Sir_Godspeed

In the RW, most practicioners of transcendent practices that seek spiritual enlightenment would probably argue that going into such practices with such selfish goals would preclude them from actually ever achieving enlightenment. Obviously, Glorantha is a game world, and functions by its own internal logic - but how does motives and other such elements affect the chances of Illumination (or, I guess, the TYPE of Illumination one ends up with). This applies not just to Ogres, of course, but all sorts of Chaos entities that might want to remain hidden from Storm Bulls or other anti-Chaos measures. This is all with the caveat that such argument of selfishness (or malevolence, etc) precluding Illumination isn't just one practicioner's "no true Scotsman" argument against fellow practicioners they disagree with.

EDIT: double-posted.

I think "Bull-Orlanthi" and "Ram-Orlanthi" are just informal ways to describe which groups tend to primarily make their living off cattle or sheep - or maybe it has to do with which animal they associate their highest god with (Heortlings seem to value cattle highest, for example, but tend to view Orlanth with ram-features more than they do bull-features, which is relegated to Urox.) But that's just my interpretation. As for the movement of the missionaries - it was my impression that they came through Maniria (via the Entruli states) and Ralio (via Dorastor) before entering Fronela. Although I don't see why a northern angle might not have occured simultaneously. As for the Tawari - it's less that they were full-on Hsunchen, and more that they were animal-totemic Storm pastoralists (like Praxians, I guess). They may have once been the equivalent of Hsunchen before the Storm Age, even, but at some point they appear to have adopted more clear theistic and Storm-based societes (at least based on the clues we get in sources related to Western Peloria, ie. Bisosae, etc.)

If you have an epidemic going around, or a camp of wounded soldiers, putting some death-delaying spells around might be really valuable. Just giving the actual healers some extra time. Could it be used to delay the decay of foodstuffs? I assume the are already ways to do that with simpler spells, but this could be another. EDIT: This might be stretching it, but could it be used to remove/neutralize poisons or venoms from food as well?

I mean, I *did* manage to follow that, but it was dangerously close to word salad for me. Once Lunar satrapies that don't follow the borders of traditional regions, but may or may not share names with them, and the myriad minor local kingdoms of Peloria come into the picture I feel like I did when I first opened up King of Sartar for the first time.

Very fascinating! I was considering associating the Ram people (although not necessarily the Andam Horde) with Janard Lastralgar and the Lastralgartelli who according to the myths lead a (failed) invasion of Dara Happa, whereupon his tribe split - although the resulting Star Tribes settled on the Upper Oslir, so I discounted them from having anything to do with the Talastarings. This, however, not only makes more sense, but gives them an incredibly interesting backstory. I have a fondness for all those other Storm peoples that got sort of came and went/haven't been covered as well. After looking at the wiki, it seems to say that Visku is their name for Top-of-the-World rather than Orlanth himself, is this correct (I don't have the Guide on my, sadly). Are the Viskuan the same as the Talastarings, or where they ancestral to the West-Pelorian and Fronelan Orlanthi prior to the Darkness or in the Gray Age or something? EDIT: I remember that the story of the raid on Arran included passing through a pass, but I didn't seriously consider current-day Gloranthan geography too seriously in that story, since God Time geography is a bit all over the place. I'll reconsider that attitude. I guess maybe it was Kartolin Pass or nearby, then? Also, is Aggar of Vingkotling provenance, or similarly of another group?

That's the one I gobbled up hungrily a while back when googling wildly for sources on Glorantha. Good stuff.

