Sumath

There's usually some news coming out of The Kraken convention each year, so hopefully one of the attendees will post any news or indications of when stuff will be released. Anybody going to that this weekend?

Neoteny would raise the potential for a young dark troll, somehow separated from their protectors (perhaps a troll caravan?), and discovered by humans who mistake it for a trollkin. I'm thinking of a similar scenario to the novel Gentleman of the Road by Michael Chabon, where a youth from foreign lands begs to be returned but lacks the language skills to explain their plight. Being the son/daughter of someone important would add the prospect of reward for their safe escort back to their tribe.

I suspect this will be a YGWV answer, as I'm not aware of any images of immature dark trolls, but does anyone know if they look (facially) similar to mature trollkin? I'm sure they are stockier, and easily distinguishable from trollkin by other trolls, but not necessarily by humans.

The trollkin in the bestiary have flatter faces (rather like how young chimpanzees have much flatter faces than adults), and I'm thinking this is probably also true for young trolls, and that their elongated jaws develop as they mature. 

The Chaosium blog has news today of 'Highwall Inn', a free Ian Cooper HQ scenario set in a snow storm on the road to Alda-Chur, in which a group of strangers are pursued by ghouls and have to hole up in an inn to survive the storm.

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

although D&D still uses D12s

I have to say, I like D12s.

In terms of number generation they may not be that useful, but aesthetically they are my favourite die. There's just something iconic about a dodecahedron, more so than an icosahedron in my opinion.

I think that if you can't parry a knockback then you should be able to dodge it. Or vice versa.

Otherwise what does the knockback attempt consist of? A physical assault that cannot be avoided or blocked would be a strange thing. If someone attempts to push you they may not be successful (that's the knockback mechanism), but avoiding their attempt in the first place is where the dodge or parry comes in.

Thanks for your input, Bill, much appreciated.

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

As per multiple activities in a melee round on page 196 of RQ RiG

No, my post is correct on this - it is p.195, not 196.

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Parries, I believe can only happen on SRs that a parrying weapon in ready, dodge may be limited to SRs one is on one’s feet

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

and that there are sufficient SRs to fulfill the two strikes without exceeding 12 SRs

Yes, agreed. The object of the post was to list things for consideration, it's not intended to be an exhaustive list.

7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

There is no such rule in RQG, I think Jason has clarified this.

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

All weapons both one handed and two handed can be used to attack and parry (parry possible multiple times) in a single MR.

Cool, thanks both. That was the main thing on here that I wanted clarification on.

7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

There is no such rule in RQG, I think Jason has clarified this.

Thanks for confirming.

14 minutes ago, Psullie said:

Great list Sumath, can you provide a reference for No 10. I can't locate where is prohibits using the same weapon to attack and parry,

There's not much evidence for this in RQG, but I'm sure I remember it from previous RQ editions, and it is implied by p.219, Shield Attacks, which says 'It is possible to attack with a shield, giving up the chance of parrying that round'. Similarly, it would make sense that one can parry with a weapon if you give up an attack that round. 

This is something I'd appreciate some thoughts on, as it's something I have in my head, but can't find precise evidence for it.

20 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

not seeing SIZ...

The total weapon SR in parenthesis on each character's description at the beginning includes SIZ and weapon strike ranks.

But as most of the first few rounds are missile and spell casting, there's lots of stuff happening on DEX SRs. It's not until Chadestra uses her spear that we get a melee attack that includes SIZ SR.

There's lots of stuff I didn't include in this combat example (e.g. augments, spirit combat, dodging, etc) so maybe I'll do another example in future with more melee.

I've now uploaded v3.0.0. of the combat example. Hopefully all should be okay now.

Following the example combat write-up and feedback received, I’ve drawn up a summary of things to consider when running, or participating in, RQG combat. Some of these are directly from RAW (but mainly sprinkled throughout the Combat chapter), others are interpretations, so critiques are welcome. Thanks to everyone who’s chipped in so far.

Generally, there are quite a lot of specific rules governing strike ranks, hence the number of points below (although it’s far from exhaustive), but I’ve tried to arrange them in a logical order and cite rules location where applicable.

