Jump to content

jenh

Regulars
  • Posts

    39
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by jenh

  1. 1 hour ago, Hijabg said:

    When I think back about Greg Stafford's generosity, his eagerness to share his vision and to answer our questions as we explored the world he had discovered, I wonder where that spirit is gone now, as it sure doesn't seem to be an aspect of Chaosium's Wyter anymore.

    That feels staggeringly unfair. He *did* share it, in various physical forms; that he didn't share it in other forms, or more widely, was presumably his choice. Saying that Chaosium, who are publishing lots of amazing Glorantha material, are somehow being false to the memory of someone so close to them and their work is a wretched thing to do.

    • Like 7
  2. There is some discrepency between the roads depicted on the two maps, but I put that down to matters of scale and artistic representation. It would be really helpful to have compass marks on all of the maps (or is there a stated default that I've missed?) and a scale (even for the more artistic ones), but I'm happy to assume that there are more roads just off the edges of the village centre map.

  3. 19 minutes ago, Scorus said:

    Honestly, I didn't understand that map at all. It showed a lay-out of a village that was completely different from Apple Lane and laid out 5 tenant farms when the book clearly indicated that there were 25. It is a good map, useful for a village, but I couldn't understand how it related to the official maps, pictures, and descriptions of Apple Lane.

    I'm not sure if this will help you at all, but the bit of Apple Lane that is shown in the Map of Apple Lane in the Adventure Book is the small cluster of buildings at the approximate crossroads in the centre of the Apple Lane Orchards map.

    • Like 2
  4. 7 hours ago, Dissolv said:

    You clearly went off on my players and myself without reading, or really caring to fully read what I wrote.  The players were new, we used the family history with random rolls, and holy cow did we get a weighted group of results. 

    You quoted Darius saying "These are modern sentiments that have no place in a bronze age environment if we want to get serious about roleplaying cultural sensibilities" in response to Akhôrahil stating that "a lot of players and even PCs would start to wonder if maybe there isn’t another way" (than "Argrath’s genocidal climatological warfare" and "the Telmori genocide"). Your response began "I completely agree with this.  It just isn't the nature of the world as presented, nor in line with what we know about our own ancestors.  (Or, if we are honest, about our own deeper rooted, glossed over by civilization, urges.)"

    That doesn't read as a response solely attaining to your particular current game and game group.

    Quote

    Not only is this a straight forward and obvious trope, the players clearly understood it for what it was -- the character's core motivation.  You are only one who started screeching "genocide, genocide, genocide".  Then somehow torture and rape got involved.  Awesome.

    I was not in fact the one who started mentioning genocide. Nor did I ever talk explicitly about torture and rape except through use of the term war crime.

    And since you feel okay with characterising my posts as "screeching", I have no inducement to respond to the rest of your message. What with Joerg's test of my 'theory' and your challenge, it seems 'some people in the past didn't agree with genocide' needs a lot more defending as an idea than I would have thought possible only a few days ago.

    • Like 3
  5. 11 hours ago, Joerg said:

    All of that is happening in a setting which has these bouts of horror and genocide.

    Sure; I got involved in this thread in response to Darius and Dissolv saying that not only is that horror and genocide there, but that no one properly roleplaying someone from that world would do anything other than fight, and fight without any qualms about any additional horrors they might inflict. That includes, specifically, the PCs.

    While I am all about non-violent games, I'm not interested in rewriting all of Glorantha's history, laser-focused though it is on violent conflict. I do however object strenuously to the notion that no one, including the PCs, can have a problem with genocide or do anything other than continue a cycle of violence.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  6. 10 hours ago, Joerg said:

    Just to test your theories - imagine a Glorantha where the Lightbringer missionaries are cordially greeted by the horse rider emperors of Dara Happa, spreading their lore of cosmic compromise and friendship after conflict into the lowlands. Where there were no returns of hostilities among the Elder Races, where e.g. the Mostali internal struggles would allow Nida to proclaim the doctrine and Greatway to continue its World Friends attitude in unity with aldryami and trolls. Where Arkat would have debated with Nysalor, resulting in a synthesis without all those 75 years of conflict.

    What would be the theme of your game in this world? What would be the passions of your adventurers?

    Ignoring the massive excluded middle between no violent conflict and no one thinking twice about genocide after genocide, I might play games based on exploration, discovery of lore, political conflicts that don't devolve into violence, small-scale personal stories of any number of types (romance, investigation, horror; the sort of stuff you often see on TV shows or read in books), people working to ensure that violence doesn't just consume the world yet again, people struggling to find themselves/their place in the world, etc etc etc.