A fairly quick question: The Talastarings were contacted by the Unity Council around 100 after the Dawn, and maintained relations/joined them after that. They seem to have organized from nine clans to nine tribes? I am not sure if this means that this was the first time they had contact, or whether they had previously been contacted by Lightbringer missionaries. We are also told (by @Jeff if I remember correctly) that the Talastarings fared a lot worse than the Heortlings in the Darkness and did not have any significant survival legends/secrets of their own. In practice, this meant that they took in much of the Lightbringer missions' teachings and effectively became Heortlings. What I am wonder is if what the Talastarings were before the Greater Darkness battered them so low. Were they the last remnant of one of the Vingkotling tribes Are they the amalgamation of the last remnants of several Vingkotling tribes? This seems to me to be the simplest answer, however the map of settlements of the Dawn Age in the Book of Heortling Mythology places them borth of the Penenthelli and the Berenethtelli, which appear to me to be the northernmost actual Vingkotlings. It also means that these tribes were still around, and not battered so badly they ceased to exist. There are arguably Orlanthi even further north, such as the Sylilans (BoHM calls them Sylilings, but same things, I assume), just south of Alkoth, and as far as I know, they are a kind of Storm people devoted to Odayla. I am not sure if they were ever considered a part of the Vingkotling confederation/ethnicity, although there are Heortling myths that state that Odayla was a Thunder Brother, and was granted Sylila by Orlanth, so it would at least seem like they were part of a common cultural area, if nothing else. (Not necessarily in the sense that this myth is literally true, but at least in the sense that Odayla was significant enough for southern Vingkotlings/Heortlings to regularly feature him in their stories, and mention his homeland by name.) So... yeah... them Talastarings, eh? (Answers for other Storm Belt peoples is also welcome, but please keep it specific, as I am woefully uncertain about a lot of the Pelorian Orlanthi, such as Brolia, Charg, etc.)

In the Wooing of Ernalda, at least, she's dealing with Orlanth who is basically being a temperamental, insecure teen.

Yeah, I was thinking that it was just using pseudo-Latin to get across an opposite to enlightenment (which already uses illuminare/illumino from Latin.)

O.o

Kralorela also has mastered the arts of "industrialized" necromancy. At least enough to row their galley fleets. Who, exactly, in the Dragon Emperor's employ is doing this I'm not sure if we're ever told, nor what kind of magic they employ to do it. Anyway, I'd hazard a guess that "necromancy" probably is less of a specific discipline of sorcery and more of a catch-all/umbrella term that is contextually sensitive.

There's the old Taoist parable about Zhangzhu who dreamt he was a butterfly, then woke up. Then he expressed doubt about whether he was a man who dreamt he was a butterfly, or whether he was a butterfly currently dreaming he was a man. Centuries later, Decartes touched on some of the same inherent unreliability of the experienced world, by focusing on a systematic discrediting of senses as proofs of reality. He even, much to the chagrin of Brithini I would argue, discredited fundamental mathematics, as the universal proportions of geometry might just be illusory. Dragon's dreams manifest as baser, more primitive aspects of themselves. In order to ascend to a higher (less entangled, less particularistic too perhaps?) plane of existence, they commit suicide. Death as the ultimate awakening from the dream that is the cosmos? There's certainly a lot to work with here if you want to.

Hm... the primeval tree canopy absorbs the light, making the underbrush dark and shadowy.... Too literal thinking, or extended allegory? (Greater Darkness notwithstanding)

I'd assume that learning to actively interact with one's dreams (ie. lucid dreaming of some kind or other) is something that many traditions, including shamans, mystics*, sorcerers and probably various theists develop - though which ones I couldn't tell. (*Mystics are arguably developing lucid dreaming abilities within the waking world, if they cosmos can be seen as just another layer of dreams to escape to achive Liberation/Stillness/Nothingness, etc.)

During my time here on BRP I've come to more deeply enjoy the world of Glorantha, and may have gotten some understanding of some of its "secrets", the style with which the texts are often written, and arguably some of the intent behind them. While it's unlikely that anything I write down is totally in line with the canon, it would be fun to try my hand at making up some hopefully-engaging pieces, most likely some kinds of flash fiction and the like. These are my current ideas, off the top of my head: - How Moss Was Made and How Moss Died (Green Age, Greater Darkness Plant Myth) - How Ygg Seastorm Saved The World (Greater Darkness Yggite Myth) - The Tragedy of Shargash, Most Dutiful of Sons (Storm Age and Greater Darkness Shargashite Myth, possibly heretical, definitely secret). - The Buraroxi of Northern Pent (Overview of Storm-worshipping Muskox pastoralists of Northern Pent, not based on Guide material). - Yelmalio the Scapegoat (Low-tradition folktale of the Cold Sun's selfless sacrifice in the Greater Darkness, likely apochryphal). - Rearguard Shale's Last Stand (Greater Darkness Praxian Myth, and guide to gaining spell based on said myth). Not sure when/if they will be made, but I thought I might as well post it up so I don't forget about them.