1.     Changes to Statement of Intent no longer seem to affect SRs in RAW, but you may wish to house rule otherwise.

2.     Unengaged combatants can move up to their full movement prior to SR resolution, unless Statements of Intent indicate they will be subject to missile fire or spell casting in that round, in which case their movement should be handled in SR order (p.192 Movement of Non-engaged Characters).

3.     In a single melee round an engaged combatant can either attack and parry/dodge, OR parry and cast magic (p.195 Multiple Activities within Melee).

4.     Parrying and dodging are non-SR actions (they take no SRs), that can happen at any time in a melee round. Multiple parries or dodges may be made, but each successive parry or dodge after the first in a round receives a cumulative -20% penalty (p.197 The Parry, p.201 Dodge).

5.     Attacking and spell casting are SR actions (they always require at least one SR to perform).

6.     Use of other skills (e.g. Perception or Communication skills) during combat might be SR actions or non-SR actions at the GM’s discretion (an interpretation).

7.     A combatant cannot start taking SR actions before their DEX SR (an interpretation).

8.     But with the following exception: Rune magic takes effect on SR 1, unless magic points are used to boost or alter it, in which case SRs equal to MPs -1 are added (p.194, Magical Attacks and Strike Ranks).

9.     A combatant cannot attack more than once in a round unless they fulfil one of the following criteria:

a.     They are using a missile weapon and have sufficiently low DEX SR (p.195, Multiple Activities Outside of Melee, p.211, Rates of Fire).

b.     Their weapon skill is above 100% and they split their attack (p.202, Splitting Attacks).

c.     They are dual wielding and parry with neither weapon, but ‘off hand’ attack chance applies (p.224, Two Weapon Use).

10.  Only two-handed weapons can be used to both attack and parry in a single round. One-handed weapons (including shields) can be used to either attack or parry during a round, not both.

11.  Spell casting success rolls – there are two schools of thought on this: roll on the SR that spell casting begins or on the SR that the spell takes effect. The issue with the second method is when long spell casting periods are involved (e.g. for boosted spells, Sorcery spells or high-powered Spirit magic) that run over a round or more. If the spell roll fails then the player has just sat doing nothing for a round or more with no end result. Rolling on the initial SR when spell casting begins confirms whether the spell will be successful and, if not, the player can abandon it and have their character do something else (an interpretation).

12.  Any spell can still fail if the caster takes damage during the casting – an INT roll (as determined by the GM) should be made to see if concentration is maintained (p.247, Types of Spells - see Active Spell and Passive Spell). No MPs are lost if the spell fails.

13.  For Spirit Magic, combatants should be able to perceive or feel their spell foci to cast the spell. Casting without a focus takes two melee rounds (p.254, The Focus).

14.  Apart from spell casting, SRs reset between rounds, but loaded/unloaded status of missile weapons needs to be tracked and allowed for.

15.  If a combatant makes a second attempt at something after failing (e.g. casting a spell, withdrawing an impaled weapon) then they must wait 5 SRs + their DEX SR (an interpretation).

16.  Sheathing a weapon, drawing a weapon, reloading a missile weapon, or picking a weapon up – all these actions add 5 SRs each (p.194, Preparing or Changing a Weapon).

17.  Dropping a weapon or placing an already drawn weapon into another hand (e.g. to free a hand for spell casting) presumably take 0 SRs, so can take place at any time in the round (an interpretation, based upon p.194 Preparing or Changing a Weapon).

18.  Some SR actions can be combined with movement e.g. drawing a weapon (p.195 Multiple Activities Outside of Melee).

19.  If a combatant is evading missile fire, they cannot move more than half their movement (p.214, Shooting at Moving Targets).

20.  Ambushing or surprising an opponent adds either 1 or 3 SRs to their actions (p.193, Strike Rank Modifiers table), but the ambusher may also get +40% to their attack that round as their opponent is ‘unaware’ (p.223, Attacking from Advantage or Disadvantage).

Yeah, maybe if you pushed them with it rather than swung it.

I'd say that a knockback is essentially just attacking with the flat of the weapon, although that's not entirely accurate (e.g. crushing weapons perhaps use the haft). Therefore it should be possible to parry or dodge a knockback, and the weapon should be potentially subject to damage. 

I am planning to post a summary of the learnings from the combat example write-up this evening.