    As for what passions they might have: love, loyalty, hatred, fear, devotion, honour, perhaps, if the game is RQG. These aren't things that only arise from, or inevitably lead to, spasms of violence.

    Violence really isn't the sole basis for interesting stories (for my part, it is very rarely that), and is not synonymous with conflict.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  7. 7 hours ago, Joerg said:

    I have read fantasies with significantly less violent cultures, some of them with as traumatic or more forms of human on human interactions, never mind nonhumans. These can be done, but they aren't Glorantha, a setting grown out of the publication of a wargame featuring magics of mass destruction.

    Your Glorantha may vary, provided it remains an atrocity simulator as God and Greg Stafford intended? None of those "woke sensibilities" held by some religious figures on Earth thousands of years ago allowed, for no one in Glorantha could even conceive of trying to break a cycle of violence. Let's have three ages, with each being basically the same as the last because the only new things allowed to happen are inflections on cataclysms that make things worse.

    That's a really small Glorantha; thankfully mine has room for more than "oh, I'm not a murderhobo, I'm so much more refined and better than those types, I'm a culturally rich, societally integrated violence machine re-enacting (a tiny subset of) myths".

    • Like 1
  8. 4 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

    I am appalled by the evils humanity has undertaken, and still undertakes. That doesn't stop me enjoying Glorantha.              I prefer simulation because it is the Bronze Age that interests me, not because I favour vile acts.

    Simulation is not a single thing, where if you try to simulate Glorantha you must include everyone always committing genocide and everyone always being fine with slavery unless it's because of some reason that really truly isn't anything to do with people objecting to slavery. People did a lot more eating, sleeping, and shitting than they did killing, even in Glorantha, but somehow that doesn't tend to fall into what gets simulated. What gets simulated is a deliberate choice of the person doing the simulating, and what they consider important and plausible derives from their taste and outlook.

    As for fireballing a kobold village: yes, for several decades I've been disturbed at how most roleplaying games are so centred on violence. There are vast swathes of human experience to explore, and yet.... And when games like Runequest tout the game-changing lethality of combat, it's never actually to encourage non-violence, it's to increase the difficulty of winning.

    • Thanks 2
  9. Some of you guys seem to really want genocide to be natural and inevitable. I'm guessing it's also immersion breaking not to have every war crime imaginable played out, because every soldier commits them - it's just human nature, after all, no one has ever disagreed with that except in the modern era.

    This is gross.

    • Thanks 2
  10. 6 hours ago, Dissolv said:

    Modern, overfed, couch-comfy morals aside, it is immersion breaking to not take up arms and fight like hell.

     

    Yes, no one in the history of the world, even back in the bronze age, ever thought that killing people was bad, slavery was bad, and that violence was the best option in response to any ill that befalls them. And within Glorantha, Orlanthi society explicitly specifies that there are other ways than violence, there is a determinedly pacifist goddess and cult, and Sartarite clans that don't hold slaves and won't hold slaves. I guess they like their couches too.

    • Like 3
  11. Cool; I was going to make the tiny change to the code so that it was appropriate for the southern hemisphere, but the original code quoted there does not on my system produce SVG that renders as yours does - I get a white square. The SVG itself is presumably the same.

    Edit: Turns out, the SVG produced from the code above is very different from the SVG that can be downloaded.

  12. On 11/13/2020 at 7:59 AM, Storm Khan said:

    #46 from the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tsu:

    Exactly!

    I'm hopeful that the players will be proactive in generating material that their characters can discover, of forgotten or less considered myths and representations that suit the new-but-still-true-in-Godtime world they are creating.

    • Like 1
  13. 2 hours ago, Storm Khan said:

    I am curious how this will work out / is working out. The Lunar weaponization of Chaos will be very hard to discuss rationally, especially involving PC's that have had their grandparents and/or parents obliterated spiritually and physically by the Red Bat.

    Is play in-process? Please share!

     

    Sadly this is a game I'd like to run, but isn't at the table yet. Given that the dramatic core is overcoming two cultures of violence, one backed by a corrupting influence, I envisage that a lot of the conflicts will involve the PCs struggling against their own passions. To remake the world, they'll need to remake themselves. That's what will make them heroes.

    Part of my prep will be finding and creating a variety of myths that deal with reconciliation, abdication of power, and working to right wrongs. I'm keen to see what alternatives players can come up with to the monster-slaying hero who is not fit for the civilisation they serve.