I was going to say that's like a female version of Himile, but sadly that's not relevant for the thread. EDIT: Also, please put this behind a spoiler tag next time, you have no idea how much the Groke traumatized me as a child! (and adult )

I don't know if this is an attempt at trolling or if its straightforward crassness, but can't we just let people enjoy things?

Well, the Lunar slogan is "We are all uz".

You juuust missed the correction boat, sorry. Also, I'm guessing the Greek is standard, since the onesie version is apparently called a monokini. (In reality, both Latin and Greek are merely intruding onto what is rightfully Pikinni, from Marshallese, an Austronesian language, but that is neither here nor there.)

@Joerg very kindly reminded me that it would be a tetra-kini, given that it's not counting the individual cups of the top, but rather the top and bottom pieces. I am deeply sartorially ashamed.

I've been silently amused by the fact that the Mistress Troll is straight up drawn with a chainmail bikini*, one of the most egregious tropes of fantasy. But in this piece it just sorta works. (*or hex-kini, if we want to be playful and ignore the actual etymology)

For what it's worth, I don't think your answer was simple at all - it was sufficiently complex enough for me to struggle following it, which is why I guess I ended up laying out my own long-winded post without quite realizing I was repeating your points. Sorry about that Bill, it certainly wasn't my intention. :S

Gonna jump on the train of reasoning of @Qizilbashwoman above. The French social theorist Emil Durkheim phrased religion and religious rituals as something along the lines of "the community celebrating itself." He saw the manifestation of beliefs in culture heroes, patron deities and so forth, and the celebration of these, as a manifestation of the community's fondness of its continued existence, the fondnenss of its individual members of each others (even if only an abstract sense), and effectively a mechanism through which this fondness and investment was created anew. (He put it in very much a more complex and well-reasoned way, but please bear with me). In Glorantha, with Wyters and other patron entities, this proposition has essentially become objective reality as far as Gloranthans and its players are concerned. The Wyter acts as both the focal point of this expression of self-celebration for the community, as well as the primary mechanism by which this communal mutual goodwill is actualized. What this means, however, is that if that the wyter is taken out of the equation (dead, incapacitated, or otherwise rendered inaccesible or irrelevant), you also lose this focal point. This shouldn't mean, in my opinion - and unless there is some very gameified mechanic that just makes it so through magic - that the community suddenly loses its communal, mutual goodwill and cohesion, but in more prosaic terms, it rather loses the mechanism by which all these were expressed. As time passes, there is no longer any reason to gather sacrifices for wyter rituals, there is no longer an occasion to call on the wyter to help out in dire times. The intense interconnectedness of the community slowly becomes looser and looser, and less and less relevant... at some point members might feel like migrating away, or seeking association with other communities that have functional wyters. It reminds me of something that happened in my family many years ago: back in the day, the oldest surviving grandparents used to invite all their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, and their great-nephews and -nieces for a grand family gathering. It was very fun, and as a kid, this was the only time a year I would meet some of my more distant cousins, and play with them or catch up. Then, after these grandparents passed away, there was a break in the family gatherings due to grief and loss. A half-hearted attempt to continue the gatherings followed a few years later, but it never really took off. The main focal point of the gatherings were gone, and it just didn't quite feel the same, nor did it feel as much as an obligation to turn up. It all petered out. Some were possibly put off by it due to associating the whole deal with the loss of their relatives. This is how I imagine the less of a wyter could feel like. The lack of protection against hostile spirits is of course a major part in this as well, but is a bit more straightforward than the social causes I've tried to outline above.

One can only hope, it's the piece of media that made me look at Glorantha further.