25 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

If I need to draw my sword and attack, would you figure the DEX SR first, then 5 SR to draw the sword? Do I add in my DEX SR again to attack, or would you consider the drawing of the sword and attacking to be a single compound action and that it doesn't really matter whether the DEX SR is the first two or somewhere in the middle?

For drawing a sword and attacking, I'd say you start drawing on your DEX SR, and complete the draw 5 SRs later, so can attack straight away then. I'm thinking that DEX SRs only get applied a second time in the event of a second success roll happening during a round (e.g. in the case of two missile weapon attacks: fire on DEX SR, reload for 5 SRs, then fire again after DEX SR).

25 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don't think that the rules-as-written really back up the "no actions before DEX SR", although it's a reasonable extrapolation. Specifically I don't think it affects parries or dodges. If someone's melee SR is somehow below my DEX SR, that doesn't mean that I am entirely defenseless against that foe. Any artifacts of the 12-second melee round should be "well, I guess that's not too bad" rather than "ok, the rules are killing me".

I'd say DEX SR only affects 'SR actions'. As parries and dodges take up no SRs they would be unaffected, so can happen at any time in the round. But equally, this would be the same for dropping a weapon (0 SRs) I suppose, but not to drawing one (5 SRs). In game terms, DEX SR is controlling who has initiative in the round, so it seems fair that anyone taking additional actions (like drawing a weapon) delays their attack/spell etc.

Estavos could have attacked Angtyr with his spear on SR 11, since he hadn't attacked that round.

11 hours ago, Cloud64 said:

nor it’s antonym, the dog’s bollocks.

Also the mutt's nuts, or just 'The bollocks'

11 hours ago, lordabdul said:

SRs are reset but she still starts the round with an unloaded sling -- so I think she would need an extra 5 SRs to reload. I wouldn't make reloads "free" between rounds.

That's a good point, I'll amend that also so she just drops her sling and picks up her spear - she missed anyway, and it won't make any difference to her subsequent SR timings.

11 hours ago, lordabdul said:

For instance in Round 4, Estavos drops his bow, readies his short spear, and moves -- there's no attack. So I think the spear should be ready on SR 5 (no DEX SR modifier included, just a flat +5 SR), and the move be done on SR 7 (by the way, I think it takes SR +2 for Estavos to move 5 meters?

I'm not sure someone can take a physical action, even if it's just dropping a weapon, before their DEX SR, as this represents how quickly they can act. So for me - unless you're using Rune magic, which is divine and happens on SR 1 - a character's melee round actions begin on their DEX SR, at a minimum. In Estavos' case, his DEX SR is 2, +0 to drop his bow, and +5 to pick up his spear, taking him to SR 7. He then moves 5m (+2 SRs), so is behind Angtyr on SR 9.

Thanks for your feedback, @lordabdul

13 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

As such, the Greydogs couldn't possibly have planned to cast healing magic or whatever this turn... or maybe they did?

No, they wouldn't have, but their SoI was pretty vague anyway. Their SoI just said they were waiting to assist Greydogs (so this could have included themselves!)

As RQG doesn't penalise SoI changes, I decided not to sweat it too much.

15 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

ambushing somebody effectively only gives a penalty of +1 or +3 SR for "Surprise", and that feels not very, err, penalizing

RQG actually only gives an ambush SR bonus if you're within 9m of your enemy, so strictly speaking I shouldn't apply anything by RAW, but I figured that missile fire deserved something. This is prime house ruling territory, I reckon.  What I could have done is granted the attackers a +40% to hit bonus as the Greydogs were unaware ('Attacking from Advantage or Disadvantage' p.223).

20 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I would rule that Bodran can drop his sword to cast magic, and then pick it back up for +5 SR after the spell was cast. I would allow holding the weapon with the shield hand temporarily,

Funnily enough, I've amended version 2.0.0 to just this.

21 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Oh I actually see that he rolls on SR 9 and the spell takes effect on SR 11... why the distinction? I can't find anything about that in the rules. I would just roll and take effect on SR 11

As per my reply to @Brootse above on this, rolling at the end of spell casting becomes problematic when you start doing long castings (e.g. Sorcery that takes two melee rounds) and only find out at the end whether you've wasted your time or not. If you fail your casting roll on the SR you begin, then you can abandon it and still do something else in the rest of the round - for me, rolling on the initial SR makes combat more versatile and interesting for players.

