btw 🤪)

Yelorna is the best!!! Star track to find your prey, then you spend *all* your runepoints in shooting star and bam! Pre-cooked food!!!

Macedonians used a pelta, which is smaller than a hoplite shield. The shield was slung from the neck and the arm; its size doesnt cover the hand so you can use your 2h spear. The shield does have mobility, it's not just hanging there. In real life skilled people would attack the eyes or other unarmored locations, a fixed shield would have been pretty useless. Anecdotically, it's kind of imposible to use a pike and a large shield (like a hoplon and a sarissa). In real life you have either longspear (1h) + large shield or pike (2h) + medium shield. source: google

I once bought Edge's Hero Wars in spanish... Man that was the worst translation since ad&d's and "arco-x" y "cerrojo de relámpagos" lol. If all their books are like that they kind of deserve to be dropped by chaosium, they just dont have enough quality.

Do you have any advice on how to play against it? When my players use it i feel i'm misplaying unless i dismiss it, and then the game revolves around who has more RP; also dismissing it every time it gets cast gets old and doesnt feel satisfactory, i feel it's a lose/lose situation (to the point i had to forbid the spell). I don't know what to tell you since march '21 we played published scenarios exclusively; im not privy to the design team expectations, but i can't believe they are THAT different?

Yeah, i fear the system evolved and some legacy features don't work as well with it. Rq2 has skills over 100% reducing the opponents *but* only runelords could go over 100 (and if they became lord+priest they couldnt increase skill any longer) The % increase magic was límited to +20% weapon enchant, Morale (very situational) and fanaticism (which had plenty counterplay with demoralize and "beating the crap out of the guy who can't parry" RQ3 came along with huge % increases (Berserker, uncapped spirit magic, Axe trance, etc) but your skill didnt reduce the opponents and once above 100 it wansnt that big of a deal (heck a 150% character fighting a 100% character in RQG has better odds than a 300% character fighting a 100% character in RQ3). Then RQG went back to %over 100 reducing opponents, but left all the RQ3 magic as it was, an even added sword trance for humakti... All this stuff males RAW painful to play if you care about fun combat tbh.

Because you are playing RuneQuest and understand math?

I'm curious, why did you guys add runelords to babeester gor? They (and humakti) are pretty much unstoppable in melee due to the trance spells (this is new to this edition, since the Big % boosts were not nearly as good back in RQ3). Is this intended? Am i to believe that the average stormbull or orlanthi just gets murdered if they try to fight a cultist with trance? This is very different than the Glorantha we used to play in! I don't know what to tell you, i don't think thats the problem, but a byproduct. Let me try to explain how i feel about this: Lets say we are playing a supers game. The characters are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Lois Lane, Green Arrow, Comisioner Gordon, and a teen that works at mcdonald's (he has no powers). You say that playing teen that works at mcdonald's (he has no other powers). And i'm not arguing that, what's fun is fun, it would be like arguing if red is better than blue. Some people will find the teen not fun. Others will find Lois and Gordon (and even Green Arrow) too underpowered. Some others will spend hours trying to figure out if Batman or Superman is the best. Again, fun is relative, and where we draw the line is subjective. Because it doesnt matter how powerful the duck actually is, he relies on a gimick (Sword trance), a clearly broken runespell that literally trivializes the whole character sheet. Duck vs duck? 95% to hit, <1% to be hit Duck vs human? 95% to hit, <1% to be hit Duck vs allosaur? 95% to hit, <1% to be hit The only viable counterplay is dismiss magic, and the dismiss magic meta is awful. This is faulty logic, akin to "My adventurer doesnt need social skills because i'm charming and can convince the GM". You know what's better than clever play? Clever play with a stacked character sheet. "Even yelmalio looks good if you compare him to pavis!"

Ackshually... The best phalangites are the agimori (regarded as the very best infantry in the whole glorantha according to borderlands & beyond)

There are several persons saying it is Indeed a rules issue -or at least a game text issue- so if you say that you would need to explain why!