  14. My next game might well be about resolving the conflict between the Lunar Empire and the Orlanthi, maintaining the heroic and epic feel of the standard Hero Wars while eschewing the relentless focus on violence. Rather than hitting things, and undergoing heroquests and learning secrets in order to be able to hit things, or have others hit things, more and better, I'm interested in a game where: people talk with each other; change their own minds and those of others; gain understanding as an end in itself; learn and create new things; show others what they know and see; listen to others; learn to walk joyously in this life, and how to leave it with equal joy; discover ways to act gently and kindly.

    In other words, a total repudiation of Harrek, Argrath (and that only two or three of his 13 companions are women is reason enough for me to want him irrelevant), and the endless history of battle of place X, battle of place Y, use left-handed dragon magic in order to win at battle Z.

    • Like 4
    • Thanks 1
  15. While illuminated individuals play a significant role in Glorantha and the Hero Wars, they seem mostly to take advantage of the insight to get tips and tricks to hit harder and/or get others to hit for them. There aren't, in my limited knowledge of the lore, many examples of people understanding their way out of problems. Though the Lunar Empire and their illumination is meant to reconcile Chaos and not-Chaos, that seems on a practical level to actually come down to shoving the Chaos off onto those who aren't sufficiently "us" and not being bothered by that.

    In my next game I will put a focus on those gods, heroes, myths, and people that are not about hitting things, or manipulating others to hit things, and see how far, for example, Chalana Arroy can heal the body and the spirit not only of people but of Glorantha.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  16. 10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

    To save the reforested lands, an Elf hero quests to the Green Age and returns with the secret of the Dark Forest.  This secret allows the trolls to break the Curse of Gbaji, but it requires the sheltering darkness of the forest canopy to do so.  A Great Compromise is reached between Aldrya and Kyger Litor, and the Great Dark Forest spreads across the land.

    I love this! And there is hope too even in the Guide, since the woods are hostile only to most humans.

    @dumuzid, you've captured a lot more fully a thought I had had about Argrath and the way he seemed to bring people into his orbit only to shed/sacrifice them - it doesn't feel like there's much of a "we" there. Further, destruction rather than creation seems to be not only his means but also his aim, and I can't expect much good to come from that.

    A PC group is ideally suited to adding in more voices to the situation with Argrath, whether that's alongside him or against him or just rendering him irrelevant.

    Thank you everyone for your thoughts so far!

  17. The Guide gives a few hints at the plans of various groups in the Hero Wars, with some hints about the outcomes (eg, Aldryami reforestation across much of western Genertela). I'm interested in different ways that matters could turn out that are not only positive for the groups in question, but also perhaps transcend at least some hatreds and divisions. It is easy enough for me to envisage, to continue the Aldryami example, woods inimical to dwarves, trolls and humans; I'd welcome more optimistic outlooks, even well outside the usual tone of Gloranthan procession.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 2
  18. On 7/31/2020 at 12:29 PM, lordabdul said:

    (and by the way, as I'm checking the tables, is it an error that the 1H Battle Axe and 2H Battle Axe have virtually the same stats? shouldn't the 2H one have more damage and HP?)

    Page 210 of the rules states that the weapon is the same, it can just be wielded with one or two hands. Since it is "really intended for two-handed use", the extra strength required for one-handed use explains the lack of damage difference.

    • Thanks 1
  19. Page 36: "perfect world, as is" -> "perfect world, so too is"

    Page 43: It would be nice to have an illustration of Daravala instead of people already illustrated in the GSP Adventures book.

    Page 59: "journey” from Duck Point.”" -> "journey” from Duck Point." (extraneous closing quotation marks)

    Page 62: "Or Ate. One. Moment.”" -> "“Or Ate. One. Moment.” (missing initial quotation marks)

    Page 104: Thinala presumably gave birth to Pala before initiating to Babeester Gor (though per page 93, she spent her early years as a temple guardian) but as a returned axe maiden, is adopting a child appropriate? Or am I confused about the familial restrictions placed on those following Babeester Gor? 

    Page 105: Asmara is twice referred to as Amsara.

    Page 105: In the first column it is said that Ernalda's stand-in is usually Ereneva, but in the second column it says for outcomes #1 and #3 that Ernalda is portrayed by Ereneva and the crowd goes wild because they were expecting Daravala.

    Page 105: "steady thrumming bea" -> "steady thrumming beat"

     

×
×
  • Create New...