24 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I like the idea of asking players ahead of time where their foci for their various spells is

See my comments further up this thread. I think foci location should be recorded on character sheets, as it is tactically important.

26 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

On Round 2, I don't think Chadestra can use her sling on SR 3... she threw a stone last round on SR 11, so she has to reload the sling before firing, so that would be resolved on SR 8?

Between rounds SRs are reset. The only exception to this (AFAIK) is spell casting that takes more than one round  e.g. Sorcery.

32 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Why does Drogarsi cast Bladesharp only on SR 12? Shouldn't it be SR 5+3+1=9? (+5 for switching weapons, +3 for DEX, +1 for additional magic points)

You're absolutely right, because he is only casting magic once this round, he should start casting on SR 8 with it taking effect on SR 9 - I'll amend that. 

34 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

If I'm right, that would change a bunch of other rounds where there was also, IMO, double-dipping of DEX SR modifiers for picking up weapons/shields/etc

DEX SR gets applied a second time in the round when you attempt a second action (e.g. firing a bow twice).

35 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Any reason Bodran can re-attempt to remove the arrow only on SR 11? Doing multiple actions is usually a +5 SR affair, so why not on SR 8?

He fails on his DEX SR 3, so then waits 5 SRs plus his DEX SR to try again, same as if he were attempting cast a spell or fire a bow a second time. 

Okay, I've just updated the file with the amendments below.

I've added a little bit of explanatory detail around SR calculations just to make things obvious.

I've also changed two of Bodran's actions and one of Angtyr's:

Round 1, SR 4 - I've amended Bodran's strike rank actions so he now drops his sword and changes to spell casting, and I've added a note about there being no apparent penalties for changing Statement of Intent in RQG.

Round 2, SR 3 - Bodran's second spell attempt corrected to include his DEX SR, which has a consequence (see below)

Round 2, SR 4 - After moving, Angtyr now moves his sword to his shield hand to cast Protection instead of sheathing it, but still spends 5 SRs switching to spell casting.

Round 2, SR 11 - Bodran now gets impaled by the arrow before his spell would take effect, so it fails.

Round 4, SR 1 - Bodran therefore commits two extra magic points to his Heal Wound spell, so it goes off slightly later in the round. SR calculation also corrected for Rune spell with magic points.

2 minutes ago, trystero said:

Round 4:

Per the rule on p. 314 of the rulebook, "Rune magic spells always take effect at strike rank 1." I don't see any rule which suggests that using MP as part of a Rune spell casting affects the SR, so I believe Bodran's Heal Wound spell should take effect on SR 1, not SR 7.

I'm also in the camp of "make the roll for the spell when you've completed its casting time, rather than when you start it."

P.194, 'Magical Attacks and Strike Ranks' - "If more than one magic point is used to boost a Rune magic spell or otherwise increase its effects, 1 strike rank is added for each additional magic point after the first".

I need to amend the example though as I've currently got the spell going off on SR 7 but it should be SR 6.

9 hours ago, Brootse said:

I've always made the characters roll for success only at the end, so if they lose concentration they haven't rolled the casting roll yet. And I've also ruled that the mps are also only used at the end.

Interesting. The problem I can see with this would be Sorcery spells. A character might take two rounds to cast a spell and then at the end they fail the casting roll, so they've then wasted two rounds. I'd find that incredibly frustrating as a player, and Sorcery is frustrating enough already.

Whereas if they make the roll on the SR they start the spell, and fail, then they can always try again later in the round, move or do something else. From an action management viewpoint it seems more useful to make the success roll up front.

it also feels as if committing the strike ranks should equal committing the magic points, although I don't feel particularly strongly about that.

Okay, here's a question I'd like people's opinions on.

If someone casts a passive spell, say Protection 3, and they succeed in the casting roll (i.e. POWx5), but then take damage between the SR they begin casting (e.g. SR 3) and the one it takes effect on (SR 5), what happens? An INT roll of some kind, but what if that fails?

They would lose the spell because even though it's passive the caster still needs to concentrate upon it until it takes effect.

But would they also lose the magic points since they have succeeded in the original casting roll and committed the MPs?